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The Dude IS Dead, really, isn't it?

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:55 am
by chimaster
Hi Team,

I've been a big fan of the Dude since I started using Mikrotik in 2006 ( or 4, I can't recall!). Anyways, It's a great package and does wonderful things and I still think there isn't much out there that compares for simplicity when managing basic network documentation and information. When it was announced for Dude that the reports of his death have been greatly exaggerated, I was 1 day away from packing up my 5000 devices and moving them to NetXMS

I was excited. About bloody time. Woo Hoo. Lets go Dudes!

Now.. 3 Years later, trawling through the release notes I see no major headway on anything Dude related within the Change logs. I see no implementation of new features or enhancements and little to give comfort that any real development is happening behind closed doors. There are so many fantastic things the Dude can do, could do and would do with the right love.

Please, someone, where is the Dude?
Where are his friends?
Are you leaving the Dude behind? No Dude should be left behind.

As I do every 3 years or so it seems, I'm loosing hope. I'm going to have to bring those not too old demos of NetXMS and Nagios XI back to life, upgrade them and look at moving away. For 12 Years I've loved your Dude. I've loved him so much and now my heart is broken because the Dude is stale and abandoned. The Dude could be one of the biggest draw cards to Mikrotik and only needs a minor enhancement or feature every release or so to give us confidence.

Make the Maps Stable and stop disappearing.
Integrate Google Maps or Open Street Maps and Lat / Long to devices
Make graphs reliable
Build some auto device backup scripts
Build in an auto backup feature for the dude itself
Add a scheduler
Create some user permissions and per map / device type permissions
Integrate API 3 and bulk updates / scripting
Create an asset register and enhance the database
Hell, throw in some ACS

Steal the thunder from Ubiquiti and UNMS and other tools which are actively developed but still lack the simple wonderlust that your dude creates amongst it's users.
Just a few tweaks here and there every release and you'll keep the hordes of Dudes (and ladies) who love your Dude happy. And who knows what a million happy Dudes could do for you?

How about a little confidence boost that there is active development?

Otherwise, this dude is going to abandon the dude too. :(

(And that sound so narcissistic, but it's not, it's just reality. I've told you before and I'll tell you again, you've got a great Dude, but he's loosing his sex appeal and developing a middle age spread that you won't be able to escape unless you love him.)

Re: The Dude IS Dead, really, isn't it?

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:37 am
by turnip
Biggest problem I had with the Dude is that I'd upgrade a router and it'd stop working. If my router doesn't survive an upgrade, I can fix it straight away. If my client's router doesn't survive an upgrade, I have to go and see them and they're not going to be happy. If I upgrade them all at the same time, I risk having a very bad day. Why can't a dude agent continue to monitor a router of an earlier software version?

Re: The Dude IS Dead, really, isn't it?

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:04 pm
by yonnie
Dude broke the network and had to stop using it. It was causing an interrupt about every 2 minutes which brought 80 users to their knees and not a religious experience I'd like to repeat! Am phasing out all Mikrotik devices from the networks as they don't seem interested in maintaining their firmware in addressing ancient issues.

Re: The Dude IS Dead, really, isn't it?

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:16 pm
by eddieb
Too bad to read only negative experiances here.

I run dude 6.43.8 on CHR in VM .
It does what it has to do, runs for a couple of years now, updated with every release.
Sometimes a manual vacuumdb is neccesary to get snmp counters running after an update.
No further problems seen here,
great functionality for great money (read=free)

Re: The Dude IS Dead, really, isn't it?

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:29 pm
by neutronlaser
Child's project made by child's company.

Re: The Dude IS Dead, really, isn't it?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:55 pm
by excession
Please, someone, where is the Dude?
Amen; let 2019 be the year of our Dude..

Re: The Dude IS Dead, really, isn't it?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:21 pm
by benjamimgois
Yeah... i suffer from the same problem. I also made the last petition to bring it´s development back, i don´t know if it motivates the version 6.0..... but i´m loosing hope again. Dude is really an awesome piece of software that is starting to show it´s age. It would be nice if it could have an modern HTML5 interface and better backp features. Really hope that mikrotik answer this post, but i dont think it will.

