Netinstall on RM3011 Fails need help (technical questions)

Michiganbroadband · Sat Apr 19, 2025 5:55 pm

I have an RB3011 UiAS-RM cannot get a successfull netinstall to work.
RouterOS is 6.49.11 and is working on this unit.

The router works, I am able to upgrade/change firmware via the files functionality.
I cannot get the router to perform a netinstall.
I'm very familiar with the process and how it should work.
I can also netinstall witouth any problems on other RB3011 routers they work.
Do I have a bad router? corrupt or not working bootloader?
And is there any way to fix this?
I'm really puzzled and stuck on this one and I have tried a lot of things..
Updating the routeros via files, upgrading routerboot via winbox etc.
I seem to be able to update the router just fine this way. but cannot get a successful netinstall for any versiopn of routeros/netinstall.
I DO want to format/wipe the filesystem.
If I try to netinstall 6.49.11 it says "Installing" for about 5 seconds then switches to "READY" it never formats the drive or installs routeros.

If I try to netinstall 7.18.2 (using 7.18.2 netinstall software) it does TFTP transfer at the beginning and fails with "malformed packet" and the router never "shows up" in netinstall.

7.18.2 netinstall:

No.	Time	Source	Destination	Protocol	Length	Info
52063	925.877110	10.73.73.3	10.73.73.99	TFTP	60	Acknowledgement, Block: 2794
52064	925.877123	10.73.73.99	10.73.73.3	TFTP	1498	Data Packet, Block: 2795
52065	925.877863	10.73.73.3	10.73.73.99	TFTP	60	Acknowledgement, Block: 2795
52066	925.877876	10.73.73.99	10.73.73.3	TFTP	1498	Data Packet, Block: 2796
52067	925.878565	10.73.73.3	10.73.73.99	TFTP	60	Acknowledgement, Block: 2796
52068	925.878591	10.73.73.99	10.73.73.3	TFTP	1498	Data Packet, Block: 2797
52069	925.879239	10.73.73.3	10.73.73.99	TFTP	60	Acknowledgement, Block: 2797
52070	925.879251	10.73.73.99	10.73.73.3	TFTP	330	Data Packet, Block: 2798 (last)
52071	925.879494	10.73.73.3	10.73.73.99	TFTP	60	Acknowledgement, Block: 2798
52072	925.879571	10.73.73.99	10.73.73.3	BOOTP	46	Unknown BOOTP message type (112)[Malformed Packet]
52073	926.436643	ASUSTekCOMPU_09:b8:5e	Broadcast	ARP	42	Who has 10.73.73.31? Tell 10.73.73.99
52074	926.468835	10.73.73.99	10.73.73.3	UDP	46	5000 → 5001 Len=4[Malformed Packet]


6.49.11 netinstall 



7.1 Fail exits etherboot and boots OS

Try to install Routeros 6.49.11 (using netinstall 6.49.11 netinstall software)

Click "Install"
Says "INSTALLING" for 5 seconds then switches to "READY"  
Never completes.  

Small packet flow forever:  
UDP	197	5000 → 5000 Len=155   
About two packets per second.  
Netinstall never happens
I tried a number of other things (different routeros) different versions of netinstall etc.
And get similar (but different results) and netinstall not working for this unit.
Trying to keep this initial post short as possible and not including all of the other things that I tried that also did not work.

Looking for help and any other things I might try.


