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zgi
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R52Hn strange readings

Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:29 pm

I've bought 2 R52Hn, and set a ~9km link, with LOS. The signal strength reading are weird and it's jumping a lot for about 10~20dB, or even more. (just look at the picture). Cards were never powerd ON without antenna attached.

Image
Image

CONFIG.:

2X433AH, R52n and R52Hn on one side, R52Hn on remote side.

1 R name="sinkovec-tv" mtu=1500 mac-address=XX:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX arp=enabled
interface-type=Atheros 11N mode=station ssid="WelKom HV" frequency=5640
band=5ghz-onlyn scan-list=default wds-mode=disabled
wds-default-bridge=none wds-ignore-ssid=no default-authentication=yes
default-forwarding=yes default-ap-tx-limit=0 default-client-tx-limit=0
hide-ssid=no security-profile=default compression=no



0 R name="tv-sinkovec" mtu=1500 mac-address=XX:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX arp=enabled
interface-type=Atheros 11N mode=bridge ssid="WelKom HV" frequency=5640
band=5ghz-onlyn scan-list=default wds-mode=disabled
wds-default-bridge=none wds-ignore-ssid=no default-authentication=yes
default-forwarding=yes default-ap-tx-limit=0 default-client-tx-limit=0
hide-ssid=no security-profile=default compression=no

On the side with good signal I have pannel with pigtail directly attached to antenna, on the side with bad signal strenght, i have pannel antenna with 1m coax cable, so I'll try to change that cable, but still, i don't think that there would be 20dB signal strenght jumps if it was a bad cable.

And another thing. This is my first three in a row mikrotik setup, so I got another problem. I allready have a working link on one AP with R52n and nstreme, but if I set nstreme on the other link, i get disconnections. Log says, lost connection, not polled for too long. And I wonder if nstreme could be ran on 2 interfaces at the same time on the same board?
 
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mishaM
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Sun Jul 11, 2010 3:11 pm

a what maximum thought of link bandwidth from a to c ?
 
zgi
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:49 am

about 9Mbit FDX
 
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colebert
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:23 pm

I have nearly a dozen of R5Hn cards that do this. I keep repeating that something is wrong with these cards. I have completely stopped using them. They all exhibit the same behavior you are reporting. One side of the link is 20db lower than the other and the CCQ is terrible.

Just get two Ubiquiti SR71 cards and keep using them until Mikrotik can produce a card that works reliably.
Amateurs built the Ark.
Professionals built the Titanic.
 
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normis
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:29 pm

Did any of you contact the MikroTik support with supout.rif files ?
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zgi
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:46 pm

Not yet. Will do it.
 
Kencomp
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:35 pm

Think there's a major problem either with the R52Hn's or Router OS 4.10

Setup a test link at 100M using 20db hor.pol antenaes, and Proxim Tsunami radios at 5735MHz. The proxims have an output of 16.5db at the connector. Signal strength is -46db without attempting to align the antenaes.

Replaced Proxims with RB411AHs with R52Hns, 1 set as Bridge, 1 set as client. Wireless mode set to 5GHz, Freq to 5735, UK regulatory domain and superchannel using ONLY chain0 and TXPower set to default. Received signal is -62.

Put back Proxims and retested, still at -46db. Put back Mikrotiks, still at -62.

Changed TXPower to Card Rate 16db limit at both ends, received signal went down to -82. Weird as suggests default TXPower must have been 36db rather than the max of 22db!!!!!!!!!!!!

Changed TXPower to Card Rate 22db limit (Should be same as default), received signal went back to -62. Hmmmm

Changed TXPower back to default, received signal went to -87. What the hell? Was -62 before.

Disabled wireless interface and re-enabled, received signal back to -62.
Repeated disable/enable several times and received signal randomly switches between -6x and -8x

Swapped R52hN cards at both ends, all exhibit this behaviour.

Interestingly, it is the RECEIVED signal that varies when you enable/disable the card, not the TX signal. This is true for whichever end of the link the tests are carried out on, hence my conclusion that either that cards are naff or there is bug in routeros.

Has anyone else experienced these effects and have a solution? Having no hair left to pull out, I've ordered some Ubiquiti SR71-5 cards to see if they do the same.
 
zgi
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:45 am

I've got mail from support and they say that this is normal.
Thank you very much for the report. It could be that such value is shown for
short period of time, when wireless card makes recalculations and you can
notice for a while wrong values.
@Kencomp

I'm thinking of buying SR71-5 too. Please post your results.
 
