wAP ax?

jmrackley1 · Mon Jun 05, 2023 12:37 am

Any plans for wAP ax?

Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:50 am

I certainly hope there are !

Note to Mikrotik, please use ASA plastic for the housing so it doesn't turn Mustard Yellow in our glorious southern sun. Thanks

dhoulbrooke · Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:16 am

Soon.....

https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/display/ ... +ww2+-+tmp

gotsprings · Sun Jun 11, 2023 3:36 pm

It did really sting when I had to put a XV2-2T in at a beer garden.
Its right next to Nationals' Stadium in Washington DC.

Last year it was only carrying managers traffic.

This year they changed to a cloud based Point of Sales Terminals on WiFi. Went back into the router and built a new IP scope. Added a new VLAN tag to the switch. Generated a SSID for the Terminals and Handhelds.

2.5 months and all I have heard is "We were really nervous moving to the new Point of Sales system. But its been rock solid."

The point of sales vendor is considering dumping UniF--k (They have hundreds of installs with UniF--k) because they are so impressed with this site.

I don't wanna hear (see) one mother f--king word from any of you about about the price difference. The difference is: it works or it doesn't!

The hAP AC2 and CRS326-24G+2S-RM are doing their jobs.
But the radio duties HAD to be relegated to another vendor.

All THE POINT OF SALES DEVICES stay connected to 5Ghz across the entire site.

Amm0 · Mon Jun 12, 2023 7:20 pm

Soon.....

https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/display/ ... +ww2+-+tmp

Is it going to have dual SIMs? It's annoying there are no ARM devices with dual SIM support.

rextended · Mon Jun 12, 2023 7:24 pm

Soon.....

https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/display/ ... +ww2+-+tmp
Is it going to have dual SIMs? It's annoying there are no ARM devices with dual SIM support.

On that page.....

wAP R ax, ww2 - tmp

"data+power"=11111

"WinBox"=22222

"Neighbors"=33333

QuickSet=44444

"admin"=55555

"WinBox Files"=77777

"QuickSet"=88888

"/System/Resources"=99999

EN - English - Quick Guide:

First steps:
Make sure your ISP allows hardware change and will issue an automatic IP address;
Open the bottom lid;
Connect the device to the included PoE injector with an Ethernet cable to the 11111 end;
Connect the data end of the PoE injector to the computer;
Connect the power adapter to the PoE injector;
Navigate to the network connections section on your computer and locate the wireless network named "MikroTik-...". Proceed to connect to it (check the wireless passwords on the sticker);

Configuration should be made via a wireless network using a mobile application or you can use the 22222 configuration tool https://mt.lv/winbox;
Download and open 22222, and choose the 33333 tab to find the device;
Click on the MAC address. The username is 55555 and there is no password (or, for some models, check user and wireless passwords on the sticker);
For a manual update of the device, visit https://mikrotik.com/download;
Select architecture based on your device model under 99999 and download the latest packages (routeros-x.x-x.npk, wifiwave2-x.x-x.npk) for this device and download them onto your PC;
Upload downloaded packages to the 77777 menu and reboot the device. By upgrading your RouterOS software to the latest version, you can ensure optimal performance, stability, and security updates;
In the 88888 menu set up the following: Choose your country, to apply country regulation settings;
Set up your wireless network password in the left field;
Set up your router password in the bottom field.

rextended · Mon Jun 12, 2023 7:28 pm

So, also the NetMetal AX????

https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/display/ ... _XXX+-+tmp

Amm0 · Mon Jun 12, 2023 7:31 pm

Is it going to have dual SIMs? It's annoying there are no ARM devices with dual SIM support.
On that page.....

Yeah that page requires a login.

I guess I was hoping for the wAPaxR with LTE – I forgot they made AP-only ones.

rextended · Mon Jun 12, 2023 7:35 pm

The code is wAPGiR-5HaxD2HaxD&R11e-LTE6, has PoE out (500mW @ 24V) on 2nd ethernet

kravemir · Fri Sep 29, 2023 9:40 pm

Hopefully comes soon. I'm positively excited about WifiWave2, as 802.11k/v/r fast roaming works great.

Though, would hAP ax² in plastic enclosure with IP67 rating work? Well, obviously it won't be IP67 anymore, once I drill holes to the bottom of it to connect ethernet cable with PoE, but enclosure still should drain water around and hAP ax² should remain dry.

However, besides it being very ugly solution, what about humidity. Can hAP ax² handle high humidity during rains? And, freezing temperatures, such as -32°C?

jmrackley1 · Wed Nov 08, 2023 3:19 pm

Any update on the possibility of a wAP ax?

Wed Nov 08, 2023 4:37 pm

And, freezing temperatures, such as -32°C?

I think the chip will make it hot enough to withstand low temperatures.
High temperatures are more likely to be a problem.

kravemir · Wed Nov 29, 2023 8:14 am

Hopefully comes soon. I'm positively excited about WifiWave2, as 802.11k/v/r fast roaming works great.

To deliver WifiWave2 CAPsMAN compatibility in outdoors, wAP ac (ARM only) can be used with RouterOS 7.13 (beta release notes) and the new WiFi driver.

I've successfully tested wAP ac on 7.13beta as CAP, with hAP ax³ on 7.12 as WifiWave2 CAPsMAN. I posted a little bit of details in the linked beta release thread.

The wAP ax is not out yet. However, for my use case, I just need wireless coverage with seamless roaming. Speed doesn't matter as long as it's above 20Mbit. So, wAP ac is good enough.

mkx · Wed Nov 29, 2023 8:53 am

And, freezing temperatures, such as -32°C?
I think the chip will make it hot enough to withstand low temperatures.

If power accidentally fails during low temperature periods, then device will freeze to death. Literally.

But I agree on high temperature issues being more probable.

Wed Nov 29, 2023 9:09 am

Just some thoughts ...

I have the impression with the release of 7.13beta and the wave2 ac-drivers, MT shot a bit in their own foot.
On one side it will make sure current owners of wap AC have no real incentive anymore to move towards AX. Potential missed sales.
On the other hand, since wAP AX is not yet available, it does bridge a gap until the new device is available (are they buying time, perhaps ?).

Wed Nov 29, 2023 9:12 am

But we did get a lot of love from our current AC device users, did we not

Let's hope it pays back in the long term

woland · Wed Nov 29, 2023 10:43 am

On one side it will make sure current owners of wap AC have no real incentive anymore to move towards AX. Potential missed sales.
On the other hand, since wAP AX is not yet available, it does bridge a gap until the new device is available (are they buying time, perhaps ?).

Hi!
Partly agree, but as an owner of a few wAPac, cAPac, until now I was just thinking to replace them by some other vendors APs. Primarily because of the different quirks and missing WPA3, and not because they are not the latest and fastest! Also because I haven´t seen MT giving it´s wireless, the much needed love.

Now I´m thinking: MT goes into the right direction with consumer WLANs, so it´s worth staying with MT APs! (and I already bought a cAPax, hAPax[2|3|lite|

Especially if they add back the VLAN tagging for WLAN subinterfaces in 7.13bXX!

Wed Nov 29, 2023 11:00 am

@normis:
don't get me wrong !
I welcome what you guys did a lot, it really shows your company is willing to make the extra effort for your customer base.
It will certainly help to boost sales on the still existing arm-AC devices now they can be reused/reconfigured and even expanded in numbers for existing setups pending wAP AX release (not soon then, I guess ?).

So yes, lots of appreciation for that move. Nobody saw that one coming

Wed Nov 29, 2023 2:41 pm

Mikrotik are slowly refreshing their AC line. I think that outdoor AX devices may be quite close to being launched

kravemir · Wed Nov 29, 2023 9:17 pm

I have the impression with the release of 7.13beta and the wave2 ac-drivers, MT shot a bit in their own foot.
On one side it will make sure current owners of wap AC have no real incentive anymore to move towards AX. Potential missed sales.

People buy new devices, because they are doing a new deployment, or replacing faulty devices, or upgrading/expanding existing deployment.

In upgrade/expand scenarios of old deployments, customers might try another brand for access points. If it's gonna break compatibility, then one might as well just go to different vendor.

In replace scenario. It depends if one wants to be investing in legacy system, that is incompatible with new generation of models. So, one might go with upgrade/expand scenario here, as well.

In new deployments. It varies, if one needs outdoors coverage immediately, then it's going straight for a different brand of access points.

With this move, MikroTik removed compatibility-breakage reason to try/switch to other brand in all above scenarios.

It is also strategically a good move, because long term interest in brand requires a trust. In case of networking one wants to trust, that future new devices will be compatible with old ones, or old ones will be brought up to date to be compatible with new ones - on software level. In case of 802.11r/k/v it's more important, because there's (AFAIK) no vendor-agnostic standard for multi-AP cooperation.

I believe, many people waited on what happens next. Or, went with other brand already. I.e., now - after this move, I will purchase another wAP ac once winter passes in order to complete the coverage of my garden.

Additionally, it shows, that MikroTik cares about users. And, rather makes things better over time, than going with "planned obsolescence" approach to force new sales. I love this move.

Amm0 · Wed Nov 29, 2023 11:18 pm

Additionally, it shows, that MikroTik cares about users. And, rather makes things better over time, than going with "planned obsolescence" approach to force new sales. I love this move.

In fact, I ordered a few wAPacR's on Monday.

gotsprings · Fri Dec 01, 2023 6:52 am

You know... It occured to me... All the times I have used that old email as a cudgel.

06/10/2019
"...If and when we will fix it, I will contact you with a more specific cause of the issue."

Managing to jam the WAVE 2 driver on the AC radios... Would fix the issues that made us replace a couple hundred wAPs and cAPs... Might finally be addressed.

Turn around time: 4 years and 5 months.

ReLe · Mon Apr 08, 2024 11:47 pm

Have to resurrect this old thread. I was looking for MT , with at least AC access point speed, with outdoor enclosure and poe in af/at support. Only thing that I could find was WAP AC and it's is discontinued. Really hope we get AX version soon, was planning on installing AP to my garage wall next summer.

gotsprings · Mon Apr 15, 2024 9:39 pm

Have to resurrect this old thread. I was looking for MT , with at least AC access point speed, with outdoor enclosure and poe in af/at support. Only thing that I could find was WAP AC and it's is discontinued. Really hope we get AX version soon, was planning on installing AP to my garage wall next summer.

