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CyberTod
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NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:04 pm

Hello a few hours ago I received my first two NetBox 5 (RB911G-5HPacD).
Let me share my results so far with them.

Both devices are close to default configuration at the moment. Both upgraded to v6.18 with latest firmware.

First test conditions :
Devices are in two different rooms separated by a wall with omni 1,5db antennas attached to them.
band : 5Ghz-only-ac
channel width : 20/40/80Mhz Ceee
protocol : 802.11

Test is done between the boards - not the perfect I know, but devices are currently in an office with 100mbit/s lan attached.
netbox5-802.11-idle.jpg
netbox5-802.11-send.jpg
netbox5-802.11-receive.jpg
Later today I will test with nstreme and nv2. In a few days this will be mounted in production - 8km link with rocket dishes.
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CyberTod
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:42 pm

2nd test everything is the same except :
protocol : nstreme
netbox5-nstreme-send.jpg
netbox5-nstreme-receive.jpg
I expected better throughput here, but it is worse than plain 802.11ac. Maybe I need to play with frequencies a bit.
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:45 pm

Test is done between the boards - not the perfect I know, but devices are currently in an office with 100mbit/s lan attached.
:lol:
Man, hang it on the outside, yet it does not make sense.
 
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CyberTod
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:58 pm

As I said in a few days the boards will be outside - 8km link. I will post that result too.

Better result, again 802.11, everything the same different frequency :
netbox5-802.11-send.jpg
Tested nv2 aswell, but the results are bad - the throughput is very unstable. I will not be doing anymore tests inside - with these antennas I cannot go more than 520Mbit/s wireless rate even though the signal is very good.
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Last edited by CyberTod on Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:01 pm

great, and on which antennas?
 
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CyberTod
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:05 pm

The antennas I have and will be using are RocketDish 5G-30 5GHz
 
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:57 am

The good choice could be mANT30 instead of Rocket Dish.

Cetalfio
 
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:07 am

Actually "ac" is supported only by 802.11.
Nstreme or NV2 are not optimized for this new protocol.
I'm Italian, not English. Sorry for my imperfect grammar.
 
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:08 am

The good choice could be mANT30 instead of Rocket Dish.

Cetalfio
It's the true, I have both, and mANT is more better made and have better performance.
I'm Italian, not English. Sorry for my imperfect grammar.
 
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CyberTod
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:15 am

Anyone tested with v6.19rc versions, any improvements there ?
I did another test with nv2 this morning, got better results, but still unstable throughput. With 802.11 I get very stable speed, but this is just a test, I am not sure that it will manage to stay low latency under thousands of connections.
 
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:17 pm

Anyone tested with v6.19rc versions, any improvements there ?
I did another test with nv2 this morning, got better results, but still unstable throughput. With 802.11 I get very stable speed, but this is just a test, I am not sure that it will manage to stay low latency under thousands of connections.
as seen in the wireless nothing changed in rc
What's new in 6.19rc12 (2014-Aug-21 11:53):

*) ippool - improve performance when acquiring address without preference;
*) partitions - copying partitions did not work on some boards;
*) bridge - added ~Auto Isolate~ stp enhancement (802.1q-2011, 13.25.5)
*) ipsec - when peer config is changed kill only relevant SAs;
*) vpls - do not abort BGP connection when receiving invalid 12 byte
nexthop encoding;
*) dns-update - fix zone update;
*) dhcpv4 server - support multiple radius address lists;
*) console - added unary operator 'any' that evaluates to true if argument
is not null or nothing value;
*) CCR - improved performance;
*) firewall - packet defragmenting will only happen with connection tracking enabled;
*) firewall - optimized option matching order with-in a rule;
*) firewall - rules that require CONNTRACK to work will now have Invalid flag when CONNTRACK is disabled;
*) firewall - rules that require use-ip-firewall to work will now have invalid flag when use-ip-firewall is disabled;
*) firewall - rules that have interface with ~Slave~ flag specified as in-/out-interface will now have Invalid flag;
*) firewall - rules that have interface without ~Slave~ flag specified as in-/out-bridge-port will now have Invalid flag;
*) firewall - rules with Invalid flags will now be auto-commented to explain why;
*) l2tp - force l2tp to not use MPPE encryption if IPsec is used;
*) sstp - force sstp to not use MPPE encryption (it already has TLS one);
 
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:49 am

latest RC release has further improvements for 802.11ac and nv2, please check with the new build
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:01 am

I have upgraded to v6.19rc12. The devices will be installed shortly at their location and I will post more results in real life application.
 
