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Trisc
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Re: 802.11n

Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:19 pm

For months I have tried to get laptops with wireless N cards to associate to Mikrotik router using 802.11n - but it seems only possible to connect using b/g.

I have tried endless configurations without success. Is Mikrotik 802.11n only designed to connect to other MTs? I can see no other threads other than people discussing point to point links.

What if we want to use MT exclusively for campus and building APs? Fine if we stick with b/g but otherwise we will have to go with UBNT or Ruckus kit for wireless N clients.

Has anyone managed to solve this? Please post configs!
 
KillerOPS
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Re: 802.11n

Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:53 pm

just make sure you didn't enable nv2 or nstreme.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:19 am

For months I have tried to get laptops with wireless N cards to associate to Mikrotik router using 802.11n - but it seems only possible to connect using b/g.

I have tried endless configurations without success. Is Mikrotik 802.11n only designed to connect to other MTs? I can see no other threads other than people discussing point to point links.

What if we want to use MT exclusively for campus and building APs? Fine if we stick with b/g but otherwise we will have to go with UBNT or Ruckus kit for wireless N clients.

Has anyone managed to solve this? Please post configs!

Have you enabled the extension channel?

I would also be setting manual rates and disabling all the B and G channels so only the HT-MCS rates are allowable to run, then see if they can connect.

I've not played with any 2.4ghz N gear as its just too noisy where I live.
Air-Stream Community Wireless Network - Adelaide, Australia
[RB711A - 3KM - 11.7MB/s TCP throughput]
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Trisc
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:41 am

No I didn't enable NV2 - it wasn't available until recently anyway and certainly not using Nstreme.

I have tried every combination of extension channels, HT-MCS settings but I cannot get PC or Mac wireless clients to connect on N only.

If this won't work we will abandon MT for future hotspot deployments.
 
ste
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:45 am

No I didn't enable NV2 - it wasn't available until recently anyway and certainly not using Nstreme.

I have tried every combination of extension channels, HT-MCS settings but I cannot get PC or Mac wireless clients to connect on N only.

If this won't work we will abandon MT for future hotspot deployments.
I've a centrino lap. It scales up to 11n rates for downloads but stays at 11a Rates (54Max) up.
Seems there are some incompatibilities.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:08 pm

If I'm not mistaken on some centrino laptops that is the max TX rate. They only use N for RX. Why i don't know... :(
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:29 pm

I've a centrino lap. It scales up to 11n rates for downloads but stays at 11a Rates (54Max) up.
Seems there are some incompatibilities.
And how long has N been available on Mikrotik? Seems like other manufacturers can get it right. Why not MT?
 
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Re: 802.11n

Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:21 am

We are working on a Point to Multipoint project with R52nh cards and have been having trouble getting 802.11n to work. 802.11a works great, even with 5Mhz channels. Would would like to try N to see if there is an improvement in range and/or speed, but have had trouble configuring (we have used 4.13, 4.11 and 4.9, with the same result)

We have also had issues getting nstreme or NV2 (on 4.13) working on either 802.11a or n. Any pointers we can use to help us out?
 
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Dec 20, 2010 4:14 pm

Trisc - I'm not far from you at the moment - if you wish to, could you contact me direct? See below. Might be able to help?
Ron Touw - Mikrotik Certified Trainer
LinITX.com - MultiThread Consultants
Get your MikroTik RBs and Training: http://linitx.com/category/166
Largest Official UK MikroTik Distributor
IRC channel: #routerboard on irc.z.je (IPv4), 6.irc.z.je (IPv6)
 
Matess
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Re: 802.11n

Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:01 pm

- Each outdoor box has only one RB433AH, one R52n and 2 pigtails. At first I put the test board together with another RB433AH in the same box and the RF interferences caused the link to work perfectly only on tx side: the rx side was interferred by the other miniPCI radio even though their working frequencies were spaced by 400MHz!
I used RouterBoard 433ah r52n 2 wireless cards for this test.One wireless card I made as AP and and the second one as a client(without minipigtails and antennas) and the signal strengh was -56 db. I wrapped the wifi card with a layer of antistatic film, another layer of aluminum foil and the last layer of an antistatic film again. Then I checked the signal and I got to -72 db

This really helped.

