There are a lot of people who seem to be having the same issue. It happens on every AP I convert to NV2 it doesn't seem like it would be super hard to reproduce as long as you are testing in a real world outdoor noisy environment.there are a few improvements in v5.3 in this area, maybe it could help. we have not been able to reproduce this kind of issue in our testing, but the fix could help.
It was released today. Check the download page, there's also an announcement thread.
there are a few improvements in v5.3 in this area, maybe it could help. we have not been able to reproduce this kind of issue in our testing, but the fix could help.
Done.please email about the port flapping to support. we need full description of your setup, cables, other end of the cable, powering, etc.
Can u post here also for members who maybe able to suggest more ?Done.please email about the port flapping to support. we need full description of your setup, cables, other end of the cable, powering, etc.
we need full description of your setup, cables, other end of the cable, powering, etc.post what?
Greatwe don't need it anymore, problem has been identified and fixed in v5.4 which is already available to those interested. when we complete testing, we will release it.
Chad, on these disconnection nv2 links, do you use nv2 security?I have logs full of.
Lost connection, control frame timeout
And
Lost connection, medium-access timeout
I have the problem with station WDS links more than standard station. It seems like the WDS links disconnect all within a seconds of each other then sometimes will reconnect within a few seconds and other times they will have a hard time reconnecting and won't even show the AP they are supposed to be connecting to in the wireless debug log.
It does happen on non WDS links also but not nearly as often. I have played around with NV2 settings but nothing really seems to help with the problem. This is a pretty noisy area in 2.4Ghz but the clients have good Signal strengths and good CCQ when moving data and I don't see the disconnect issues when running Nstreme or 802.11.
For example I have four clients within 100 yds of each other two are set up as station WDS and the other two as stations, all with almost identical signal strengths and quality. The two WDS clients will disconnect within seconds of each other while the station clients remain connected. This is a pretty noisy area for 2.4 but I am able to push ~14Mbps the all these clients individually. But the disconnects are a huge Pain, reminds me of the "extensive data loss" problems that have plagued MT for years now.
I know there are others having these same issues, has anyone found a cure for it yet?
I opened a ticket yesterday and sent in support files but have not heard anything back yet. The current ticket number is 2011052366000116
Chad, on these disconnection nv2 links, do you use nv2 security?I have logs full of.
Lost connection, control frame timeout
And
Lost connection, medium-access timeout
I have the problem with station WDS links more than standard station. It seems like the WDS links disconnect all within a seconds of each other then sometimes will reconnect within a few seconds and other times they will have a hard time reconnecting and won't even show the AP they are supposed to be connecting to in the wireless debug log.
It does happen on non WDS links also but not nearly as often. I have played around with NV2 settings but nothing really seems to help with the problem. This is a pretty noisy area in 2.4Ghz but the clients have good Signal strengths and good CCQ when moving data and I don't see the disconnect issues when running Nstreme or 802.11.
For example I have four clients within 100 yds of each other two are set up as station WDS and the other two as stations, all with almost identical signal strengths and quality. The two WDS clients will disconnect within seconds of each other while the station clients remain connected. This is a pretty noisy area for 2.4 but I am able to push ~14Mbps the all these clients individually. But the disconnects are a huge Pain, reminds me of the "extensive data loss" problems that have plagued MT for years now.
I know there are others having these same issues, has anyone found a cure for it yet?
I opened a ticket yesterday and sent in support files but have not heard anything back yet. The current ticket number is 2011052366000116
I have the feeling it makes a difference in busy spectrum with other nv2 channels around.
Probably you're up for migraines in that case.I have tried both with and without security, it doesn't seem to make a difference in my case. I have reverted back to Nstreme for now.
If MT can't reproduce what so many users are seeing and having problems with I don't have much hope of them fixing it anytime soon. I am contemplating just making the switch to UBNT and being done with the headaches.
there are a few improvements in v5.3 in this area, maybe it could help. we have not been able to reproduce this kind of issue in our testing, but the fix could help.
please email about the port flapping to support. we need full description of your setup, cables, other end of the cable, powering, etc.
we don't need it anymore, problem has been identified and fixed in v5.4 which is already available to those interested. when we complete testing, we will release it.