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:36 am

Hello,
Bellow are my tests, done with 2 RB SXT G-5HPacD v6.18 with wireless-fp in ptp mode (configured via quickset as wds bridge)

Devices are installed on towers (1 - 50 m height, other - 45m, perfect LOS, distance -between them 0,85 km)

Tests was done from AP side, because it is connected via fiber.

Tests was done with btest. I have tested with limited speed to 200 Mbit send/receive/both.

This is freq usage picture from ap side: (strange is that AP is crashing on frequency scaning mode...probably bug?)
freq.test.png

So i did tests on several frequencies, to be sure, that there is no influence from other links and superchannel mode.

1. The frequency 5045 Mhz (superchannel) was selected due to noisy environment.

Continue reading...
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:38 am

Tests for NV2 protocol
1a - protocol nv2

transfer to station
nv2-send.png
receiption from station
nv2-receive.png
Duplex rate to station
nv2-both-200.200.png
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zyzelis
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:50 am

I have noticed, that there is no possibility to get 200Mbits full duplex from this link,
so i have reduced rx rate to 100Mbit.
nv2-both-200.100.png
IMO there is problem with radio link, not cpu limitation.
And what the hell? to what to believe when measuring cpu load ? tool profile, or to winbox resources window???

Next tests with Nstreme (enabled polling, framer policy - best fit, framer limit - 4000)

TX
nstreme-send.png
RX
nstreme-receive.png
Note! this test was succsessful only from 3rd hit, first ones was ended with station disconnection

Next ----- duplex on nstreme
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:53 am

zyzelis what are the conditions of the link?
CyberTod did you already install the 8km link ?
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:03 am

Duplex 200/200 Mbits
nstreme-both-200-200.png
after crashes works, but poor and without response to pings from station

Here is Duplex 200/100 Mbits
nstreme-both-200-100.png
Quick note:
Only possible way to get results is before aplying "both" test, is to start one way tests (first receive and after send or vice versa)
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:04 am

zyzelis what are the conditions of the link?
CyberTod did you already install the 8km link ?
Normis what do you mean "conditions"?
i wrote abow 3 posts what are conditions...
Do you need some additional info?
Last edited by zyzelis on Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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normis
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:05 am

zyzelis what are the conditions of the link?
CyberTod did you already install the 8km link ?
Normis what do you mean "conditions"?
i wrote before 3 posts what are conditions...
Do you need some additional info?
sorry, I missed that post. Now I see
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:07 am

I have installed 1 of the devices. Waiting for the team to install the other one in about 30min. It is more like 9-10km actually.
 
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:13 am

Next 802.11 tests on 5045 Mhz frequency

Transfer to station
802.11-send.png
Receiption from station
802.11-receive.png
And....
both 200/200Mbits
802.11-both-200-200.png
Quick note:
very stable one way throughput on both directions and unusable duplex.


Next - > 802.115045 duplex 200/100
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zyzelis
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:18 am

Ok, duplex 200/100.
802.11-both-200-100.png
Same story - btest not runs if pressed directly, without preparing with one way tests.
Probably needed some time for ROS to change Coding rates.