7.18.2 netinstall attempt: (router never shows up)

No.	Time	Source	Destination	Protocol	Length	Info
52063	925.877110	10.73.73.3	10.73.73.99	TFTP	60	Acknowledgement, Block: 2794
52064	925.877123	10.73.73.99	10.73.73.3	TFTP	1498	Data Packet, Block: 2795
52065	925.877863	10.73.73.3	10.73.73.99	TFTP	60	Acknowledgement, Block: 2795
52066	925.877876	10.73.73.99	10.73.73.3	TFTP	1498	Data Packet, Block: 2796
52067	925.878565	10.73.73.3	10.73.73.99	TFTP	60	Acknowledgement, Block: 2796
52068	925.878591	10.73.73.99	10.73.73.3	TFTP	1498	Data Packet, Block: 2797
52069	925.879239	10.73.73.3	10.73.73.99	TFTP	60	Acknowledgement, Block: 2797
52070	925.879251	10.73.73.99	10.73.73.3	TFTP	330	Data Packet, Block: 2798 (last)
52071	925.879494	10.73.73.3	10.73.73.99	TFTP	60	Acknowledgement, Block: 2798
52072	925.879571	10.73.73.99	10.73.73.3	BOOTP	46	Unknown BOOTP message type (112)[Malformed Packet]
52073	926.436643	ASUSTekCOMPU_09:b8:5e	Broadcast	ARP	42	Who has 10.73.73.31? Tell 10.73.73.99
52074	926.468835	10.73.73.99	10.73.73.3	UDP	46	5000 → 5001 Len=4[Malformed Packet]


Try to install Routeros 6.49.11 (using netinstall 6.49.11 netinstall software)
Router does show up
Click "Install"
Says "INSTALLING" for 5 seconds then switches to "READY"  
Never completes.  

Small packet flow forever:  
UDP	197	5000 → 5000 Len=155   
About two packets per second.  
Netinstall never happens

No.	Time	Source	Destination	Protocol	Length	Info
7867	67.624170	0.0.0.0	255.255.255.255	UDP	197	5000 → 5000 Len=155
7868	68.495311	ASUSTekCOMPU_09:b8:5e	Broadcast	ARP	42	Who has 10.73.73.31? Tell 10.73.73.99
7869	68.625474	0.0.0.0	255.255.255.255	UDP	197	5000 → 5000 Len=155
7870	69.500095	ASUSTekCOMPU_09:b8:5e	Broadcast	ARP	42	Who has 10.73.73.31? Tell 10.73.73.99
7871	69.626489	0.0.0.0	255.255.255.255	UDP	197	5000 → 5000 Len=155
7872	70.500616	ASUSTekCOMPU_09:b8:5e	Broadcast	ARP	42	Who has 10.73.73.31? Tell 10.73.73.99
7873	70.627937	0.0.0.0	255.255.255.255	UDP	197	5000 → 5000 Len=155
7874	71.495265	ASUSTekCOMPU_09:b8:5e	Broadcast	ARP	42	Who has 10.73.73.31? Tell 10.73.73.99
7875	71.629074	0.0.0.0	255.255.255.255	UDP	197	5000 → 5000 Len=155
7876	72.499828	ASUSTekCOMPU_09:b8:5e	Broadcast	ARP	42	Who has 10.73.73.31? Tell 10.73.73.99
7877	72.630377	0.0.0.0	255.255.255.255	UDP	197	5000 → 5000 Len=155
7878	73.004844	ASUSTekCOMPU_09:b8:5e	Broadcast	ARP	42	Who has 10.73.73.1? Tell 10.73.73.99
7879	73.631555	0.0.0.0	255.255.255.255	UDP	197	5000 → 5000 Len=155
7880	73.998166	ASUSTekCOMPU_09:b8:5e	Broadcast	ARP	42	Who has 10.73.73.1? Tell 10.73.73.99

7.1 netinstall attempt:  
Router never shows up:  
etherboot exits and roots routerOS on it's own soon after netinstall for 7.1 is ran.

Michiganbroadband · Sat Apr 19, 2025 6:20 pm

I'm able to upgrade to routeros 7.18.2 using the file menu and system\routerboard upgrade.
But still unable to do a netinstall on this router using netinstall 7.18.2
The router never shows up, the dataflow (TFTP) stops and I get the malformed packet displayed in my packet capture when it stops.

This process works fine on a different RB3011 router. and I do not get any "malformed packet" when I try to do this on a different RB3011 router.

