can i ask what happens if congestion or interference effects 5.7 how does canopy handle this, can frequency be moved?Right now I am thinking Canopy in the 5.7 range
I will continue to repeat a comment i made before,I am not sure about the rest of the world but in the US unless you are providing service in very very rural areas I think we are all in the same boat.
I have been trying to make the same decisions as you the last few months and I had some high hopes for NV2 but from my testing it is far from stable enough. When it works the results can be pretty good but it suffers from stability issues that range from registered clients just "locking up" and stop passing data to clients that won't stay registered. It seems to me that it is more susceptible to noise than the standard wireless package. I realize that it is still in "testing" phase but they have added the wireless package to a stable release so it should IMO be usable on a production network. I have tried Nstreme over the years and it never has worked as advertised for PMP, it works well for PTP but every time I have tried it with PMP there have always been latency issues and throughput wasn't that great. I am not sure at this point in time that MT developers realize how dire the need is for an efficient/stable GPS sync system and even to the point where the semi mock people for asking for it. If they aren't even working on the system yet it is going to be a year + before they have anything that is semi useable.
Our entire PMP network is MT and due to problems I mentioned above we have been unable to use any of the "proprietary" wireless features of MT. So we are forced to use 802.11 with small channel sizes due to the terrible noise floor in our area. I have stuck completely with MT for AP's and Clients with the hope that they were going to come out with a proprietary wireless package that would solve the noise/capacity issues, but I just don't see it happening. I have come to realize that there are more cost effective solutions out there for 802.11 that are just as stable as MT that don't require assembly and special configuration of every CPE. I have several new tower buildouts this year and it is going to be hard for me to justify building them out with MT gear when there is less expensive gear out there from a company who already has working TDMA and is actively working on a GPS sync system. Not saying that there won't be an MT router a the bottom of the tower but there may not be 3+ MT AP's and 100% MT clients fed off these towers. We may go from spending $10000+ on MT for a tower buildout "including clients" to $200 for a router at the bottom.
Mikrotik need to setup their own specialist WISP Research & Development department, assemble and test working solutions for WISPS, first we need more optimized working equipment and second required is training on how to better our networks using Mikrotik?MT needs to really look at who are using their system.
Is it just a routing platform or is it really a WISP platform that has amazing routing capabilities!
Remember Mikrotik, WISP customers purchase in volume and if given good products and support will remain longterm customers,Who buys more equipment? Enterprise level routed networks or WISPs that need advanced routing for reasonable prices? Where is the least competition - enterprise routing or WISP routed networks?
U can do combination MT for station and some good sector like this http://www.wifi-stock.com/details/airmax19sec.htmlThanks for the input. Anybody have a suggestion on pre-assembled 5ghz cpes out there at a good price and with good installation and maintenance features?
I think ill do some mikrotik 5ghz testing
Will those setting work on the 5.8For the guys here who are having AP issues with latency - my solution.
Hope this helps!
http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php ... 62#p244162
Thanks rodneal.Here's the only way I have found to make the 2.4 work.
Before I throw out questions, I would like to state that I am looking for hardware solutions and suggestions, I would like to steer away from business practices and/or why we can't compete. We all know whats happening, its just how do we continue to stay competetive, meet our customers needs, and sustain our business model.
Many of us are in the same boat, customers want more for the same amount of money. The same group of customers used 4x the bandwidth in 2010 than in 2009. My competitors can CONSISTENTLY give 10+mb up and down. We are stuck at 3-4mb very inconsitently. Our backhaul infrastructure is just fine. We just cant deliver it to our customers. I feel we have to move to a proprietary solution. I plan to retire our current PtMP networks ( RouterOS, XR2s, and demarc/ns2/rb411 cpes), still support them but with no additions. And build on top of our existing network with something else. Right now I am thinking Canopy in the 5.7 range. Then allowing our customers to upgrade to the new package offerings and upgrade their CPE's.
I have a full business plan in place to move ahead with Canopy. But then this morning in bed I thought maybe Mikrotik can offer me something if I am willing to move to a proprietary solution. Will nstream w/polling and/or nv2 be something I could look at? Or is there something else? I am sold on canopy, as thats what our competitors use to walk all over us. I have always had the upper hand until recently.
How would you build your PtMP network if you had to do it all over again RIGHT NOW, Mikrotik or Not (as essentially thats what will be happening)?
