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normis
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Long range wireless links - share your experience

Fri Apr 12, 2024 9:49 am

Is anyone here installing long range (30KM+) MikroTik wifi based links? If you are, share your setup, pictures are very welcome. Tower height, distance, which equipment you used. The longer, the better, let's see the most impressive setups.

To make it more fun, everyone with photos will get MikroTik merch coupons (verification will be needed that this is actually link run or installed by yourself).
 
quackyo
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:53 pm

I have run a link for 2km+500m for quite a few years now, consisting of 2+2 dynadish.
The goal was to provide internet to a public hut in the forest.

Both "isp" and the hut have clear line of sight to a big radio mast I got access to. So the link is going to that mast, with a netpower to provide connectivity and POE to the dishes.

It has been rock stable, except for a PSU failure (probably lightning) destroying both dishes AND the switch. Now I have backup equipment.
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Rox169
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Fri Apr 12, 2024 2:43 pm

What is the maximum throughput?
 
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andrewhi
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Fri Apr 12, 2024 5:11 pm

height: 3M
distance:4km
Antenna: LGH5
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sirbryan
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Sun Apr 14, 2024 12:24 am

He said 30km or longer, guys.

I had a pair of dual-band LHG XL's at 32km, from the valley floor to a mountain top, but both the 5GHz and 2.4GHz links were pretty weak and we only got about 10-20Mbps out of it after maxing everything that we could (for US region). I don't think the noise floor helped (lots of WiFi around the valley).
 
maurool
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Sun Apr 14, 2024 2:27 am

41 Km here!

RB912UAG-5HPnD on one side, NetMetal 5 on the other side. mANT30 with radome, NV2. ~ 100megabit link. One side is on a church at 340m asl, other side is on a 30m tower at 0m asl.
link.jpg
antenna.jpg
Mauro
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Mon Apr 15, 2024 4:50 pm

This brings back some good memories !


I am excited to see what people are able to do with the new WiFi 6 outdoor equipment.
 
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Mon Apr 15, 2024 9:58 pm

Image
 
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Techsystem
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Fri Apr 19, 2024 11:27 am

Well.. I don't know how to prove that we installed these guys..but ok no problem.
Mikrotik Forever.jpeg
and here is all the Mikrotik Gold devices that conected to this column -( from other sites also)-..sorry but really I can't provide more info.
Mikrotik Neighbor.png
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normis
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Fri Apr 19, 2024 2:37 pm

What about the distance of the longest links?
 
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Techsystem
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Fri Apr 19, 2024 4:06 pm

For me the Longest Distnace is 26.6 Km.
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Fri Apr 19, 2024 5:31 pm

For me the Longest Distnace is 26.6 Km.
Please, for all of you, if someone wonders about this 26.6 km distance, I want to inform you that the speed is less than 40 Mbps. But it's okay for us -at least- for this specific location, so don't take this info as a standard to install LHG-5nD and expected a 500 Mbps at this distance.
 
maigonis
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Tue Apr 23, 2024 12:35 pm

For me the Longest Distnace is 26.6 Km.
Please, for all of you, if someone wonders about this 26.6 km distance, I want to inform you that the speed is less than 40 Mbps. But it's okay for us -at least- for this specific location, so don't take this info as a standard to install LHG-5nD and expected a 500 Mbps at this distance.
Can you share more technical stats? Like rx signal on both sides, modulations and how well are they holding etc.
 
emunt6
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Tue Apr 23, 2024 9:14 pm

Hi!

Not long range, ~ 4km link Netmetal-5 both 450 Mbps@5Ghz at peak,
planning to replace to 60Ghz Radio (no Mikrotik), but We keep CCR for routing.

The 5Ghz range is too noisy, usable spectrum is small, time to move to 60Ghz.
 
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Sun Apr 28, 2024 12:38 am

Hi,

a pair of "LHG XL 52 ac" in Austria in the 5GHz band and compliant unlicensed automatic power levels.
Distance is 45 km
RouterOS 7.12
Between a 50m high building and the remote on a hill.
Signal strength is roughly -87 dBmW

And the phy rate is variable between 12Mbits up to 28.8Mbps-20Mhz/2S/SGI
Mostly it is in between.

Using a different protocol than nv2 produced problems,
and some older firmware did too.

But in this current configuration the link is very stable even with bad weather.
Let me know if you have questions!
 
