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honzam
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NV2 disconnect problem

Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:08 pm

Hello.
Still is there problem that causes disconnects on links with NV2 !!
A lot of solved with MK support.

Links have good signal (-50 - 60), good CCQ but still disconnect, not responding. Problem persist in all version 5.x (also in 5.14 and 5.15RC1)
Routerboot is the last.

It happens on 200meters links (with a sextant), but also on the 9 km links with high-quality parabolic antenas.

This is reflected in the single 802.11N but also in the N 2x2. If on the same link is NV2 disabled, there is NO problem with disconnect.

http://ispforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1656
http://ispforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1652
http://ispforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1653

Have anyone same problems? Thank you
Last edited by honzam on Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:10 pm

Most of my disconnect issues are usually a result as of noise on one or both RX chains.
 
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:47 pm

Hello.
Still is there problem that causes disconnects on links with NV2 !!
A lot of solved with MK support.

Links have good signal (-50 - 60), good CCQ but still disconnect, not responding. Problem persist in all version 5.x (also in 5.14)

It happens on 200meters links (with a sextant), but also on the 9 km links with high-quality parabolic antenas.

This is reflected in the single 802.11N but also in the N 2x2. If on the same link is NV2 disabled, there is NO problem with disconnect.

http://ispforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1656
http://ispforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1652
http://ispforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1653

Have anyone same problems? Thank you
I solved all my NV2 AP disconnects by improving each AP antenna enclosure shielding from each other this has reduced the signal pickup from the other AP's and stopped NV2 disconnects,
http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php ... it=rx%2Ftx
Never had NV2 disconnects with grids but I moved them as far apart from the AP's on the mast,

When you scan from each antenna what is the pickup signal level from this scan of other nearby units,
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:26 am

I solved all my NV2 AP disconnects by improving each AP antenna enclosure shielding from each other this has reduced the signal pickup from the other AP's and stopped NV2 disconnects,
http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php ... it=rx%2Ftx
Never had NV2 disconnects with grids but I moved them as far apart from the AP's on the mast,
When you scan from each antenna what is the pickup signal level from this scan of other nearby units,
This NV2 link works on channel 5680. There is NO network on same chanel. See scan...
But this problem is on many links. I do not know what to improve?
We dont use grids! We use only parabolic antenas with metal shielding enclosure. http://nanoboot5.cz/reflektor_5ghz_23db/062.jpg
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:36 pm

Hi, I have the same problem. NV2 is constantly disconnects. I also use shielded boxes and quality dish.
There I discovered another problem with the NV2, link is attached, but do not pass any data.
AP Bridge (bridge= eth1 + wlan) ----- station (static routing) - link is active, but occasionally pass through any data. It helps to reboot the AP.

RouterOS 5.14.

P.S. When the switch connection to Nstreme both problems disappear. But again Nstreme understand the power of N-cards.
 
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:52 pm

At this point if this was happening to me, I would either purchase or if possible hire a spectrum analyser to scan 5Ghz band frequencies ( get 1 that will scan up to 8Ghz or above),remember MT scan show 802.1 compliant transmissions and not all of other users who can and do use this unlicensed band will show up on this type of scan,

Is your network bridged or routed, i am using routed.

Do you use "any" wireless protocol on the client side, I had issues with this (but they were not disconnects) and were solved by using "NV2 Nstream 802.11"

As sometimes with an issue like this a process of elimination could be used,I assume you have tried different frequencies
(had a backup wireless Vlan disconnecting at -88 but moved freq by 40Mhz and now no disconnects signal varing between -84 to -90) another parabolic antenna, radio card, pigtail, cat5 cable different POE and power supply,

Power supply have you checked how clean the AC voltage is at your location does it have high voltage spikes or “hash” on the AC waveform

Can you post more photos if possible of http://nanoboot5.cz/reflektor_5ghz_23db/062.jpg
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:53 pm

I have the same problem. Nstreme again do not go well on the two chain. Speed ​​falls to the minimum rate.

NV2 would like to modify the PTP link. PTP connections with minimum latency is 3ms horror.
 
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:12 pm

I have same problem.. Latest version on all RB´s (latest firmware of course) and all clients are disconnected randomly (still again).

:arrow: Please tell us, when this problem will fixed? :?:
 
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:43 am

It could support Mikrotik express your opinion?
According to the responses I am not alone who has these problems.
Support@mikrotik.com does not respond to emails.