NathanA · Sun Apr 20, 2025 5:15 am

When you say Netinstall works to one RB3011 but not to this other one, are you actually doing exact apples-to-apples comparison/testing? In other words, you are plugging eth1 of both RB3011s directly into the exact same ethernet port of the exact same PC? It's not like you are physically hooking one of them up to the PC differently than the other, or that you are using 2 different PCs in your tests, etc?

Assuming this is a fair comparison where the ONLY variable that is changing is the RB3011 itself, the only thing that occurs to me to ask is, are the working and non-working RB3011s both running the same version of RouterBOOT or not, and is RouterBOOT configured identically on both? (Have you tried resetting RouterBOOT settings to defaults on the non-working one?)

Michiganbroadband · Sun Apr 20, 2025 11:18 am

Thank you for responding and thank you for your help!

Yes I have done this very carefully and I have done everything exactly identical as you have questioned, no variances whatsoever.
Just for perfect clarification - what exactly do you mean by "Have you tried resetting RouterBOOT settings to defaults"
Yes I believe I have (I've rest everything to defaults). Multiple times for various attempts.
Both via the reset button/powerup method and via Winbox reset configuration.
I'm pretty sure you are referring to the reset button reset factory defaults method.
And I will try it yet again just to make absolute sure I tried that or tried it "enough times".
I know in some rares cases certain hardware needs to be "reset twice" to get everything.
But I have indeed tried it at least once with the routeros and routerboot that are on it now. (7.18.2).
"
Plug in the power: While still holding the reset button, plug the power cord back into the router.
Wait for the LED to blink: Continue holding the reset button until the ACT (activity) LED starts flashing.
Release the reset button: Once the LED starts flashing, release the reset button.
Wait for the reset process to complete: The router will now reset to its factory default configuration"

patrikg · Sun Apr 20, 2025 12:09 pm

Take a look at the docs on this page, to see how you reset RouterBoot to default settings, and how RouterBoot works.

https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/x/SQAoC

rplant · Sun Apr 20, 2025 1:24 pm

Hi,

Perhaps you or someone has enabled protected routerboot at some stage.

https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/spaces/R ... bootloader

Michiganbroadband · Sun Apr 20, 2025 1:59 pm

Routerboot/etherboot is not disabled.
It looks like I may need to try this with a serial console:
r - reset booter configuration
Is this different than anything you do by pressing the button to reset config?
And the only way to do this?
Does it do any more than just clear this setting?
b booter options Select which bootloader to use by default
There's only two and you can select them using the reset button on powerup.

I'm also seeing more extreme options:
e format storage Destroys all data on the NAND, including RouterOS configuration and license
I'd need to get familiar with how to get it back, backup and restore the license etc.
I'm guessing this clears everything including the boot loader.
And I'd need to figure out how to get it all back.
Probably a good learning exercise anyway, and may point out a hardware problem if there really is one.
It also flys by and mentions "CAPS mode" but does not at all explain what that is.

In any case the thing is broken and I could use to learn something new.
Oddly the router seems to be fine functionally.
It worked when I got it with 6.49.11 on it but netinstall would not work.
I was able to upgrade it to 7.18.2 (current release) using winbox and it works but still can;t perform a netinstall.
I hope to get to the bottom of whatever this issues actually is.
Thanks for the pointers, I'm still a bit lost but will eventually figure this out.
If you have more pointers or suggestions on if doing those tings I mentioned above will be --um educational just let me know what's in store.
Thanks!

rplant · Mon Apr 21, 2025 3:09 am

Check the protected routerboot option.

