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Belyivulk
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Mikrotik, 802.11N and nstream (Working)

Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:19 pm

Hi all,

After a huge effort - i can confirm we have this combination performing stable with good throughput, low latency and no link drops under ROS 5.22.

Whos interested in the config?
Last edited by Belyivulk on Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ste
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Re: Mikrotik, 802.11N and nstream

Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:23 pm

Hi all,

After a huge effort - i can confirm we have this combination performing stable with good throughput, low latency and no link drops under ROS 5.22.

Whos interested in the config?
I am :-)
 
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Re: Odp: Mikrotik, 802.11N and nstream

Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:36 pm

I am
 
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Re: Mikrotik, 802.11N and nstream

Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:13 am

Alrighty, here is the full wireless configuration for our test site (which, has worked with production traffic on it and in this configuration is able to achieve 160mbit real TCP in one direction)

AP

/interface wireless
set 0 adaptive-noise-immunity=none allow-sharedkey=no antenna-gain=0 antenna-mode=ant-a area="" arp=enabled band=5ghz-a basic-rates-a/g=6Mbps basic-rates-b=1Mbps \
bridge-mode=enabled burst-time=disabled channel-width=20mhz compression=no country=no_country_set default-ap-tx-limit=0 default-authentication=yes \
default-client-tx-limit=0 default-forwarding=yes dfs-mode=none disable-running-check=yes disabled=yes disconnect-timeout=3s distance=dynamic frame-lifetime=0 \
frequency=5180 frequency-mode=manual-txpower frequency-offset=0 hide-ssid=no hw-fragmentation-threshold=disabled hw-protection-mode=none hw-protection-threshold=0 \
hw-retries=7 mac-address=00:0C:42:2B:4F:87 max-station-count=2007 mode=station mtu=1500 multicast-helper=default name=wlan1 noise-floor-threshold=default \
nv2-cell-radius=30 nv2-noise-floor-offset=default nv2-preshared-key="" nv2-qos=default nv2-queue-count=2 nv2-security=disabled on-fail-retry-time=100ms \
periodic-calibration=default periodic-calibration-interval=60 preamble-mode=both proprietary-extensions=post-2.9.25 radio-name=000C422B4F87 rate-selection=advanced \
rate-set=default scan-list=default security-profile=default ssid=PortRd-Parakiore-N station-bridge-clone-mac=00:00:00:00:00:00 supported-rates-a/g=\
6Mbps,9Mbps,12Mbps,18Mbps,24Mbps,36Mbps,48Mbps,54Mbps supported-rates-b=1Mbps,2Mbps,5.5Mbps,11Mbps tdma-period-size=2 tx-power-mode=default update-stats-interval=\
disabled wds-cost-range=50-150 wds-default-bridge=none wds-default-cost=100 wds-ignore-ssid=no wds-mode=disabled wireless-protocol=unspecified wmm-support=disabled
set 1 adaptive-noise-immunity=none allow-sharedkey=no antenna-gain=0 area="" arp=enabled band=5ghz-onlyn basic-rates-a/g=6Mbps basic-rates-b="" bridge-mode=enabled \
channel-width=20/40mhz-ht-below comment="testing" compression=no country=no_country_set default-ap-tx-limit=0 default-authentication=yes \