Normis, Sergejs - so how do we report problems?
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:00 pm

I have the same problem (perfect db -53 to -60, not noise, etc.) ... I'm looking for 5.15 every day with the hope of a fix...
 
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:42 pm

Our 5.14 NV2 links are working flawlessly.
http://thebrotherswisp.com/ | Mikrotik MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCINE | Fortinet FTCNA, FCNSP, FCT | Extreme Networks ENA
 
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:00 am

Could be ... Honestly I'm not an expert.
In some sites, I fixed it moving to other frequencies were also 100% free, but in others the problem persists without apparent reason.
I see that the problem is bigger when are 2 antennas very close, although they are in different channels, any advice?
Thanks
 
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:38 am

I have the same problem (perfect db -53 to -60, not noise, etc.) ... I'm looking for 5.15 every day with the hope of a fix...
I also hope!
5.15rc1 don´t solve this disconnect problem :(
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:51 pm

Dear MT team.
How do we report this problem? Via email no answer from support.
I have generated supout.rif after disconnect with 5.15rc1(12.April) and still disconnect.
Thanks
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:00 pm

yes, I have the same error logs :(
 
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:06 pm

Dear MT team.
How do we report this problem? Via email no answer from support.
I have generated supout.rif after disconnect with 5.15rc1(12.April) and still disconnect.
Thanks
Have you tried moving this effected antenna to another nearby location (even on a temporary mast) and checking.
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:59 pm

Have you tried moving this effected antenna to another nearby location (even on a temporary mast) and checking.
It's not a problem "one link".
The problem occurs in most links (PTP) and a large number of sector antenas (Point To Multipoint)
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:31 pm

Have you tried moving this effected antenna to another nearby location (even on a temporary mast) and checking.
It's not a problem "one link".
The problem occurs in most links (PTP) and a large number of sector antenas (Point To Multipoint)
Is this happening on just one mast with ptp's + ptmp's AP's or several masts, also when you updated OS version have you updated firmware
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:00 pm

They are different places. It's not one mast. Problem reported by several users, just read the thread...

ROS is of course, the last 5.14 or 5.15rc1
RouterBOOT everywhere last.

This "disconnect, not responding" disconnects the current VOIP call, Skype, VPN and other... :cry: :cry:
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NV2 disconnect problem

Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:39 pm

In my opinion you are all wasting your time trying to find a fix - we have done extensive field testing and have found the ONLY successful NV2 installations are way out in the country where there is NO other RF - we have concluded that NV2 is extremely susceptible to even the slightest of interference. Having said that we gave up testing at ROS 5.8 so it is possible they have improved it since then.
 
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:49 pm

In my opinion you are all wasting your time trying to find a fix - we have done extensive field testing and have found the ONLY successful NV2 installations are way out in the country where there is NO other RF - we have concluded that NV2 is extremely susceptible to even the slightest of interference. Having said that we gave up testing at ROS 5.8 so it is possible they have improved it since then.
there have been made multiple Nv2 stability improvements since v5.8.
Please upgrade to RouterOS v5.14 and check on your towers, how well it is working. Also we will have some Nv2 improvements for v5.15 as well.
 
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:54 pm

Hi vk7zms, thank you for your opinion.
It is possible that it is NV2 sensitive to interference.
But how is it possible that Airmax (UBNT) dont have this problem? It is also TDMA.
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NV2 disconnect problem

Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:11 am

I can't comment on the Ubnt product as we are a 100% mikrotik house for unlicensed gear.

As for NV2 improvements since 5.8, if they are worth trying, why are they not documented in change log...
 
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:29 am

Have you tried to increase hw-retries? What data-rates have you selected?
 
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:45 am

As for NV2 improvements since 5.8, if they are worth trying, why are they not documented in change log...

They are listed.
http://www.mikrotik.com/download/CHANGELOG_5

5.14 made our NV2 connections in noisy areas substantially better than the earlier 5.x releases. Id recommend giving it another try.
 
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:46 am

In my opinion you are all wasting your time trying to find a fix - we have done extensive field testing and have found the ONLY successful NV2 installations are way out in the country where there is NO other RF - we have concluded that NV2 is extremely susceptible to even the slightest of interference. Having said that we gave up testing at ROS 5.8 so it is possible they have improved it since then.
A very interesting comment can I ask have you got a 5-6 GHz spectrum usage graph to support this theory, I certainly haven’t wasted my time in fixing my NV2 disconnects as it’s now working perfectly.
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:37 pm

Have you tried to increase hw-retries? What data-rates have you selected?
to my best knowledge the hw-retries are ignored by NV2 (and nstreme too)...
 