I´ve also tested this on cards i use on normal links (wnc cm9) and nothing happened. Signal was always the same - around -71dB
 
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Re: 802.11n

Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:56 pm

I've considered doing this as well. Could you post photos of the setup.
 
chadd
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Re: 802.11n

Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:36 pm

- Each outdoor box has only one RB433AH, one R52n and 2 pigtails. At first I put the test board together with another RB433AH in the same box and the RF interferences caused the link to work perfectly only on tx side: the rx side was interferred by the other miniPCI radio even though their working frequencies were spaced by 400MHz!
I used RouterBoard 433ah r52n 2 wireless cards for this test.One wireless card I made as AP and and the second one as a client(without minipigtails and antennas) and the signal strengh was -56 db. I wrapped the wifi card with a layer of antistatic film, another layer of aluminum foil and the last layer of an antistatic film again. Then I checked the signal and I got to -72 db

This really helped.

I´ve also tested this on cards i use on normal links (wnc cm9) and nothing happened. Signal was always the same - around -71dB
It seems like you could have some heat related issues with the cards wrapped up like that. Is this something you have ran in production?
 
Matess
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Re: 802.11n

Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:23 pm

dont know exactly how long i am using it, but at "Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:39 pm" i´ve written a post here with a few problems in 802.11n, so it has to be only few days after that. So lets wait for Summer :)

I do not have much of these cards.... maybe 20, but so far they are working just fine....

I just taked a photo of that.... sorry for the poor quality... cellphone photo...
http://img573.imageshack.us/img573/3596/19022011097.jpg
 
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t3rm
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:58 am

Capture of RB SXT-5D in action.

224Mbps reached, but too bad this is in UDP test :p
TCP, still testing, which one gone bad, my laptop ethernet or SXT ethernet.
Cause i only able to transfer 60Mbps full duplex
Screenshot-3.png
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Beccara
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:33 am

And just how long was that linke? -55 signal so what, 100m max?
 
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:45 am

t3rm,
any possibility of posting your configs here?
I have a R52n link setup here:
http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php ... 85#p250885
But struggle to get to these speeds.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:52 am

And just how long was that linke? -55 signal so what, 100m max?
I have a 25 mile link that's supposed to be -55. ;-)
-----
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:32 pm

please post config SXT 5Hnd ! Cant get them worked more than 135Mbps ... connected !
upgraded to 5.0rc10 but no result !
I wonder how to get 270Mbps and at least aprox 100Mbps duplex at least on the table.

one side
[admin@MikroTik] > interface wireless print
Flags: X - disabled, R - running
0 R name="wlan1" mtu=1500 mac-address=00:0C:42:84:66:1B arp=enabled
interface-type=Atheros 11N mode=station-bridge ssid="MikroTik"
frequency=5240 band=5ghz-a/n channel-width=20mhz scan-list=default
wireless-protocol=nv2 wds-mode=disabled wds-default-bridge=none
wds-ignore-ssid=no bridge-mode=enabled default-authentication=yes
default-forwarding=yes default-ap-tx-limit=0 default-client-tx-limit=0
hide-ssid=no security-profile=default compression=no
other side
[admin@MikroTik] > interface wireless print
Flags: X - disabled, R - running
0 R name="wlan1" mtu=1500 mac-address=00:0C:42:84:46:99 arp=enabled
interface-type=Atheros 11N mode=bridge ssid="MikroTik" frequency=5240
band=5ghz-a/n channel-width=20mhz scan-list=default wireless-protocol=nv2
wds-mode=disabled wds-default-bridge=none wds-ignore-ssid=no
bridge-mode=enabled default-authentication=yes default-forwarding=yes
default-ap-tx-limit=0 default-client-tx-limit=0 hide-ssid=no
security-profile=default compression=no
nv2_135.jpg
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:33 pm

Hello,

I have this configuration:

2x RB411 + R52n-M
1x RB433 + 2x R52n-M
4x GRID 5GHz 27dB

RB411 client ->((( ~14km )))->[5640MHz] AP RB433 [5540MHz]<-((( ~15km )))<- RB411 client
Mode is 5GHz-only-N (MCS 0 - 6)
Signal ~ -70

When I try TX bw test from ap to both of clients it works fine, but when I try RX to clients it goes up to 1 Mbps and link drops...

Does anyone have any idea what could it be?
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:13 pm

ottoshr, in order to get to 270mbps data-rate you need to use both chains on the SXT device (check if you have enabled them for TX and RX), and you need to enable the ht-extension-channel support.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:26 am

m4rk0, what software did you use to make those link drawings?
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
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Re: 802.11n

Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:36 am

m4rk0, what software did you use to make those link drawings?
Hello, we use this website for profiling http://www.alphimax.com/

Do You have any idea about my problem?
http://www.mreza-wisp.ba/
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:38 pm

Hello @ all.