Amazon has the wAP AC for $90

Tue Apr 16, 2024 8:36 am

wAP ac is not discontinued

Amm0 · Wed Apr 17, 2024 1:58 am

wAP ac is not discontinued

Perhaps, but it's "brother" with miniPCIe is marked as discontinued (https://mikrotik.com/product/wap_r_ac)

erlinden · Wed May 08, 2024 1:21 pm

Don't want to spoil anything, normis...the wAP AX is coming this year!
At least, so it is said on YouTube:

https://youtu.be/JSoModWAPIw?si=WQlTFGSH1o8zBpwM

Wed May 08, 2024 5:18 pm

rumors sure travel fast

mag1024 · Mon May 13, 2024 7:33 am

Amazon has the wAP AC for $90

I would not recommend the wAP AC. I have the "refreshed" ARM version with 128mb, running 7.14, with wifi-qcom-ac (so that I can use WPA3) and nothing else -- no routing, no firewall, no additional packages -- and it reboots several times a day due to OOMs. Seems that the 128mb devices are not actually usable with the modern wifi packages.

Looking at upgrading it to NetMetal AX, or wAP AX, when it comes out -- assuming it has 256mb RAM.

erlinden · Mon May 13, 2024 9:15 am

Are you running the wAP ac stand alone? I have multiple wAP ac's running with wifi-qcom-ac driver, for a couple of months. Running in CAP's mode, never ever ran out of memory. Would really like to see your config, @mag1024.

Mon May 13, 2024 9:24 am

Same thoughts here.
Wap AC is the same platform as cap AC and hAP AC2, I have a couple of those running purely as AP with wave2 drivers.
Not a single problem.

Rox169 · Mon May 13, 2024 1:47 pm

AX is better than AC....

mag1024 · Mon May 13, 2024 10:50 pm

Would really like to see your config, @mag1024.

Thank you for offering to take a look, @erlinden!

Here's the config -- a couple of WAP3 aps, a couple of vlans -- not much else:

# 2024-05-13 15:31:43 by RouterOS 7.14.3
# software id = S32L-8MSK
#
# model = RBwAPG-5HacD2HnD
# serial number = xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
/interface bridge
add admin-mac=18:FD:74:B5:A1:B0 auto-mac=no comment=defconf frame-types=\
    admit-only-vlan-tagged mtu=1500 name=br-trunk port-cost-mode=short \
    vlan-filtering=yes
/interface ethernet
set [ find default-name=ether1 ] l2mtu=9014 mtu=9000
/interface vlan
add interface=br-trunk name=vlan-mgmt vlan-id=99
/interface list
add comment=defconf name=WAN
add comment=defconf name=LAN
/interface lte apn
set [ find default=yes ] ip-type=ipv4 use-network-apn=no
/interface macsec
add ckn=XXX disabled=no interface=ether1 mtu=\
    1500 name=macsec1 profile=default
/interface wifi channel
add band=2ghz-n disabled=no name=2g
add band=5ghz-ac disabled=no name=5g
/interface wifi configuration
add disabled=no mode=ap name=DMZ security.connect-priority=0 ssid=xxxxxxDMZ
add disabled=no name=LAN security.connect-priority=0 ssid=xxxxxx
/interface wifi security
add authentication-types=wpa3-psk connect-priority=0 disabled=no encryption=\
    ccmp,gcmp,ccmp-256,gcmp-256 name=wpa3
/interface wifi
set [ find default-name=wifi1 ] channel=2g configuration=DMZ \
    configuration.mode=ap disabled=no name=wifi2-dmz security=wpa3 \
    security.connect-priority=0
add channel=2g configuration=LAN configuration.mode=ap disabled=no \
    mac-address=1A:FD:74:B5:A1:B2 master-interface=wifi2-dmz name=wifi2-lan \
    security=wpa3 security.connect-priority=0
add configuration.mode=ap .ssid=xxxxxxNOT disabled=no mac-address=\
    1A:FD:74:B5:A1:B1 master-interface=wifi2-dmz name=wifi2-not \
    security.authentication-types=wpa2-psk,wpa3-psk .connect-priority=0
set [ find default-name=wifi2 ] channel=5g configuration=DMZ \
    configuration.mode=ap disabled=no name=wifi5-dmz security=wpa3 \
    security.connect-priority=0
add channel=5g configuration=LAN configuration.mode=ap disabled=no \
    mac-address=1A:FD:74:B5:A1:B3 master-interface=wifi5-dmz name=wifi5-lan \
    security=wpa3 security.connect-priority=0
/ip hotspot profile
set [ find default=yes ] html-directory=hotspot
/ip pool
add name=dhcp ranges=192.168.88.10-192.168.88.254
/ip smb users
set [ find default=yes ] disabled=yes
/interface bridge port
add bridge=br-trunk frame-types=admit-only-untagged-and-priority-tagged \
    interface=wifi2-dmz internal-path-cost=10 path-cost=10 pvid=12
add bridge=br-trunk frame-types=admit-only-untagged-and-priority-tagged \
    interface=wifi5-dmz internal-path-cost=10 path-cost=10 pvid=12
add bridge=br-trunk frame-types=admit-only-vlan-tagged interface=macsec1 \
    internal-path-cost=10 path-cost=10
add bridge=br-trunk frame-types=admit-only-untagged-and-priority-tagged \
    interface=wifi2-lan internal-path-cost=10 path-cost=10 pvid=10
add bridge=br-trunk frame-types=admit-only-untagged-and-priority-tagged \
    interface=wifi5-lan internal-path-cost=10 path-cost=10 pvid=10
add bridge=br-trunk frame-types=admit-only-untagged-and-priority-tagged \
    interface=wifi2-not pvid=15
/ip firewall connection tracking
set enabled=no udp-timeout=10s
/ip neighbor discovery-settings
set discover-interface-list=LAN
/ip settings
set max-neighbor-entries=8192
/ipv6 settings
set disable-ipv6=yes max-neighbor-entries=8192
/interface bridge vlan
add bridge=br-trunk tagged=br-trunk,macsec1 vlan-ids=99
add bridge=br-trunk tagged=br-trunk,macsec1 untagged=*1,*2 vlan-ids=12
add bridge=br-trunk tagged=br-trunk,macsec1 untagged=*A,*B vlan-ids=10
add bridge=br-trunk tagged=br-trunk,macsec1 untagged=*C vlan-ids=15
add bridge=br-trunk tagged=macsec1,br-trunk vlan-ids=11
/interface list member
add comment=defconf disabled=yes interface=br-trunk list=LAN
add comment=defconf disabled=yes interface=ether1 list=WAN
add disabled=yes interface=ether1 list=LAN
add interface=ether2 list=LAN
add interface=vlan-mgmt list=LAN
/interface ovpn-server server
set auth=sha1,md5
/ip address
add address=192.168.88.1/24 interface=ether2 network=192.168.88.0
/ip dhcp-client
add interface=vlan-mgmt
add disabled=yes interface=ether2
add add-default-route=no interface=*D use-peer-dns=no use-peer-ntp=no
/ip dns
set allow-remote-requests=yes
/ip dns static
add address=192.168.88.1 comment=defconf name=router.lan
/ip firewall filter
# connection state matcher not possible when connection tracking is disabled
add action=accept chain=input comment=\
    "defconf: accept established,related,untracked" connection-state=\
    established,related,untracked
# connection state matcher not possible when connection tracking is disabled
add action=drop chain=input comment="defconf: drop invalid" connection-state=\
    invalid log=yes log-prefix=inv
add action=accept chain=input comment="defconf: accept ICMP" protocol=icmp
add action=accept chain=input comment=\
    "defconf: accept to local loopback (for CAPsMAN)" dst-address=127.0.0.1
add action=drop chain=input comment="defconf: drop all not coming from LAN" \
    in-interface-list=!LAN
add action=accept chain=forward comment="defconf: accept in ipsec policy" \
    ipsec-policy=in,ipsec
add action=accept chain=forward comment="defconf: accept out ipsec policy" \
    ipsec-policy=out,ipsec
# connection state matcher not possible when connection tracking is disabled
add action=fasttrack-connection chain=forward comment="defconf: fasttrack" \
    connection-state=established,related hw-offload=yes
# connection state matcher not possible when connection tracking is disabled
add action=accept chain=forward comment=\
    "defconf: accept established,related, untracked" connection-state=\
    established,related,untracked
# connection state matcher not possible when connection tracking is disabled
add action=drop chain=forward comment="defconf: drop invalid" \
    connection-state=invalid
# connection state matcher not possible when connection tracking is disabled
# connection nat state matcher not possible when connection tracking is disabled
add action=drop chain=forward comment=\
    "defconf: drop all from WAN not DSTNATed" connection-nat-state=!dstnat \
    connection-state=new in-interface-list=WAN
/ip firewall nat
add action=masquerade chain=srcnat comment="defconf: masquerade" disabled=yes \
    ipsec-policy=out,none out-interface-list=WAN
/ip firewall service-port
set ftp disabled=yes
set tftp disabled=yes
set h323 disabled=yes
set sip disabled=yes
set pptp disabled=yes
/ip smb shares
set [ find default=yes ] directory=/flash/pub
/routing bfd configuration
add disabled=no
/snmp
set enabled=yes trap-version=2
/system clock
set time-zone-name=America/New_York
/system identity
set name=wap-ac
/system note
set show-at-login=no
/system ntp client
set enabled=yes
/system ntp client servers
add address=10.0.0.1

When I check the router resources, it claims to have 15-20mb RAM free, and yet even as I was logging in to grab the config, it rebooted again:

2024-05-12 18:38:46 system,error,critical kernel failure in previous boot
2024-05-12 18:38:46 system,error,critical out of memory condition was detected
2024-05-13 04:17:10 system,critical,info ntp change time May/12/2024 18:39:32 => May/13/2024 04:17:10
2024-05-13 14:37:11 dhcp,critical,error dhcp-client on vlan-mgmt lost IP address 10.0.99.9 - lease expired
2024-05-13 04:17:12 system,error,critical router was rebooted without proper shutdown, probably kernel failure
2024-05-13 04:17:13 system,error,critical kernel failure in previous boot
2024-05-13 04:17:13 system,error,critical out of memory condition was detected
2024-05-13 14:57:08 system,critical,info ntp change time May/13/2024 04:17:59 => May/13/2024 14:57:08

Tue May 14, 2024 9:01 am

If something crashes or has out of memory issues, please raise a ticket in our support portal. Make sure you are running the latest v7 release and can repeat the issue.

robmaltsystems · Thu May 16, 2024 12:05 am

AX is better than AC....

Hmm.... I'm not sure I agree with Mikrotik...

GolemPL · Fri May 17, 2024 10:24 pm

waiting for wAP AX , need do outdoor roaming. Possibly can be done with netmetal AX but not sure because it have 256MB of RAM and full roaming required 1GB.

Mon Jul 22, 2024 8:23 pm

waiting for wAP AX , need do outdoor roaming. Possibly can be done with netmetal AX but not sure because it have 256MB of RAM and full roaming required 1GB.

