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rado3105
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Beamforming, airbeam, 802.11ac....are you planning?

Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:46 pm

explanation here:
http://www.networkworld.com/news/tech/2 ... 56707.html

What is already on the market and is top in free frequency...:
ruckus beamflex:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAVaUsdWw4g
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/bea ... 390-7.html

Are you working on something similar MIkrotik? 802.11ac with beamforming is future...much better performance, much less noise in enviroment, much better immunity to noise, much better ability go through walls, trees...
 
WirelessRudy
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Re: Beamforming, airbeam, 802.11ac....are you planning?

Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:02 am

For beamforming much more powerfull cpu is needed that needs to calculate constantly best antenna config to reach client.
Multi (up to 12!) directional antenna setup is needed. Result is that due the small size they'll have little db's, or when you make proper dB antennas the device becomes huge.

I've worked with some of the Ruckus stuff and they work great in small indoor environments with many clients, but when it comes to outdoor the lack of sheer physical gain of the antenna chain makes their present stuff not outperforming anything we use now.
On distances of 50+ meters you get better results with high gain 2x2 or 3x3 mimo for smaller price too!

One other disadvantage the 'Ruckus camp' is not telling, and its user not realizing, is that due the beamforming between two devices the range gets extended a bit. But the moment the link is broken due 'out of reach' you need to bring the client back into the normal range to connect to the beamforming device again. Or it can take several minutes before the 'beam' is configured and propagated such that it connects again.
This makes it for moving clients that move around the perimeter of the range a very frustrating experience, and for fixed situations in the border zone a unstable link.

But Ruckus has other, imho more interesting stuff; "Channel fly" where channels are continuously monitored for best performance and makes the AP to swap to another channel if the cpu thinks that one is a more 'clear' channel. The swapping goes seamless and the client not even disconnects... The AP than even 'remembers' the best channel so gives that one higher priority over always lousy channels.

They also have 'band steering' where multi band users (a + b/g radio's) can be forced to the other frequency by the AP (multi radio AP) if the other band is less used.

So, they have some very interesting technology developed, but in real life outdoor environment the advantages above normal use of 802.11a/b/g/n 2x2 or 3x3 mimo is minimal. Indoor they have the best system you can think off, but at a price.... But they out perform their higher ranked competitors like Cisco, Aruba or Hp to name some, and in this price class they are even economic priced...

But yeah, I agree on that MT needs to put more in new technology. Their is so much more possible in Wifi, they'd better not be the last ones to come up with the latest.....
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Rudy R. Puister

WISP operator based on MT routerboard & ROS.
 
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Re: Beamforming, airbeam, 802.11ac....are you planning?

Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:52 pm

Sorry to disagree with the first part of your post but we use Ruckus dual band outdoor radios on a campus wide hotspot. Upgraded from a MT 802.11b/g network the results were impressive. Far better range, roaming works well and good penetration into (wooden construction) houses and a lot of happier customers.

Ruckus is also used in a local city hotspot deployment where I have been driven around the town while streaming video to my laptop - pretty impressive roaming thanks to dynamic beamforming.

Ruckus own a lot of patents in this area and I suspect this might deter companies such as Ubiquiti and MT from following suit.
 
WirelessRudy
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Re: Beamforming, airbeam, 802.11ac....are you planning?

Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:27 pm

Sorry to disagree with the first part of your post but we use Ruckus dual band outdoor radios on a campus wide hotspot. Upgraded from a MT 802.11b/g network the results were impressive. Far better range, roaming works well and good penetration into (wooden construction) houses and a lot of happier customers.

Ruckus is also used in a local city hotspot deployment where I have been driven around the town while streaming video to my laptop - pretty impressive roaming thanks to dynamic beamforming.

Ruckus own a lot of patents in this area and I suspect this might deter companies such as Ubiquiti and MT from following suit.
hmm, maybe we should have a private discussion on this. I've had for a month or so 2 a set of three of their ZF7762 units in a mesh (which builds very easy with their controller and UI, best seen on the market so far), but the wireless was poor. I've had one of their dealer appointed technicians look at my setup and off course I'm not that stupid in wireless myself. I also followed Ruckus techwise course etc. (I'm actually approved partner of Ruckus)
But in the end I had better results with my own MT AP in normal 802.11b/g mode on a 8dBi omni antenna.
Just 50-60 meters away in full line of sight the 2 different laptops I tried just lost contact.... and I had to walk at least 20 meters back to get them connected again..... At same distance I had no issue connecting them to my omni....
And the mesh.... well, 300 meters apart in full LOS they have very poor connection. I could hardly run some megs over the link. And councelled their tech dept. they told me that reach was to be expected at only 150mtr. for these units anyway.....

In my home I still have a zd1000 with one ZF7363a/b/g/n and two ZF2942 B/G units and that works fine. But still very occasionally my laptop can't connect when it sits beside the laptop of my wife. I need to reset the adapter to connect to Ruckus again.


To be honest, I went to one of their 'big dog' events and I needed one of their technicians to get my laptop connected to their network in the congress hall. It took him several attempt before my very ordinary Samsung 'n' laptop was enabled to log-in to their local setup wifi network. A very disturbing sign on the wall for me at the time. (I was than still very enthusiast at their product line....)

The theory on their technology is absolute bashing, if MT could only take some notice of it and try to invents some similar it would make them a forerunner in this market. But as usual probably their biggest competitor in their market will come up with new wifi options before MT.
Look at mimo, tdma, antenna synch etc. MT is late, and their first attempts were more a disaster than a real step forward.

Since we are floating off topic for this forum now, contact me directly on my e-mail address, we can discuss experiences with Ruckus a bit deeper.
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Rudy R. Puister

WISP operator based on MT routerboard & ROS.

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