[admin@450] > system/routerboard/settings/print

auto-upgrade: no
baud-rate: 115200
boot-delay: 2s
enter-setup-on: any-key
boot-device: nand-if-fail-then-ethernet
cpu-frequency: auto
boot-protocol: bootp
enable-jumper-reset: yes
force-backup-booter: no
silent-boot: yes
*** protected-routerboot: enabled ***
reformat-hold-button: 20s
reformat-hold-button-max: 10m

You can disable it, then turn unit off within 60S to get disable to stick.
(Or you can just hold the reset button on power up for a time in this case between 20S and 10M)

Michiganbroadband · Mon Apr 21, 2025 9:41 am

auto-upgrade: no                        
                 baud-rate: 115200                    
                boot-delay: 2s                        
            enter-setup-on: any-key                   
               boot-device: nand-if-fail-then-ethernet
         preboot-etherboot: disabled                  
  preboot-etherboot-server: any                       
             cpu-frequency: 1400MHz                   
             boot-protocol: bootp                     
       enable-jumper-reset: yes                       
       force-backup-booter: no                        
               silent-boot: no                        
      protected-routerboot: disabled                  
      reformat-hold-button: 20s                       
  reformat-hold-button-max: 10m

Michiganbroadband · Mon Apr 21, 2025 9:44 am

What is "jumper reset?
I have the cover off and have not located any jumper or what looks like pads.
Or is this just terminology for the reset switch that also enabled etherboot?

Michiganbroadband · Mon Apr 21, 2025 9:58 am

At this point I mildly suspect a hacked or otherwise messed with bootloader(etherboot) and is one of the reasons I'd really like to to a netinstall on it.
And of course that's not working.
I'm open to completely wiping the flash/NAND format etc. and having to rebuilt it if that's an option, and a good learning experience if I can find the steps to do it.
netinstall does indeed work fine for me on a different RB3011 with the same exact network/ Windows running netinstall arrangement.
BOTH came to me used and in "good working service" from sites with 6.49.11 installed and working in service on them.
The "bad" one seems to "work fine and I upgraded it to7.18.2 via Winbox uploading rebooting and upgrading routerboot within Winbox and it seems to work fine.
Butt I don't totally trust it due to the netinstall will not work on it ordeal. And I'm wanting to learn something here.

jaclaz · Mon Apr 21, 2025 11:11 am

Mikrotik devices have TWO bootloaders.
Which one is selected at boot depends on the exact way you are resetting it.
Did you try both ways?

https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/spaces/R ... set+Button

How to reset configuration
1) Unplug the device from power;
2) Press and hold the button right after applying power;
Note: hold the button until the LED will start flashing;
3) Release the button to clear the configuration;

BUT:

Loading the backup RouterBOOT loader
Hold this button before applying power, and release it after three seconds since powering, to load the backup boot loader.

Michiganbroadband · Mon Apr 21, 2025 5:14 pm

Yes, I am long past trying things with the two different bootloaders.
The problem is with etherbooot which is separate from the two bootloaders as far as I understand.
And etherboot is separate of the two bootloader options so loading the alternate bootloader/router boot has no affect on my problem with netinstall.

jaclaz · Mon Apr 21, 2025 5:33 pm

Semi-random ideas/things to try/check.

But you have normal access to the router, don't you?
So you can try to manually set etherboot in configuration:

/system routerboard settings set boot-device=try-ethernet-once-then-nand

Even if your netinstall setup is correct and works for other router(s), you can also try to insert between the devices a "dumb" switch as this has been reported to *somehow* allow netinstall on pesky devices.

Also, double check and triple check your current firmware and exact netinstall version, just in case of some mismatch causes the issues.

What is the "ASUSTekCOMPU_09xxxx" that appears in your report?
Could it be that those ARP requests disturb netinstall?

