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samjan
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Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:50 am

Hi all, we see in the forum the topic about using the AR93xx with 3x3 MIMO to have the 300mbps real speed with Mikrotik OS.

So we have the Link 35km with 1,2M dual polar antennas and it's base on RB800+R5Hn? and we have 180mbps real traffic now.
So we add additional antenna 1,2M with 45gard polar. between H &V polarisation, and switch the boards with Intel DN2800MT+JJplus AR9390-AL1B. Receive Signals -52/-54, SNR 59. CCQ 87%/90% on any freq
It's industrial grade chipset, datasheet attached.
But, we can't receive the link speed more than 300mbps. So the boards work as 2x2MIMO, we have the same 180mbps of real traffic with link speed 270mbps/300mbps, and not find differences when we enabling chain2 in both side. It work in the same speed as chain0+chain1

Dear Mikrotik staff. May be you don't agree to use the third part of manufacturers, may be you don't have the right drivers for 3x3Mimo, may be we are choose the wrong 3x3 mimo?? What will be solutions?
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Re: Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:31 pm

Could you post your config printout for wireless?

Also did you enable all channel 0, 1 and 2 for the link?
 
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Re: Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:53 pm

i am not newbie in wireless... so if you can't help really, let's don't write nothing.

So today i rise the speed up to 210mbps with connection speed 300/300mbps, and enabled chain0/chain1 for TX and chain0/chain1/chain2 for RX. This is maximum which i can do with this chispet.

When i enable chain2 for TX, speed is lower to 140mbps


I think Mikrotik not supported this chipset for 450/450 connection speed... As usual with not mikrotik manufactured cards.
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Re: Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:01 pm

Why not just write to support and get the official answer straight from Mikrotik?
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Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:16 pm

i am not newbie in wireless... so if you can't help really, let's don't write nothing.

So today i rise the speed up to 210mbps with connection speed 300/300mbps, and enabled chain0/chain1 for TX and chain0/chain1/chain2 for RX. This is maximum which i can do with this chispet.

When i enable chain2 for TX, speed is lower to 140mbps


I think Mikrotik not supported this chipset for 450/450 connection speed... As usual with not mikrotik manufactured cards.
Dude, missed that you said you already tried chain2.
 
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Re: Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:40 am

we need support output files and also the printout of the wireless status of client to see the readings.
We supports data rates up to 450mbps on 3x3 mimo cards. You can try to put such card in RB800.
 
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Re: Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:31 pm

we need support output files and also the printout of the wireless status of client to see the readings.
We supports data rates up to 450mbps on 3x3 mimo cards. You can try to put such card in RB800.

So i try this cards on the DTN mainboard from one side and RB800 from other side.
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Re: Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:50 pm

Any news for compatibility?
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Re: Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:38 pm

I installed a SparkLan WPEA-127N-A ( AR9380 XB112 ) last week in a RB800 and I can confirm that I get a link connect at 450Mbit. I run my setup as a AP. One thing is that single session TCP does not improve at all using 450 compared to 300.
 
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Re: Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:46 pm

What is the link distance?
 
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Re: Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:54 pm

My cards is AR9390-AL1B
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Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:58 pm

Prior I've tried a gigabyte 9380-al1a and I got strange behavior. The Sparklan is the exact same but I guess it's different firmware that in my case made one card work and the other drop traffic for 10 sec every 30 sec.
 
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Re: Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:55 am

Is possible to get 3x3 by combination of 2x2 or 1x1 cards?
 
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Re: Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:35 pm

Is possible to get 3x3 by combination of 2x2 or 1x1 cards?
no, it is not.
 
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Re: Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Sun Dec 23, 2012 4:52 pm

Nothing else?
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Re: Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:39 am

 
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Re: Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:18 pm

Hi Matess,
can you show what you use as antennas? by models please.
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Re: Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:20 pm

Hi all, we see in the forum the topic about using the AR93xx with 3x3 MIMO to have the 300mbps real speed with Mikrotik OS.

So we have the Link 35km with 1,2M dual polar antennas and it's base on RB800+R5Hn? and we have 180mbps real traffic now.
So we add additional antenna 1,2M with 45gard polar. between H &V polarisation, and switch the boards with Intel DN2800MT+JJplus AR9390-AL1B. Receive Signals -52/-54, SNR 59. CCQ 87%/90% on any freq
It's industrial grade chipset, datasheet attached.
But, we can't receive the link speed more than 300mbps. So the boards work as 2x2MIMO, we have the same 180mbps of real traffic with link speed 270mbps/300mbps, and not find differences when we enabling chain2 in both side. It work in the same speed as chain0+chain1

Dear Mikrotik staff. May be you don't agree to use the third part of manufacturers, may be you don't have the right drivers for 3x3Mimo, may be we are choose the wrong 3x3 mimo?? What will be solutions?
When you say "real speed" and "real traffic" is this data rates and throughput?
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Re: Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:20 pm

Hi all, we see in the forum the topic about using the AR93xx with 3x3 MIMO to have the 300mbps real speed with Mikrotik OS.

