We're getting fiber internet, and the company that plows the fiber to the house is also going to put us a fiber cable between the house and detached garage/suite building (independent from the ISP, about 250 feet long).

I'm thinking I'll get a router and switch with SFP to handle the fiber directly (instead of separate media converters they mentioned).

I'm supposed to be talking to them to collaborate the type of termination - Is there a type that I should be trying to ask for? (most common, cheapest to deal with, etc)

Recommendations for inexpensive equipment? Comments on design? It's not a high demand residence, probably the most demanding is potential POE cameras.

For example, I'm looking at the hEX S router. The picture shows the SFP under "internet" label, but in my case it would be used for LAN. Is it an issue to configure it such a way?
The router would also feed an AP and other wired devices/cameras in the house from the ethernet ports, probably involving a switch to get more ports.

In the apartment/suite at the other end of the fiber, get a switch that again has SFP for fiber. It would feed an AP and possibly wired devices and camera. Maybe something like RB260GS? With the uplink on SFP, I assume all 5 ethernet could be used for devices.

Enclosing a diagram of that layout I'm thinking.

Just about every Mikrotik router with a SFP interface ( what the fiber module goes into ) should work.

While they are laying your fiber ( house to shop/apartment ) , I might also suggest laying in two Cat6 ethernet cables in the same ditch/conduit.

You might be able to get 100 Meg ( possible 1-Gig ) on those copper Cat6 cables.
Also , those two cables could also be used for telephone land-lines.

Why not an RB5009?

It has one SFP+ port
One 2,5Gbps port (eth1)
And another 7 1Gbps ethernet ports.

More than enough to your needs, no?

When it comes to infrastructure prices, multi-mode fiber and SFP modules come cheaper than single-mode ones (the later is used by telecoms because it allows for much longer distances). Just make sure the cable is OM-3 or higher, lower-specced cables don't support 10Gbps at those distances. If budget permits, go for OM-4 to be on the future-proof side. And have the cable installers terminate it with SC connectors. I'd suggest you to install cable with N*2 fiber strands, for duplex communication a pair of fibers is usually used and you want to have more than one pair for possible future expansion. Multi-strand cables are not much more expensive, splicing (terminating with connectors) might be more expensive than cable.

You can use any Mikrotik router with SFP/SFP+ port as a switch, functionality of each port is freely configurable (WAN/LAN) regardless of case inscriptions. However switching performance can depend on device model, some devices have SFP port connected to switch chip (good for switching performance between SFP port snd the rest of ports) and some devices have SFP port connected directly to CPU (good for routing but not so great for switching performance as CPU will have to deal with traffic). All (but recently announced) devices have block diagram published in their product pages and you can check the connection of SFP port there.

While they are laying your fiber ( house to shop/apartment ) , I might also suggest laying in two Cat6 ethernet cables in the same ditch/conduit.

I like the suggestion but that probably won't happen... If it was myself I maybe would, but it's my parents place. It's doing good to get the fiber to begin with (it's working out to not cost extra besides the converters on the ends or else it probably would just be cat6).

There is 1-1/4" conduit for exactly the purpose of replacing or adding in the future though (vs trying to guess now).

Why not an RB5009?

It has one SFP+ port
One 2,5Gbps port (eth1)
And another 7 1Gbps ethernet ports.

More than enough to your needs, no?

One word: cost.

I agree that would be nice, but it's my parents and the cost needs to be justified. It's probably going to be a 50/10 Mbps internet package so not like it should be high demand (it depends on the cameras but probably not many). So I don't know how to justify spending like $300 vs $100 lol.

I did get confused looking at that though, and looks like there's multiple RB5009 models. At first I thought it had active POE which may save getting a POE switch... but then I realized that's an even more expensive model (more like $400 here in Canada).

When it comes to infrastructure prices, multi-mode fiber and SFP modules come cheaper than single-mode ones (the later is used by telecoms because it allows for much longer distances). Just make sure the cable is OM-3 or higher, lower-specced cables don't support 10Gbps at those distances. If budget permits, go for OM-4 to be on the future-proof side. And have the cable installers terminate it with SC connectors. I'd suggest you to install cable with N*2 fiber strands, for duplex communication a pair of fibers is usually used and you want to have more than one pair for possible future expansion. Multi-strand cables are not much more expensive, splicing (terminating with connectors) might be more expensive than cable.