Count me in but in the mean time I decided to put wap AC on my porch with wifi-qcom-ac drivers.
It ain't that bad for outdoor wifi, I would say ... (ISP = 1Gb down, 50Mb up)

Speedtest (Custom).jpg

Nullcaller · Tue Jul 23, 2024 12:57 pm

Yeah, if it's roaming you desire, any ARM-based ac device will do the job just fine. I'm using pretty much exclusively ac devices, and they're great, with drivers being seemingly more stable than on ax devices.

My ax3 is relegated to edge router duties and only does IoT wifi stuff. I won't use that thing full on for my home network until MikroTik at the very least figures out proper TX power values in their ax drivers.

And actually, even old non-ARM ac stuff is pretty decent in terms of roaming. There are hiccups when your devices reconnect from one AP to another. But if you just disable RSTP on AP bridges, they become quite short.

ReLe · Tue Jul 23, 2024 3:50 pm

Decided that I'm not going to wait for AX and decided to get AC. But it's sold out on many places and on MT website it shows as discontinued.... So maybe it's coming and maybe, just maybe my garden wifi project will get post poned to next month in hopes of AX model arrival.

Tue Jul 23, 2024 3:54 pm

Depending on how long you are willing to wait, if wAP ac is really out of stock, maybe it is worth to wait a little more

Tue Jul 23, 2024 4:21 pm

Decided that I'm not going to wait for AX and decided to get AC. But it's sold out on many places and on MT website it shows as discontinued.... So maybe it's coming and maybe, just maybe my garden wifi project will get post poned to next month in hopes of AX model arrival.

Getic.com still has them available, 100 pcs. But only EU version. (that's where I got mine)
And on MT website ARM version is not discontinued.
MIPSBE version is.

It's the ARM version you want in order to benefit from wave2 drivers.

ToTheFull · Tue Jul 23, 2024 5:02 pm

Whats the point in going backwards?

ToTheFull · Tue Jul 23, 2024 5:03 pm

Depending on how long you are willing to wait, if wAP ac is really out of stock, maybe it is worth to wait a little more

Waiting to cover my gym down the garden!

ReLe · Wed Jul 24, 2024 2:02 am

Decided that I'm not going to wait for AX and decided to get AC. But it's sold out on many places and on MT website it shows as discontinued.... So maybe it's coming and maybe, just maybe my garden wifi project will get post poned to next month in hopes of AX model arrival.
Getic.com still has them available, 100 pcs. But only EU version. (that's where I got mine)
And on MT website ARM version is not discontinued.
MIPSBE version is.

It's the ARM version you want in order to benefit from wave2 drivers.

Ah, you were right. For some reason when I searched on google for wap ac, first search results were for the MIPS version ant that is sold out, but Getic certainly has ARM in stock.

But if AX is coming this year, maybe I will still hold off on AC so I get WPA3 with AX.

mag1024 · Fri Aug 09, 2024 9:00 pm

If something crashes or has out of memory issues, please raise a ticket in our support portal. Make sure you are running the latest v7 release and can repeat the issue.

Thanks -- I did do this, and was told what I already suspected: 128mb is just not realistically enough for wave2 drivers.

Anything below ~20 MB, especially with the wifi-qcom-ac package, is OOM "territory". As you can see, wifi-qcom AX devices at least have 256 MB of RAM: https://mikrotik.com/product/hap_ax_lite
It is also expected/known that wifi-qcom-ac increases RAM usage, and so there are only 2 ways to make it stop: a) reduce the settings further; b) migrate back to older wireless drivers.

So yeah, don't buy a WAP AC if you need WAP3 or other wave2-only features.

infabo · Fri Aug 09, 2024 9:59 pm

I am realistically running a cap AC with wifi-qcom-ac. As a dumb CAP of course. There may be not enough RAM for other services indeed.

Rox169 · Fri Aug 09, 2024 10:07 pm

COME ON MIKROTIK WAKE UP.....
give us monitoring SW, and AX in those HW: SXTsq, LHG, Omnitik5, SXT SA5.cap ax lite

carl0s · Sat Aug 10, 2024 12:42 am

I am starting to give up hope.

Every few weeks to few months I come back hoping there is some new WiFi AP that isn't the size of an Italian pizza and that works well. but there is nothing. No APs that I feel like installing

Boo

gotsprings · Mon Aug 12, 2024 4:14 pm

I am starting to give up hope.

Every few weeks to few months I come back hoping there is some new WiFi AP that isn't the size of an Italian pizza and that works well. but there is nothing. No APs that I feel like installing

Boo

You know where I stand.

I am not willing to go back into the UniF--k ecosystem. The Cambium XV2-23T is about $600. But I can put them in and forget them.

Do I miss that instant feedback right there in the router of caps-man? YUP.
But I don't miss the trouble tickets. NO!

robmaltsystems · Wed Aug 21, 2024 1:21 pm

I am not willing to go back into the UniF--k ecosystem.

Intrigued what you don't like so much?

gotsprings · Sun Aug 25, 2024 4:57 pm

I am not willing to go back into the UniF--k ecosystem.
Intrigued what you don't like so much?

The Wifi is better than Tik. But not anywhere near Cambium or Ruckus.

I am sure as hell am not going back to using a bunch of inferior devices just because it gives you one pane of glass.

Remember,
"The Greatest thing about UniF--k, is it allows people with no MOTHER F--king idea of what they are doing, to deploy networks.
The Worst thing about UniF--k, is it allows people with no MOTHER F--king idea of what they are doing, to deploy networks."

I have been involved with a couple hundred network take overs that were all UniF--k. I would look at the issues they were having and usually have to start at the router.

Suddenly... everything connected to the router no longer has issues.

Then I start dealing with the switching... pull the UniF--k for EdgeSwitches or Mikrotik... suddenly the wired network has no issues but wireless devices are still a problem.

The radios are about the only thing that are considerably more expensive than Tik or UniF--k radios. But the WiFi is the thing that the customer "judges the network by."

So i get the most push back about swapping the radios. Often having customers full on stop me at the radios.

They limp along for a while and submit tickets... I remind them... "thats a wifi issue any you opted out." They try to trick me into helping or taking responsibility for it... I have been around too long to fall for it.

Once the radios come out... the gushing starts... "Ohh my god... those old radios are garbage. Is there anything you can do with them,"
Me, "i take them to recycling or put them in the launcher at the shotgun range. But you can dump them on facebook or ebay pretty easily. There are a lot of UniF--kers out there who are down right evangelists. They will snap them up."

Before

IMG_20231015_113509.jpg

Connections were dropping constantly and they really couldn't get more than 80 feet away front to back and less than 40 left to right.

After

PXL_20231031_224254104 (1).jpg

NO problems in the midway after the swap. Made a wifi call and walked 800 feet away from the access point on the right and didn't have a single "can you hear me now"?

infabo · Sun Aug 25, 2024 6:37 pm

Love this post

ReLe · Tue Sep 03, 2024 2:05 pm

I have considered other outdoor wifi boxes, but there are unsolved issues with those.

https://mikrotik.com/product/netbox_5_ax this is probably not watertight without top cover so all antennas need to have leads, right? So for example
https://mikrotik.com/product/hgo_antenna_out will not work?

https://mikrotik.com/product/mantbox_ax_15s
Is this point to point data link only or can this be used as ap?

kravemir · Tue Sep 03, 2024 8:44 pm

https://mikrotik.com/product/mantbox_ax_15s
Is this point to point data link only or can this be used as ap?

Description says:

...mANTBox ax 15s can provide unparalleled wireless point-to-multipoint connectivity...

Rox169 · Tue Sep 03, 2024 8:49 pm

wap ax is coming soon

itimo01 · Tue Sep 03, 2024 9:14 pm

I have considered other outdoor wifi boxes, but there are unsolved issues with those.

https://mikrotik.com/product/netbox_5_ax this is probably not watertight without top cover so all antennas need to have leads, right? So for example
https://mikrotik.com/product/hgo_antenna_out will not work?

https://mikrotik.com/product/mantbox_ax_15s
Is this point to point data link only or can this be used as ap?

NetMetal AX also exists.

Technically, you can use the mantbox as an AP but keep in mind polarization

ReLe · Wed Sep 04, 2024 2:31 pm

NetMetal AX also exists.

Technically, you can use the mantbox as an AP but keep in mind polarization

Netmetal: "If necessary, you can adapt the NetMetal ax for lower range use with such antennas as our HGO-antenna-OUT screw-on omni antenna unit." But the sma connectors are oäbelow of top cover, right? So is it watertight with the antennas attached?

Mantbox: I have TV antenna pole to mount it to and sector of the mantbox should cover my garden, but it might be a bit of overkill...

Hopefully wap ax comes soon.

ReLe · Wed Sep 25, 2024 5:37 pm

Looks like it's coming, there is FCC id now

https://fccid.io/document.php%3Fid%3D76 ... JE8qJb44ex

Rox169 · Thu Sep 26, 2024 12:26 am

Looks like it's coming, there is FCC id now

https://fccid.io/document.php%3Fid%3D76 ... JE8qJb44ex

GOOD NEWS so we are missing only AX Clients now.

CAN ANYONE READ THE HW SPECIFICATION?

TNX

m4rk3J · Sat Oct 19, 2024 12:38 am

wAP ax datasheet: https://www.wifihw.cz/img.asp?attid=3848208

Please upload this PDF here, i can't do it.

gigabyte091 · Sat Oct 19, 2024 1:29 pm

Wooohooo, this would be great replacement for cap ax, better WAF factor

infabo · Sat Oct 19, 2024 1:48 pm

Indeed. I may swap my wall mounted CAP ac for this one. I am not willing to wait for a smaller, "WAF improved" version of CAP ax.

ToTheFull · Sat Oct 19, 2024 3:00 pm

So you would need to bond both ports to get full speed if thats your bag ?

gigabyte091 · Sat Oct 19, 2024 4:59 pm

In my use case 1 gig is more than enough and would like to replace my two cAP ax and one ax2 for 3 of wap ax. Also having additional port like on cap ax is a nice bonus.

ToTheFull · Sat Oct 19, 2024 5:14 pm

So you are going to downgrade to dual core 800MHz from quad-core 1800MHz ?
I guess you do get an upgrade to 2400 instead of 1200, hmm, also looks pretty for the wife!

Either way,I look forward to your review

gigabyte091 · Sat Oct 19, 2024 6:53 pm

While maybe seems that this is a downgrade (and you are right, it is when you compare processing power and other stats), cAP ax is really bulky device meant to be installed on the ceiling.

