Community discussions

MikroTik App
 
User avatar
azurtem
Trainer
Trainer
Topic Author
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 5:35 pm
Location: Nice, France
Contact:

SXT concentrator

Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:58 pm

Hi

I have begun offering Internet access (50 Mbps, 100Mbps, ...) to hotels located around my immediate vicinity

The first ones were connected using pairs of SXT Lite5

I trying to imagine the worst case scenario where many more customers also request such a connection

I'll either run out of 5GHz channels or masts on which to affix the SXTs

What could I use at the core to receive the client links instead of using SXT pairs ?
The Omnitik seems rather limited if all the customers request 100Mbps links

Any ideas, or recommendations ?

thanks
yann
 
User avatar
rextended
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 2950
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:49 pm
Location: Capalbio, Tuscany, Italy

Re: SXT concentrator

Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:50 pm

All client 100Mbit?
The solution is easy: use optic fiber.

You offer more than the wireless technology on ISM band provide...


******


100 Mbit par client?
Combien at-il coûté?
Vous obtenez haut débit gratuit?
I'm Italian, not English. Sorry for my imperfect grammar.
 
User avatar
azurtem
Trainer
Trainer
Topic Author
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 5:35 pm
Location: Nice, France
Contact:

Re: SXT concentrator

Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:33 pm

Hi

Thanks for your response

So far, I can obtain as many 500Mbps (/200Mbps upstream) fiber
links as I want volume quota

Therefore I'm trying trying to redistribute this bandwidth using SXTs
to clients (hotels) that are within my line of site.

I was simply wondering what the best setup would be to connect
the client SXTs to my 'hub', rather than have multiple point to point
SXT links i.e. one pair of SXTs per client.

yann
 
User avatar
rextended
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 2950
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:49 pm
Location: Capalbio, Tuscany, Italy

Re: SXT concentrator

Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:39 pm

The only way to get 100M (guaranted) for each client are:

ptp link between CED and every single Hotel

each ptp use one frequency

the frequency usable on external device on France are from 5500 to 5700 ***

the total is 10 channels not overlapped,

each channel can be polarized on four different ways (H/+45°/V/-45°) and mantain 100Mbit/s

but for transmit 100M you need to use for each hotel or two polarizations or two channels

(4 ways * 10 channels) / 2 needed to 100Mbit = 20 hotels, and all the WISP on your zone are at your door...

*** licence is need to transmit over own property? ptp link not admitted on 5GHz band?
I'm Italian, not English. Sorry for my imperfect grammar.
 
User avatar
azurtem
Trainer
Trainer
Topic Author
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 5:35 pm
Location: Nice, France
Contact:

Re: SXT concentrator

Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:54 pm

Thanks for the detailed input

I'd be happy if I get that many clients

In Nice the buildings are all more or less the same height,
so clear line of sight isn't always easy to obtain

ADSL and fiber are pretty well distributed already in France
so there isn't a huge market for urban WISPs as far as
businesses and residents are concerned

As far I as know no licence is required for private point to
point wifi links.

yann
 
User avatar
rextended
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 2950
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:49 pm
Location: Capalbio, Tuscany, Italy

Re: SXT concentrator

Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:02 pm

>>>As far I as know no licence is required for private point to point wifi links.

Stop be private if ptp link are used for work...

But...

remember: To be "private" must start and stop on same property, and the signal must not walk over other private or public property over than your own...

If you cause interferences with some WISP, this law can be used versus you...
I'm Italian, not English. Sorry for my imperfect grammar.
 
n21roadie
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1896
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:36 pm
Location: Limerick,Ireland

Re: SXT concentrator

Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:49 pm

>>>As far I as know no licence is required for private point to point wifi links.

Stop be private if ptp link are used for work...

But...

remember: To be "private" must start and stop on same property, and the signal must not walk over other private or public property over than your own...

If you cause interferences with some WISP, this law can be used versus you...
Define interference? Also WISP maybe also be using license exempt frequencies so is "interferences" really channel congestion?
N21roadie,
Network 100% MT for Now?
 