We are a small wisp in Germany. Im reading for a long time here in the forum. We have problems with N, too. The same Problem as chvdr.

Our Equipment at both Sites:

RB433AH + R52N + 2*30dBi Mars Antennas Flat Pannel (No DUAL!!) but in Dual-Polarisation (1 * hor + 1 * ver).

The 2 Antennas (H + V on both Sites) are mounted in a distance of 1 meter. The Distance of the 2 Points (AP and Client) are 11 Km.

The Line is TOP.


Thanks for help.....

joban

well you have the dual 29dbi for some time now
anyway what's of interest for me is a case study for use of MARS antennas with MK boards
what's the distance/ throughput that you where able to get
Boris Bachman
Director Business Development at
MARS Antennas and RF Systems


skype: lucianfr1309
 
Matess
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Re: 802.11n

Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:20 pm

Hi again,
I have 2 SXTs on 240m, no obstacels.

tx power set to all rates fixed - 0

frequency 5765
ht channel below control on both sides

route attenuation - 95dB
antena gain 16dBi
wifi card power 0dBm

so 0+16-95+16 gives mi signal strengh about -63dBm

so why i have these?
Ch0 -78/-87dBm
Ch1 -87/-87dBm

If i set tx-power to all rates fixed = 10

10+16-95+16 gives mi signal strengh about -53dBm

then i have
Ch0 -64/-66dBm
Ch1 -66/-67dBm

so 10dB on a power gives me this differences:
Ch0 14/21
Ch1 21/20

how is this possible?
ROS 5.0rc11

What is difference between SXT 5HnD and SXT-5D?
Image
 
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normis
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Re: 802.11n

Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:22 pm

no difference, internal numbering was upgraded.
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Matess
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Re: 802.11n

Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:46 pm

and can you tell me why 10 more dB in wireless card gives me 20 more on signal?

If you want i can give you access to them.
 
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normis
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:55 pm

signal level in RouterOS is not a very exact number. if you increase power by one unit, it will not increase signal by one unit. It doesn't work that way.
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
ekkas
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:27 pm

Hi Normis,
relating to questions/issues mentioned in this thread and others regarding N...
Are you guys aware of issues and working on it, or do you believe MT N support (+for legacy devices) is working 100%

Just like to know if we can expect changes/improvements or is this as good as it gets?

Ekkas
 
Matess
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Re: 802.11n

Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:07 pm

i just dont get it. It seems that sxts has a really bad wireless cards.
I´ve measured EIRP and got this:

EIRP power measurment
RouterBoard SXT
Measurment on 2m with 17dBi antenna
1dB power loss on connector between antenna and sond
Sond: R&S measuring up to 6GHz
Power loss on 2m: 54dB

Image

note: Prijmaci signal = Signal level on sond.

That means, that sxt´s output power is ok, but recieved signals are really weird
 
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normis
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Re: 802.11n

Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:10 pm

how did you measure this?

what is "Signal level on sond."?
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uldis
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Re: 802.11n

Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:35 pm

please provide more detailed description how did you measure it and make some pictures from the setup and the configuration.
 
Matess
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Re: 802.11n

Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:15 pm

used RB SXT with ROS 5.0 rc11 - level 4, ap bridge, tx power - all rates fixed from -30 to 30
2 meters between the SXT and the antenna with known gain (54dB - environment attenuation)
antenna gain 17dB, 1dB power loss on connector between antenna and probe
probe: http://www2.rohde-schwarz.com/en/produc ... RPZ92.html


EIRP = antenna gain - cable loss + wireless card power
EIRP - environment attenuation + antenna gain (on sond) - cable loss = received signal
EIRP = cable loss + environment attenuation + received signal - antenna gain on sond
EU limit for EIRP is 30dBm, or 27dBm without DFS

for example - tx power +10
EIRP= 1dB + 54dB + (-8dB) - 17dB = 30dBm

So in other words...
if I set tx power to 10, i have 30dBm EIRP
environment attenuation = 32.4 + 20 x log frequency (MHz) + 20 x log range (km)
environment attenuation = 32.4 + 20 x log 5800 + 20 x log 0,23 = 32,4 + 75,27 -12,76
environment attenuation = 95dB

so it should be something like this
30dBm - 95dB + 16dB (other SXT antenna gain) = -49 dBm

but thats the problem....
ch0 60/62
ch1 58/60

~10dB is missing

If i set tx-power to 0
EIRP = 20dBm

so it should be something like this
20-95+16=59dBm

conlusion?
Image
 
uldis
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Re: 802.11n

Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:44 am

please note that for the receive signal values the noise floor levels also are taken into the account. And that is why maybe the rx signal is not so high.
 