It's basically going to be whatever fiber cable the company has, it might even be the same flat cable as coming from the ISP (I asked and they said it could be, or a round cable).

We're doing good to get fiber instead of cat6 it would have been - and part of the reason is just using the cable they have versus getting cable special for this. It just means their guy has to come terminate the ends.

If you are on the cheap, you can get away with two RB260GS'. one on each side of the 250 feet fiber, list price 2x$39.95.
The "main" router (in the house), for the low speeds you are going to get from the ISP, could be an Ax2 or Ax3 (99-139$) and you would save one AP.
Or even an Ax Lite (if you don't need 5 GHz radio) for $59.

Update:

I talked to the fiber company, and they're doing a single-mode with 2 fibers.

He talked about running into a splice tray and pigtail.

Is saying we could do basically anything for the pigtail, so I'm supposed to get back to him about what I want (what I get for equipment) so that he can bring or order it.

I'm guessing this splice tray will go near the router (like beside the ISP's own) with relatively short pigtail, and he mentioned the pigtail going into the converter or router. When I mentioned a patch panel and patch cable, he didn't seem too keen or to care at least. I still think that's a good idea??

Anyway, which leaves the question of which connector, and if dual, for this equipment?

If you are on the cheap, you can get away with two RB260GS'. one on each side of the 250 feet fiber, list price 2x$39.95.
The "main" router (in the house), for the low speeds you are going to get from the ISP, could be an Ax2 or Ax3 (99-139$) and you would save one AP.
Or even an Ax Lite (if you don't need 5 GHz radio) for $59.

Hmm, that's a good thought as well. I guess I was thinking it would be more direct to come off the router to the fiber, but it probably doesn't matter much in that regard.

I'm not sure what's happening with cameras, but much of the traffic might be between cameras and NVR on the LAN anyway, if we go that route.

He talked about running into a splice tray and pigtail.

Yeah, that's pretty much standard procedure. It's usually not a big deal, but if you ask nicely, they might throw in a 30-foot (or even longer) pigtail that you can roll up in the splice tray. That way, you can move it somewhere else if you need to.

Well, if you hadn't this "fiber opportunity", anyone would have advised you a CAT6 cable, 1 Gb speed.
With the two RB260GS, you need (for single mode fiber) two of these:
https://mikrotik.com/product/S-31DLC20D-181
and thus get a 1.25 Gb connection.

A camera feed may be what 10-15 Mbps?
Higher resolution ones possibly 25 Mbps.
With 10 cameras full streaming you use in theory 1/5 of the link, you shouldn't have issues.

The theory is that at every connection you loose something or introduce a possible fail point, so the idea of a fiber patch panel isn't the best, IMHO, you would be introducing a complication (that has a cost, too) and it's not like you have to swap fiber cables (as you only have one connection).

To have a "clean" setting you may think of a wall plate *like*
https://www.amazon.com/XMSJSIY-Coupler- ... B0D52ZNPJL

He talked about running into a splice tray and pigtail.

Yeah, that's pretty much standard procedure. It's usually not a big deal, but if you ask nicely, they might throw in a 30-foot (or even longer) pigtail that you can roll up in the splice tray. That way, you can move it somewhere else if you need to.

When I asked how long of pigtail he referred to them coming in all different lengths, including he had a 10 meter APC one or something. So they probably would give good length but then it gets overkill lol. Maybe 10-foot or so it could go anywhere on the wall?

Well, if you hadn't this "fiber opportunity", anyone would have advised you a CAT6 cable, 1 Gb speed.
With the two RB260GS, you need (for single mode fiber) two of these:
https://mikrotik.com/product/S-31DLC20D-181
and thus get a 1.25 Gb connection.

A camera feed may be what 10-15 Mbps?
Higher resolution ones possibly 25 Mbps.
With 10 cameras full streaming you use in theory 1/5 of the link, you shouldn't have issues.

The theory is that at every connection you loose something or introduce a possible fail point, so the idea of a fiber patch panel isn't the best, IMHO, you would be introducing a complication (that has a cost, too) and it's not like you have to swap fiber cables (as you only have one connection).