User avatar
rextended
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 2950
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:49 pm
Location: Capalbio, Tuscany, Italy

Re: SXT concentrator

Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:54 pm

>>>As far I as know no licence is required for private point to point wifi links.

Stop be private if ptp link are used for work...

But...

remember: To be "private" must start and stop on same property, and the signal must not walk over other private or public property over than your own...

If you cause interferences with some WISP, this law can be used versus you...
Define interference? Also WISP maybe also be using license exempt frequencies so is "interferences" really channel congestion?
If you are not authorized to transmit outside your own property, it's called interference, not congestion.
You can cause interference with WISP, not congestion, because you can interfere with authorized licensed WISP.

Only between authorized source can be congestion...

It's like transmit on police radio, you cause interference, because you are not police...
I'm Italian, not English. Sorry for my imperfect grammar.
 
n21roadie
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1896
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:36 pm
Location: Limerick,Ireland

Re: SXT concentrator

Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:06 am


You can cause interference with WISP, not congestion, because you can interfere with authorized licensed WISP.

It's like transmit on police radio, you cause interference, because you are not police, also if you transmit flawlessy...
But you will not cause interference when as mentioned in this post using SXT and even with licensed frequencies the installation company will request direct from local regulatory body the frequency which will be used, unless someone is stupid enough to purchase and use equipment that requires a licence and then the local regulatory body closes them down after responding to a complaint.
N21roadie,
Network 100% MT for Now?
 
User avatar
rextended
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 2950
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:49 pm
Location: Capalbio, Tuscany, Italy

Re: SXT concentrator

Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:24 am

Anyone can buy certified CE compilancy STX.

But the installer must install it following the regulatory rules of the Republic...

The symbol present on omologated SXT ----> (!) <---- means than you must follow rules to use it.
(the symbol are one circle with exlamation mark inside)

If you device are not locally CE (!) certified, you can not use it on any way....

And not only MikroTik devices, but ALL devices for ANY productor!!!

This is also why on the past (now all the complete devices have the certificate***) we can not buy directly the device from MikroTik, but we must purchase it by local distributor, and the distributor certify the device.
(Declaration of Conformity for European Country)

*** pre-assambled devices, like SXT, Sextant, OmniTik, QRT, metal, Groove, all boxed AP, etc. have CE Declaration of Conformity, but ALL the other, NOT.
Because if you assembly certified single pieces to obtain another product, must be subsequently re-certified.
For example, if you buy Certified 433AH and you add one or more module, like RB52Hn, and close it on one box, you must re-certify again the devices...
(yes is absurd...)


And about licensed frequency: near 5GHz are present transponder for airport and radar, I do not think you can obtain one licensed channel inside the supported range of frequences of one SXT...
I'm Italian, not English. Sorry for my imperfect grammar.
 
jaykay2342
Member
Member
Posts: 335
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:49 pm
Location: /Vigor/LocalGroup/Milky Way/Earth/Europe/Germany

Re: SXT concentrator

Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:18 pm

Are you guys noticing that you're all from different countries with different regulations? I think in most countries a WISP using frequencies which are available for everyone have to deal with the interference. As long as you stay below the maximal EIRP allowed for your country you should be fine. But please check the local regulations for what is allowed, otherwise fees can be really high.

But let me come back to the technical topic. I would suggest to use sector-antennas on the hub. Using NV2. With dual-chain you should be able to get >100Mbit/s on the air. So you might offer up-to 100Mbit/s and put multiple clients on one AP(with sector-antenna). How likely is it that they all demand 100M at the same time?

If you really want to provide granted 100M for a lot of customers wireless is not your solution. Got for fiber.
9-5 Job: Securityanalyst at a major MSSP.
Free time volunteer: Networkadmin and founder at a small non-profit WISP.
Certifications: ITILv3, GCIA
 
User avatar
azurtem
Trainer
Trainer
Topic Author
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 5:35 pm
Location: Nice, France
Contact:

Re: SXT concentrator

Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:57 pm

Thanks for your reply Jaykay

The local regulation is actually pretty clear: the 5470-5725 MHz
band is free (unlicensed) for outdoor use as long as DFS is enabled.