So we have the Link 35km with 1,2M dual polar antennas and it's base on RB800+R5Hn? and we have 180mbps real traffic now.
So we add additional antenna 1,2M with 45gard polar. between H &V polarisation, and switch the boards with Intel DN2800MT+JJplus AR9390-AL1B. Receive Signals -52/-54, SNR 59. CCQ 87%/90% on any freq
It's industrial grade chipset, datasheet attached.
But, we can't receive the link speed more than 300mbps. So the boards work as 2x2MIMO, we have the same 180mbps of real traffic with link speed 270mbps/300mbps, and not find differences when we enabling chain2 in both side. It work in the same speed as chain0+chain1

Dear Mikrotik staff. May be you don't agree to use the third part of manufacturers, may be you don't have the right drivers for 3x3Mimo, may be we are choose the wrong 3x3 mimo?? What will be solutions?
When you say "real speed" and "real traffic" is this data rates and throughput?
n21roadie, when i write that i want to have the 300mbps real speed, it means i want to have the real test speed udp/tcp between bttest. When i write that i vahe 180mbps real traffic, it means that the modem's already work and the throughput tcp+udp+different packets=180mbps. The data rates i describe as link speed. And all parameters for one way.
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Re: Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:41 pm

Hi Matess,
can you show what you use as antennas? by models please.
Hi, it is standart 80cm satellite dish mounted upside down and custom made feeder. It is very good antenna for noisy enviroment and long range links, it is cheap, but harder to focus.
All 3 chains are working, but something is strange.... It seems like 3x3 on 2x2, because mcs are like 2x2, but ccq is sometimes higher then 100%. If i use only 2 chains, then is link speed the same (300/300) but ccq drops a little bit.

Some pictures.

http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/9877 ... 145707.jpg
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/3000 ... 133526.jpg
http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/8233 ... 133619.jpg
 
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Re: Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:18 am

Hi Matess,
can you show what you use as antennas? by models please.
Hi, it is standart 80cm satellite dish mounted upside down and custom made feeder. It is very good antenna for noisy enviroment and long range links, it is cheap, but harder to focus.
All 3 chains are working, but something is strange.... It seems like 3x3 on 2x2, because mcs are like 2x2, but ccq is sometimes higher then 100%. If i use only 2 chains, then is link speed the same (300/300) but ccq drops a little bit.

Some pictures.

http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/9877 ... 145707.jpg
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/3000 ... 133526.jpg
http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/8233 ... 133619.jpg
Where can I buy that feeder?
 
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Re: Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:54 pm


Hi, it is standart 80cm satellite dish mounted upside down and custom made feeder. It is very good antenna for noisy enviroment and long range links, it is cheap, but harder to focus.
All 3 chains are working, but something is strange.... It seems like 3x3 on 2x2, because mcs are like 2x2, but ccq is sometimes higher then 100%. If i use only 2 chains, then is link speed the same (300/300) but ccq drops a little bit.

..............
It would be interesting to try this custom made feeder on a prime focus dish as generally offset dish's are oval in shape and this will give higher gain in different polarities also what is the isolation between polarites?
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Re: Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:38 pm

it is custom made, so it is impossible to buy it right now. I don´t have the tools to do the measurment, but I want to make more theese links. If you are interested write me an e-mail how many pieces you want, and then I will place an order. Price is about 60 dollars / piece. If you can measure isolation and other properties it would be great.

If a place an order in the 1. week in January, then it should be ready at the end of the same month.

my email: matess@spkfree.cz
 
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Re: Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:35 pm

One quick way of checking polarity isolation is attaching two (or 3 ) radio cards, and frequency scan with the each card, and if the scan gives a result of less than -30 for any card then you have very low isolation.
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Re: Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:17 pm

silly queston... why do I need polarity isolation in mimo?

if i need to have multiple radios on that, then isolation between antennas is very important, but if i use mimo, which has phase shifted chains and beamforming...

correct me if I am wrong...

Look at jirous dual-polarized antennas

older named DuplEX
http://en.jirous.com/antenna-5ghz/jrc-24-duplex
great isolation between connectors,
use: 2 independant links, or dual link (dual nstreme).

new version called mimo
http://en.jirous.com/antenna-5ghz/jrc-24ex_mimo
smaller, simpler, cheaper, no information about isoloation between connectors.
 