Re: The Dude IS Dead, really, isn't it?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:56 am
by chimaster
Sadly. No reply from Mikrotik. Hello Mikrotik. Give me confidence in the Dude! please!

It could be so much! We've started developing our own reporting via the API, API integration would be fantastic.. At the very least, share your plans with us... we're starting to drop off :(

Re: The Dude IS Dead, really, isn't it?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:58 pm
by benjamimgois
yeah, it would be nice if we could create a new project inspired by dude as an opensource. This way we wouldn't be dependent of mikrotik will to develop the software. Maybe a kickstarter projetct to fund it.

Re: The Dude IS Dead, really, isn't it?

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:54 pm
by jmay
I wish someone would build a decent cheap program that works with all kinds of hardware. Right now I've got Dude for infrastructure, Zabbix for Access Points and Customer SM's, and a whole host of various methods to update software on all this stuff.

I can't be the only one with lots of competing gear a cheap boss that won't spend money on a nice system for us to monitor with.

Re: The Dude IS Dead, really, isn't it?

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:16 pm
by chimaster
We've started our own application using the APIv3 to do a run of queries and expected responses and reports from our devices Proactive monitoring and reporting with Threat detection (checking for changes in file system or scheduling / ports / services) as a result of being changed by third parties... Once we get a decent base that ticks a bunch of our boxes we may consider opening this up for further development if there is enough interest.

We currently run...

Unifi
Unms
Dude
Netflow
cnMaestro
Smokeping
and a couple of other little scripts.

It's becoming a management nightmare. The fast pace of UNMS development from Ubiquiti is pushing us towards their AP's, if they integrate Unifi and UNMS we'll be even closer to dropping dude and Mikrotik beyond the border. UNMS has been bringing in external device monitoring via SNMP. Whilst still only beta we're seeing a release every month or two with Major enhancements.

I think Mikrotik should be getting development cranking in Dude. integrate API, cAPsMAN and so forth.. I've got 560 Pico Stations to replace this year. I'm probably going to use Ubiquiti, but we've been experimenting with the mANTbox which we like for our requirements. But centralised management is leaning towards UNMS just based on the updates and active production even though we struggle with their Antenna selection.

We'll keep using Mikrotik at the border, but we've got 5000 AP's. 560 need to be replaced this year to get upgraded (excluding any new builds) and the active development of a Mikrotik competitor is pulling us in...

Have attached the same site in UNMS vs Dude. Trimmed some important details out but you'll get the gist. So do we pull all the Ubiquiti out and struggle with managing it in the dude or do we keep it all Ubiquiti and only have one Mikrotik at the Perimeter using SNMP for monitoring in conjunction with our own API scripts.

And I think... That is where Mikrotik are missing the point. If you have a good solid management tool that supports your products, is actively developed and is making your clients lives easier.. Then you're locking your clients into your hardware and software. If you leave it and ignore it, then we all start to consider other options that make our lives easier and happier because really, if you're not doing that, then ... what's the point?

Re: The Dude IS Dead, really, isn't it?

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:43 am
by dasvos
yeah, it would be nice if we could create a new project inspired by dude as an opensource. This way we wouldn't be dependent of mikrotik will to develop the software. Maybe a kickstarter projetct to fund it.
Something that big as open source? Yeah, not going to happen. The industry is flooded with not so free monitoring solutions, expecting their capabilities and more in an open source project will never work.

Re: The Dude IS Dead, really, isn't it?

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:09 am
by vecernik87
Something that big as open source? ...
"that big" ?? Cmon, it is NOT that big. Server does not do anything else than scheduling and sending packets based on DB entries. Client does not do anything else than visualizing the DB.
What I admire is the simple and configurable approach, which is missed by most of other tools. What seems to be big thing is just nice lightweight data-driven app.
.. The industry is flooded with not so free monitoring solutions, expecting their capabilities and more in an open source project will never work. ...
And we won't need more than 640kB or memory...
If you said 30 years ago, that there will be open source operating system used on majority of devices on earth, people would laugh at you. Today, Linux is everywhere...