By the way, where is MCS rates in registration/signal tab? now only legacy A.
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:38 am

Next.
Now i picked up standard conditions:
frequency mode - regulatory domain
country - Lithuania

Band scan with scanner:
rd-scanner.png
frequency usage tool still crashing AP, but i got partial view:
rd-freg.usage.png
According to situation i selected 5620Mhz frequency.
rd-5620.png
VERY IMPORTANT Note - the signal strenght is much better than on 5045MHZ.
Next - > signal strength on superchannel 4960Mhz
Why? Bug?

lets check signal quality on 4960 Mhz
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:04 pm

Just installed both Netboxes.
Distance - around 9km, the signal was too strong - around -38dBm
I lowered the output power to 10dBm, here is the result :
netbox5-nstreme-10km.jpg
I don't know why the ccq is low. The frequency is exactly the same as I have used previously on that link.
Starting to do some tests, but as it is production now maybe I will be slow with tests, maybe even this night more serious testing.
I am using nstreme at the moment and if it doesnt disconnect I will stay on it - i prever the lower latency and jitter over nv2.
But I will post tests with nv2 too.
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zyzelis
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:12 pm

Yep,

signal on 4960Mhz dropped to ~62db
4960.png
And as expected, btest shows worse results (with 802.11 protocol)
4960-btest.png


So question is: its a bug in ROS, or Antenna gain limitation in given frequency?


Probably another bug in ROS v6.18
if settings are superchannel/no_country_set/scan-list=4900-6100 and frequency set to auto,
AP becomes to station (ie on status -> AP searching for networks and after scanning whole band it returns to ap mode)
The same was noticed and manual_tx_power/no_country_set/scan-list=default and frequency set to auto

Normis its a bug, or expected behavior?
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:14 pm

Sorry CyberTod for occupied your post :)
Try to play around frequencies..

Next my post - tests on 5620/regulatory domain/lithuania
Z
 
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:15 pm

all antennas have better performance in certain frequency. look at the antenna dbi/frequency chart

the best gain is around 54xx

http://i.mt.lv/routerboard/files/sxt-patterns.pdf
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:27 pm

I used the same frequency as before, because this is a running link, just swapping Rocket M5 for Netbox5.
I changed frequency now, but only with 20Mhz, it's a bit better

protocol : nv2, auto timing
band : 5Ghz A/N/AC
netbox-nv2-traffic-10km.jpg
This is both real traffic and btest running. Still needs more tuning. It was 260Mbit/s max.
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:31 pm

Here are tests for 5620Mhz@802.11

TX
5620-802.11-send.png
RX
5620-802.11-receive.png
And both
5620-802.11-both.100.100.png
As you can see, test was unsuccessfull on 200/200 Mbits and even on 100/100
results was unacceptable.
besides take a look to btest results and wireless card speed results.
Bug?

Next - > Nstreme results
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:32 pm

You need to find the best combination between antenna "sweet spot" and yet furthest away from used frequencies.

check antenna patterns and frequency usage chart
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:34 pm

all antennas have better performance in certain frequency. look at the antenna dbi/frequency chart

the best gain is around 54xx

http://i.mt.lv/routerboard/files/sxt-patterns.pdf
Sorry Normis,
Missing measuring unit on ordinate axis, so it can't be readable properly

I was searched in broshures declared supported freq's, so thats way you fixed them :)
Z
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:35 pm

supported they are, but max gain is only in certain frequencies. you can use 4900, but it will work good only on closer range. this is a tradeoff, low gain or high noise :) the art of wireless
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:44 pm

Nstreme@5620

TX:
5620-802.11-send.png
RX:
5620-nstreme-receive.png
And both:
5620-nstreme-both.png

All results was worse than 802.11

Next -> NV2@5620
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:53 pm

Results from tests nv@5620

TX
5620-nv2-send.png
RX
5620-nv2-receive.png
And both
5620-nv2-both.png
I just checked, that nv tdma timing was set to auto in both test situations

Conclusions - absolutely unusable link @5620Mhz

Next - nv2 test@ higer frequency
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:08 pm

Now tests nv2@5960

freq usage - as usual - crashing device,
snapshot:
5960.freq.usage.png
Test results
TX
5960-nv2-send.png
RX
5960-nv2-receive.png
I have no tested both, because even rx receive not showing good results.

