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neandero
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R52Hn running multiple band simultaneously ?

Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:54 pm

Can R52Hn be running as an access point at 2.4Gh and 5.8Gh simultaneously?

Since R52Hn has 2 jacks for antenna, maybe hook one jack to a 2.4 Sector, and one for 5.8 Sector, and
have the Access point name example: Mikrotik.

now if anyone makes a search using 2.4 system or using 5.8 can see mikrotik AP?

is this possible?
 
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Re: R52Hn running multiple band simultaneously ?

Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:20 pm

While there apparently are some radios that can do that, I don't think this one can.

The two antenna jacks are so you can run in 802.11N 2x1 or 2x2 mode.

Ridiculusly flawed analogy: With two eyes, you can see depth that you can't see with only one eye. With 802.11n and two antennas, you can "see" more bandwidth than you can with only one antenna.
 
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neandero
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Re: R52Hn running multiple band simultaneously ?

Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:46 pm

Ok, so than can i hook 4 sectors on 2 R52Hn each pointing different face like (north-south-east-west)?

the point in mind is to expand the my network and use rb800.
I want to use the basic 4 slots of miniPCI 2 for 2.4 and 2 for 5.8, so that i can cover 360deg of 2.4 and 5.8.

if i could use the 2 jacks of R52Hn on RB800 as following, it would be so great:

2.4
R52Hn 1 -> Jack 1 -> Sector North
R52Hn 1 -> Jack 2 -> Sector South
R52Hn 2 -> Jack 1 -> Sector East
R52Hn 2 -> Jack 2 -> Sector West

5.8
R52Hn 3 -> Jack 1 -> Sector North
R52Hn 3 -> Jack 2 -> Sector South
R52Hn 4 -> Jack 1 -> Sector East
R52Hn 4 -> Jack 2 -> Sector West
 
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Re: R52Hn running multiple band simultaneously ?

Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:44 am

You might be able to get away with that but I wouldn't recommend it and its not operating the cards (especially N cards) in the way they were designed to be operated.

You would be better off using two cards, one 2.4 and one 5.8 and 4 omni-directional antennas, spaced physically as far apart as you can get them, or probably better, on 2.4, one horizontal omni and one vertical omni (and the same thing on 5.8 ). Clients could then use a single dual-polarity panel antenna (each polarity uses one of the connectors on the N radio). non-N clients, if any, could use one polarity or the other (better if there aren't any non-N clients though).

Better than the above would be 4 radio cards with a dual polarity or 2 180 degree antennas for the 2.4 and the same for 5.8 (and the same as above for the clients).

radio 1 connector 1 -> northern sector horizontal
radio 1 connector 2 -> northern sector vertical

radio 2 connector 1 -> southern sector horizontal
radio 2 connector 2 -> southern sector vertical

etc., and this will give you 2x2 MIMO, which increases reliability and throughput.

However 180 degree and especially 360 degree antennas with 802.11, and especially in 2.4, in my opinion is asking for trouble, unless you are in a pretty rural area.

You could always put up more than one routerboard if you need more radios, but channel options in 2.4 are pretty limited. If you can get the AP radios and antennas far enough apart physically, you might be able to reuse the same channel, or overlap nearby channels, in opposite directions.

And note that these radios are still ONE radio each. they cannot / will not receive from one client on connector 1 and another client on connector 2 at the same time, nor will they receive on connector 1 and transmit on connector 2 at the same time.

Also, 802.11 networks tend to start out fine, but as you add more clients they start to fall apart. nstream can partially alleviate this, and hopefully nv2 can almost completely alleviate it (other than when all your clients want to watch netflix at the same time). All your clients would have to be mikrotik though for either of those options.
 
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neandero
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Re: R52Hn running multiple band simultaneously ?

Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:39 am

Let me get this straight - just using one RB800 since it has 4 miniPCI!

what Radio Card there is that can support multiple sectors which each pointing different direction?

i don't think Radio with 2 connectors is good if each sector is 180 degree.
best is a Radio with 3 antenna connectors each sector being 120 degree. (to me this is more economic)
most excellent is a Radio with 4 antenna connector each hooked to a 90 degree sector.

The question to the above, what Radio is out there that has at least 3 connectors to completely cover 3 sectors each at 120 degree?

the other question is mikrotik platform? it only has options as selecting either antenna a, or antenna b, but not both?

Image


and now since a have a big project to work on, there are wireless frequencies that don't require a direct eye contact to the access point, such frequencies that pass through walls and houses. i believe its below 2.4, a small modem sized as a usb flash memory. my question is what frequencies that is and do mikrotik support them too and provid the Radios for them.

if i could do this, i can cover an area on 3 bands, a 2.4, a 5.8, and a ? that travel through walls.
now that will require 3 different set of Sectors on tower, and the problem will only be radios.
so if i have radios with multiple connectors, i can have just one routerboard like RB800, to support all the 3 bands?

so is that possible at all?
 
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Re: R52Hn running multiple band simultaneously ?

Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:09 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11#802.11n

These radios do not have two connectors for two sectors. They have two connectors for MIMO. Read the link above for an explanation.

There are no radios that I know of that have multiple connectors made for sectorized systems.

the antenna A/B switch is for the older cards with diversity switches. This is not applicable with the new 802.11n cards.
 
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Re: R52Hn running multiple band simultaneously ?

Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:43 pm

In the USA and probably other places you can use part of the lower 900mhz band, and there are very few channels, and I think the card part number is CM9, but I'm not sure who makes it at the moment. 900 can sometimes have too much interference to be useful (partly because it tends to penetrate things).

With the CM9, there is one radio per card, like the others. There may also be other 900mhz cards that would work.
 
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Re: R52Hn running multiple band simultaneously ?

Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:25 pm

There is the XR9, SR9 and FLR9G30, all 900MHz.

FLR9G30 seems to be the better of the three according to most folks. I've got a few and haven't done thorough testing yet.
 
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Re: R52Hn running multiple band simultaneously ?

Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:58 pm

What about 800MHz? is there any miniPCI cards out that can be supported by Mikrotik Routerboards?

I believe Mobile GSM networks all operate on the 900s, so that could cause some major technical and law enforcement problems !
 
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Re: R52Hn running multiple band simultaneously ?

Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:54 am

This is in the case of the USA, I don't know about other regions:

lower 900 contains a small unlicensed band, which is where the mentioned cards operate. I don't think there is any unlicensed spectrum in 800. 800 contains a lot of public safety and other licensed stuff.
 
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Re: R52Hn running multiple band simultaneously ?

Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:51 pm

There is the XR9, SR9 and FLR9G30, all 900MHz.

FLR9G30 seems to be the better of the three according to most folks. I've got a few and haven't done thorough testing yet.
0ldman,

How did the FLR9G30 turn out?

Have you evaluated the PR9?

GNca George over on dslr would like your input on the XR9 and SR9 and I would like your input as well.
 
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Re: R52Hn running multiple band simultaneously ?

Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:47 pm

Ok, so than can i hook 4 sectors on 2 R52Hn each pointing different face like (north-south-east-west)?

the point in mind is to expand the my network and use rb800.
I want to use the basic 4 slots of miniPCI 2 for 2.4 and 2 for 5.8, so that i can cover 360deg of 2.4 and 5.8.

if i could use the 2 jacks of R52Hn on RB800 as following, it would be so great:

2.4
R52Hn 1 -> Jack 1 -> Sector North
R52Hn 1 -> Jack 2 -> Sector South
R52Hn 2 -> Jack 1 -> Sector East
R52Hn 2 -> Jack 2 -> Sector West

5.8
R52Hn 3 -> Jack 1 -> Sector North
R52Hn 3 -> Jack 2 -> Sector South
R52Hn 4 -> Jack 1 -> Sector East
R52Hn 4 -> Jack 2 -> Sector West

It's work great ,in this configuration you cant get full n standart bandwidth, but you get full 360deg coverage only with 2 wireless cards ,
i use this in situations there in wireless coverage area is not very much clients,
(max 30-50 connections)
on client side i use 1x1 chain configuration, and on client side show 60-150mbps conections speed (depending on distance) ,real traffic from 20-40mbps without nstream enabled,
in sitations then nstrem enabled (then all clients have mikrotik equipment) real traffic is double, about 40-80mbps.
it works very good with other configuration like 2 x 23db panel or one 23db panel + sector 90deg.
then i need connection there is very low ccq (threes with 3-8km distance or very high noise) i use this configuration:
2x 23db panel antena installed in both polarization or sometimes one 32db parabolic antena with 2 same polarization head, conect to r52hn and in other end same antens and i get good signal and ccq !!!
 
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Re: R52Hn running multiple band simultaneously ?

Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:39 pm

In the USA and probably other places you can use part of the lower 900mhz band, and there are very few channels, and I think the card part number is CM9, but I'm not sure who makes it at the moment. 900 can sometimes have too much interference to be useful (partly because it tends to penetrate things).

With the CM9, there is one radio per card, like the others. There may also be other 900mhz cards that would work.
CM9 is am older but still popular low power 802.11a/b/g card made by Wistron. It does not cover 900MHz.

http://www.roc-noc.com/pdf/wnc/CM9_Data_Sheet.pdf

Tom
-----------------------------------------------
http://www.roc-noc.com
Tom, CCNA, ISP, USA Mikrotik Distributor
888-762-5662
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Re: R52Hn running multiple band simultaneously ?

Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:05 pm

There is the XR9, SR9 and FLR9G30, all 900MHz.

FLR9G30 seems to be the better of the three according to most folks. I've got a few and haven't done thorough testing yet.
0ldman,

How did the FLR9G30 turn out?

Have you evaluated the PR9?

GNca George over on dslr would like your input on the XR9 and SR9 and I would like your input as well.
I did not get the drastic difference that others have described with the FLR9G30. It does seem to have more linear tx power than the XR9. I've read where others have tested the XR9 and gotten better results at lower frequencies (907 vs 922). My experience shows the same and the Xagyl card seems to be more consistent. I still have major noise issues and I plan on swapping out the AP for the Xagyl card, not just because of the supposed improvements, partially because I need my 900MHz card in a separate AP. Probably going to add in the FLR9G30 (need a short name for that card) in as a completely separate system and swap between the two to see the differences.

Bottom line, right now, the card seems to be slightly better than the XR9. If I can get the FLR9G30 I will, but the XR9 will certainly continue to be used.
 
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Re: R52Hn running multiple band simultaneously ?

Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:13 am

CM9 is am older but still popular low power 802.11a/b/g card made by Wistron. It does not cover 900MHz.
I mis-remembered the part number (must be that 9), SR9 are the ones we actually have.

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