Re: The Dude IS Dead, really, isn't it?

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:24 am
by tikplus
yeah, it would be nice if we could create a new project inspired by dude as an opensource. This way we wouldn't be dependent of mikrotik will to develop the software. Maybe a kickstarter projetct to fund it.
Dude is now opensource ???!

Re: The Dude IS Dead, really, isn't it?

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:39 pm
by benjamimgois
yeah, it would be nice if we could create a new project inspired by dude as an opensource. This way we wouldn't be dependent of mikrotik will to develop the software. Maybe a kickstarter projetct to fund it.
Something that big as open source? Yeah, not going to happen. The industry is flooded with not so free monitoring solutions, expecting their capabilities and more in an open source project will never work.
I disagree, there´s a lot more complex opensource software out there. Even monitoring tools like Zabbix and cacti aren´t that different in terms of complexity.

Re: The Dude IS Dead, really, isn't it?

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:53 am
by chimaster
An update for anyone interested.

I've just spent the last few weeks testing several different NMS packages. From licensed to free.

Zabbix was a close contender, Solarwinds was simply outside of our price range. We've decided on NetXMS.

NetXMS has ticked serveral major boxes for us. It may of easily been Zabbix if it had Geomapping, but now that i'm digging ever deeper into the NetXMS hole I'm seeing so much more information and organisation (something we've missed for a long time) compared to the Dude. The Dude could do a lot of these tasks, but just wasn't as functional and reliable (holding onto Data, Charges, MAPS etc..) as what we're seeing from Zabbix.

Happy to share my experience if you message me.

Re: The Dude IS Dead, really, isn't it?

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:46 pm
by Sob
What I admire is the simple and configurable approach, which is missed by most of other tools.
Every now and then, once or twice a year, I try to find some replacement for Dude, because as much as I like it, it really is kind of dead (ok, zombie, it still moves, but doesn't improve). And every single time, the conclusion is, "well, maybe next time".

It may be just me, but Dude's approach is so beautifully simple and intuitive that nothing else comes close. It of course depends on what exactly you need it for, in my case it's smallish local networks, with some servers, few routers, some 50-100 devices at most. Dude's map as center point is just perfect for that. Visualization in other products always feels like an afterthought, just a bonus, something not really important. And everything is always so convoluted. I feel really stupid, but it's not uncommon to install something to test and find myself an hour later struggling to add even a simplest probe. It's usually those products where in screenhots section they proudly show how they can monitor London, Paris and New York at the same time. Sometimes I'm so desperate that I even try to read a manual, which is something I otherwise almost never do, because I just naturally get most of computer stuff. And often even that doesn't help. I must be specifically impaired when it comes to monitoring software, I don't have any better explanation.

In short, it's really sad that Dude doesn't move forward. It doesn't need much. IPv6 support should be basic feature in 2019, management of notifications could be more user friendly, supported way how to export maps as images would be nice, option to automatically un-ack devices would help too, ... and that's almost it for me. Oh and functions editor that doesn't check syntax, that's also not great.

For bonus points (I understand that this could be a lot of work, but anyway), if there was a way how to include ready to use probes for as much standard services as possible (you know, I can't be the only person who'd like to monitor e.g. sql server a little more than just by checking for open port), I'd probably die from joy. Or some tools to help with creating specific probes, because again, if I want to monitor e.g. free space on disk D: in Windows server, I can't be the only one who had this idea. Current Dude can do it, but something a little more straightforward than manually digging through snmp oids would make life much more easier.

Re: The Dude IS Dead, really, isn't it?

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:36 pm
by chimaster
That's been my issue too. The simplicity and visual appearance of the Dude has always been a strong draw card. The ability to pick it up and do the basics immediately is great and really, with a little more time, custom probes and graphs aren't too far away.

With our dude we've been plagued with dropping graphs, so we no longer graph
Dropping Background images, so we have stopped updating them
We haven't had a database crash yet, but I had issues migrating the Database to a more powerful server and ended up giving up.