default-client-tx-limit=0 default-forwarding=yes dfs-mode=none disable-running-check=yes disabled=no disconnect-timeout=3s distance=dynamic frame-lifetime=0 \
frequency=5640 frequency-mode=superchannel frequency-offset=0 hide-ssid=no ht-ampdu-priorities=0 ht-amsdu-limit=8192 ht-amsdu-threshold=8192 ht-basic-mcs=\
mcs-4,mcs-5,mcs-11,mcs-12,mcs-13 ht-guard-interval=any ht-rxchains=0,1 ht-supported-mcs=\
mcs-4,mcs-5,mcs-11,mcs-12,mcs-13,mcs-16,mcs-17,mcs-18,mcs-19,mcs-20,mcs-21,mcs-22,mcs-23 ht-txchains=0,1 hw-fragmentation-threshold=disabled hw-protection-mode=none \
hw-protection-threshold=0 hw-retries=15 l2mtu=2290 mac-address=00:0C:42:6C:4E:2D max-station-count=2007 mode=ap-bridge mtu=1500 multicast-helper=default name=\
PortRoad->Parakiore noise-floor-threshold=default nv2-cell-radius=10 nv2-noise-floor-offset=default nv2-preshared-key="" nv2-qos=default nv2-queue-count=2 \
nv2-security=disabled on-fail-retry-time=100ms periodic-calibration=default periodic-calibration-interval=60 preamble-mode=both proprietary-extensions=post-2.9.25 \
radio-name=Test rate-selection=advanced rate-set=configured scan-list=5640 security-profile=default ssid=Test station-bridge-clone-mac=00:00:00:00:00:00 \
supported-rates-a/g=6Mbps supported-rates-b="" tdma-period-size=1 tx-power-mode=default update-stats-interval=disabled wds-cost-range=50-150 wds-default-bridge=none \
wds-default-cost=100 wds-ignore-ssid=no wds-mode=disabled wireless-protocol=nstreme wmm-support=disabled
/interface wireless manual-tx-power-table
set wlan1 manual-tx-powers="1Mbps:17,2Mbps:17,5.5Mbps:17,11Mbps:17,6Mbps:17,9Mbps:17,12Mbps:17,18Mbps:17,24Mbps:17,36Mbps:17,48Mbps:17,54Mbps:17,HT20-0:17,HT20-1:17,HT20\
-2:17,HT20-3:17,HT20-4:17,HT20-5:17,HT20-6:17,HT20-7:17,HT40-0:17,HT40-1:17,HT40-2:17,HT40-3:17,HT40-4:17,HT40-5:17,HT40-6:17,HT40-7:17"
set PortRoad->Parakiore comment="30dB Dish J4 Vert, J5 Hor" manual-tx-powers="1Mbps:17,2Mbps:17,5.5Mbps:17,11Mbps:17,6Mbps:17,9Mbps:17,12Mbps:17,18Mbps:17,24Mbps:17,36Mb\
ps:17,48Mbps:17,54Mbps:17,HT20-0:17,HT20-1:17,HT20-2:17,HT20-3:17,HT20-4:17,HT20-5:17,HT20-6:17,HT20-7:17,HT40-0:17,HT40-1:17,HT40-2:17,HT40-3:17,HT40-4:17,HT40-5:17\
,HT40-6:17,HT40-7:17"
/interface wireless nstreme
set wlan1 disable-csma=no enable-nstreme=no enable-polling=yes framer-limit=3200 framer-policy=none
set PortRoad->Parakiore comment="testing" disable-csma=no enable-nstreme=yes enable-polling=yes framer-limit=4000 framer-policy=best-fit
/interface wireless access-list
add ap-tx-limit=0 authentication=yes client-tx-limit=0 disabled=no forwarding=yes interface=PortRoad->Parakiore mac-address=00:0C:42:6C:4E:5D management-protection-key=\
"" private-algo=none private-key="" private-pre-shared-key="" signal-range=-120..120
/interface wireless align
set active-mode=yes audio-max=-20 audio-min=-100 audio-monitor=00:00:00:00:00:00 filter-mac=00:00:00:00:00:00 frame-size=300 frames-per-second=25 receive-all=no \
ssid-all=no
/interface wireless sniffer
set channel-time=200ms file-limit=10 file-name="" memory-limit=10 multiple-channels=no only-headers=no receive-errors=no streaming-enabled=no streaming-max-rate=0 \
streaming-server=0.0.0.0
/interface wireless snooper
set channel-time=200ms multiple-channels=yes receive-errors=no