To have a "clean" setting you may think of a wall plate *like*
https://www.amazon.com/XMSJSIY-Coupler- ... B0D52ZNPJL

Ya cat6 probably would have been normal, so the capacity here is getting overkill (if that's possible).

Hmm that's a good point about the connection adding a fail point (and cost). What I was thinking is keeping all part of their install fixed, including the pigtail - wouldn't want to damage the pigtail when messing around or something, and then need someone like them to come back, whereas a patch cable I can just get a new one. I guess could try to protect it and fasten down the router.

I'm not sure what you're showing about with the wall plate - isn't that the same idea we're talking about as a patch panel? This is going to be all mounted on wall and/or shelves in utility rooms, so nothing is going in walls. The patch panel idea is because I'm probably doing a panel for the indoor cat6, and if I just use another keystone slot for the fiber sort of thing.

Well, a wall plate Is 11$, a patch panel has at least 4 connector and It Is more around 70$, if you don't see the difference, your parents surely will.

But yes, if you are going to make anyway a panel (why?[1]) you can add a fiber keystone to It.

[1] I mean, you are not going to put together a rack, you will have what? 8-10 cabled devices at the most

With the two RB260GS, you need (for single mode fiber) two of these:
https://mikrotik.com/product/S-31DLC20D-181

I was also looking at the module compatibility/recommended, and saw the RB260GS recommends two that are single mode: S-31DLC20D as you mention, and S-35/53LC20D. My understanding is the first is a dual LC connector and need the same on each end, uses one fiber for each direction. The second option is a matching pair that uses the same fiber for transmit and receive (using different wavelengths).

Is there any advantage to the second option, or just to use a single fiber? The dual fiber is cheaper anyway (2 x 29 vs 79), so seems like dual LC is the way to go with this.

Well, a wall plate Is 11$, a patch panel has at least 4 connector and It Is more around 70$, if you don't see the difference, your parents surely will.

But yes, if you are going to make anyway a panel (why?[1]) you can add a fiber keystone to It.

[1] I mean, you are not going to put together a rack, you will have what? 8-10 cabled devices at the most

If it's going to be $70 I also say it probably won't be happening either lol, I thought I've seen cheaper.

You would just crimp the RJ45 on the ends of the cat6 building wire? It would work, although there will probably be spare cables/jacks more than switch space and just would be nice if all the building wire was fixed in case something happens to the connector (I can crimp but my parents can't )

Yep, but don't take me as an example of "clean", "neat" cables architect.
As long as something works, it is enough for me (I know people that buy patch cables with a given colour because they fit better in the environment).
I like orange cables, they give you a sense of calm urgency, something between yellow and red.

But now I understand where the misunderstanding lies , you are calling (maybe correctly) patch panel what I would call network socket box (to me a patch panel is something with two rows of sockets, one "in" and one "out" where I can put short patch cables to connect whatever in with whatever out, in a rack).

I.e. (example)
https://www.rhinocables.co.uk/search.as ... Back+Boxes
vs.
https://www.rhinocables.co.uk/search.as ... tch+Panels

If you are on the cheap, you can get away with two RB260GS'. one on each side of the 250 feet fiber, list price 2x$39.95.
....

I've been pondering over different layouts and coming back to this thought. It might not be a bad way to go if I'm thinking right.

My automatic initial reaction was to connect the fiber as directly as possible (i.e. router), potentially for "best" internet performance. But going to the switch does free up to do anything for the router.

For example, I'm seeing a "hEX refresh" which is actually cheaper than the hEX S. It seems like it would have significant better specs (I'm not sure how the CPU compares but has more RAM/storage). And looks like a recent release so potentially more updated/longer supported in the future?
Or as you say it could be something with wireless, although I was thinking an AP in a better location.

Also, a lot of the fiber traffic would potential be from a camera(s) to the NVR, and fiber going to the switch could keep that traffic off the router altogether.

But then with the kind of load this will see it's probably irrelevant lol.

I.e. (example)
https://www.rhinocables.co.uk/search.as ... Back+Boxes
vs.
https://www.rhinocables.co.uk/search.as ... tch+Panels

I think we're getting confused lol. What I'm calling patch panels is your second link called patch panels. The ones in the link isn't $70 stuff though.