Not to mention lacking ANY development and some important features like per user permissions, geo mapping, multiple interface links (link display tidied up). No templating (yes, can do by device type but difficult with multiple devices doing the same thing and wanting to monitor the same way)..

After about 20 hours of NetXMS on a couple of test sites, we're starting to dig into alerting and templated dashboards as well as build on the image and rack mapping.

I still "prefer" the dude, but It's not healthy for us to continue our relationship.

NetXMS is really starting to tick some boxes for us and the Dashboards are very very useful.

Re: The Dude IS Dead, really, isn't it?

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:51 pm
by maxkrok
Why nobody from Mikrotik team answers here? It is a kind of disgrace...

Re: The Dude IS Dead, really, isn't it?

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:26 pm
by benjamimgois
Why nobody from Mikrotik team answers here? It is a kind of disgrace...
I think they have nothing to say about it... I make the last petition 3 years ago to bring the dude back to life or release it´s source code.

https://www.change.org/p/mikrotik-relea ... ource-code

Maybe we could do it again.

Re: The Dude IS Dead, really, isn't it?

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:54 pm
by Sob
You mean repeat the previous victory?
dude-petition.png
Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;)

IMHO any petition like this is pointless. If you'd told people to name some opensource-friendly companies, I don't think MikroTik would be among them. And in case it's exclusively their code, which Dude probably is, there's nothing wrong with keeping it to themselves.

Second reason, unless you're prepared to lead the open source community yourself and invest significant time and resources into it, it's a bit naive to expect that MikroTik opens the source and something happens. Call me pessimist, but I'd expect few short-lived forks and that would be it. I really like Dude's approach, I think it's in some sense unique, but it's no rocket science. If there would be enough people interested in doing this, they could relatively easily make that from scratch. Or at least partially, e.g. build Dude-like interface over Nagios or something.

Last, and it's hard to say without sounding like I'm insinuating something bad, who knows how the code looks like, i.e. if someone else would be able to do anything useful with it. It doesn't have to be bad, even some unique style can be a problem.

I think we can only hope that one day MikroTik realizes how great idea Dude was and make it even better.

Re: The Dude IS Dead, really, isn't it?

Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:26 am
by NathanA
Last, and it's hard to say without sounding like I'm insinuating something bad, who knows how the code looks like, i.e. if someone else would be able to do anything useful with it. It doesn't have to be bad, even some unique style can be a problem.
`
I think the biggest roadblock to making Dude open-source is that as it stands, it has a high degree of dependency on many other libraries and chunks of code that a lot of MikroTik software holds in common; for example, their homegrown Windows GUI toolkit, the Winbox protocol, and their proprietary file data formats (which are tied to/related to the Winbox protocol). Even if they lost interest in The Dude and were willing to entertain the idea of open-sourcing it, MikroTik isn't going to open-source all of those other pieces just for the sake of releasing The Dude's source, so large chunks of things would have to be re-engineered and re-written (especially new network protocols and file formats, which would also necessitate some sort of migration/conversion strategy for people with current Dude databases), which would not be cheap / cost many man-hours. And what would MT get out of it?

-- Nathan

Re: The Dude IS Dead, really, isn't it?

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:51 pm
by knuckle66
chimaster, can netxms push out scripts to the microtiks?

Re: The Dude IS Dead, really, isn't it?

Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:07 am
by geoffsmith31
I am in the same situation as @ChiMaster. My organisation is aware that The Dude is a critical tool for us and it is no longer being supported. We "may" have a project next year to move to an alternative and the first stage will be to investigate possible alternatives. If/When the time comes, I'll be looking for firsthand experience of alternatives such as NetXMS. Hopefully I'll remember to come back here and try to contact you. BTW Queenstown - NZ or TAS (or some other Queenstown???)

Re: The Dude IS Dead, really, isn't it?

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 2:17 pm
by RackKing
An update for anyone interested.

I've just spent the last few weeks testing several different NMS packages. From licensed to free.