I don't have network cables on my ceiling and putting them require a lot of work (house made of bricks and lot of reinforced concrete, especially ceiling) which I really want to avoid.

wAP ax is meant to be on the ceiling, wall or mounted on the desk and it's slim and better looking than cAP ax so it will blend nicely with other dust collecting stuff on my TV cabinets and desks in all the rooms

Matta · Sat Oct 19, 2024 9:40 pm

So you are going to downgrade to dual core 800MHz from quad-core 1800MHz ?

These type of devices are meant to be first and foremost - Access Points. It uses same CPU as mANTBox ax 15 and, judging by the test results, it will do more than fine, especially considering the price.
I also wait for it to drop to retail, want to replace my aging wAP ACs.

anav · Sun Oct 20, 2024 9:34 pm

I actually dont mind the AX3 now, setup is not intuitive and confusing with multiple menus that overlap and interfere with each other but once you stumble across a working config, and dont use capsman, it works well enough.

ToTheFull · Sun Oct 20, 2024 11:07 pm

I actually dont mind the AX3 now, setup is not intuitive and confusing with multiple menus that overlap and interfere with each other but once you stumble across a working config, and dont use capsman, it works well enough.

If memory serves me you didn't have many kind words at the start... lol
I'm pretty amazed with the performance of my hAP ax2 running capsman dns cache to DoH and fq_codel including adlists. I'm warming to the platform more and more, I want a wAP ax and an RB5900 but honestly, I could live with what I have.

erlinden · Mon Oct 21, 2024 9:41 am

I actually dont mind the AX3 now, setup is not intuitive and confusing with multiple menus that overlap and interfere with each other but once you stumble across a working config, and dont use capsman, it works well enough.

For developers, used to program object oriented, the menu is actually pretty intuitive. And with CAPsMAN it is actually working pretty well. But those are just my 2 cents.

Mon Oct 21, 2024 10:42 am

As a matter of fact, if you were already used to former capsman, not that much has changed.

fifrak · Mon Oct 21, 2024 12:17 pm

It looks they are releasing AX version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgL1LR4ODB8

ToTheFull · Mon Oct 21, 2024 1:30 pm

Big first day launch as normal, they ain't got none

https://mikrotikbg.shop/en/wireless-sys ... 2haxd.html

erlinden · Mon Oct 21, 2024 1:55 pm

What do you mean by first day launch? The apperance on the several webshops?
I pre ordered today here in the Netherlands.

ToTheFull · Mon Oct 21, 2024 1:58 pm

I don't see any here in the UK ?

Kindis · Mon Oct 21, 2024 5:49 pm

Finally, ordered mine via SHL in Sweden.

toxicfusion · Mon Oct 21, 2024 6:14 pm

Finally, the long awaited wAP AX product. However, let’s hope MikroTik can release the needed AX driver improvements on their next ROS release...................... (edited - typed cAP instead of wAP)

erlinden · Mon Oct 21, 2024 8:49 pm

Finally, the long awaited cAP AX product. However, lets hope MikroTik can release the needed AX driver improvements on their next ROS release......................

You mean wAP AX I assume? They are constantly improving and releasing new drivers and versions of RouterOS...no doubt it will become better. And I'm already enjoying it daily.

Kindis · Tue Oct 22, 2024 10:43 am

I have 3 cAP AX and I have very little to zero issues with them. The issues with SA Query timeout went away (I have no Intel card connected). So what is the issues mentioned here?

ReLe · Tue Oct 22, 2024 1:03 pm

Finally, ordered mine via SHL in Sweden.

What is SHL, a webshop? I can't find any distributor that has the device available for order.
Waiting mainly for the Getic to have it in stock, since they also carry the mtik mugs, broke my previous mug and want to order the mug at the same time with the wAP ax

ToTheFull · Tue Oct 22, 2024 1:16 pm

No nore me lol.... @nickshore is your place going to add them anytime soon ?

ReLe · Tue Oct 22, 2024 1:58 pm

Finally, ordered mine via SHL in Sweden.
What is SHL, a webshop? I can't find any distributor that has the device available for order.
Waiting mainly for the Getic to have it in stock, since they also carry the mtik mugs, broke my previous mug and want to order the mug at the same time with the wAP ax

Getic will receive stock today/tomorrow, got message from their support.

massinia · Tue Oct 22, 2024 3:00 pm

Deleted

ToTheFull · Tue Oct 22, 2024 3:20 pm

The Ethernet cable can be routed via the back so why wouldn't you ?

Kindis · Tue Oct 22, 2024 4:29 pm

Finally, ordered mine via SHL in Sweden.
What is SHL, a webshop? I can't find any distributor that has the device available for order.
Waiting mainly for the Getic to have it in stock, since they also carry the mtik mugs, broke my previous mug and want to order the mug at the same time with the wAP ax

It is Satellithuset (https://www.routerboard.se)

infabo · Tue Oct 22, 2024 9:59 pm

Getic will receive stock today/tomorrow, got message from their support.

Just ordered one wAP ax from Getic a few minutes ago.

ToTheFull · Tue Oct 22, 2024 10:45 pm

getic don't have any with a UK plug, my distributer will have them in stock in 1-2 weeks so they say

anav · Wed Oct 23, 2024 1:42 am

getic don't have any with a UK plug, my distributer will have them in stock in 1-2 weeks so they say

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/shop ... bwOSAmiw5g

maigonis · Wed Oct 23, 2024 1:17 pm

getic don't have any with a UK plug, my distributer will have them in stock in 1-2 weeks so they say

Well, wap ax, as other MT devices, can be powered in so many ways. The worst case is as mentioned a post before - use EU to UK adopter.

ReLe · Wed Oct 23, 2024 1:45 pm

It is Satellithuset (https://www.routerboard.se)

Thanks good to know for future purchases, when I googled SHL all I found was swededn hockey league. Ordered mine from Getic last night, was probably 2nd to buy it after infabo, since they had 599/600 stock when I placed order. Will receive it tomorrow or friday, will report back how well it performs.

infabo · Wed Oct 23, 2024 5:17 pm

Ordered mine from Getic last night, was probably 2nd to buy it after infabo, since they had 599/600 stock when I placed order

Stock was 600 when I ordered mine. Grats!

ToTheFull · Wed Oct 23, 2024 6:04 pm

Thanks for the tips, I was just bemoaning the fact the UK market isn't interested!
Mikrotik is a dirty word in the UK, not entirely sure why, maybe too many Ubi shills receiving free goods for review.

infabo · Wed Oct 23, 2024 6:45 pm

All the evil stuff comes from EU...lol

ToTheFull · Wed Oct 23, 2024 6:49 pm

I am the lone defender of Mikrotik wifi in the UK

gigabyte091 · Wed Oct 23, 2024 8:00 pm

Still not available at my distributor...

infabo · Wed Oct 23, 2024 8:40 pm

Will receive it tomorrow or friday, will report back how well it performs.

As mine arrives only next Tuesday I am curious for your first hand experience.

maigonis · Wed Oct 23, 2024 11:43 pm

Got it today and here is first impressions:

7.17beta4

iperf3 -c server.local -P 5 -t 30 -R

TX power max per regulatory domain, will vary per ch. Tested on multiple chs.

AP around 2m away from STA. STA uses Intel AX210 wlan card whit not that powerful integraded laptop antenas, Fedora linux.



wifi speed tests:

2.4, 20mhz - 150

Power draw: 7w sending


5ghz, 160mhz - avg 800-900, peaks 920 (tops out 1G interface). 70% CPU load , both cores, icq about the same.

5ghz, 80mhz - avg 600-700, peaks 800.

Power draw: 8w sending on widest ch



Power draw idle: 5w

Overall comparing to hap ax3 and cap ax I did feel less powerful antennas, but as you can see, drop is not that much (hap ax3/cap ax pushed about 100mbps more on 80mhz wide ch overall). Otherwise resources are tighter than hap ax3/cap ax, but should not be a problem as this device is meant to be used as AP.

ToTheFull · Thu Oct 24, 2024 12:25 am

Be nice to see what it does with the 2 ports bonded together ?

infabo · Thu Oct 24, 2024 12:28 am

AX devices released this year all seem to have 256MB RAM and these IPQ-50xx boards.

maigonis · Thu Oct 24, 2024 1:28 am

Be nice to see what it does with the 2 ports bonded together ?

As CPU is limited I dont expect much, there is no switch chip afaik, so there is no way to hw offload it.

AX devices released this year all seem to have 256MB RAM and these IPQ-50xx boards.

Indeed, if not all outdoor ax lineup is based on the same hw design. So base performance/features will be the same, only difference will be signal strength as antenna gain changes. That will impact throughput to a degree and range.

ToTheFull · Thu Oct 24, 2024 11:19 am

Another question if i may, what is the output from the following please.

interface/wifi/radio/reg-info country="United Kingdom" 0

erlinden · Thu Oct 24, 2024 12:32 pm

Is the regulation info hardware depending? I always thought that it was fixed?

ToTheFull · Thu Oct 24, 2024 3:30 pm

Or output power on 2745 set to UK is all good!

maigonis · Thu Oct 24, 2024 4:25 pm

Another question if i may, what is the output from the following please.
Code: Select all
interface/wifi/radio/reg-info country="United Kingdom" 0

Ekrānattēls_20241024_162224.png

It should be the same on other ax outdoor units whit the same hardware as we discussed before. I compared it whit hap ax3 and its the same.

infabo · Thu Oct 24, 2024 6:00 pm

Now product page is online: https://mikrotik.com/product/wap_ax

Ethernet test results are way behind wAP ac performance. see https://mikrotik.com/product/wap_ax#fndtn-testresults
But to be expected: 4 core vs 2 core.

Larsa · Thu Oct 24, 2024 6:29 pm

As an AP, bridging is more than adequate and the routing test results don't really matter much as difference isn't that significant anyway. It's only relevant if you're planning to use the AP as your main router.

infabo · Thu Oct 24, 2024 7:14 pm

cAP ax is also an AP - but stronger (1GB RAM vs 256MB, quad core, etc.). But is maybe "user capacity" related.

Amm0 · Thu Oct 24, 2024 7:22 pm

AX devices released this year all seem to have 256MB RAM and these IPQ-50xx boards.

I'm curious how ZeroTier does on these. The IPQ-40xx in older ac wAP did always seem like a stretch with ZeroTier installed (beyond fitting in 16MB, noticeable on CPU/mem/flows).

Since I recall reading ZeroTier does not like 32-bit OSes much. I'm assuming the new wAP is 64-bit RouterOS, but not 100% ... since PDF might be lossy on the details.

infabo · Thu Oct 24, 2024 7:49 pm

https://mikrotik.com/product/wap_ax says it is ARM 64bit.