Now i am going to test 6.19rc
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:35 pm

I have tested link with 6.19rc13
nope, no changes, but there is surprise :)

after upgrade Somehow was created traffic, which flowing via bridge and wlan. It can be stopped only by disabling wlan
interface.
loop.png
Normis, it is related to 6.19rc bridge loop protection enchancements? :)
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:40 pm

The topic got a little crowded. This is my best result (real traffic + btest between the boards):
netbox-nv2-traffic-10km.jpg
Which is not bad as it serves more than enough for my current needs. The rate can not go higher than 650Mbps for some reason even with this good signal -55 (tx-power : 9dBm)
A few problems though :
The only usable protocol is nv2 - it gives me the highest throughput with a stable latency, but if the usage on the link is high there is a small packet loss visible on smokeping (discussed also in another topic).
I really want to use nstreme - lower latency, less jitter, zero packet loss - perfect for ptp. But with .ac cards i get very low throughput. I barely get 100Mbit/s (compared to 250-300Mbit/s nv2) with everyhing else the same - just change nv2 to nstreme. I guess not optimized. I really hope mikrotik team work on that protocol, they don't mention it in changelogs and I hope they still work/improve on it.
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:23 pm

Hi CyberTod was 20/40/80Mhz Ceee too unstable on 802.11 mode ? I haven't messed around with RoS 6.x NV2 too much in the past as I found the random latency unbearable as I deal with a lot of SIP being transferred between sites.

I have a link I have to add to a sister company and hopefully picking up a NetBox5 + mAnt30 next week to start testing.
 
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:45 pm

802.11 was performing very good in the office when I just ran bandwidth test. There is a post somewhere above with 300Mbit/s stable and the latency was 10-15ms with normal amount of jitter. But when I installed the link in real conditions (lots of connections and noise) it was not good - a lot of jitter and unstable latency even without pushing so many traffic.
 
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:25 am

interesting to see how hard its to get 256qam datarates
 
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:34 pm

Did you try with wireless fp-package??? And the config to allow fast path on wireless, o by the way i noted that you used frecuency scan to get the frecuency of use, the dude have a spectral scan tool that help a lot, maybe you can use instead of frecuency scan from winbox
It will give you a better idea where to put your 80mhz bandwidth. Sorry for my english.

BR
 
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:36 pm

Did you try with wireless fp-package??? And the config to allow fast path on wireless, o by the way i noted that you used frecuency scan to get the frecuency of use, the dude have a spectral scan tool that help a lot, maybe you can use instead of frecuency scan from winbox
It will give you a better idea where to put your 80mhz bandwidth. Sorry for my english.

BR
802.11ac only works with wireless-fp, there is no other way to use it.
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:39 am

Oh thats a nice point
 
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:12 am

who stocks these new AC units in USA?
Colo and Wholesale Bandwidth Available! Sales at SanDiegoBroadband dot com
 
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:49 am

Yeah, I would like to know also
 
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:18 pm

Tom at ROC-NOC
http://www.roc-noc.com
He had a lot of stock on the new AC equipment last week.
Rockford, Illinois
 
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:11 am

CyberTod,
any news about your test link?
maybe you found good working config?
 
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:14 am

The best that I achieved is the last I posted. Around 300mbit/s :
nv2, 80Mhz clear channel, almost everything else at default.
I'm not making changes anymore to do tests because it is in production for a week.
 
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:59 am

The best that I achieved is the last I posted. Around 300mbit/s :
nv2, 80Mhz clear channel, almost everything else at default.
I'm not making changes anymore to do tests because it is in production for a week.

And how this link looks? No hangs? no drops? no siurprises?

PS. Today i have tested another link (but conditions are close to earlier), so my best result is 100/100 TCP on 802.11
Z.
 
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CyberTod
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:02 pm

It works well. The speed and latency are stable, but my real traffic is not more than 150Mbit/s.
I had a few kernel failures on the station side, sent a ticket, but so far support did not find something wrong.
 
ste
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:14 pm

It works well. The speed and latency are stable, but my real traffic is not more than 150Mbit/s.
I had a few kernel failures on the station side, sent a ticket, but so far support did not find something wrong.
We had a kernel failure on a SXT AC SA. Sent supout.rif. Now it runs for 6 days.
So maybe hard to find.
 
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CyberTod
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:20 pm

I guess it happens very rarely. At least I am not the only one, because support suggested it could be hardware, but I doubt it - I have boards with hardware problems, but they just reboot and the message in log is only "reboot without proper shutdown". The most recent time i had "kernel failure" was on v6.15 and it was fixed in next version and again it happened only on nv2 links on the station side.
 