Zabbix was a close contender, Solarwinds was simply outside of our price range. We've decided on NetXMS.

NetXMS has ticked serveral major boxes for us. It may of easily been Zabbix if it had Geomapping, but now that i'm digging ever deeper into the NetXMS hole I'm seeing so much more information and organisation (something we've missed for a long time) compared to the Dude. The Dude could do a lot of these tasks, but just wasn't as functional and reliable (holding onto Data, Charges, MAPS etc..) as what we're seeing from Zabbix.

Happy to share my experience if you message me.
Hi, I am in the same position as you and making a move soon. I was wondering how you are getting along with NetXMS? Have you changed your mind since making the move? I am not sure how to message you directly to get more info.

Re: The Dude IS Dead, really, isn't it?

Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 3:41 pm
by terintamel
I sent a ticket to Mtik support about some issues I had with Dude client. Here is the most important section in their reply.

We will check what we can do about it when we will get back to active Dude development, currently, it's delayed because of other priorities.

Re: The Dude IS Dead, really, isn't it?

Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 4:52 pm
by huntermic
Sounds like more effort goes into ROS V7 for the moment
I sent a ticket to Mtik support about some issues I had with Dude client. Here is the most important section in their reply.

We will check what we can do about it when we will get back to active Dude development, currently, it's delayed because of other priorities.

Re: The Dude IS Dead, really, isn't it?

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:28 am
by lebowski
nedi

Re: The Dude IS Dead, really, isn't it?

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:33 am
by chimaster
Hi, I am in the same position as you and making a move soon. I was wondering how you are getting along with NetXMS? Have you changed your mind since making the move? I am not sure how to message you directly to get more info.
[/quote]

NetXMS, we've got 4 test sites loaded, we've booked some one on one time with their team to get through some usage issues (mostly us I'd say at this point).

I'm still Dude locked for the moment. It will be a hard transition, i'm hoping with a bit of one on one time we'll get pointed in the right direction. Currently templating and importing all Mikrotik / Ubiquiti Devices and assigning the correct monitoring templates. Quite nice, collecting a heck of data and working out the best way to use it.

Re: The Dude IS Dead, really, isn't it?

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:48 pm
by millenium7
NetXMS is IMO the very best 'free' platform out there, by quite a long margin.
But its the best 'theoretically'
That's the problem with it. It's not the best out of the box, it actually is really difficult to get it to do some pretty basic things like 'just start monitoring bandwidth on all interfaces in my network'. This should be simple. And honestly, it is fairly simple if you do it manually. But then trying to do anything more complicated like automatically adding nodes and monitoring all their interfaces, then get notification warnings about things, monitor temperatures/cpu/ram etc is way more complicated than it should be without much documentation to help you get there. There is documentation on each feature, but not how to just get it all to work and to make your life easy. Instead your life becomes really hard trying to figure it all out

It's a bit of a shame because there is a huge amount of power in NetXMS. For instance once it is setup you can very easily (only easy if you know, very very hard if you don't) write some compliance templates and check your entire network instantly for any devices which don't meet that compliance. I.e.
- Show all firmware versions of all devices / all mikrotik / all radio's / all switches etc
- Find all interfaces in the entire network that are reporting as half-duplex
- Find all interfaces that have changed from gigabit to 100mbit
- Show in 1 screen the CPU usage, RAM usage, Temperature of every device in my network
- Find every PTP wireless link that has degraded by 5db or more from baseline RSSI
etc etc
But it all requires scripting and a lot of knowledge of the product to get it to work. What they really need are a few wiki pages or guides that show you "here's a bunch of useful practical things you can do with NetXMS, we'll show you how to set it up". Not just "here's what this command does"

I'm not an expert with it but I have persisted with NetXMS for a while and have learned how to do a lot of things. I am thinking of making a video series going through how to set some of these things up from scratch and help you turn it into an extremely useful tool instead of just a potentially useful tool

Re: The Dude IS Dead, really, isn't it?

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:41 pm
by GregW
Have you looked at Check_MK (https://checkmk.com) ?