ToTheFull · Thu Oct 24, 2024 8:32 pm

Is this a typo then...

https://cdn.mikrotik.com/web-assets/pro ... 241051.pdf

Specifications
Product code wAPG-5HaxD2HaxD
CPU Dual-Core IPQ-5010 800 MHz
CPU architecture ARM 64bit (RouterOS 32bit)
Size of RAM 256 MB

Thu Oct 24, 2024 9:24 pm

On AX Lite it is the same.
64-bit processor with 32-bit OS

Amm0 · Thu Oct 24, 2024 9:42 pm

Ah, it's was PDF that has the OS bit-ness, it's the website that does not. At least I'm not crazy.

On AX Lite it is the same.
64-bit processor with 32-bit OS

64-bit mean memory addressing. So with 256MB of RAM... you can use up more memory storing 64-bit "pointers" when 32-bit would do.

I'm not too worried. Since wAPac are ~half the specs of this one. And, for my use cases (LTE), this iteration still isn't too useful.

I still like to see "Pro" model with more memory and M.2 slot. The form factor is good, so Mikrotik is right to tout that.

Ca6ko · Thu Oct 24, 2024 11:05 pm

I looked at the description of the new wifi device. Since it is a radio device, I am primarily interested in the description of the radio parameters - transmitter power and receiver sensitivity, antenna characteristics - directivity and gain.
And what could I read on the device page?
The only thing I found is the gain of antennas 2,4GHz-2,5dBi 5GHz -2,5dBi with a directivity of 360 degrees. (an antenna with 360 degree directivity is called a non-directional antenna).

Screenshot_28.jpg

And if you open the data on the antenna that Mikrotik sent to the FCC, there are completely different characteristics of antennas.

Screenshot_31.jpg

Also in the brochure and in the specification sheet the speed is different

Screenshot_29.jpg

Screenshot_30.jpg

Such actions can be classified as
“Lack of reliable information about the product” or ”Providing false information about the product.”

infabo · Fri Oct 25, 2024 12:46 am

The fun thing is: 6.9dbi and 7dbi were also listed on the product page early today. It was changed/updated to 2.5dbi later.

infabo · Fri Oct 25, 2024 12:51 am

Such actions can be classified as
“Lack of reliable information about the product” or ”Providing false information about the product.”

No, this is classical lack of quality assurance.

Ca6ko · Fri Oct 25, 2024 8:55 am

Everything flows, everything changes ...

infabo · Fri Oct 25, 2024 10:24 am

As long as ROS knows the correct antenna gain I am fine.

woland · Fri Oct 25, 2024 10:43 am

As an AP, bridging is more than adequate and the routing test results don't really matter much as difference isn't that significant anyway. It's only relevant if you're planning to use the AP as your main router.

It sounds irrelevant, but in case you add LTE or hopefully in the future 5G, it will start making sense.
Which is the case for one of my setups, in form of a WAPac LTE6 kit. There the traffic towards Internet can´t exceed 350Mbps, so that little WAPac does routing+WLAN ap for the garden+LTE modem+Firewall+Capsman. So this is the firewall and WLAN controler for another APs, no additional router needed, just a HEXpoe. Low power consumption, low cost and most importantly very compatible with my wife. CPU was never a limiting factor.
In the future it might become a bottleneck, especially if there will be a WAPax 5G kit in the future, what I hope.

infabo · Fri Oct 25, 2024 11:03 am

They can still use another hardware for the LTE/5G versions.

woland · Fri Oct 25, 2024 11:31 am

Yes, you are hopefully right, the WAPac comes with different CPUs as well IPQ-4018 for my WAPac LTE6 and QCA9531 for the WAPac LTE kit. According to the test results, there is a 10x performance difference. I hope we will see sthg similar for the ax generation of WAPs as well.

massinia · Fri Oct 25, 2024 12:11 pm

Overall comparing to hap ax3 and cap ax I did feel less powerful antennas, but as you can see, drop is not that much (hap ax3/cap ax pushed about 100mbps more on 80mhz wide ch overall). Otherwise resources are tighter than hap ax3/cap ax, but should not be a problem as this device is meant to be used as AP.

Thanks for your tests

I would like to install it on the ceiling instead of an old cAP, do you think it is suitable or is the antenna very directional?

infabo · Fri Oct 25, 2024 12:59 pm

https://fccid.io/TV7WAPGR52AX/Test-Repo ... on-7634095

Here they say: 6.9 and 7. If that is wrong - is this they provided incorrect information to FCC on certification?

erlinden · Fri Oct 25, 2024 1:23 pm

I would like to install it on the ceiling instead of an old cAP, do you think it is suitable or is the antenna very directional?

wAP can be securely fixed to any external wall or roof from the inside of the case

infabo · Fri Oct 25, 2024 6:07 pm

Everything flows, everything changes ...

Now AX3000 again.

ReLe · Fri Oct 25, 2024 11:14 pm

As mine arrives only next Tuesday I am curious for your first hand experience.

Tested quickly against HAP AX3 indoors, will install wap tomorrow to outside.
iperf results with my S24U mobile, running ping tools pro, iperf tool to my proxmox host in gigabit lan. Avg of 10 tests, both routers are on top of living room shelf, managed by wifiwave capsman and do not have 5G on simultaniously. I live in Finland, so wifi is set to Finland ruleset.

Tested 5G AX only.

HAP AX3 ROS 7.15:
-1m from router: 817M
-10m away in another room, door open, line of sight to router: 449M
-10m away in another room, door open, phone on desk: 341M
-10m away, Kitchen table line of sight to router: 422M
-15m away, in laundry room, beyond kitchen: 241M
-20m away, in bathroom beyond laundry :71M

WAP AX ROS 7.16.1:
-1m from router: 628M
-10m away in another room, door open, line of sight to router:432M
-10m away in another room, door open, phone on desk: 258M
-10m away, Kitchen table line of sight to router: 340M
-15m away, in laundry room, beyond kitchen: 205M
-20m away, in bathroom beyond laundry :67M

Interested to see tomorrow how wifi works outside mounted on my carport ceiling.

massinia · Sat Oct 26, 2024 7:39 pm

both routers are on top of living room shelf, managed by wifiwave capsman and do not have 5G on simultaniously.

Tested 5G AX only.

Also same wireless channel?

ReLe · Sat Oct 26, 2024 9:36 pm

Also same wireless channel?

Yes, same wireless channel, both had same config via capsman.

WAP AX Outdoor wall installation, at 3 meters height, direct eye contact 5G AX to my S24U
Right below the wall WAP is mounted, 2-3m from wall, 640M bursts avg 520M
10 meters 440M
30 meters 180M
35 meters 70-110M
40 meters nogo-bursts 20-40M

wapax_wolid.jpg

wapax_mounted.jpg

jmrackley1 · Sun Oct 27, 2024 6:16 pm

Will it be available in black? In my situation, black blends in much better than white.

maigonis · Sun Oct 27, 2024 6:54 pm

I also did a quick test outside, AP was set to 5500, 40mhz wide ch,TX power 23 as allowed per Latvia regulations. Tests results are from 50m distance away, line of sight, AP mounted at 2nd floors hight on my balcony, so not ideal conditions.

Test laptop has Intel ax210 wlan card, but antennas are quite week, so assume results are close to worst case scenario (love this device for these type of tests).

Phone results are from Samsung S22, sorry but no modulation view, as its quite hard to manage multiple apps from small screen. As you can see pushes around two times more than laptop.

Modulations on laptop at that distance was around 16qam 2x2, or 64qam 1x1, changed over time.

Its a wap, so I expect similar performance to other wap series. If you need more power and are planning to cover hi-dense environment there are more suited devices for that, like mANTBox ax 15s. Overall it performs fine - meets my expectations. But I would like to see better CPU and more RAM (also back version as already mentioned) as I tend to do more processing on APs. But that a niche use case and I understand that wifi6+ requires more resources overall and its hard to cram up all that in wap case.

pie sienas.png

Screenshot_20241027_180741_Termux.jpg

infabo · Thu Oct 31, 2024 2:10 am

Something is pretty wrong with their published specifications:

2024-10-31_01-03.png

- 2.5dbi for 2ghz
- 7dbi for 5ghz

So far so good.
Reported TX-power is like both antennas have 7dbi. That's what basically the PDF @ ffcid.io said: 6.9dbi 2ghz, 7dbi 5ghz. And that is what is burned into ROS as well.

2024-10-31_01-09.png

2024-10-31_01-11.png

- 30 - 7 = 23
- 20 - 7 = 13

So damn product page go to hell.

mkx · Thu Oct 31, 2024 11:21 am

Reported TX-power is like both antennas have 7dbi. That's what basically the PDF @ ffcid.io said: 6.9dbi 2ghz, 7dbi 5ghz. And that is what is burned into ROS as well.

It may be a coincidence, but you're interpreting things wrong.

What ROS reports as country-info is not what device can do, it's per-country regulatory limit (coukd be it's device specific, but above all it's country-specific) of EIRP (which includes antenna gain).

What product page specifues is chipset capability ... and the table includes Tx power backoff (due to inccreasingly complex modulation and due to non-linearity of power amplifier) ... the other table shows Rx sensitivity which is degrading with increasingly complex modulation (which require increasingly good SINR) due to poor Rx design and poor Rx power pre-amplifier.
What the ac vs. ax table screenshot shows is the difference in required power-backoff needed for ax vs N ... and the difference required for double bandwidth on 5GHz (160MHz for wap ax vs 80MHz for wap ac).

infabo · Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:24 pm

What ROS reports as country-info is not what device can do

That is true. We don't know if device is even capable to transmit at e.g. 30dbm even if not regulatory limits would apply.

Thu Oct 31, 2024 1:39 pm

The website specifications had a copy paste error in the antenna specs.

gigabyte091 · Thu Oct 31, 2024 3:30 pm

Ordered 3 wAP ax today. Must wait until next week... First shipment was sold immediately...

massinia · Thu Oct 31, 2024 7:17 pm

It's amazing how small the text is in the quick guide sheet, I recommend everyone to have an eye exam before unboxing

For now I am really satisfied of wAP ax, with PC I can reach ~ 910 Mbps in download... I'm using it as a cAP in the ceiling.

infabo · Thu Oct 31, 2024 10:10 pm

Exactly, never seen a smaller font on any piece of paper ever. This is an achievement.

erlinden · Thu Oct 31, 2024 10:13 pm

Received 2 wAP AX's. Really like them (same case as wAP ac). One strange thing: I had to manually provision the 5GHz radio to get that to work. Not sure what caused this.

maigonis · Thu Oct 31, 2024 10:17 pm

Received 2 wAP AX's. Really like them (same case as wAP ac). One strange thing: I had to manually provision the 5GHz radio to get that to work. Not sure what caused this.