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Tue May 07, 2024 2:20 pm

HAMNET in Germany 160km on 5 GHz
Screenshot 2024-05-07 131826.png
Link: https://hamnetdb.net/map.cgi
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miankamran7100
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Wed May 08, 2024 8:30 am

So according to your experience, It means that Mikrotik can't afford or does not have hardware that can establish the 30Km link as like the Capacity of Ubnt Airfiber or other products
Regards
 
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normis
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Wed May 08, 2024 10:37 am

miankamran7100 what are you talking about? see above posts
 
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Wed May 08, 2024 11:01 am

miankamran7100 probably means that while 30km+ is possible, it comes with very poor throughput compared to the competition.
 
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normis
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Wed May 08, 2024 11:03 am

He mentioned a 60GHz device, which is a different category. If you have poor performance on long range links, make a separate topic about it and we can help fine tune it.
 
infabo
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Wed May 08, 2024 11:14 am

Now I don't know what you are talking about. The only "device" he mentioned was "Ubnt Airfiber". A quick google tells me this is a 5ghz device.

Regardless, OP asked about 30km+ wireless connections. Any frequency range works - as long as it's MikroTik.
 
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normis
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Wed May 08, 2024 11:19 am

I did a quick google search and it says 60GHz 1Gbit device. Sorry I'm not an expert in other brands, but in 5GHz you can't get 1Gbit over 30+ KM

P.S: I'm the OP
 
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Wed May 08, 2024 11:23 am

There seems to be e.g. "airFiber 5 Mid-Band" and Ubnt says: "5 GHz, high-band 100+ km link range".
 
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normis
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Wed May 08, 2024 11:34 am

but that speed only applies when 60ghz is used, that 5ghz interface is for backup. So it's not fair to say other brands have much better speed
 
miankamran7100
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Wed May 08, 2024 1:32 pm

miankamran7100 probably means that while 30km+ is possible, it comes with very poor throughput compared to the competition.
Yes, I have shifted my WISP from ubnt to Mikrotik. But on a long-range like 25 to 30 KM there is no ptp solution in MIkrotik.

What to do?
 
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Wed May 08, 2024 2:11 pm

Well, it depends on the speed you're aiming for at that distance. You could always get a pair of AirFiber XRs for $2000 or explore some other point-to-point brands using licensed bands. Additionally, for a 30km connection, you'll probably need antenna towers aprox 250 feet in height. The bottom line is: don't expect a fast, long-range connection to be inexpensive.

Btw, have you checked the ptp link calculator? https://mikrotik.com/calculator
 
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Wed May 08, 2024 6:57 pm

Mind you, other than non-standard illegal amateur work, you can't expect anything good in terms of bandwidth from a 30km 5GHz link.
This is why the maximum connection distance I make is less than 16km.

When I need more distance, I use licensed Ceragon products on 13 / 18 GHz.

PS: AF60-LR 5Km 1.9Gbps (but usable only 1Gbps for ethernet cable) // AF5XHD@60Mhz 16Km 1024QAM 500Mbps
 
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Thu May 09, 2024 5:17 am

Mind you, other than non-standard illegal amateur work, you can't expect anything good in terms of bandwidth from a 30km 5GHz link.
This is why the maximum connection distance I make is less than 16km.
My current 27km AirFiber 5XHD link on 3' (1m) 34dBi antennas and 100MHz of spectrum (US UNII-3 5800MHz, which allows full power) is getting 484 down 160 up. It's not the 500/500 that Ubiquiti's ISP Design Center projects I should be able to get, but I'm sure with 4', 6', or 10' antennas, I'd probably see higher modulation.

It would be interesting to see what a NetBox AX or NetMetal AX could do with that link. Just ordered two NB5AX's to see how they do.
Last edited by sirbryan on Thu May 09, 2024 5:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Thu May 09, 2024 5:22 am

I did a quick google search and it says 60GHz 1Gbit device. Sorry I'm not an expert in other brands, but in 5GHz you can't get 1Gbit over 30+ KM
AirFiber is a line of devices, in 4.9GHz, 5GHz, 11GHz, 24GHz, and 60GHz. The 4/5 GHz radios can get around 500-700Mbps aggregate, 11GHz about 550Mbps full duplex, 24 770-1G full duplex, and 60GHz from 1500 to 2700 aggregate.

MikroTik's AC/AX radios are comparable to the AF5/5X/5XHD models.
 