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:36 pm

I guess it happens very rarely. At least I am not the only one, because support suggested it could be hardware, but I doubt it - I have boards with hardware problems, but they just reboot and the message in log is only "reboot without proper shutdown". The most recent time i had "kernel failure" was on v6.15 and it was fixed in next version and again it happened only on nv2 links on the station side.
How you configured link?
as wds bridge?

Did you noticed, that NV2 eats cpu more than plain 802.11??
eg. under no load cpu usage with NV2 shows abou 10-12%, when with plain 802.11 only 1%
 
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CyberTod
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:25 pm

First i configured it as station-bridge, but then changed to station-wds to see if that may be causing the kernel failure.
I know that nv2 eats more cpu and that is expected, because the tdma part is done in software. The cpu load with my traffic varies 30-40%. 802.11 in situation with many packets has high and unstable latency.
 
ste
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:50 pm

Today another sxt ac hangs and needed a powercycle. Plugged in a 750up now for remote power reset.
 
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sergejs
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:45 pm

ste,
Please provide us with support output file (support@mikrotik.com). As well provide us with more information about the issue and what happened.
 
syadnom
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:18 am

Any update now that 6.19 is released?
What's new in 6.19 (2014-Aug-26 14:05):

*) wireless - improvements for nv2 and 802.11a
I'm wondering if nstreme is good now. I prefer nstreme over nv2 for ptp for low latency.
 
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:08 am

The good choice could be mANT30 instead of Rocket Dish.

Cetalfio
It's the true, I have both, and mANT is more better made and have better performance.
Now this is interesting... I am not a fan of ubnt, so would indeed cheer if it can be proven that mANT30 is better than Rocket Dish. But can we see some real test results? Because opinions based upon some wistful thinking are no good to no one. But if you can show us that these antennas really perform better (show us the differences) I am not to shy to link to this test whenever appropriate just to show that ubnt is not as good a brand as they do want to make people believe.... ("carrier grade" :lol: )
Show your appreciation of this post by giving me Karma! Thanks.

Rudy R. Puister

WISP operator based on MT routerboard & ROS.
 
syadnom
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:17 am

The good choice could be mANT30 instead of Rocket Dish.

Cetalfio
It's the true, I have both, and mANT is more better made and have better performance.
Now this is interesting... I am not a fan of ubnt, so would indeed cheer if it can be proven that mANT30 is better than Rocket Dish. But can we see some real test results? Because opinions based upon some wistful thinking are no good to no one. But if you can show us that these antennas really perform better (show us the differences) I am not to shy to link to this test whenever appropriate just to show that ubnt is not as good a brand as they do want to make people believe.... ("carrier grade" :lol: )
I'm not hateful of ubnt myself, I like their M series APs and CPE quite a lot and am pretty happy with them. I have had great luck with the RocketDish30. That said, nstreme is superior IMHO to airmax for ptp links and I like the idea of a NetMetal5 w/ mANT30 if they are indeed superior to a RocketAC-Lite (or upcoming RocketAC) + RocketDishAC or RocketDish30. Sometimes I feel that I'm 1-2dBm short of advertised gain on the RocketDish and I suspect the feed horn isn't as good as it could be.
 
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:31 pm

Here are the latest results from me:
Link distance 46 km.
Antenna - 140 cm parabolic dish - double pol.
Cable leght 2x4 m
2x RB921UAGS-5SHPacD
and very noisy environment
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
 
mapunda
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:30 am

What is this Antenna - 140 cm parabolic dish - double pol (Manufacturer)
 
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:02 pm

What is this Antenna - 140 cm parabolic dish - double pol (Manufacturer)
I'm also interested :shock:
 
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Re: NetBox 5 lab / reallife results

Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:49 am

Did anyone ever figure out what dish us being used?
 
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Re: NetBox 5 lab

Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:35 pm

i have NetBox 5 (RB911G-5HPacD i can't select channel when i going to select channel than show error can't select chennel please wireless info ..no highlighted any channel

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