I have also noticed some software bugs, as expected for new product. So follow change logs on new ROS versions and do update.

Thu Oct 31, 2024 10:26 pm

" I had to manually provision the 5GHz radio to get that to work. Not sure what caused this." - if someone notices this scenario, please create a supout.rif file before doing the provision, and share it with us, and just in case, also if you already provisioned, make a ticket with us, so we can look into it.

infabo · Fri Nov 01, 2024 11:06 am

Something is pretty wrong with their published specifications:

2024-10-31_01-03.png

- 2.5dbi for 2ghz
- 7dbi for 5ghz

So far so good.
Reported TX-power is like both antennas have 7dbi. That's what basically the PDF @ ffcid.io said: 6.9dbi 2ghz, 7dbi 5ghz. And that is what is burned into ROS as well.

2024-10-31_01-09.png

2024-10-31_01-11.png

- 30 - 7 = 23
- 20 - 7 = 13

So damn product page go to hell.

To quote my own comment:

TX power of 13dbm is IMHO a bug. My cap ac always transmitted at 18dbm and according to product page they both have similar antenna gain.

Practical it means: the received signal strength on client of 2.4ghz is similar to 5ghz. Usually the 2.4ghz signal is much much stronger than 5ghz. And I would estimate the signal strength is about 15-20dbm weaker compared to cap ac (e.g. -80dbm where it used to be -60dbm).

And dont tell me there are hardware EIRP limits that wont allow going beyond 13dbm lol. Regulatory domain is Austria. When there is a 2.5dbm antenna inside, then 13dbm tx power is a huge bug.

mkx · Fri Nov 01, 2024 11:31 am

Regulatory domain is Austria. When there is a 2.5dbm antenna inside, then 13dbm tx power is a huge bug.

After reading all the posts in this thread, with special focus on your posts, I still don't understand your reasoning ... I don't know from where exactly you took the 13dBm figure (you posted some pretty cropped screenshots which IMO don't illustrate anything). So please kindly explain your claims more extensively and include links to references instead of crafting your own illustrations. Only this way your thoughts can be evaluated by others ... they will then come as revelation to us ... or we'll be able to find inconsistencies in your arguments.

mkx · Fri Nov 01, 2024 12:56 pm

I think I understand your confusion, so I'll try to explain things.

Tx power, used at any given moment, is capped by 3 independent limits:

country regulatory limits of EIRP which includes antenna gain
These limits can be per frequency sub-band and can include other things (e.g. TPC capability which depends on wireless driver used, hence displayed regulatory limits can vary between MT device models)
chipset Tx power capability
This varies per modulation scheme used - power backoff, as I alrwady mentioned in my previous post
Tx power settings
It's possible to manually set Tx power on radio interface

And the Tx power is capped to lowest of the above 3 limits.

Now let's get concrete with wAP ax in Austria and 2.4GHz, it seems you were using this band when you complained about 13dBm of Tx power:

EIRP is limited to 20dBm on 2.4GHz band in Austria.
Substract the 2.5dBi of antenna gain and we get 17dBm of Tx power (ROS works with integer power figures and they are rounded down not to exceed EIRP even by a tiniest margin).
wAP ac, OTOH, has 2.4GHz antenna gain specced at 2dBi, calculation yields limit for Tx power of 18dBm (due to rounding reasons).
chipset power limits are published on product pages for most products. Newly introduced debices get that info slightly later, so currently the info is missing for wAP ax. But we can extrapolate things a bit: hAP ax lite is run by same SoC and 2.4GHz radio is run by SoC-built-in radio hardware, so I think we can safely assume the same limits apply.
Now: for fastest modulation, available for N standard (MCS7) on 2.4GHz band, Tx power limits are: 22dBm (wAP ac) and 17dBm (hAP ax lite)
For fastest modulation, available for AX standard (MCS11) on 2.4GHz, Tx power limit on hAP ax lite is 15dBm
I'll assume you did not manually set Tx power, so this bullet won't apply in this case

So: when operating wAP ax in AX mode in Austria, max Tx power well never exceed 15dBm ... because chipset Tx power capability is the lower value of limiting factors.
At the same time on wAP ac, the Tx power will be capped at 18dBm because country limitation of EIRP is limiting Tx power.

Now, what does this all mean in practice? BSSID is transmitted at lowest configured speed (with wifi-qcom* drivers that's not even user-configurable IIRC), meaning it'll be transmitted at 1Mbps. On both wAP ac and hAP ax lite (so predumably on wAP ax as well) Tx power is limited by EIRP and thus range of wireless "cell" is exactly the same (at least in direction where each device's antenna has best gain). But the difference in chipset Tx power capabilities means that near the cell border (and depenfing on station Rx sensitivity) wAP ac will be able to provide N-speeds (it'll still be able to trsnsmit at country-regulatory allowed power) and same (barely just, but still) also hAP ax lite (and wAP ax). However, hAP ax lite (and wAP) won't be able to ptovide AX speeds at thst distance due to chipset power being limited.
However, in reality things are worse ... due to Rx sensitivity which degrades very steeply with increased MCS number. If one used a pair of sane devices to form a link, then with hAP ax lite max path loss for AX speeds would be (15dBm + 2dBi - -61dBm + 2dBi) 80dB (for N speeds on hAP ax lite that's 94dB and on wAP ac that's 96dB) ...

A simpler way of assessing needed RSSI for certain setvice level is to look at Rx sensitivity ... adjusted by "actual" Tx power backoff of the peer device. For wAP ac there is no actual power backoff (at all speeds Tx power is limited by EIRP allowed), so one needs at least -74dBm received signal strength to enjoy N throughputs. For hAP ax lite, N doesn't cause actual power backoff, so one needs at least -75dBm of RSSI for N throughputs ... but for AX throughputs there's 2dBm of actual power backoff (due to chipset limitations), so minimum RSSI to enjoy full AX throughputs is (-61dBm - 2dBm) -59dBm.
The calculation is, of course, different for each station model as they have different Tx power limits (per MCS) and different Rx sensitivity ... and calculation is different for each direction meaning it's expected to see asymmetrical throughput results when RF path loss exceeds minimum value (calculated fir both directions).

infabo · Fri Nov 01, 2024 2:28 pm

On both wAP ac and hAP ax lite (so predumably on wAP ax as well) Tx power is limited by EIRP and thus range of wireless "cell" is exactly the same (at least in direction where each device's antenna has best gain)

And why do I observe worse RSSI on the same distance?

massinia · Fri Nov 01, 2024 3:02 pm

" I had to manually provision the 5GHz radio to get that to work. Not sure what caused this." - if someone notices this scenario, please create a supout.rif file before doing the provision, and share it with us, and just in case, also if you already provisioned, make a ticket with us, so we can look into it.

Happened to me too, it seems caused by the configuration of the bands 2.4/5 GHz
SUP-170141 created

EDIT: MikroTik support explained me the correct provisioning configuration.

Thanks Guntis

erlinden · Fri Nov 01, 2024 3:09 pm

Turned out my provision rules did not meet the new MAC address on the 5GHz radio and therefore wasn't provisioned. The 2.4GHz provision rule wasn't bound to a MAC address "filter" and could therefore be provisioned.

mkx · Fri Nov 01, 2024 4:56 pm

On both wAP ac and hAP ax lite (so predumably on wAP ax as well) Tx power is limited by EIRP and thus range of wireless "cell" is exactly the same (at least in direction where each device's antenna has best gain)
And why do I observe worse RSSI on the same distance?

How much worse are your observations?

You'd have to investigate that. My first guess would be non-isotropic antennas on all devices involved (i.e. even if they are all declared as being omni-directional, they are not exactly omni-directional). And due to that, RSSI difference of around 5 dB can be expected. If you're measuring using a smart phone while holging it in your hand, you are affecting measurements with your hand and body (your body can act as a reflector or attenuator depending on how signal teavels betwern both wifi link peers). And the effect is hard to replicate, hence sequential measurements, if done trully independently, will come with differences in results again.

Exact measurements of RF propagation is far from trivial task. Measurements of antenna radiation patterns even more so. Normal wifi devices are reporting RSSI only infrequently (and possibly with irregular time intervals in between), so it's hard to notice irregularities in RSSI ... Professionals use a receiving antenna with highly toroidal radiation pattern and a high-precission receiver with high frequency of RSSI reporting. Then the Rx antenna is rotated around Tx antenna do that Rx antenna is pointing towards Tx antenna with exactly the same point (and has thus exactly the same gain for every single measurement). All of that inside a measurement chamber (which foesn't reflect RF and doesn't pass RF from exterior. The distance between both antennas has to be large enough for Tx antenna radiation pattern to form ... complex antennas can be "group antenna" (or array antenna), consisting of many simple antennas (such as simple dipole) and it takes tens of wavelengths of distance before individual signals sum up into wanted RF field (constructive interference in direction of main beam, destructive annihilation in other directions). Simple antennas, used in typical WiFi devices, don't need so much distance to "show the real self", around 10 wavelengths is enough, in case of 2.4GHz that's around 1 meter.

infabo · Fri Nov 01, 2024 8:34 pm

5ghz signal is good as far as I can tell.

robmaltsystems · Sat Nov 02, 2024 11:26 pm

Is this going to suffer from the SA timeout (relabeled disconnect) as other AX devices?

infabo · Sun Nov 03, 2024 1:33 am

I don't see a difference in wifi-qcom-ac vs wifi-qcom regarding the SA query thingy. They happen over the day, but they have a reason like device out of reach. Have an AX200 notebook and no issue. But only a few days of experience yet.

Regarding the signal strength:

I put my phone flat on a table and have analiti app running. Watching signal strength. cap ac and wap ax at same location, one active at a time:

cap ac:
5ghz: -64 to -62dbm
2ghz: ~-54dbm

wap ax:
5ghz: -65 to -61dbm
2ghz: ~-65dbm

While 5ghz signal is quite comparable, the 2.4ghz signal is weak. Seems to me that signal reporting on connected BSSID is more accurate, as it changes up/down over time.

With the cap ac the mobile devices had a very good roaming experience. Furthest parts in my floor I have 5ghz signal of about -80dbm, whereas 2.4 was like -70dbm. In such cases roaming happened smoothly. Now with wap ax The signals are equal: -80dbm 5ghz == -80dbm 2.4ghz. Roaming does not happen - why should it? Both signals are equally low. And when I move towards AP both signals get better at same time.

mavrick · Sun Nov 03, 2024 3:34 pm

Where can I find the wireless features of WAP AX? This is important information for a wireless device!
Now does 5 Ghz radio have a 7 dBi antenna, because it is on the website but not in the Brochure?
What speed is the device capable of, because the website first said 1200 for 5 Ghz radio power, now it says 2400?
Can it then operate on 160Mhz channel?

infabo · Sun Nov 03, 2024 5:22 pm

Can't answer on the antenna gain question. But it supports 160mhz channel so it is AX2402 / AC1733.