I was basically just wanting to terminate the solid building cables to something fixed and then short stranded cables to the equipment, rather than run the stiffer and permanently installed cables into the equipment... but to be determined whether it's worth it.

These are just examples... it could be cat6 panel like
https://www.primecables.ca/p-312470-cab ... compatible

Or an unloaded panel and get keystone jacks, which leaves options for variety like fiber or phone
https://www.primecables.ca/p-362592-cab ... u-unloaded

The thing is many are rackmount... we'll probably need some shelves for everything anyway so maybe it's worth considering, but the rack stuff isn't cheap! (which is maybe what you're referring to)

Yep, as I see it, if you go down the rack avenue go down it in full (and it has a steep price), otherwise either have long cables from the wall or use wall plates on a box, and keystones all the way.

The Hex/hexS/hex refresh are not "rack mountable", the RB5009 or the L009 (say) and higher specs router/switches are, of course.
There are any kind of (usually 3D printed) mounting brackets for them anyway, examples:
https://www.discomp.cz/d-mt750-rackmoun ... 14550.html
or "trays", like:
https://scoop.co.za/scoop-19-inch-rack- ... eries.html

You can go "midway" with the (known) Ikea Lack hack:
https://wiki.eth0.nl/index.php/LackRack
or minimal/industrial with the (small) Mikrotik rack (19"):
https://mikrotik.com/product/rack_holder_sr_10u

But you have to consider WAF (or in your case the possibly even worse MAF/PAF - Mother Appreciation Factor or Parents Appreciation Factor), that tends to be usually very, very low unless you do something more elaborate (and expensive) *like*:
https://ikeahackers.net/2018/06/server- ... ahack.html

The "hex refresh" has just been announced, it is the latest-latest, so yes, it should run circles around a hex or hex S, the usual routing 512 bytes packet with 25 firewall filter rules test result is:
498.1 Mbps Hex refresh
265.2 Mbps Hex
265.2 Hex S
but an Ax Access Point device is still much faster:
912.9 Mbps Ax2
1145.2 Mbps Ax3
but if all you have is 50/10 Mbps from ISP, as said even an Ax Lite would do (but 2.4 GHz radio only and a "queer" shape):
310.5 Ax lite

Yep, as I see it, if you go down the rack avenue go down it in full (and it has a steep price), otherwise either have long cables from the wall or use wall plates on a box, and keystones all the way.
....

Ya I think I'm going to drop any rack stuff - while there are shelves for them and we will probably will need some (some can also mount to wall), those are pricey pieces of metal. Dad can build/mount some shelves. (which probably increases the FAF lol). That's where I'm hoping this equipment is robust/reliable for when I'm not around (or can help remotely - I can't crimp wires remotely).

I like the thought of using wall plates as cheap replacement for panel. If I figure out what boxes to put them on, just like 2-3 of these
https://www.primecables.ca/p-331078-cab ... #sku331078

or could even put a piece of wood on the wall and use low voltage brackets like
https://www.primecables.ca/p-317568-cab ... #sku317568
it probably wouldn't be a big deal for wires to be exposed behind - leaves room to work with.

That Ax series does look interesting. I didn't realize they were router and would be more performance yet (a lot of information sorting through lol).

Or you could do with a couple of these:
https://www.crxconec.com/en/product/CC-10-00026.html

You can find them as Intellinet IWP-BOX SC-6 or EAN : 4049759111489, at least here they can be found for 7/10 €/each.

I would probably go with two L009 since they are switches with SFP

I would probably go with two L009 since they are switches with SFP

Hmmm.

You must have missed the memo about the "on the cheap" requirement , you go to the OP parents telling them how it is much better to spend 2x119$=238$ instead of 2x40=80$ to be able to switch at 1352.09 Mbps (instead of a theoretical 5,774.4, capped by the 1.25 Gbps SFP) a 50/10 internet connection, while using 8W instead of 5W (which is only 3W but a 60% increase).

If the idea is to prepare in advance for a major increase of the internet connection speed or having a high speed LAN, it is of course different, but then the L009 would be anyway a bit "tight". and for the same price of the L009's maybe two CSS610-8G-2S+IN would be better (yes, SWos lite, I know).