@ Chadd I am confused from reading replies by Normis (a) MK could not reproduce the issue (b) Email support (c) Problem identified and fixed in V5.4, but reading your reply today have you tried 5.4 and is this issue still presentI have tried both with and without security, it doesn't seem to make a difference in my case. I have reverted back to Nstreme for now.
If MT can't reproduce what so many users are seeing and having problems with I don't have much hope of them fixing it anytime soon. I am contemplating just making the switch to UBNT and being done with the headaches.
Hi WirelessRudy,...........
Oh, by the way, I have one short range link (15 mtrs!) between two NS-loco's with airmax enabled. I had many disconnects with these as well. Only when I removed the airmax (=tdma, like nv2) link became more stable.
.......
Don't know, don't think so. Not using Airmax solved most of the problem and changing to lower 5Ghz band freq. has done the rest. But antenna is still NSloco which I presume has two antennas, H+V pol.Hi WirelessRudy,...........
Oh, by the way, I have one short range link (15 mtrs!) between two NS-loco's with airmax enabled. I had many disconnects with these as well. Only when I removed the airmax (=tdma, like nv2) link became more stable.
.......
On reading your comment about disconnects at 15 meters reminded me about my experiences with band II fm broadcasting and the reason why circular polarity antenna’s which have a gain of -3db is used in preference to using single polarity antenna’s with gain of between 0dB to +8dB, was phase cancellation which occurred when a strong single polarity signal gets inverted, could the same be happening in your case?
@ Chadd I am confused from reading replies by Normis (a) MK could not reproduce the issue (b) Email support (c) Problem identified and fixed in V5.4, but reading your reply today have you tried 5.4 and is this issue still present
One quick test if using vertical polarity is to rotate the second off vertical by say 20-40 degree's (similiar to rotating a telescopic Fm antenna to improve reception) and check if disconnects still occur?Don't know, don't think so. Not using Airmax solved most of the problem and changing to lower 5Ghz band freq. has done the rest. But antenna is still NSloco which I presume has two antennas, H+V pol.
I don't have sophisticated tools to really measure what is going on in spectrum. All I can do is use the tools and info given to me by the antenna and the real life experience with some common sense...
Chadd i assume you have upgraded your firmware as wellAs Normis mentioned he recommended I upgrade to 5.3 as it may fix some of the disconnect issues. I upgraded and then also had ethernet port flapping problems along with wireless NV2 disconnects. I responded saying that the ethernet port flapping was fixed in 5.4, I upgraded to 5.4 and the ethernet problem was fix but I still have wireless disconnect issues.
So to sum it up.
5.4 fixed the ethernet problem caused by 5.3
5.4 did not fix the NV2 wireless disconnects that myself and numerous others have with NV2. This is the problem that MT can't reproduce.
I think you are probably talking about disconnect timeout, I have played with this setting and think on the AP I have been talking about it is currently set to 6seconds. That particular setting doesn't seem to help with the NV2 timeout disconnects. Setting that number too high can also tie up your AP because that is how long your AP waits to disconnect a client after unsuccessful attempts at transmitting data to the Client. It is based off of three settings I think.Hey guys this is my first post... so go easy...
So... we changed cable... put a RB435G in the place of the RB493G and put back the XR2 and XR5 cards. Unit has been very stable ever since... 4 days now. Thennnnnnnn... this morning noticed some 2.4 clients popping on and off. I remebered that my Engineer had changed the "Distance Timeout" (under advanced) in the AP setting to 00:00:07 instead of :03 in the RB493G setup. So I went back into the new RB435G this morning and changed the "Distance Timeout" on the new RB435G to 00:00:07 and the clients have stopped dropping. I also went into the 4 or so clients that were getting dropped and changed their time out to :07 also. But they were not dropping after I changed the AP only.
All these settings have no meaning in AP running NV2: http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php ... 03#p251203I think you are probably talking about disconnect timeout, I have played with this setting and think on the AP I have been talking about it is currently set to 6seconds. That particular setting doesn't seem to help with the NV2 timeout disconnects. Setting that number too high can also tie up your AP because that is how long your AP waits to disconnect a client after unsuccessful attempts at transmitting data to the Client. It is based off of three settings I think.