Sun Nov 03, 2024 5:46 pm

Can't answer on the antenna gain question. But it supports 160mhz channel so it is AX2402 / AC1733.

Are you sure about that ?
Since wAP AX processor is IPQ5010 whereas AX2/3 and cAP AX have IPQ6010 which is supposed to be a superior processor (from what I can find).
Yet those last mentioned models can not handle 160MHz wide channels.

Unless that QCN-6102 in between has something to do with it ... (QCN-5052 on those other ones and that chip can not go over 80MHz).

Have you seen your client devices registering with 160MHz channel ?
Just wondering...

infabo · Sun Nov 03, 2024 6:12 pm

Of course I am sure about this. I see this via various places. First hand on client devices supporting that, then on registration table the advertised PHY speed and then on "interface wifi monitor"

See viewtopic.php?p=1106982&sid=142f7322189 ... c#p1106355

Count the "e" and "C". 20mhz each. 160 in sum.

Sun Nov 03, 2024 8:22 pm

Interesting ...
Just ordered one from Getic (as well as new Hex

)
Should get it somewhere this week.

infabo · Sun Nov 03, 2024 9:40 pm

I am more worried about the low 2.4ghz coverage.

Josephny · Sun Nov 03, 2024 10:09 pm

I am more worried about the low 2.4ghz coverage.

What does "low 2.4ghz coverage" mean exactly?

mkx · Sun Nov 03, 2024 11:11 pm

Unless that QCN-6102 in between has something to do with it ...

If one can rely on block duagram, then it's QCN-6102 chip (and not the SoC) which is running the 5GHz radio. And various unreliable online sources say it supports 160MHz bandwidth and 2x2 MIMO.

mkx · Sun Nov 03, 2024 11:14 pm

I am more worried about the low 2.4ghz coverage.
What does "low 2.4ghz coverage" mean exactly?

@infabo wrote in another thread that he observed 2.4GHz radio at mostly the same RSSI as 5GHz ... while usually it would be a bit stronger. Didn't post too many details though.

gotsprings · Mon Nov 04, 2024 7:02 am

I am more worried about the low 2.4ghz coverage.

How far are you trying to go?

Ca6ko · Mon Nov 04, 2024 1:09 pm

And various unreliable online sources say it supports 160MHz bandwidth and 2x2 MIMO.

These are the most unreliable

https://mikrotik.com/product/l23ugsr_5haxd2haxd
https://mikrotik.com/product/netmetal_ax

infabo · Mon Nov 04, 2024 2:19 pm

But we can extrapolate things a bit: hAP ax lite is run by same SoC and 2.4GHz radio is run by SoC-built-in radio hardware, so I think we can safely assume the same limits apply.
Now: for fastest modulation, available for N standard (MCS7) on 2.4GHz band, Tx power limits are: 22dBm (wAP ac) and 17dBm (hAP ax lite)
For fastest modulation, available for AX standard (MCS11) on 2.4GHz, Tx power limit on hAP ax lite is 15dBm

hap ax lite is not the only device using the same SoC (IPQ-5010) with builtin 2.4ghz wireless. There are several ones. see https://mikrotik.com/products/matrix. Grep for "IPQ-5010".
And from these devices - all sharing the same SoC - you chose hap ax lite with the by far "lowest" values in the wireless specification table. All other devices show way higher transmit values in the specification table. And I think when to "extrapolate", then don't compare a wAP ax (which is mostly designed for outdoor) with some "hap ax lite" low-cost indoor device (as it may be "trimmed down" on purpose).

And generally: that Mikrotik did not publish "wireless specifications" table despite wap ax is being sold already right now makes me wonder. Device goes through all the hardware certification processes upfrront and upon launch there is a) "copy paste"-errors on antenna gain values on product page b) missing specifications.

Mon Nov 04, 2024 3:11 pm

It will probably not deviate from FCC certification info or they might have to redo the whole thing. That can be a costly joke ...

infabo · Mon Nov 04, 2024 3:19 pm

Well, then we have to take this granted: https://fccid.io/TV7WAPGR52AX/Test-Repo ... on-7634095

Infos on wap ax product page change on a daily basis. Today it says "7dbi" for both 2.4ghz and 5ghz again. That matches with fccid.io antenna measurements pdf. So these are most probably the true antenna gain values.

So now it makes sense: tx-power is within limits of regulatory domain (Austria). 13dbm for 2.4ghz and 23dbm for 5ghz. I could try another regulatory domain with higher EIRP limits - but I dont want to mess arround with country settings. Unless someone names me one "super-loose" country I could test the maximum values.

mkx · Mon Nov 04, 2024 7:23 pm

Unless someone names me one "super-loose" country I could test the maximum values.

Brazil is a "super-loose" country when it comes zo 2.4GHz band (30dBm Tx power). Pretty high Tx powers on 5GHz as well.

BTW, what does /interface/wifi/radio/print detail show set to min-antenna-gain? Acvording to your observations it should be set to 7 for both radios.

mkx · Mon Nov 04, 2024 7:38 pm

And from these devices - all sharing the same SoC - you chose hap ax lite with the by far "lowest" values in the wireless specification table.

I chose hAP ax lite because it poped up in my mind the first. Yes, it may be a poor choice ... but it does illustrate that Tx power can vary between devices built around same SoC. And until we get the numbers for wAP ax, we have to brace ourselves for the worst

infabo · Mon Nov 04, 2024 7:53 pm

BTW, what does /interface/wifi/radio/print detail show set to min-antenna-gain? Acvording to your observations it should be set to 7 for both radios.

 2   min-antenna-gain=7 hw-type="QCA5018" 

 3   min-antenna-gain=7 hw-type="QCN6122"

mkx · Mon Nov 04, 2024 8:00 pm

BTW, what does /interface/wifi/radio/print detail show set to min-antenna-gain? Acvording to your observations it should be set to 7 for both radios.
2 cap="MikroTik@xxxx" radio-mac=xxx tx-chains=0,1 rx-chains=0,1 bands=2ghz-g:20mhz,2ghz-n:20mhz,20/40mhz,2ghz-ax:20mhz,20/40mhz ciphers=tkip,ccmp,gcmp,ccmp-256,gcmp-256,cmac,gmac,cmac-256,gmac-256 min-antenna-gain=7

[snip]

Yup, 7dBi for both bands. So by setting country=Brazil, then Tx power should go up to 23dBm (if chipset is not limited lower than that).

infabo · Mon Nov 04, 2024 8:18 pm

Why do clients then see weaker signal? Are higher gain antennas better for AP RX direction? Besides beeing more directional.

JohnTRIVOLTA · Mon Nov 04, 2024 8:32 pm

Country=Australia can increase the radio coverage on 2.4GHz!

mkx · Mon Nov 04, 2024 9:08 pm

Why do clients then see weaker signal? Are higher gain antennas better for AP RX direction? Besides beeing more directional.

Country limitation is about EIRP ... which is in most WiFi cases reduced to: Tx power + antenna gain. So the higher antenna gain, the lower Tx power ... but for clients the effect is the same, either wax there's same RSSI some distance away from antenna.

However: antenna can not produce RF energy, antenna can only focus RF energy in certain direction which automatically means less energy in other directions. By definition there is no trully omni-directional antenna with gain higher than 0dBi. So with wAP ax having antenna gain of +7dBi it means that outside main lobe (charts say that main lobe is around +-45° around center of front direction) signal strength will be considerably lower (charts say that in back direction RSSI will be around 17dBm lower than in main direction). And who knows what's along vertical axis ...

Antenna gain works both for Tx and Rx, so antenna will "amplify" signal, coming from direction of main lobe. At the same time it'll "degrade" signals from other directions ... which can actally be good if these signals are interference and that means better SINR (which means higher throughputs). Even if interference is coming from same general direction and would antenna "amplify" interference as well, using antenna with decent gain is still good ... there's always some uncorrelated interfrence, such as thermal noise, which ultimately defines noise floor (sometimes also referred to as "background noise").

infabo · Tue Nov 05, 2024 12:22 am

[admin@MikroTik] > system/resource/print 
                   uptime: 1d23h45m10s
                  version: 7.16.1 (stable)
               build-time: 2024-10-10 14:03:32
         factory-software: 7.15.1
              free-memory: 36.8MiB
             total-memory: 256.0MiB
                      cpu: ARM
                cpu-count: 2
            cpu-frequency: 800MHz
                 cpu-load: 2%
           free-hdd-space: 96.9MiB
          total-hdd-space: 128.0MiB
  write-sect-since-reboot: 1108
         write-sect-total: 1846
               bad-blocks: 0%
        architecture-name: arm
               board-name: wAP ax
                 platform: MikroTik

I know, free-memory tells you nothing. It is running in caps-mode with not a single extra configuration than it received from capsman server.

# 2024-11-04 23:23:13 by RouterOS 7.16.1
# software id = redacted
#
# model = wAPG-5HaxD2HaxD
# serial number = redacted
/interface bridge
add admin-mac=redacted auto-mac=no comment=defconf name=bridgeLocal
/interface wifi datapath
add bridge=bridgeLocal comment=defconf disabled=no name=capdp
/interface wifi
# managed by CAPsMAN
# mode: AP, SSID: redacted, channel: 2442/ax/Ce
set [ find default-name=wifi1 ] configuration.manager=capsman datapath=capdp disabled=no
# managed by redacted
# mode: AP, SSID: jupiter, channel: 5500/ax/Ceeeeeee
set [ find default-name=wifi2 ] configuration.manager=capsman datapath=capdp disabled=no
/interface bridge port
add bridge=bridgeLocal comment=defconf interface=ether1
add bridge=bridgeLocal comment=defconf interface=ether2
/interface wifi cap
set discovery-interfaces=bridgeLocal enabled=yes slaves-datapath=capdp
/ip dhcp-client
add comment=defconf interface=bridgeLocal
/system clock
set time-zone-name=Europe/Vienna
/system note
set show-at-login=no

mada3k · Wed Nov 06, 2024 7:54 pm

Got my wAP AX yesterday. 2.4ghz range i really disappointing, far worse than the wAP AC. No way it has 7dBi antennas.

infabo · Wed Nov 06, 2024 8:20 pm

Seems like wap ax is truly designed for outdoor usage mainly.

mavrick · Thu Nov 07, 2024 10:19 pm

I don't think it was designed primarily for outdoor use, because what they changed again in the documentation is that the antenna orientation is 180 degrees. Previously it was 360 degrees in the documentation. I would assume that it is better to work with such an antenna if it is mounted on a wall or ceiling, so it is preferable for indoor use.
So attention, for anyone who hasn't noticed, antennas don't scatter the signal 360 degrees, they scatter it 180 degrees!
Chaos is the documentation for this device!!!!!!
This will cause mistrust of this device in the future!