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:52 pm

Disagree that it's normal, no other make of radio I've ever used (Over 15 years experience) has ever behaved like this. Support replied "After a short time it will re-calculate", well sureley 72 hours would be long enough!!!!! Went home Friday night with it bad, it was still bad this morning. Disable/Enable interface a couple of times and it's ok now.

Anyway, when SR17-5s arrive will post results, at least that will eliminate the cards as the source of the issues.
 
aaa
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:31 pm

I have same signal strength readings. But link is stable and true output is close to 100mbit. I think it is some kind of AR9220 chipset bug. I never see this on AR5414
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zgi
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:05 am

Can you post your wireless settings, link distance and output power ?
 
aaa
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:09 am

Link distance is ~4km. TX power set to default.

[admin@xxx] /interface wireless> print advanced
Flags: X - disabled, R - running
0 R name="wlan1" mtu=1500 mac-address=00:0C:42:3A:D3:13 arp=enabled
disable-running-check=no interface-type=Atheros 11N
radio-name="000C423AD313" mode=station ssid="xxx" area=""
frequency-mode=superchannel country=latvia antenna-gain=0
frequency=5180 band=5ghz-onlyn scan-list=default,5320-5500
rate-set=default supported-rates-b="" supported-rates-a/g=""
basic-rates-b="" basic-rates-a/g="" max-station-count=2007
ack-timeout=300 tx-power-mode=default periodic-calibration=disabled
periodic-calibration-interval=8000 dfs-mode=none wds-mode=disabled
wds-default-bridge=none wds-default-cost=100 wds-cost-range=50-150
wds-ignore-ssid=no update-stats-interval=disabled
default-authentication=yes default-forwarding=yes default-ap-tx-limit=0
default-client-tx-limit=0 proprietary-extensions=post-2.9.25
wmm-support=disabled hide-ssid=no security-profile=default
disconnect-timeout=3s on-fail-retry-time=100ms preamble-mode=both
compression=no allow-sharedkey=no
station-bridge-clone-mac=00:00:00:00:00:00 ht-ampdu-priorities=0
ht-guard-interval=any ht-extension-channel=below-control
ht-supported-mcs=mcs-0,mcs-1,mcs-2,mcs-3,mcs-4,mcs-5,mcs-6,mcs-7,mcs-8,
mcs-9,mcs-10,mcs-11,mcs-12,mcs-13,mcs-14,mcs-15
ht-basic-mcs=mcs-0 ht-txchains=0,1 ht-rxchains=0,1 ht-amsdu-limit=8192
ht-amsdu-threshold=8192 hw-retries=8 frame-lifetime=0
adaptive-noise-immunity=none hw-fragmentation-threshold=disabled
hw-protection-mode=none hw-protection-threshold=0
 
aaa
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:15 am

[admin@xxx] /interface wireless> monitor w
status: connected-to-ess
band: 5ghz-11n
frequency: 5540MHz
tx-rate: "243.0Mbps-HT"
rx-rate: "243.0Mbps-HT"
ssid: "xxx"
bssid: 00:0C:42:3A:D3:0B
radio-name: "000C423AD30B"
signal-strength: -64dBm
tx-signal-strength: -63dBm
noise-floor: -116dBm
signal-to-noise: 52dB
tx-ccq: 95%
rx-ccq: 96%
p-throughput: 136840
overall-tx-ccq: 95%
authenticated-clients: 1
current-ack-timeout: 300
wds-link: no
nstreme: no
framing-mode: none
routeros-version: "4.3"
last-ip: 95.30.157.30
802.1x-port-enabled: yes
compression: no
wmm-enabled: yes
current-tx-powers: 6Mbps:18(18/21),9Mbps:18(18/21),12Mbps:18(18/21),
18Mbps:18(18/21),24Mbps:18(18/21),36Mbps:17(17/20),
48Mbps:16(16/19),54Mbps:13(13/16),HT20-0:16(16/19),
HT20-1:16(16/19),HT20-2:16(16/19),HT20-3:16(16/19),
HT20-4:16(16/19),HT20-5:16(16/19),HT20-6:15(15/18),
HT20-7:11(11/14),HT40-0:15(15/18),HT40-1:15(15/18),
HT40-2:15(15/18),HT40-3:15(15/18),HT40-4:15(15/18),
HT40-5:15(15/18),HT40-6:14(14/17),HT40-7:10(10/13)
notify-external-fdb: no
 
zgi
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:55 am

Tried with your setings, with no luck. I noticed, that at the one end, noise floor is -122dB, at the other end, sometimes its -109dB, sometimes -88dB, then I change a few channels and its -109dB back again for some time. We have another full operating link, at that location with UBNT Bullet M5 with no problems in signall loss or major CCQ drop.
 
aaa
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:17 pm

What antenna you use? Is it Chain 0 antenna work in vertical polarization and Chain 1 antenna in horizontal polarization? Do you use RouterOS spectrum analyzer to find clear frequency? I test 23dBi panels on 10km distance with bad success.
 