HW retries:
On Fail Retry Time:
Disconnect Timeout:
@ chadd
Can you post your reading under wireless tab a "scan", i would like to check is signal, noise, freq
You may ask why but i have a suspicion that the timing disconnects could be linked to a noisy tower, one of my masts was working very good with NV2 (5 Ap’s + 2 PTP’s) but attached extra 2 PTP’s and 2 AP’s had hourly disconnects and one had every 4 or so hours disconnects, only one with the narrowest TX/RX (10°)
beam did not suffer, the rest have 90° RX/TX beam
For me a temp solution was to use a rotation of wireless protocols AP1 =802.11, AP2 =NV2, AP3 =802.11, etc
And for my issues I am going to concentrate on the reduction of unwanted signal levels?
http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=49835
I am not sure NV2 will handle noise better than nstreme or 802.11, all i can say is my disconnects are directly related to other stuff on my mast and as mentioned NV2 was working OK but when i added extra ptp's it triggered disconnects again,This area is for sure noisy and I am sure most of the issues are related to that. But IMO NV2 should work at least as good if not better than Nstreme and straight 802.11 when dealing with noise. But in my experience NV2 will not handle noise well at all.
What happens if I share a tower with other WISPs?nv2 doesn't play nice. it wants the whole playground to itself.
Are we now in a race to see who can implement NV2 first? If the other guys beat me to it, will my links become unusable?
On a mast with multiples of AP's + Ptp's unwanted signal isolation or reduction from the others is a must, for me i have to increase from -11dbm to a least -30+, on Ptp's where noise is picked up between the link then the use of reduced beamwidth antenna's, the height at each location and every step is taken to select a area with minimum unwanted signal pickup, then NV2 can it's "playground" to play fair?From the documentation:
http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/NV2#Compa ... _protocolsAs NV2 does not use CSMA technology it may disturb any other networks in the same channel. In the same way other networks may disturb NV2 network, because every other signal is considered noise
I have tried unsucessfully to have my cpe's scan to another ap on the connect list, when primary ap on the connect list fails, maybe i am doing this incorrectly?[/quote]Well, in that case you have to set both of their freq's in the Scan list.[quote="WirelessRudy" ......
- Use ´Scan list´ in CPE's. If radio disconnect it comes back faster but more important, radio only listens on its centre freq. and is therefore better ´concentrated´ to its working freq. Togehter with the 10Mhz channel I think it is a very good tool to get away from 20Mhz band users. They might still have problems with my 10Mhz thouhg! (hehehe)
- Upgraded my whole network to ros5.4 now. Very stable (wireless) version!
Example:Thanks but unfortunately this is a manual scan of what frequencies the CPE will use, my plan was to have a Auto changeover to another AP on the connect list if the primary Ap was down but not so, the SSID if different from primary AP is the obstacle to this auto change over selection?Well, in that case you have to set both of their freq's in the Scan list.
I do not know how it exactly works but by enabling the Scan list and mentioning one, or more freq's the radio only listens on these freq's. You can set several freq's after each other, just separate them with a comma (,).
You can see the result in the status screen of the wireless window. If in default you see all freq's of the band being scanned, if enabled you only see it try the freq. you want it to use.
When wireless device receives frame (e.g. beacon in this case) it checks frame CRC. That CRC is calculated over whole frame (both - header, that includes mac addresses, and contents, that includes SSID in case of beacon frame), not just part of it. If CRC is incorrect, that frame is not processed any further. So you can not receive "partially correct" beacon frame where mac address is correct, but SSID is wrong. Therefore this 2 rules per AP approach is not necessary - you will achieve the same with just one rule that specifies SSID. Other than that your approach is completely valid and effective in decreasing re-connection time.I set for each AP a ´connect-to´ rule with in one its SSID and the other the mac address. So for 2 AP's you'll get 4 rules.
Reason: If you use mac address only and you need to change the radio of the AP (because it is broken), clients won't connect to new radio. You'll have to visit each of them. (If they are not connected to another AP.)
If you use SSID only but due interferences part of that info in the broadcast beacon might get lost the CPE will disconnect.