Michiganbroadband · Tue Apr 22, 2025 4:52 am

I'm far past the putting a hub and dumb switch between the two devices, already done this.
Also the problem is NOT starting or getting etherboot to run, it runs with the button press method.
The problem is it blowing up and crashing or stopping when it is in the middle of the initial TFTP from the bootp server.
The single pc running netinstall is the bootp server.
The ARP requests are the PC itself somehow doing these and it only happens with netinstall is running.
Netinstall (bootp server) has it's own IP address aside from the PC ip address on the same subnet.
I think it may be the PC ARPING netinstalls IP address.
I also see these while the other "good" RB3100 that does the netinstall just fine.
Yes, the "bad" RB3011 works fine other than netinstall not working on it which this post is about.
The PC (running netinstall) and the RB3011 are the only things on the network.
I of course before even posted here tried all of these things that are asked about including a dumb switch a hub and a direct connection between the two.
Same results in all cases I have tried.

NathanA · Tue Apr 22, 2025 7:52 am

After all of your tests and answers, I am inclined to think you are right that there is something uniquely wrong with the one 3011 unit. Now the obvious question is, what is it?

First, just to clear up a few possible misconceptions:

Netinstall does NOT re-flash RouterBOOT. If there is something wrong with your RouterBOOT, a Netinstall will therefore NOT fix it. Netinstall only reinstalls RouterOS itself, and reformats the part of the internal flash where RouterOS itself lives and boots from. It doesn't touch RouterBOOT at all.

Think of RouterBOOT as more like your PC's BIOS (or EFI, to use the more modern form), which is the firmware that first runs at power-up and is responsible for bootstrapping everything. While RouterOS is (hence the "OS" part of the name) like the operating system you run on your PC. Just as reinstalling Windows on your PC doesn't cause your BIOS/EFI to get re-flashed, reinstalling RouterOS does not cause RouterBOOT to be re-flashed.

I think the fact that MikroTik now releases RouterBOOT and RouterOS updates in concert with each other & uses the same version numbers for both has conflated these things in many people's minds, as well as has caused confusion with some about what exactly RouterBOOT's role is. But it did not always used to be this way...versioning of each used to be completely separate and entirely unrelated (as were the cadences of the release cycles of both). Don't let the version numbers fool you. A RouterBOOT version of 7.18.2 is just the version of RouterBOOT that happened to be released at the same time as RouterOS 7.18.2. That's all.

The way to "re-flash" RouterBOOT is simply to issue a "/system/routerboard/upgrade" command. This will cause whatever version of RouterBOOT was bundled with the currently running version of RouterOS to get flashed in place of whatever version was in flash memory before. (And, yes, it *completely* replaces the former copy of RouterBOOT during this "upgrade". So if you suspect any corruption of any kind in RouterBOOT, simply running "upgrade" should in theory fix it.) In some scenarios, it is even possible to downgrade RouterBOOT.

There are actually two copies of RouterBOOT on every RouterBOARD: the primary bootloader, and the backup bootloader. The primary bootloader is the only one that gets updated when you run a "routerboard upgrade". The backup bootloader pretty much stays at whatever version the 'board came with from the factory. The backup bootloader version is what is represented by "factory-firmware" when issuing "/system/routerboard/print". The backup bootloader is there JUST IN CASE your primary one becomes corrupt somehow, to make the hardware more difficult to permanently "brick". You can engage the backup bootloader using the particular means documented for your specific RB model in its manual. Typically, for most devices, this involves holding in Reset button BEFORE applying power, and then releasing after any length of time post-power-up. (The Reset button has multiple purposes on most models, and you can actually trigger *multiple* different actions, depending on exactly when you start holding it down, and when you let it go. If you only start holding in Reset immediately after applying power, then Reset button only affects resetting the RouterOS config and/or triggering netboot for Netinstall.)

So if you have already tried holding in Reset BEFORE powering up, and Netinstall behaves the same way, then you have already engaged the backup bootloader's services, and thus we can conclude that the problem isn't with the bootloader.

Or can we...?

Are you holding down Reset before applying power EVERY TIME you try a Netinstall? And have you ALWAYS done that? Or have you ever tried to trigger netboot on this 3011 a *different* way? If you have always done it the exact same way, every time, then maybe the problem IS with the bootloader...specifically, the backup bootloader! Is it at all possible that "factory-firmware" on your two RB3011s is NOT identical? Is it therefore possible that the version of "factory-firmware" that shipped on the troublesome 3011 is, in fact, somehow buggy in a way that prevents Netinstall from working??