Station

/interface wireless
set 0 adaptive-noise-immunity=none allow-sharedkey=no antenna-gain=0 area="" \
arp=enabled band=5ghz-onlyn basic-rates-a/g=6Mbps basic-rates-b=1Mbps \
bridge-mode=enabled channel-width=20/40mhz-ht-below comment=\
"testing" compression=no country=no_country_set \
default-ap-tx-limit=0 default-authentication=yes default-client-tx-limit=0 \
default-forwarding=yes dfs-mode=none disable-running-check=yes disabled=no \
disconnect-timeout=3s distance=dynamic frame-lifetime=0 frequency=5640 \
frequency-mode=superchannel frequency-offset=0 hide-ssid=no \
ht-ampdu-priorities=0 ht-amsdu-limit=8192 ht-amsdu-threshold=8192 \
ht-basic-mcs=mcs-0,mcs-1,mcs-2,mcs-3,mcs-4,mcs-5,mcs-6,mcs-7 \
ht-guard-interval=any ht-rxchains=0,1 ht-supported-mcs="mcs-0,mcs-1,mcs-2,mc\
s-3,mcs-4,mcs-5,mcs-6,mcs-7,mcs-8,mcs-9,mcs-10,mcs-11,mcs-12,mcs-13,mcs-14,m\
cs-15,mcs-16,mcs-17,mcs-18,mcs-19,mcs-20,mcs-21,mcs-22,mcs-23" ht-txchains=\
0,1 hw-fragmentation-threshold=disabled hw-protection-mode=none \
hw-protection-threshold=0 hw-retries=15 l2mtu=2290 mac-address=\
D4:CA:6D:12:2F:A1 max-station-count=2007 mode=station-bridge mtu=1500 \
multicast-helper=default name=Parakiore->PortRd noise-floor-threshold=\
default nv2-cell-radius=30 nv2-noise-floor-offset=default \
nv2-preshared-key="" nv2-qos=default nv2-queue-count=2 nv2-security=\
disabled on-fail-retry-time=100ms periodic-calibration=default \
periodic-calibration-interval=60 preamble-mode=both proprietary-extensions=\
post-2.9.25 radio-name=Test rate-selection=advanced rate-set=default \
scan-list=5640 security-profile=default ssid=Test station-bridge-clone-mac=\
00:00:00:00:00:00 supported-rates-a/g=\
6Mbps,9Mbps,12Mbps,18Mbps,24Mbps,36Mbps,48Mbps,54Mbps supported-rates-b=\
1Mbps,2Mbps,5.5Mbps,11Mbps tdma-period-size=2 tx-power-mode=default \
update-stats-interval=disabled wds-cost-range=50-150 wds-default-bridge=\
none wds-default-cost=100 wds-ignore-ssid=no wds-mode=disabled \
wireless-protocol=nstreme wmm-support=disabled
/interface wireless manual-tx-power-table
set Parakiore->PortRd comment="25dB Mars J4 Vert J5 Hor" manual-tx-powers="1Mbps\
:17,2Mbps:17,5.5Mbps:17,11Mbps:17,6Mbps:17,9Mbps:17,12Mbps:17,18Mbps:17,24Mb\
ps:17,36Mbps:17,48Mbps:17,54Mbps:17,HT20-0:17,HT20-1:17,HT20-2:17,HT20-3:17,\
HT20-4:17,HT20-5:17,HT20-6:17,HT20-7:17,HT40-0:17,HT40-1:17,HT40-2:17,HT40-3\
:17,HT40-4:17,HT40-5:17,HT40-6:17,HT40-7:17"
/interface wireless nstreme
set Parakiore->PortRd comment="testing" disable-csma=no \
enable-nstreme=yes enable-polling=yes framer-limit=3200 framer-policy=none
/interface wireless align
set active-mode=yes audio-max=-20 audio-min=-100 audio-monitor=\
00:00:00:00:00:00 filter-mac=00:00:00:00:00:00 frame-size=300 \
frames-per-second=25 receive-all=no ssid-all=no
/interface wireless sniffer
set channel-time=200ms file-limit=10 file-name="" memory-limit=10 \
multiple-channels=no only-headers=no receive-errors=no streaming-enabled=no \
streaming-max-rate=0 streaming-server=0.0.0.0
/interface wireless snooper
set channel-time=200ms multiple-channels=yes receive-errors=no
 