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:01 pm

 
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:02 pm

Have you tried to increase hw-retries? What data-rates have you selected?
to my best knowledge the hw-retries are ignored by NV2 (and nstreme too)...
I mentioned this before, why cannot MT just grey out any wireless setting not used when NV2 protocol is selected.
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:16 pm

Hi I have the following problem.
I have put all clients in the NV2 Nstream 802.11 protocol. Then when AP is still in any protocol clients can still connect to the VAP on the distribution, but as soon as I change the AP to NV2 protocol all clients disconnect. Clients only register when AP is back to any protocol.

Can anyone please help in this regard? Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

Thank you.
 
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:27 pm

Hi I have the following problem.
I have put all clients in the NV2 Nstream 802.11 protocol. Then when AP is still in any protocol clients can still connect to the VAP on the distribution, but as soon as I change the AP to NV2 protocol all clients disconnect. Clients only register when AP is back to any protocol.

Can anyone please help in this regard? Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

Thank you.
VAP does not work with NV2 protocol, which is a pity.

http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php ... it=vap+nv2
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:57 pm

Thank you
 
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:39 pm

Now with 5.15 it is better. Only two times in two days.
But reconnect time with 5.15 is about 20sec. See ticket 2012011166000224
With 5.14 is reconnect time about 4-6sec

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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:11 pm

Had to move a Ptp 19db panel higher on a mast, it was about 2.5 meters away from Omni and now is about 1 meter and when i changed frequency, NV2 disconnects occurred every few mins so I scanned and tried another frequency and upgraded to 5.15, 16hrs in and so far so good, so my point is a combination of events caused the NV2 disconnects, for those who think there a simple solution like software only for NV2 disconnects maybe badly mistaken about addressing this issue
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:37 pm

Nothings better !
I change for nstreme (for 50-60 meters link) and now works perfectly without disconnects. (24 h works wtihout disconnects - later 1 disconnect /h) Trying fw from 5.11 to 5.15.
OSPF (non broadcast) with bgp based vpls working terrible with this settings (nv2).
Long disconnects, ospf can't bring up other 3-4 minutes. Ping between neighbours work but no adjacency and route install in this time.
NV2 protocol is for now completly unstable an not usable.
Performance is good but without link stability.
 
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:17 am

Same problem here with NV2 in PtMP environment...

Now all my APs PtMP are bridged without WDS, in Nstreme mode and clients or subnodes in Nv2-Nstreme and station-bridge waiting for a stable version to try NV2... in PtP the NV2 links are better and stable!

I hope MT guys can quickly solve the NV2 problem for PTMP environments to really see and sense the best practices of TDMA...

Regards,
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:20 am

We have very loaded PtMP (about 31clients) in interfering environment in 802.11A with NV2.
Now are all clinets with 5.15 and AP with 5.15

It is very stable, all clients must have data rates - ADVANCED ! AP also Advanced. There is very little disconnect. I post photos tomorrow

BUT
Problem is with links N 2x2 with NV2.
There is still disconnect problem with 5.15 - Sometimes 6 times per day :(
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:14 pm

we will try to do some more testing with 2x2 on Nv2 protocol.
For other that has problems with disconnection, you also use 2x2, or it is also happening for one stream operations?
 
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Tue May 01, 2012 11:41 am

we will try to do some more testing with 2x2 on Nv2 protocol.
For other that has problems with disconnection, you also use 2x2, or it is also happening for one stream operations?
Thank you. Good to hear this message. :wink:

This sector is in interfering environment. It is 802.11A with NV2
Most clients hold the same uptime as AP. But 6 clients are constantly disconnects. All have 5.15 and datarates - Advanced.
The first client has a bad signal -66/-83 understand here it disconnects for bad signal.
But others are also disconnected.
The rest holds and is stable!
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Wed May 02, 2012 12:49 pm

please provide us support output file in a new support ticket about this router.
We need support output file from this AP and as well from those 6 clients.
 