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Thu May 09, 2024 8:03 am

My current 27km AirFiber 5XHD link on 3' (1m) 34dBi antennas and 100MHz of spectrum ...
This setup hardly qualifies as "wifi based link". While it does use frequency from U-NII-3 band, it obviously doesn't use 802.11-compliant channel width (which would be either 80MHz or 160MHz) ... and quite possibly doesn't comply to usual WiFi country regulations (it seems that for US it should be around 30dB EIRP). With antenna gain of 34dBi, EIRP of your system is more likely around 55dB. I'm not US citizen so I'm not supposed/obliged to know the regulatory limits in US, so I may be very much wrong about allowed EIRP though ;-)
 
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Thu May 09, 2024 11:41 am

Yes, this topic should be about WiFi 802.11 a/b/g/n/ac/ax in 2 or 5GHz
 
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Thu May 09, 2024 12:04 pm

Remaining within European regulations,
a link made in a perfect way (no mind the producer), at 30km, would have a signal of around -79dB in good weather, -88 in light drizzle...
So unless you break the law, there's no point in expecting anything good.
I repeat: With any producer, remaining within the legality.

Outside legality, a 100Km link is possible with mANT30 and NetMetal 921UAGS-5SHPacD at -63 in good weather and -95 if it rains on all 100km at the same time.
 
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Thu May 09, 2024 3:39 pm

There are some national regulations wider than standard ETSI. In my country we have a max of 200W eirp for PtP in 5.8GHz. Not available in ROS7, yet.
 
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Thu May 09, 2024 6:45 pm

My current 27km AirFiber 5XHD link on 3' (1m) 34dBi antennas and 100MHz of spectrum ...
This setup hardly qualifies as "wifi based link". While it does use frequency from U-NII-3 band, it obviously doesn't use 802.11-compliant channel width (which would be either 80MHz or 160MHz) ... and quite possibly doesn't comply to usual WiFi country regulations (it seems that for US it should be around 30dB EIRP).
I think you guys missed the point of my AF5XHD post.

Normis asked for MikroTik Wifi-based links that are 30km or longer. The first few posts are people posting much shorter links. I posted about a 32km link I built with MikroTik gear, but it was pretty poor (and it was only in place to test some modifications we had made). Other >30km links posted likewise have unremarkable throughput results.

Subsequently, some posters suggested you can't do anything worthwhile in 5GHz at that range. Well, with 30dBm, you're right. But some regulatory bodies allow for more power in 5.2/5.8, and I posted about real world experience that suggests you can indeed get decent bandwidth out of 5GHz.

In the US, DFS range is limited to 30dBm. The FCC reconsidered rules for U-NII-1 (5150-5250) and U-NII-3 (5725-5850) a decade ago. Max conducted power is 1W out of the radio. While max PTMP in 5.2/5.8 is 4W (36dBm), for U-NII-1, max EIRP for PTP is 200W (53dBm), and for U-NII-3, there is no PTP gain limit (https://transition.fcc.gov/bureaus/oet/ ... 014-TN.pdf, https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/FCC-14-30A1.pdf).

My LTU-based AF5XHD's get a similar bits/Hz as 802.11ac gear. To be fair, I went ahead and put the Rocket Prism 5AC into the calculator using the same antennas my LTU radios are using, and it shows a theoretical aggregate throughput of 662Mbps across 80MHz (I'm getting 645 on 100MHz). 802.11ax is supposed to do better, and indeed, on the bench, I get up to 800Mbps over 80MHz with hAP AX3 to my phone or laptop. Other US-based WISPs have reported their Cambium 802.11ax-based deployments are pushing 400-700Mbps across long distances.

So, to bring it (mostly) back on topic, I've ordered two NetBox 5AX's I'll be testing at 27km (close to but not quite 30km) with 3' dishes. What I can do with those should easily translate to 30km with only a small degradation in performance.
 
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Fri May 10, 2024 2:50 pm

So, to bring it (mostly) back on topic, I've ordered two NetBox 5AX's I'll be testing at 27km (close to but not quite 30km) with 3' dishes. What I can do with those should easily translate to 30km with only a small degradation in performance.

looking forward to see you results here.
if reasonable, i then also have some new tools from mikrotik for myself to deploy. (some far customer regions to upgrade to wireless to move away from old DSL lines with ~2mbit/s)
 
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Re: Long range wireless links - share your experience

Fri May 10, 2024 3:04 pm

A pair of "LHG XL 52 ac" in Austria in the 5GHz band and compliant unlicensed automatic power levels.
Distance is 45 km
Here is a picture of one side of my 45km link:

Image

@normis: Would be happy to take any Mikrotik merch voucher off your hands :D

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