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Belyivulk
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Re: Mikrotik, 802.11N and nstream

Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:15 am

The trick, for what its worth, appears to be having nstreme set to "best fit" framer size "4000"

We have had this configuration working successfully with dual chain (and appropriate MCS rates); Extension channel ONLY (above and below); and Dual chain 40mhz. We've also had it working with the station in WDS, and the station in "Station" AND "Station-Bridge".

Our network employs MPLS with VPLS - and we have tested this under MPLS; and running a vlan over top of the wireless interface, into a bridge.

So pretty much most modes appear to work perfectly under this configuration - again running ROS 5.22 with 2.41 Routerboot (RB433GL and RB433AH).
 
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Re: Mikrotik, 802.11N and nstream

Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:25 am

Ill be interested to hear how others get on with these settings :)
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Re: Mikrotik, 802.11N and nstream

Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:39 pm

Is not such a big deal, this configuration will not work for everyone anyway. The problem is that nstreme is slower and have a bigger latency while the traffic goes up. On one link I have ~170mbps TCP and ~20ms ping with nv2 but with nstreme I have 120mbps and 80ms ping. So for some there is no gain in low latency(1ms) with low traffic but is better an 4-8ms latency and 80mbps traffic.
 
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Re: Mikrotik, 802.11N and nstream

Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:44 pm

Is not such a big deal, this configuration will not work for everyone anyway. The problem is that nstreme is slower and have a bigger latency while the traffic goes up. On one link I have ~170mbps TCP and ~20ms ping with nv2 but with nstreme I have 120mbps and 80ms ping. So for some there is no gain in low latency(1ms) with low traffic but is better an 4-8ms latency and 80mbps traffic.
What happens when you've tcp traffic passing multiple of this nv2 links. Does tcp speed decrease much more than udp traffic?
 
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Belyivulk
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Re: Mikrotik, 802.11N and nstream

Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:42 pm

In our testing we found that when you've tuned NV2 for lowish latency (say 2-3ms TMDA period size) Nstream produces more or less the same results up until you are maxing out the link - then latency goes up as the link becomes congested.

If we use larger TDMA period sizes, then NV2 wins the day for performance, but, if you have multiple NV2 links in a chain, in order to get out into the area you wish to cover, then you need lower latency per link (at the cost of performance); otherwise you quickly end up with 100ms latency at the fringe of your network even with no traffic flowing (plus even more for the PtMP part of the customers link). This latency is of course more or less unusable (and not competitive) in today's environment(s).

So it really is about picking the right technology for your application. Up until very recently we could not make nstream work stable - so it wasn't an option, now it is and thats just fantastic :)
 
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Re: Mikrotik, 802.11N and nstream

Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:35 am

The trick, for what its worth, appears to be having nstreme set to "best fit" framer size "4000"

We have had this configuration working successfully with dual chain (and appropriate MCS rates); Extension channel ONLY (above and below); and Dual chain 40mhz. We've also had it working with the station in WDS, and the station in "Station" AND "Station-Bridge".

Our network employs MPLS with VPLS - and we have tested this under MPLS; and running a vlan over top of the wireless interface, into a bridge.

So pretty much most modes appear to work perfectly under this configuration - again running ROS 5.22 with 2.41 Routerboot (RB433GL and RB433AH).
It shouldn't be just a couple values of those settings. Why does these will make everything to work for you and no other values? Why should it work everywhere else? Without any explanation and understanding why it does that it is quite meaningless magic. Maybe the MT should provide some protocol rundown for that.
 