Beccara
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Re: 802.11n

Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:25 am

Noise floors that change wildly between ROS point releases and even packages!

Is there a reason RX signal is adjusted by NF?
 
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normis
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Re: 802.11n

Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:42 pm

Matess you have made many mistakes in your tests:

1. signal level in RouterOS is not precise, and can't be used for exact measurements, it's meant as a guide only, to compare better and worse situations, when aligning antenna

2. you said you used a "17 dbi known antenna" without specifying the manufacturer, and whether it's a certified antenna to be used for testing. many regular and cheap brand manufacturers specify incorrect gain and other parameters, this is not to be trusted unless it's a certified antenna made specifically for testing.

3. to be able to get any kind of accurate reading, the SXT should be fully transmitting 100% of the time at maximum possible duty cycle. otherwise, measurement is inaccurate
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Matess
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Re: 802.11n

Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:40 pm

It was measured in the college laboratory - University of Technology Brno Czech Rep.
They have much more better equipment, then i have.

And as you see... tx power regulation is good. But thats all....

please note that for the receive signal values the noise floor levels also are taken into the account. And that is why maybe the rx signal is not so high.
Yes, it would explain why after changing wifi cards for cards from Mikrotik signal deteriorates.

There are a few good cards for miniPCI express.

Are you planning some kind of a powerful little router with a miniPCI Express interface? RB800 is not very cheap. Something like 411AH should do the job.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Sun May 22, 2011 10:48 pm

Hello guys,

I have questions on what kind of antennas are you all using for your tests and what can I expect when matching 802.11n with various antenna options?
(hardware being 433AH and R52n radio card, 5Ghz band)

1) sector antenna single polarization
2) sector antenna dual polarization (tx/rx vs tx,rx / tx,rx chains)
3) MIMO antenna (single or dual polarization)
 
Matess
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Re: 802.11n

Mon May 23, 2011 10:43 am

I am using dual polarization jirous parabolic antenas
http://en.jirous.com/antenna-5ghz/jrc-24-duplex up to 2km
http://en.jirous.com/antenna-5ghz/jrc-29-duplex up to 4km

longer distances, or huge interference on offset antenas (110cm) with nn-12 duplex
http://antenna.cz/nn-12_DUPLEX/nn-12_DUPLEX.pdf (sorry only in czech)

offset antenas costs half price then jirous 29, but it is really hard to install them (antenna focusing)

i´ve tried to use ubnt dual polarization dish.... waste of time.
 
petro25
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Re: 802.11n

Tue May 31, 2011 8:36 am

Hello,

I have this configuration:

2x RB411 + R52n-M
1x RB433 + 2x R52n-M
4x GRID 5GHz 27dB

RB411 client ->((( ~14km )))->[5640MHz] AP RB433 [5540MHz]<-((( ~15km )))<- RB411 client
Mode is 5GHz-only-N (MCS 0 - 6)
Signal ~ -70

When I try TX bw test from ap to both of clients it works fine, but when I try RX to clients it goes up to 1 Mbps and link drops...

Does anyone have any idea what could it be?

You share the program in which considered profiles
 
cdga12
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Re: 802.11n

Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:42 pm

Thanks all for answer.

I think maybe using one chain can get little more bandwidth compare to 5Ghz turbo nstreme. Add one more antenna is little complicated need more space, stronger tower more cables is not option for now on that place. Also dual polarity antenna is usually solid parabolic antenna need stronger tower sometime time wind is very strong.
May be tested on some other place.

One more thanks to all.

Hi,

My name is carlos, i implemented a 80211n + MIMO 2x2 Wireless Network with diversity only, I used: RB 433AH, R52Hn, Routeos license 4.x, 60 mts. tower, in the Amazonic Jungle in Peru.

The results are 60 a 64 Mbps (data throughput)

A MIMO System, with STBC, Beamforming and Spatial Multiplexing are a very important solution for improve my network.

I am continue my research (PHD) about MIMO System.

I attach documents on round,
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