Ok, thanks. Never too old to learn. So for hardening the connection it is no use. Is there any difference in choosing either the SSID classifier or the mac address in the ´connect-to´ lists?When wireless device receives frame (e.g. beacon in this case) it checks frame CRC. That CRC is calculated over whole frame (both - header, that includes mac addresses, and contents, that includes SSID in case of beacon frame), not just part of it. If CRC is incorrect, that frame is not processed any further. So you can not receive "partially correct" beacon frame where mac address is correct, but SSID is wrong. Therefore this 2 rules per AP approach is not necessary - you will achieve the same with just one rule that specifies SSID. Other than that your approach is completely valid and effective in decreasing re-connection time.I set for each AP a ´connect-to´ rule with in one its SSID and the other the mac address. So for 2 AP's you'll get 4 rules.
Reason: If you use mac address only and you need to change the radio of the AP (because it is broken), clients won't connect to new radio. You'll have to visit each of them. (If they are not connected to another AP.)
If you use SSID only but due interferences part of that info in the broadcast beacon might get lost the CPE will disconnect.
By the time client has finished scanning and chooses AP to connect to, it knows both - SSID and mac-address of every AP it sees. So the classifiers used in connect-list does not affect how client is scanning, it only affects how client chooses AP from the list obtained during scanning. Effect of connect-list on client performance is negligible no matter what classifiers you use, as long as you do not create unreasonable amount of connect-list rules.Ok, thanks. Never too old to learn. So for hardening the connection it is no use. Is there any difference in choosing either the SSID classifier or the mac address in the ´connect-to´ lists?
Maybe a wise idea to use both the classifiers in one ´connect-to´ rule?
Pro's and con's of each of these 3 options?
By the time client has finished scanning and chooses AP to connect to, it knows both - SSID and mac-address of every AP it sees. So the classifiers used in connect-list does not affect how client is scanning, it only affects how client chooses AP from the list obtained during scanning. Effect of connect-list on client performance is negligible no matter what classifiers you use, as long as you do not create unreasonable amount of connect-list rules.Ok, thanks. Never too old to learn. So for hardening the connection it is no use. Is there any difference in choosing either the SSID classifier or the mac address in the ´connect-to´ lists?
Maybe a wise idea to use both the classifiers in one ´connect-to´ rule?
Pro's and con's of each of these 3 options?
What classifiers to use depends completely on logic you want clients to use when connecting. Specifying both - SSID and mac-address can be considered "strongest" way to specify particular AP. If you use this combination, client will not connect to other AP (e.g. rogue AP with same SSID and stronger signal). On the other hand - like you already wrote, when you specify only SSID, you have the ability to change AP without reconfiguring clients. Of course, you can strengthen your setup against rogue, same SSID, stronger signal AP by creating 2 rules - one with mac and SSID and second only with SSID. This way rogue AP will only be able to cause client to connect to it if it will make client not see the correct AP, but if you will decide to replace AP, client will still connect with second rule and you can go and update connect-list to new AP.
I would say that you may want to use mac-address matcher if there are (or there are chances that there may be) multiple APs with the same SSID in range. If that is not the case then mac-address matcher is of no use.
True. But a strict ´connect-to´ list is only a part of it. As you can see in my list http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php ... 91#p266791 I have done many more and all my disconnects are gone.I have a really great idea..
How about we fix the disconnect issues so how long it takes to reconnect doesn't matter. I mean really we are talking about how to "speed up" re connections that shouldn't be happening in the first place.
Rudy,As I wrote somewhere else in this forum, the introduction of tdma protocols and the software and drivers to deliver it, imho also made radio's more sensitive for ´foreign´ signals, specially if they are also NV2. Some even stated NV2 is more "aggressive" and "you'd better be the first to use it!".
That doesn't mean it is a failure or downgrade of the radio/software, you just have to be more careful in how your network is setup.
But, on the other hand, some have the idea some chip-sets perform less than they should, or could, with NV2. So yeah, things are always open for further improvements....., probably both on the OS, the drivers and the chip-sets themselves...
then you'll be forced to use motorola gear, it always seems to kick butt when interference is concerned.