Kencomp
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:03 pm

Until I get some different network cards, I've given this up as a bad job. Despite the wild 20-30db fluctuation on received signal strength, there's just too many factors to solve this problem.

FACT - using a Proxim 16.5db radio we get a received signal strength of -40
using a Mikrotik RB411AH with R52HN radio with an alleged output of 22db we get a received signal strength of -49
nothing has changed between the 2 setups other than the radios

CONCLUSION - Either the R52hNs have an actual output of 7.5db, the cards misreport the signal strength or ROUTEROS
doesn't work properly with R52hNs. Personally think it's a card problem hence the abandonment until I get
some SR71-15s to test with (Lead time 4-6 weeks so not a quick solution)
 
zgi
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:14 am

@aaa

One antenna Chain 0 (both RX and TX), on one side 23dB pannel on the other side 24dB pannel, both horizontal polarizaton on 5640MHz. Have measured link length again on Google earth and it sais 7km.


5540MHz is my A to B link freq. So it's enough free freq. space between these two links.
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Kencomp
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:06 am

@zgi

Your onto a losing battle, Mikrotik support have now confirmed that the noise level/received signal strength is not reported correctly. They still don't know the exact cause but thinks it's a problem with the Atheros Chipset Drivers. Don't think therefore it's anything to do with your setup but the same bug we have been struggling with
 
charliebrown
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:12 pm

Can anyone from MT confirm this? Kinda bad if they are reporting odd signals, Is it just R52Hn's?
 
aaa
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:27 pm

You mean use only one Chain and one antenna on each side? Do you disable other chain on ht control panel? Try change both sides to vertical polarization. Else use spectral scan not frequency usage. Spectral scan recognize any signal like single carrier, FSK modulation. Frequency usage just 802.11a/n
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Kencomp
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:31 pm

***
 
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normis
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:35 pm

I have removed your posted email, because it was incorrect, Uldis will reply to you again
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zgi
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:11 pm

Huh. It seems that in my area is full of interference at 5GHz band.

Yes, I have enabled only chain 0, will try to change polarisation.
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normis
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:13 pm

your 5540MHz is obviously a bad choice. Try 5376 instead.
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zgi
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:59 pm

Changed to 5375MHz, and signal readings are better now, but CCQ is still bad, I beleve that is because of interference. Will try to change polarisation tomorow.
 
Kencomp
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:54 pm

@zgi,

Don't think that you can rely on your spectral-scan, I ran one and the results varied massively, just like the reported signal strength/noise levels are doing with the cards. Sitting right next to an AP on 5575 gave results from -22db to -87db within the 5560-5590 bands, even though the AP was doing a UDP bandwidth send test so had constant output.

However, the good news!!! I managed to obtain a couple of SR71-15s, at huge cost but we were desperate!! These cards do NOT suffer the intermittency on reported signal strength, and moreover, the received signal strength is between 10 and 20db better than the lowest the R52Hns reported in their chaotic reports.

They also use the Atheros N chipset so don't think it's ROUTEROS or the card driver that's at fault, have to conclude that the R52Hn cards are simply flawed.
 
zgi
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:37 am

Thank you for the report!

Have scaned with spectral scaner on routeros yesterday and allso gave me difrent results at diffrent times. Allso scaned with ubnt nanobridge and it gave me diffrent ressults than r52Hn's (free freq. space), tried other frequencies, and so far i've just got disconections every second or two bad ccq and bad signal stregnth, so my link is getting worse.

I was allready to give up on mikrotik as my backhaul, but your saing is keeping me to use routerboard and the sr71-15 cards.
So far my dealler haven't got these cards, so I'll have to wait a week, two or three to get a couple of sr71-15's.

I'm still sceptic to use routerboards for my backhaul, because if i buy ubnt nanobridge, it's less expensive than routerboards, cards and enclousare, but it's working "out of the box". Will try to convince my colleagues to buy sr71-15 rather than nanobridge's.
 
slipstream1
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:20 am

I have deployed a 3 sector AP site with these cards and I am seeing massive fluctuations in latency and signal levels. Also, with stations reporting -60 receive and transmit levels, the CCQ's are in the single digit area. One other thing, in an area where I know the noise level to be in the low to mid -90's, I am seeing noise levels at the -110 through -117 level. Something is wrong with the R5Hn card or RouterOS' handling of the card. Shame.
 