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Re: Mikrotik, 802.11N and nstream (Working)

Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:37 am

I Agree. Good luck getting MT to reply to you and offer any meaningful advice. I suspect the support staff have no idea. I dont agree with this approach but we were left with "fiddling" until we were able to make it work. Lucky for us we figured it out (as we always do)
 
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Re: Mikrotik, 802.11N and nstream (Working)

Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:30 am

I Agree. Good luck getting MT to reply to you and offer any meaningful advice. I suspect the support staff have no idea. I dont agree with this approach but we were left with "fiddling" until we were able to make it work. Lucky for us we figured it out (as we always do)
You stick with 5.22. With 6.5 you would get worse results?
 
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Re: Mikrotik, 802.11N and nstream (Working)

Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:53 am

uldis and normis really dont care about anyone's posts and comments. My remarcs and from people around this board are just FYI. This is not a support, this is just as i said before bug report forum for us. We are lucky that we receive feedback from this people. We are also lucky that OS is Lynux. We are lucky, that every single bug imported in this OS is not printed anywhere, and changalog looks like TODO list.
I am lucky that i know your bugs, and i work with them.
Am i feeling lucky?
 
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Re: Mikrotik, 802.11N and nstream (Working)

Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:19 pm

with RouterOS v5.26 we don't have reports with disconnections/reconnection issues on Nv2 with default wireless settings.
There were changes to the wireless driver to improve connections since v5.22. Please upgrade to v5.26 if you have any issues now, and use default settings.
 
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Re: Mikrotik, 802.11N and nstream (Working)

Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:48 pm

Theres nothing in the changelogs about changes to the wireless driver relevant to this thread.
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Re: Mikrotik, 802.11N and nstream (Working)

Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:40 pm

Theres nothing in the changelogs about changes to the wireless driver relevant to this thread.
+1
 
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Re: Mikrotik, 802.11N and nstream (Working)

Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:36 pm

+2. Changelog is not full or you don´t say truth
LAN, FTTx, Wireless. ISP operator
 
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Re: Mikrotik, 802.11N and nstream (Working)

Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:13 am

Theres nothing in the changelogs about changes to the wireless driver relevant to this thread.
uldis wrote
changes are only for nv2

But did they make any changes to nstreme protocol as u know it is a big secret :) I dont know what are they hiding
When I do upgrade I want to know what is changed from previous version

in fact I can confirm nstreme work better with older Mikrotik version
 
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Re: Mikrotik, 802.11N and nstream (Working)

Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:53 pm

i confirm

3.30 + nstream - STABLE
5.x + nstrema - NOT STABLE
 
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Re: Mikrotik, 802.11N and nstream (Working)

Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:57 pm

Theres nothing in the changelogs about changes to the wireless driver relevant to this thread.
uldis wrote
changes are only for nv2

But did they make any changes to nstreme protocol as u know it is a big secret :) I dont know what are they hiding
When I do upgrade I want to know what is changed from previous version

in fact I can confirm nstreme work better with older Mikrotik version
I guess when they change Linux kernel or kernel modules this might give changes they do not notice.
So changes in the Linux scheduling might influence nstreme Performance.
 
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Re: Mikrotik, 802.11N and nstream (Working)

Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:41 pm

i confirm

3.30 + nstream - STABLE
5.x + nstrema - NOT STABLE
3.30 this version is not usable anymore even 4.x is not usable on the new hardware
 
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Re: Mikrotik, 802.11N and nstream (Working)

Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:01 pm

i confirm

3.30 + nstream - STABLE
5.x + nstrema - NOT STABLE
3.30 this version is not usable anymore even 4.x is not usable on the new hardware
v3.30 does not have any 802.11n support. I do not recall if the v4 has it either.
 
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Re: Mikrotik, 802.11N and nstream (Working)

Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:19 pm

Hm... Tell me if I am wrong but this setup shows 5Ghz-A in AP side?

I want stable N dual chain nstreme :)

Our N links works almost stable in nv2 but problem is very big aggregating latency after 4-5 hops... Nstreme solution would be God given.

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