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Re: Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:43 pm

i am not newbie in wireless... so if you can't help really, let's don't write nothing.

So today i rise the speed up to 210mbps with connection speed 300/300mbps, and enabled chain0/chain1 for TX and chain0/chain1/chain2 for RX. This is maximum which i can do with this chispet.

When i enable chain2 for TX, speed is lower to 140mbps


I think Mikrotik not supported this chipset for 450/450 connection speed... As usual with not mikrotik manufactured cards.
It's antenna problem. You have interferences between chains. From my experience - you can try to isolate pigtails near ufl connectors. Or try something like this:
Image
This card has a SMA-connector. Interferences near connectors are much lower than within ufl-type cards. With 3x3 it's very important to use high quality pigtails. The best will be on the semi-flexible cable: RG402 or similiar.
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Re: Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:03 pm

silly queston... why do I need polarity isolation in mimo?

if i need to have multiple radios on that, then isolation between antennas is very important, but if i use mimo, which has phase shifted chains and beamforming...

correct me if I am wrong...

Look at jirous dual-polarized antennas

older named DuplEX
http://en.jirous.com/antenna-5ghz/jrc-24-duplex
great isolation between connectors,
use: 2 independant links, or dual link (dual nstreme).

new version called mimo
http://en.jirous.com/antenna-5ghz/jrc-24ex_mimo
smaller, simpler, cheaper, no information about isoloation between connectors.
How are you going to check a chain phase shift and beamforming when a custom antenna is used?

How well does MIMO systems handle different types of interference, theory is fine and sales buzzwords are great but in the real world how does mimo compare for WISP's.
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Re: Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:19 pm

i am not newbie in wireless... so if you can't help really, let's don't write nothing.

So today i rise the speed up to 210mbps with connection speed 300/300mbps, and enabled chain0/chain1 for TX and chain0/chain1/chain2 for RX. This is maximum which i can do with this chispet.

When i enable chain2 for TX, speed is lower to 140mbps


I think Mikrotik not supported this chipset for 450/450 connection speed... As usual with not mikrotik manufactured cards.
It's antenna problem. You have interferences between chains. From my experience - you can try to isolate pigtails near ufl connectors. Or try something like this:
Image
This card has a SMA-connector. Interferences near connectors are much lower than within ufl-type cards. With 3x3 it's very important to use high quality pigtails. The best will be on the semi-flexible cable: RG402 or similiar.
Where can I buy that rg402 pigtail? Also what is the name for that mini-pci-e reduction cable?
 
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Re: Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:05 pm

It's antenna problem. You have interferences between chains. From my experience - you can try to isolate pigtails near ufl connectors. Or try something like this:
[img]image%20not%20quoted[/img]
This card has a SMA-connector. Interferences near connectors are much lower than within ufl-type cards. With 3x3 it's very important to use high quality pigtails. The best will be on the semi-flexible cable: RG402 or similiar.
Hi,
I just bought those tp-link wireless cards, and tried them on the table on 1m with tx power, all rates fixed at 0 and signal levels from -40dB to -50dB on all chains. I used just those in-box 2dBi antennas.

Link is at 270Mb/270Mb not more. Can you post your config with working 450Mb/s please?

TCP speed (bandwidth test) is about 160Mb/s, UDP si about 200Mb/s.

Matess

EDIT:
i just tried switch to 2,4GHz and there i can see sometimes 360Mb / 360Mb... so it seems, that this is antenna problem... I will post results when I get new feeders.
 
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Re: Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:45 am

i´ve tried those tp-link cards outdoor instead of compex wle300nx. Link stays the same... 144Mb/144Mb @ 20MHz - 90Mb/s real traffic.... still with old feeders and 80cm sat. dish.
 
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Re: Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:05 pm

i´ve tried those tp-link cards outdoor instead of compex wle300nx. Link stays the same... 144Mb/144Mb @ 20MHz - 90Mb/s real traffic.... still with old feeders and 80cm sat. dish.
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Re: Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:50 pm

New thing found....

compex wle300nx only with 2 chains enabled (H+V), 80cm sat dishes. Link stays the same... 144Mb/144Mb @ 20MHz - 90Mb/s real traffic

so the same results but only in 2 chains!

3rd chain only increases CCQ!
 
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Re: Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:57 am

What antennas are you using?
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Re: Mikrotik & Atheros AR9390-AL1B - 3x3 MIMO is it really?

Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:32 pm

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