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Fabbbio
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PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:08 am

I need to use a 17GHz solution for a 12Km link for carry stable 200Mbps FD in 5GHz high noise place.
I can't decide from ALCOMA or SAF, someone have experience with these brands, all the aspects from radio section to mechanical mounting?

Thanks
 
kraker
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:02 pm

At the begining of our wisp structure we can't decide between SAF and Alcoma like you.Both of them is perfect but we select SAF.It's very usefull for us especially FODU model.(Full outdoor unit)There is no any IDU equipment at this model.This is perfect for us because we haven't enough space for IDU.Also the Ligowave is the awesome product http://www.ligowave.com/ligoptp-5-23-unity...

Next week we install them(SAF) to our towers.

Good luck...
 
Fabbbio
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:09 pm

Ok thank you, yes also for me at the beginning we needed only 30Mbps but now much more. I plan to use 120cm dish.
Now I wait for some other suggest.

Thanks
 
Fabbbio
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:59 am

I have a price list of both and for same dish diameter there is around 1700€ of difference ( SAF is cheaper)
 
Fabbbio
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:02 am

Suggestions?

Thanks
 
karlos
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:39 pm

we use many Alcomas and they work great, exactly as fas as Alcoma declares. So if you buy for example MP360 link and Alcoma sais it will bridge 386Mbit , than it will. So this is what i like.

Not like 1,4Gbit Airfiber runnig max 300Mbit duplex or 400Mbit siklu running 150Mbit duplex
 
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czolo
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:33 pm

I need to use a 17GHz solution for a 12Km link for carry stable 200Mbps FD in 5GHz high noise place.
I can't decide from ALCOMA or SAF, someone have experience with these brands, all the aspects from radio section to mechanical mounting?

Thanks
You may be interested in this solution: Siae AlfoPlus 17Ghz. It's much better than Alcoma, because it has QAM1024. As I know it's also cheaper.
Image
| --= Czo|_o =--
| http://wifi4eu.pl
| Innovation in WiFi
 
n21roadie
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:02 pm

@czolo
Siae AlfoPlus 17Ghz - how much cheaper?
N21roadie,
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karlos
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:21 pm

You may be interested in this solution: Siae AlfoPlus 17Ghz. It's much better than Alcoma, because it has QAM1024. As I know it's also cheaper.
Its not cheaper and Alcoma supports
- Channel bandwidth 3.5 - 112 MHz
- Modulation scheme QPSK - 1024QAM
- Transmission capacity up to 920 Mbps full duplex

so why Siae ? and whats the stupid voltmeter ? Alcoma has full management with signal aligment tool.
 
n21roadie
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:23 am

.....................

so why Siae ? and whats the stupid voltmeter ? Alcoma has full management with signal aligment tool.
Could it possibly be for measuring POE voltage on load, and comparing the accuracy of management software reading and disconnecting afterwards?
N21roadie,
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saintofinternet
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:56 am

hi,

can someone tell me how is this discussion related to Mikrotik??
by professionals, for professionals....
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czolo
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:17 pm

@czolo
Siae AlfoPlus 17Ghz - how much cheaper?
For me the difference in price is about 500Eur.
| --= Czo|_o =--
| http://wifi4eu.pl
| Innovation in WiFi
 
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czolo
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:21 pm

You may be interested in this solution: Siae AlfoPlus 17Ghz. It's much better than Alcoma, because it has QAM1024. As I know it's also cheaper.
Its not cheaper and Alcoma supports
- Channel bandwidth 3.5 - 112 MHz
- Modulation scheme QPSK - 1024QAM
- Transmission capacity up to 920 Mbps full duplex

so why Siae ? and whats the stupid voltmeter ? Alcoma has full management with signal aligment tool.
Technically, I see that there is no difference between them. Voltmeter is useful when you setting the antenna on the tower. It's smaller then a laptop with www managmenet.
| --= Czo|_o =--
| http://wifi4eu.pl
| Innovation in WiFi
 
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czolo
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:29 pm

Its not cheaper ...
Where can I buy complete Alcoma link with >400Mbps, for less than 4k Eur?
| --= Czo|_o =--
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saintofinternet
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:35 pm

hi,

can someone tell me how is this discussion related to Mikrotik??

being on Mikrotik forum.... can still someone tell me how is this discussion related to Mikrotik??
by professionals, for professionals....
Don't forget to give KARMA!!!
 