You're are right, the situation in which they'll all require 100Mbps
at the same time is pretty unlikely. It just makes sense to me that
if they signed on for 100Mbps, then 100Mbps is what I will do my
utmost to deliver.

Fiber links for business customers are pretty expensive here:
3000€ for the setup, and 1000€ per month for 50Mbps.

Is there any sector antenna that you would suggest ? I suppose
that I might require up to three of these if I need to cover 360°

Would an RB493 (or RB800) be powerful enough to handle
the traffic assuming I manage to take on 5 or 6 such links ?

I have a CCR1009 to handle the routing

yann
 
jaykay2342
Member
Member
Posts: 335
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:49 pm
Location: /Vigor/LocalGroup/Milky Way/Earth/Europe/Germany

Re: SXT concentrator

Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:23 pm

Thanks for your reply Jaykay

The local regulation is actually pretty clear: the 5470-5725 MHz
band is free (unlicensed) for outdoor use as long as DFS is enabled.

You're are right, the situation in which they'll all require 100Mbps
at the same time is pretty unlikely. It just makes sense to me that
if they signed on for 100Mbps, then 100Mbps is what I will do my
utmost to deliver.
No ISP on the world have the network-capacity to deliver 100% link utilization from all customers at the same time. Oversubscribing is ok. Problem is if you oversubscribe by 1000times like some ISP did in the past. Those ISPs now wonder that ppl actually use bandwidth they got. 5 Years ago consumers had almost the same average utilization with 2M link as with a 20M link. Website just loaded fast for the one with 20M and the line idled more time. But now with all the videostreaming services ppl start to used it more. But this is getting to much off-topic. In my opinion the best way is to test what's physical possible and then make a clear statement. Like if you got ~200M over the air to all the clients connected in the sector and you plan to have 5 customers there than sell it as up-to 100M with minimum 40M ( maybe better say 30 to have a bit space )
Fiber links for business customers are pretty expensive here:
3000€ for the setup, and 1000€ per month for 50Mbps.
That's the usual pricing (for business customers) in germany as well. Kindly ask: how much do you take for a 100M wireless link?
Is there any sector antenna that you would suggest ? I suppose
that I might require up to three of these if I need to cover 360°
You can do different setups like 3x 120° or 4x 90°. Even 6x 60° is possible. As you should not use the same channel on different sectors you might run out of free channels if you do more sectors. I've not so much experience with sector-antennas to make a good manufacture suggestion. I played with one from rf-elements a while ago. I would definitively go for MiMo H+V antennas.
Would an RB493 (or RB800) be powerful enough to handle
the traffic assuming I manage to take on 5 or 6 such links ?
I would not use one board for so many radios. Personally i would use a RB912 per sector. I don't know how your building/roof looks but it could be reasonable to put the antennas/APs on the etches of the roof. Having the systems all on one pole could give some problems with interference between your own systems. You can can low the risk of such problem by separate them on the roof.

I have a CCR1009 to handle the routing

yann
That's nice should be no problem to handle the traffic with the ccr
9-5 Job: Securityanalyst at a major MSSP.
Free time volunteer: Networkadmin and founder at a small non-profit WISP.
Certifications: ITILv3, GCIA
 
User avatar
azurtem
Trainer
Trainer
Topic Author
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 5:35 pm
Location: Nice, France
Contact:

Re: SXT concentrator

Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:50 am

Thanks again Jaykay for taking the time to respond in such a detailed manner

I'm thinking of charging 1€ per Mbps

yann
 
jarda
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 7602
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:46 pm

Re: SXT concentrator

Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:07 pm

Monthly? Good price for low speeds as backup link...
 
User avatar
azurtem
Trainer
Trainer
Topic Author
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 5:35 pm
Location: Nice, France
Contact:

Re: SXT concentrator

Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:54 pm

yes, monthly
 
jarda
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 7602
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:46 pm

Re: SXT concentrator

Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:59 pm

Bad that you are so far from me. Otherwise I would order some 1 Mbps links...
 
User avatar
azurtem
Trainer
Trainer
Topic Author
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 5:35 pm
Location: Nice, France
Contact:

Re: SXT concentrator

Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:02 pm

:]]

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: andriys, McSee and 172 guests