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Wed May 02, 2012 6:13 pm

@honzam

Looking at the signals (tx/rx) from registered clients from -36 upwards, what distance is these clients from the AP.
Also fourth client down -52/-65 after 5.30 minutes rx/tx rate of 6Mbps should be higher
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Thu May 03, 2012 3:20 pm

please provide us support output file in a new support ticket about this router.
We need support output file from this AP and as well from those 6 clients.
send to support
Looking at the signals (tx/rx) from registered clients from -36 upwards, what distance is these clients from the AP.
Also fourth client down -52/-65 after 5.30 minutes rx/tx rate of 6Mbps should be higher
distance is from 34meters to about 500meters
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Thu May 03, 2012 4:23 pm

I have set all my Clients CPE's data rates at 24Mbps and some with low signal or CCQ (or both) to lower, The AP's are set to 24Mbps which has increased the ccq figures, my distance for clients would be 2KM to 20KM not sure with clients "34meters to about 500meters"

You signals average is very strong from clients, have you tried lowering the AP tx power and checked.
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Wed May 09, 2012 3:11 pm

Try to setup connection without QAM-64 and is much better now.
See settings in attachment (must disable MCS 5-7, and MCS 13-15 - on basic rates too).
rate selection algorithm: advanced
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Thu May 10, 2012 11:04 pm

Try to setup connection without QAM-64 and is much better now.
See settings in attachment (must disable MCS 5-7, and MCS 13-15 - on basic rates too).
rate selection algorithm: advanced
You working with this setup in N 2x2 ?
5.15 or 5.16? I try it...
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Fri May 11, 2012 12:46 am

Hey there,

First I, for one, want to confirm this -- happening both on PtP and PtMP connections with no visible cause.

What's strange: I got a PtMP connection where one client is disconnecting and the other isn't. I tried to go through their settings, but it seems like those are _totally the same_ - versions, settings, queues, I even tried to run a backup of one on the other, the only difference is the radio MAC and radio name. Setup is in (mostly shielded (6m underground)) laboratory, both clients are SXTs. I also saw a post about lowering the TX power on wiki, tried that, didn't help (not even a tiny bit)

You probably know where I'm going - from this view it really totally looks like a hardware problem (on ~30% of new wireless cards!). Please tell me it's not :]

What I would like to do now is to help Mikrotiks to solve&close this, as NV2 is just "too good to fail". Questions follow:

- Is there some methodology to get more debugging output from the situation?

- Any information on "what could cause this"?

- Any point at stress test that would reveal more / show how to effectively trigger the error?

- Could this be affected by a frequency spectrum choice or sole frequency choice? (I couldn't confirm this yet, but I suspect that our Mikrotiks that don't have Country set to Czech republic behave a little better)

- Any idea about what other differences between device settings should I try to search for?

- If there's no (currently available) fix, is there at least some good measure to easily determine whether given connection will be failing this way or not?

For completeness I supply the story of disconnection for everyone who never saw it "online":

1] everything ok, some speed visible on both RX and TX
2] RX suddenly goes to zero, stays there. Signals and everything else stay the same.
3] a few seconds later, there's the timeout message
4] TX gets disconnected too, reconnection begins
5] connection, loop to 1].

Thanks :]
-exa
 
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Fri May 11, 2012 2:21 pm

................... Setup is in (mostly shielded (6m underground)) laboratory, both clients are SXTs. I also saw a post about lowering the TX power on wiki, tried that, didn't help (not even a tiny bit)

You probably know where I'm going - from this view it really totally looks like a hardware problem (on ~30% of new wireless cards!). Please tell me it's not :].................................



Thanks :]
-exa
You say mostly shielded can I ask have you shielded the SXT as this is the first item to start with and there is two methods external or internal, I have attached two pictures one for external shielding for a Sextant and my own internal shielding of a SXT using first 25mm copper strip painted over with conductive paint and earthed back to the board, which before shielding was picking up signals from AP’s from the rear of the SXT but after screening they were not.
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:42 pm

Hello. We have still problems on P2MP links. It is 802.11N with NV2

clients who have ROS 5.9 are most stable then clients with 5.19.

Any client when is downgraded to 5.9 - then have good uptime and little disconnect.
With 5.18 and 5.19 a lot of problems with disconnect :(
Have anybody the same problem?
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rickard
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:01 pm

Hello. We have still problems on P2MP links. It is 802.11N with NV2

clients who have ROS 5.9 are most stable then clients with 5.19.

Any client when is downgraded to 5.9 - then have good uptime and little disconnect.
With 5.18 and 5.19 a lot of problems with disconnect :(
Have anybody the same problem?

Test Ros 5.20 RC 1 i works!

//Rickard
 
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honzam
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Re: NV2 disconnect problem

Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:24 pm

I will try it
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