Fabbbio
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:50 pm

We use mikrotik for all the network but for the main backbone now we can't use mikrotik and 5GHz we need 200-300MbpsFD. And other wisp have the same problem...
 
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saintofinternet
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:51 am

We use mikrotik for all the network but for the main backbone now we can't use mikrotik and 5GHz we need 200-300MbpsFD. And other wisp have the same problem...

can we achieve this 200-300 Mbps FD using Mikrotik Bonding? i mean there has to be some way to this.... yes i understand bandwidth will be a issue... but Alcoma and other allied units are highly costly.... if similar performance can be delivered using Mikrotik all the way it will surely be the boon for wireless networking...
by professionals, for professionals....
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ste
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:54 pm

We use mikrotik for all the network but for the main backbone now we can't use mikrotik and 5GHz we need 200-300MbpsFD. And other wisp have the same problem...

can we achieve this 200-300 Mbps FD using Mikrotik Bonding? i mean there has to be some way to this.... yes i understand bandwidth will be a issue... but Alcoma and other allied units are highly costly.... if similar performance can be delivered using Mikrotik all the way it will surely be the boon for wireless networking...
This cant be done with MT at the moment. You cant get the low latency of a FD Radio and you cant achieve the Bandwidth. Licensed gear works with 256QAM at least. Newer do 1024/2048. Channel size
is up to 2 times 56MHz.
Most WISPs use Licensed gear at the central lines and MT at the smaller links/customer connections and for routing.

A ping throug this:
1100AHx2,RB2011,Wireless Link,2xRB2011,Wireless Link,Media Converter,2xRB1100AHx2,Media Converter,Wireless Link,RB1100

gives:

[admin@gw46] > ping 192.168.50.117
HOST SIZE TTL TIME STATUS
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
sent=12 received=12 packet-loss=0% min-rtt=1ms avg-rtt=1ms max-rtt=1ms
 
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saintofinternet
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:27 am

so in this i suppose the wireless link is not from Mikrotik?? am i right???
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n21roadie
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:21 pm

..........................................
A ping throug this:
1100AHx2,RB2011,Wireless Link,2xRB2011,Wireless Link,Media Converter,2xRB1100AHx2,Media Converter,Wireless Link,RB1100

gives:

[admin@gw46] > ping 192.168.50.117
HOST SIZE TTL TIME STATUS
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
sent=12 received=12 packet-loss=0% min-rtt=1ms avg-rtt=1ms max-rtt=1ms
The ping - What distance with the wireless links also what is media converter?
N21roadie,
Network 100% MT for Now?
 
ste
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:45 pm

..........................................
A ping throug this:
1100AHx2,RB2011,Wireless Link,2xRB2011,Wireless Link,Media Converter,2xRB1100AHx2,Media Converter,Wireless Link,RB1100

gives:

[admin@gw46] > ping 192.168.50.117
HOST SIZE TTL TIME STATUS
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
192.168.50.117 56 62 1ms
sent=12 received=12 packet-loss=0% min-rtt=1ms avg-rtt=1ms max-rtt=1ms
The ping - What distance with the wireless links also what is media converter?
2x2km and 1x10km.

These Media Converters convert Fiber to GigabitEthernet.
We use a combination of fiber and 48V Power for licensed links.
Gives less problems compared to Copper with POE.
 