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:35 pm

i have installed R52Hn for twice but a have stranger data rate when i saw datarate on registration table, the datarate always show 6Mbps/6Mbps, it's never more than 6Mbps, but it will change when we test bandwidth, it's normaly? or any one have a good setup for R52N ?

Signal streng 75
tx power default
distance : 10Km
 
phendry
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:42 pm

@zgi

Your onto a losing battle, Mikrotik support have now confirmed that the noise level/received signal strength is not reported correctly. They still don't know the exact cause but thinks it's a problem with the Atheros Chipset Drivers. Don't think therefore it's anything to do with your setup but the same bug we have been struggling with
Did you get any further updates on this? We have replaced a few XR5's with these and have nothing but trouble when we try and put new customers on. Can take a few minutes before a client will associate, scans are all over the place and making any changes often requires a re-scan before anyone will re-associate. All clients are R52's or R52n's.
 
dainen
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:52 am

@zgi

Your onto a losing battle, Mikrotik support have now confirmed that the noise level/received signal strength is not reported correctly. They still don't know the exact cause but thinks it's a problem with the Atheros Chipset Drivers. Don't think therefore it's anything to do with your setup but the same bug we have been struggling with
Did you get any further updates on this? We have replaced a few XR5's with these and have nothing but trouble when we try and put new customers on. Can take a few minutes before a client will associate, scans are all over the place and making any changes often requires a re-scan before anyone will re-associate. All clients are R52's or R52n's.

We have had the same problem as you.

There is also some more details of the problems here http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=44261
 
xlteks
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:30 pm

i have installed R52Hn for twice but a have stranger data rate when i saw datarate on registration table, the datarate always show 6Mbps/6Mbps, it's never more than 6Mbps, but it will change when we test bandwidth, it's normaly? or any one have a good setup for R52N ?

Signal streng 75
tx power default
distance : 10Km

yeah the same thing happens to me. it starts at 6megs/6megs with low ccq. then i run bandwidth test and it jumps up. is it normal? i have hit 240megs udp throughput over 8 miles.. crazy.. is it supposed to go back down though?
 
uldis
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:37 pm

Yes it is normal, the data rate goes down when you do not use the wireless link and as soon as you start to transmit the data-rate will raise up.
 
xlteks
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:50 pm

Yes it is normal, the data rate goes down when you do not use the wireless link and as soon as you start to transmit the data-rate will raise up.

thanks!
 
Chewers
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:14 am

Have similar problem, but in Rx Signal strength. Now its about -20°C out on street and my link shows weird readings from R52Hn card. Normal it would be -69dBm to -71dBm, but now it bounces from -77 to -96dBm. In same time don't see any speed or quality problems. Same with Signal to Noise which in normal situation is around 45dB now it when link is in heavy use (DL>15Mbps) it bounces from 27-65dB. Thanks

Update: Now it shows Rx between 59 to 64dBm
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Mrhot2000
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:57 pm

I have similar problems I am using r52hn with rb433uah attached with an alfa 24dm aoa-2415 omni antenna have about 6 clients within a 1km radius. All line of sights clear. I am using mode g only with speed limited upto 24mb to keep output to the max as I am using tplink 722n usb at client end with tplink8db panel antenna. The signals are constantly fluctuating between -37 to -71. I have no idea how to fix it. I tried using a 5414 chip card it didnt behave the same but i want to use the card in 4mhz channal width in pure n mode so I am trying to make the r52hn work
 
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OndrejSkipala
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Re: R52Hn strange readings

Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:11 pm

I just upgraded my NStreme Dual link and I'm having the very same problem. One way it is R52-R52 card and it works fine. The other way (upgraded) is now R52HN - R52HN card.

At TX side I use 22dBi dual-polarity antenna, at RX side I use two antennas, 29dBi vertical pol. and 24dBi horizontal pol. The link performance is the same like using R52 with single polarity antenna or worse.

TX signal at TX side and RX signal at RX side are the same, normal state is -56dB, but it jumps around from as much as -120dB to +120dB (this happens for a second or so and repeats every few seconds).

TX is using 5GHz-only-N, b/g/a rates all unchecked, HT rates all checked, HT Streams set to double. I thought that setting HT Streams to both will increase the stability and datarate of the previous link, since the RX side has extra antenna. I was wrong, dont know why. It does not work better, it works even worse.

I'm using ROS 5.8, 2.29 firmware. R52HN cards were bought in May 2012. I sent support files to Mikrotik, will see what happens. I haven't found any solution about this problem anywhere on this forum yet.

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