I would probably go with two L009 since they are switches with SFP

Hmmm.
......

Hmmm indeed lol. I really don't see doing two of something like that. If it we're going to do something more advanced, it probably would be just the main router/switch side.

As far as "future proofing"... I get that too and try to keep it in mind where reasonable. But on the other hand, I don't remember a time when future proofing worked out for equipment. It seems that no matter what you get, a few years latter it's "out of date" anyway (unsupported or whatever). May as well save the money for buying later when needed. E.g. if they've increased their internet speed so much in a few years, then get what's "new" then.

Where I see future proofing the most is fixed wiring, especially where not readily accessible. That's where this fiber and conduit come in - our future proofing. Anyway...

So ya I need to justify it. If these had active POE (for cameras) would be helpful, but it appears it gets much more expensive to get a router with that.
It still does have more ethernet ports which might help a bit.

Something else I just thought of, is doing filtering at the router (like adblock and such). I have uBlock Origin on my computer for years, so I kind of forgot about ads until I saw them on someone else's device! I know my Dad watches a LOT of youtube and other things, across tablet, FireTV, etc.... I've heard of some things like Pi hole, but not familiar with it.
Now... if we could effectively block ads and junk with a router, THAT might sell it lol.

As far as pricing, we are in Canada so that may vary things a bit too. For example,
$152.40 for L009UiGS-RM from Mikrotik on Amazon right now
$162.64 L009UiGS-2HaxD-IN (I think that's the same but with 2.4 GHz AX, which may be helpful if 5 GHz isn't needed)
whereas
$207.99 for CSS610-8G-2S+IN, although there's other places that are less that might be close to the L009 above, but shipping comes in too.
In the end it's probably about the same relative comparison as the Mikrotik site, just might have to look harder for some than others.

Lots of models and specs and ideas to sort through, so I do appreciate any such suggestions and don't mean to be critical at all!

Well, RouiterOS 7 (on a beefy enough device, such as a RB5009, but given the slow internet connection also an Ax2/3 might do, cannot say) can run containers, including Pi-hole and Adguard.

No idea how complex (or simple) it is to run one.

I got back to revisiting this.

Would it be better to use a L009 router (SFP) OR hEX refresh router and RB260GS (SFP)?

My last thought was a RB260GS at each end of the fibre, and a more standard/plain router at the internet.

But currently I'm looking at the L009UiGS-RM router, and that has the SFP on switch chip and eth1 on the CPU. Seems to match to our setup in that way (instead of most routers having SFP on the CPU hindering performance).

• Ports: The L009 also has 8 ethernet ports, so effectively the same ports as hEX + RB260GS (since 2 are used to link them).
  Test results: L009 is a bit lower than the new hEX (although we're probably not high demand anyway).
  MTBF: 200,000 for L009, vs 100,000 (so more robust/longer life??)
  RouterOS license: L009 is 5, while hEX is 4 (not sure the ramifications of that)
  L009 a little neater setup contained in one unit.
  Price works out about the same here.

Is there advantages to going with the two separate units? Significant performance differences or other issues one way or another?

I don't think that the one or the other solution would give you any particular issue or advantage, they seem to me substantially the same in performance, and given the 50/100 internet speed they are both fine, speedwise.

If you can afford the higher expense, the two L009's would IMHO be better for a reason that you didn't consider having everything running RouterOs (and not SwOS).

License level and MTBF are just numbers, L4 or L5 differences make no sense (unless you have more than 200 *somethings* and need up to 500 of the same):
https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/spaces/R ... cense+keys
MTBF besides being a rough estimate and not really representative of life of the product (that may fail for whatever reasons anytime or last way longer, you never know) is large enough, if you believe it to be representative, 24x365=8,760 and 100,000/8,760=11+ years, 200,000 is almost 23 years, how will technology change in the meantime?

If you can afford the higher expense, the two L009's would IMHO be better for a reason that you didn't consider having everything running RouterOs (and not SwOS).

I will admit I didn't quite think of that angle; I did wonder a little about the SwOS. It would be nice to have them all the same, thanks for pointing out.