Fabbbio
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:46 am

Most WISPs use Licensed gear at the central lines and MT at the smaller links/customer connections and for routing.
Yes. This is my situation! But I don't have enough money to pay the license so I decided for 17GHz because 5GHz on my backbone is impossible to much noise and unstable link!

So I decide to use Alcoma or Saf, and I need some suggestions.

Thanks
 
pdf
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:46 am

Most WISPs use Licensed gear at the central lines and MT at the smaller links/customer connections and for routing.
Yes. This is my situation! But I don't have enough money to pay the license so I decided for 17GHz because 5GHz on my backbone is impossible to much noise and unstable link!

So I decide to use Alcoma or Saf, and I need some suggestions.

Thanks
You are Italian, SIAE is cheaper and it gives you a lot. If you want contact me in private and I can tell you prices.

Regards
 
n21roadie
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:42 pm

There is another financial issue we have to consider with licensed links apart from initial cost of purchase there could be approx. 1,200 euro annual licence fee which for “X” amount of PTP links does add up?
So the unlicensed option where suitable is our primary goal now.
N21roadie,
Network 100% MT for Now?
 
ste
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:24 pm

There is another financial issue we have to consider with licensed links apart from initial cost of purchase there could be approx. 1,200 euro annual licence fee which for “X” amount of PTP links does add up?
So the unlicensed option where suitable is our primary goal now.
This depends on country. We have much lower fees for short 38GHz links. This is worth the money to stay out of unlicensed bands with central links.
 
Fabbbio
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:28 pm

Most WISPs use Licensed gear at the central lines and MT at the smaller links/customer connections and for routing.
Yes. This is my situation! But I don't have enough money to pay the license so I decided for 17GHz because 5GHz on my backbone is impossible to much noise and unstable link!

So I decide to use Alcoma or Saf, and I need some suggestions.

Thanks
You are Italian, SIAE is cheaper and it gives you a lot. If you want contact me in private and I can tell you prices.

Regards
I can't send private message from the board.( I don't know why). But the local distributor here in Itlay give me a very good price for AlfoPlus and 90cm dish
 
n21roadie
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:56 pm

................ lower fees for short 38GHz links. This is worth the money to stay out of unlicensed bands with central links.
What distance can 38GHz cover?
N21roadie,
Network 100% MT for Now?
 
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saintofinternet
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:23 pm

................ lower fees for short 38GHz links. This is worth the money to stay out of unlicensed bands with central links.
What distance can 38GHz cover?
please define your country name when you discuss such topic.... it helps other understand the spectrum charges in their respective country.....
by professionals, for professionals....
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n21roadie
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:12 pm

................ lower fees for short 38GHz links. This is worth the money to stay out of unlicensed bands with central links.
What distance can 38GHz cover?
please define your country name when you discuss such topic.... it helps other understand the spectrum charges in their respective country.....
Strange I thought "location:........." below my user name would inform others of my country name?
And it would help if others would state location as advice given maybe only applicable in their country?
N21roadie,
Network 100% MT for Now?
 
ste
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:22 pm

................ lower fees for short 38GHz links. This is worth the money to stay out of unlicensed bands with central links.
What distance can 38GHz cover?
3-4km max with 99.995%. Depends on rain zone and allowed/possible tx-power.
Regulator gives frequency dependent of link length. So under 2km I would not get another
frequency even if I am willing to pay.
 
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saintofinternet
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:48 am

please define your country name when you discuss such topic.... it helps other understand the spectrum charges in their respective country.....[/quote]
Strange I thought "location:........." below my user name would inform others of my country name?
And it would help if others would state location as advice given maybe only applicable in their country?[/quote]


yes the country name does define the location :) but if you see not all have their country disclosed... hence the request :)
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Fabbbio
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:16 am

At the end I decided for Siae AlfoPlus, 1024QAM and a very good promotion price.
 
Cetalfio
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Re: PtP 17GHz with Alcoma MP vs Saf Lumina

Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:12 am

Ok do you know us if the product you have chosen will be good and its capabilities,
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