Amm0 · Thu Nov 07, 2024 11:18 pm

So attention, for anyone who hasn't noticed, antennas don't scatter the signal 360 degrees, they scatter it 180 degrees!
Chaos is the documentation for this device!!!!!!

Clearly a poor cut-and-paste job on the specs page. And IDK why it's hard to for the web specs to match the PDF - the PDF often has additional details (like you 180º "beam width")

But it's not so simple as 360º vs 180º, it's power in which directions be more useful. It be better if Mikrotik over-corrected the docs situation here by adding polar patterns.

jaclaz · Thu Nov 07, 2024 11:21 pm

Well, access points on external walls seem to me a rather common need.

Anyway the coverage Is surely not 180 degrees, more like 120 or less.

On the other thread here:
viewtopic.php?t=212255
the shape of emissions is described with links to the FCC documentation.

Fri Nov 08, 2024 10:36 am

Sorry about the specs, yes, there were some mistakes, we will / have corrected them. In the PDF we always try to include more information, so I suggest always opening those files too.

gotsprings · Fri Nov 08, 2024 2:12 pm

Sorry about the specs, yes, there were some mistakes, we will / have corrected them. In the PDF we always try to include more information, so I suggest always opening those files too.

I have to say... I really like how these guys include the antenna test result patterns.

infabo · Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:21 pm

I also adore how detailed Cambium includes technical specs. Normis once said there are no "antenna radiation patterns" available - IIRC too expensive - so they just have none. That may be true for "legacy" devices but for the wap ax they exist over at fccid.io. So it would be easy to put these "patterns" in the brochure/datasheet as well. Wireless specification table still missing as well. So there is room for improvement.

Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:38 pm

Related to wap ax ...

anyone noticed the order of wifi1/2 has been changed ... AGAIN ??
Wifi1 = 2Ghz
Wifi2 = 5Ghz

extract from defconf:

 /interface wifi {                                                                                                                                              
                    :local ifcId [/interface wifi find where default-name=wifi1]                                                                                                     
                        set $ifcId configuration.mode=ap channel.band=2ghz-ax disabled=no                                                                                            
                        set $ifcId channel.width=20/40mhz;                                                                                                                           
                        set $ifcId channel.skip-dfs-channels=10min-cac;                                                                                                              
                       set $ifcId security.authentication-types=wpa2-psk,wpa3-psk security.passphrase=$defconfWifiPassword security.ft=yes security.ft-over-ds=yes                   
                        :local wlanMac  [/interface get [/interface find where default-name=wifi1] mac-address];                                                                     
                        :set ssid "MikroTik-$[:pick $wlanMac 9 11]$[:pick $wlanMac 12 14]$[:pick $wlanMac 15 17]"                                                                    
                        set $ifcId configuration.ssid=$ssid

mkx · Fri Nov 08, 2024 5:37 pm

anyone noticed the order of wifi1/2 has been changed ... AGAIN ??
Wifi1 = 2Ghz
Wifi2 = 5Ghz

It may have something to do with the fact, that IPQ-5010 has only 2.4GHz WiFi built in SoC and that 5GHz radio is added by attaching separate radio chip to PCIe interface. Previous AX hardware (at least some of devices) was built around IPQ-6010 which has both 2.4GHz and 5GHz radios built in.
When routerboot initializes hardware, it initializes it in certain order and very likely built-in hardware comes before any external one. Which of built-in gets first ... might be design decission by SoC designer.

Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:24 pm

I get the explanation (and already suspected as such) but setting the order of those interfaces is something which is done by startup script.

It was already a mess when they changed from legacy to AX and now it has changed again within AX. Double mess.
Search this place when initial AX devices came out and how many posts there where about ordering of radios.

A tiny bit of consistency would be helpful for all ...

Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:30 pm

Plus note ...
It effectively does use 160MHz channel.
AX211 card in my laptop can use it just fine.

Did some rudimentary testing from laptop (using Btest windows app) over wap AX over Hex Refresh (yes, got me that too to play with) towards RB5009.
I saw speeds around and just over 900Mbps on download and 600-ish on upload.

Already connected to it all afternoon, zero drops (and Azure Remote Desktop would throw me out straigth away if a hickup happened, never happened all afternoon)

Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:41 pm

Where can I find the wireless features of WAP AX? This is important information for a wireless device!
Now does 5 Ghz radio have a 7 dBi antenna, because it is on the website but not in the Brochure?
What speed is the device capable of, because the website first said 1200 for 5 Ghz radio power, now it says 2400?
Can it then operate on 160Mhz channel?

i also hope support for 160mhz is the reason for that improvement in 5Ghz Max data rate to 2400 Mbit/s, i think 160mhz channel support will make it an interesting device for some situations

but i have an Audience its third radio also suppports 160mhz channel (also is an external/aditional radio), i tested it and i can see consistently links at 1500 - 1700 Mbit/s datarates but throughput on that radio never surpases 500-600 Mbit/s, cpu usage stuck on 25% showing only one cpu core loaded at 100%

tested with traditional wireless package and also with newer wifi-qcom-ac, same result

i hope MikroTik does not have the same problem with ax devices, Otherwise there will be no point in supporting 160MHz channels nor devices like Chateau PRO ax

Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:42 pm

Plus note ...
It effectively does use 160MHz channel.
AX211 card in my laptop can use it just fine.

Did some rudimentary testing from laptop (using Btest windows app) over wap AX over Hex Refresh (yes, got me that too to play with) towards RB5009.
I saw speeds around and just over 900Mbps on download and 600-ish on upload.

Already connected to it all afternoon, zero drops (and Azure Remote Desktop would throw me out straigth away if a hickup happened, never happened all afternoon)

When you have the chance please test if the load is distributed across multiple CPU cores

thank you

Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:51 pm

When you have the chance please test if the load is distributed across multiple CPU cores

thank you

From what I can see, it is.
Not equally distributed (sometimes up to 10% difference) but it is effectively being distributed.

mkx · Fri Nov 08, 2024 8:35 pm

... setting the order of those interfaces is something which is done by startup script.

I don't think so ... script says

:local ifcId [/interface wifi find where default-name=wifi1]
set $ifcId configuration.mode=ap channel.band=2ghz-ax disabled=no
...

So the script knows that wifi1 is 2GHz radio (... where default-name=wifi1 ...), it doesn't set default name.

Based on how linux kernel works, default device names are assigned according to order of being discovered. And discovery is performed by device drivers, so order of device driver loading does affect interface naming if there are devices of same kind handled by different driver (think of non-renamed ethernet interface names if there are different boards installed, e.g. one intel-based and one broadcom-based ... if e.g. intel driver is loaded first, then eth0 will be intel interface and eth1 will be broadcom one and vice versa when order of driver loading is reverse). But if there are multiple interfaces driven by same device driver, then interface naming depends on hardware enumeration, often based on PCI bus number ... SoC devices (or on-board devices in case of traditional computers) will most often have lower PCI bus number than those on add-on boards.

In case of RB, where only one wireless/wifi driver can be loaded at a time, interface naming doesn't depend on order of driver loading, it depends on hardware enumeration ...

What MT might have done (but they didn't think this could be important) is to add interface renaming in the startup script. Whis is not really sticky as it's possible to upload custom one so perhaps not really a sollution.

I guess we'll simply have to live with the fact that even default wlan/wifi interface name doesn't mean anything.

Fri Nov 08, 2024 8:45 pm

I was indeed referring to renaming the interfaces, bad wording from my side.
And yes, I'm also thinking we simply may have to live with it.

Anyhow, I launched a support ticket, we'll see what they say about it if they consider changing it or not.
A "No" I already have, a "yes" I can get

infabo · Fri Nov 08, 2024 8:56 pm

lol, very educational debate

Mon Nov 11, 2024 11:03 am

Support confirmed: is due to different chipset and it is not going to change.

So another thing to keep in mind when users complain about radio not functioning if wrong one got the wrong settings.

infabo · Tue Nov 12, 2024 1:28 am

Overall I'm not so much impressed by the wap ax. The shorter range in the 2.4ghz band is a major drawback for me. The 180° antenna also doesn't cover the area behind the device well. I’d prefer a 360° coverage and a stronger 2.4ghz signal. With cap ac I have a useable signal outdoors - with wap ax there is no signal at all. It would be nice to have all the features of wifi-qcom-ac (like vlan-id via datapath or the qos-classifier setting). In the end I don't see any advantage over my cap ac in my environment. Cosmetic (?) bugs like this one are then the icing on the cake why I most probably will return the wap ax.

gigabyte091 · Tue Nov 12, 2024 8:54 am

Soo... Good thing I ordered 3 of them... one to each room i want to cover with wifi...

ToTheFull · Tue Nov 12, 2024 12:30 pm

Glad I held off now, the device sounds like a bit of a wap,wap,waaaaaaaaaaap. Sorry couldn't help myself

gigabyte091 · Tue Nov 12, 2024 1:39 pm

You are waiting for WiFi 7 ?

gotsprings · Wed Nov 13, 2024 12:03 am

Soo... Good thing I ordered 3 of them... one to each room i want to cover with wifi...

Why didn't you go with the cap?

I think of wAPs as outdoor units.

jaclaz · Wed Nov 13, 2024 1:22 am

WAP has seemingly a much higher WAF.

gigabyte091 · Wed Nov 13, 2024 8:22 am

Bingo... My wife was so happy yesterday when she saw how wap ax will look like.

I do have 2 cAP ax and one ax2 in kids room but I wanted to replace them with wAP ax because it will look better on TV cabinet or shelf.

I have 3 of them, one in the living room, one in master bedroom and one in kids room so i don't think there will be any problem with coverage. I don't care about signal outdoor TBH.

Wed Nov 13, 2024 8:50 am

I replaced AX3 with wAP AX in my office / lab setup.
It's a lot more discreet and I wasn't using any of the other ether ports on that AX3.

Haven't used fixed ethernet cable anymore for my laptop since then

Wed Nov 13, 2024 11:43 am

WAP has seemingly a much higher WAF.

This !

cAP is huge and sticks out like dogs balls.

infabo · Wed Nov 13, 2024 12:41 pm

It's just that dogs balls are more pleasant to look at.