Another thought was to have a L009 then hEX PoE at the apartment end - partly since that has 802.3af/at PoE, which may work for cameras like the Reolink (unfortunately the L009 doesn't have active poe). I just wonder that the performance would be pretty limited, even more so with the SFP on CPU? The test results don't show that much difference between but there must be. There may be the traffic of a couple or so cameras located outside the apartment to NVR in house.

Well, a camera stream can be in order of magnitude of 2 to 4 Mbps (high resolution ones 8 Mbps), good old rule of the thumb is double the camera resolution if using (as most do) H.264, see:
https://reolink.com/blog/ip-camera-band ... lculation/

So a few cameras won't make a problem in your setup.

I actually found a good price on the L009UiGS-2HaxD-IN for $10 less (instead of $10 more) than the L009UiGS-RM, and from what I understand is they are they same except for 2.4Ghz wireless.

That might work out to use as AP in each building as well - I know only 2.4Ghz, but it is AX600, and it's rural so not really any interference other than ourselves. And I'm trying to hardwire most things anyway.

I assume that the wireless could easily be disabled if we don't want it (to not interfere or whatever)? so it seems like a no-brainer between the two l009.

And at $140, compared to $80-90 for the RB260GS or hEX PoE here, it seems worthy.

Sure, you can disable radios just fine.

Then (what I would do if radios is disabled and the antennas are unwanted) you should replace the big ears with dummy loads, to be on the safe side.

I suppose the transceiver modules are pretty dependable, or is spare a good idea? (the fibre installer said to get spare but he was also talking media converters I think)

For the single-mode 2F cable it's the S-31DLC20D that I believe suites. Can get that for $36 cad, although a couple weeks backorder. (wouldn't want to have to wait weeks and pay shipping again if failure prone)

If You are paranoid, and/or this is a critical link, spares may be a good idea. But You must be REALLY paranoid - or the link REALLY critical. These optical modules have the annoying tendency of just keep going. One would have to do something really weird to get these things to die on them.

Sure, ask around, and You will find someone with a dead module. But asking around we find all kinds of weird things, and the weirder they are, the easier to find - because they draw attention.

To be fair, 36 bucks at a 7% compound interest could become over 50$ in 5 years time.
One of Murphy's Law corollaries tells us that if a SPF fails, it will do so just after 6 PM on Friday or anyway before 1 PM on Saturday.
So one needs to evaluate if 4-5 days without the link are worth around 50 dollars.
Or more correctly if avoiding the sense of guilt for not having done enough to prevent the interruption is worth that amount of money.
Decisions, decisions, always decisions ...

LOL I figured I would get these sort of responses. I guess the other person was just being over cautious.

Where does it stop at, a spare router too... If the transceiver should last the life of the router I don't see buying anything extras for this mission critical

You know, it all depends on the family and their LIAF (Lack of Internet Acceptation Factor), staying a few days without internet might be viewed either as a good, relaxing experience or as an unbearable nightmare.

If the cameras are "just for fun" it won't be an issue, but if they are actually *needed* security cameras, the interruption of the link might become a "real" problem.

This said, personally I would rather think on how to have handy an emergency solution in case *something* (not necessarily a SFP module) goes wrong, probably a USB stick with LTE or a cheap LTE mode, or a spare old smartphone that could be used as hotspot or something like that, an used 4G router on e-bay or similar should be around the 20-25 dollars range and new below or around 50 bucks.

How to get hold of a SIM that doesn't cost (much) money on a monthly basis depends on your local offers, here in Italy a basic one would probably be about 8-10 €/month and even a relatively limited one would do for "spot" use in case of emergency, or - again it depends on your local market - your "main" subscription may allow for a secondary SIM (intended to be used on a tablet or PC) that could be a vaild failover solution if (please read as when) something fails.

For example, I'm looking at the hEX S router. The picture shows the SFP under "internet" label, but in my case it would be used for LAN. Is it an issue to configure it such a way?

It's up to you how you configure it. Reset it with no config, add all interfaces to bridge1 and set DHCP client on bridge1 to create the most basic switch setup.

Maybe something like RB260GS? With the uplink on SFP, I assume all 5 ethernet could be used for devices.

Yes, that would certainly work but only at 1GbE speeds. I would strongly recommend future proofing your setup by using two CRS305-1G-4S+IN to get 10GbE link between your buildings.