Anything 802.11 now qualifies for all 50MHz, including 802.11n. There are several products available capable of operating on 3.65GHz capable of 50 to 150Mbps throughput - It's perfectly usable for backhaul.I think the government wanted us only to get 25mhz so we couldnt use them as backhauls. However you still can but there are better ways.
That depends on your operating environment - if you need long legs and operate in a rural environment, you still need the reach of 2.4GHz, and the noise is still... tolerable, though problematic. I assume in an urban/suburban environment, it's much worse and 5GHz is your only option.For theWISP:
You operate a WISP and didnt realize 2.4 is useless? 5GHz has the only chance to deliver the bandwidth you want.
There are two classes of devices, the low power ones none of us would be interested in; but the high power devices can be placed with antenna heights up to 30 meters (75 meters HAAT), and have EIRP limits of 4 Watts - the same power limits we're used to working with for 2.4GHz/900MHz. However, they have superior penetration and propagation characteristics due to lower frequency. The only issue that remains is the 30 meter height / 75 meter HAAT. I can live with 30 meter AGL, and where I am located I can even live with 75 meter HAAT. Unfortunately the 75 meter HAAT makes these frequencies largely useless in the western USA.So much misinformation: TV whitespaces are for smartphones and very very low power devices with antennas that are ostensibly restricted to such low heights, it yields the so-called 'new spectrum' absolutely useless for WISP business. This is actually a hardware comment, because any notion that hardware will be available any time soon is for those on another planet. TV whitespace spectrum was a purely political play. I too researched it at the behest of investors, and could not report anything worth spending their money on. Research on the 'trials' will give you the evidence of this ploy.
These are indeed valid concerns, but can't you still use it for point to point applications with suitably tight pattern antennas?Regarding 3.65GHz, in the urban areas it has been essentially rendered useless. Certain utilities with endless budgets have saturated the tiny band with massive deployments for their AMR and 'SmartHome' systems. Did they have to invade this tiny token of spectrum so their gullible customers could adjust thier air-conditioning while driving down the expressway? Big money vendors have come to town to show me their wares, only to leave with their tails between their legs when even they couldnt cut through the ridiculously high noise floor that has been foisted on the urban and metro areas of the country. This is a disappointing trend, but thats what happens when you only have money to throw at the problem.
If you have the subscriber density to make the ROI work, it's definitely a suitable solution. I don't have that kind of density in my operating area, though.Since this is a MT forum, I hate to get into vendor issues, but your question begs at least a comment. I deployed Canopy the day it became available. Today's Canopy is not your daddy's Canopy [sic]...There is Canopy that utilizes totally different transmission techniques, although taking some of the desirable features with them. The order of magnitude of increased expenditures for Canopy is significant, but cannot disrespect the product for that alone.
I couldn't agree more!Knowledgable and savvy WISP operators can and do make delivering bandwidth with MT and similar hybrid equipment viable, and I do it every day. Standardization becomes a significant factor when making hardware decisions, and MT has always delivered a compatible path delivering a scalable infrastructure without having to throw away your legacy network. It just isnt that hard.
What he said.You requested information on hardware, but I believe another concept would be recommended. The ability to compete is not necessarily related to just the hardware. Do you monitor your network? The only way to stay competitive is to develop a 'system' that provides reliable service, and the speeds your customer base demands. Monitoring your network and collecting years of empirical data will give you the information, and ability to respond to the widely varying events that occur within the day of a WISP operation. The ability to respond to customers, based on effective and viable monitoring (hint hint), combined with hardware that is scalable and as future proof as possible is essential to business continuity. IMHO, MT provides the most flexibility to configure and operate reliably within a constantly changing environment. Vendors with so-called high-end equipment lock you into their way of thinking about the way you operate your business. Dont let the hardware dictate how you operate your business. Let your total systems approach, combined with a good dose of common sense and customer service deliver the goods. MT combined with the Dude has been the only combination so far that meets these requirements. Having operated most all of the mentioned equipment and technologies for over 15 years, I have seen many come and go. The ones that are still around all have good systems, with varying sets of equipment, many of them with MT, some with others. I have personally seen them, know them, and co-exist with them to this day.
So to not continue the verbosity, thats my take on this situation that we are all in. Again, be careful what you ask for...It might not be what you wanted to hear. Thats my system to compete...