The way to test this would be to engage the netboot feature in a DIFFERENT way, one that does NOT trigger the backup bootloader. These methods would be either:

...following the suggestion from "jaclaz" in the prior response, where he showed you how to trigger a netboot attempt on the next reboot, without relying at all on the Reset button (you dismissed this without considering that this does in fact behave in a quantitatively different way)
...only pressing and holding down Reset AFTER first applying power

If you try method #2 and still see the same results, honestly I think it would still be worth trying #1, just in case you are being "too quick on the draw" & the timing of your Reset button press is at all in question.

I scrolled back through your prior responses, and also didn't see you ever actually answer one of my earlier questions:

Are your two 3011s running the same version of RouterBOOT, or different versions?

You only partially answered this...you mentioned that you had upgraded RouterBOOT on the problematic 3011 to 7.18.2. But you said absolutely nothing (at least, unless I missed it) about what version of RouterBOOT the *GOOD* 3011 has on it.

So, at this point, I'll ask explicitly:

Paste the output of "/system/routerboard/print" as well as "/system/routerboard/settings/print" from BOTH 3011s. That way, we all have as much detail as we can possibly glean both about the primary AND backup RouterBOOT versions on BOTH devices, how BOTH of them are configured, as well as other potentially interesting and possibly pertinent details about any differences that there might be between the two devices (e.g., maybe one is a "r2" device and the other isn't, or something along those lines? In which case, there is also a possible *hardware* difference between them?)

In the end, I have my doubts it is a RouterBOOT problem, but...who knows?

The only other possibility that occurs to me is that there could be some kind of hardware fault with the "bad" 3011, specifically with the ether1 port. I'm wondering if it is having trouble training or maintaining a solid ethernet link as a result. If the ethernet link on ether1 is "flapping" at all while it is downloading the Netinstall payload, that would also cause the symptoms you are seeing. I have, for example, run across RB devices where somebody tried to, say, plug a PoE injector into one of the ports that doesn't support PoE input, and either fully fried it, or just partially fried it (sometimes it links, sometimes if it does it isn't reliable, and/or it takes a long time to link or to have the link stabilize, an/or it just won't link at higher speeds anymore like 1Gbit but will *eventually* auto-neg down to 100Mbit, etc.). It's not likely that is what happened here (after all, ether1 on most RBs is PoE-input-capable, and indeed the 3011 is one such model this is true of), but it could have been damaged in a different way, it could have been defective straight from the factory, etc.

rplant · Tue Apr 22, 2025 9:14 am

Following similar lines to @NathanA,

Your backup routerboot might well already be at the updated version, so the following will not be helpful. But just in case.

You can update your backup routerboot as described in the protected routerboot information linked to earlier.
It might then behave better when trying to netinstall.

jaclaz · Tue Apr 22, 2025 11:39 am

What I don't understand (but likely it is just me, there are so many things I don't understand) are the ARP requests shown.

The PC has 10.73.73.99 .
The router has 10.73.73.3.
They are the only two devices in the network.

Then WHY (the heck) is the PC sending requests for 10.73.73.1 and for 10.73.73.31?

Would changing the network addresses to a /30, with the PC 10.73.73.2 and the router 10.73.73.1 make any difference?

NathanA · Wed Apr 23, 2025 4:11 am

Then WHY (the heck) is the PC sending requests for 10.73.73.1 and for 10.73.73.31?

I do believe these are red herrings.

Undoubtedly ARP requests for 10.73.73.1 are being transmitted because I'd imagine that @Michiganbroadband configured the IP address on his ethernet interface in Windows statically, and habitually typed in "10.73.73.1" into "Default Gateway" instead of leaving it blank. So the Windows PC is occasionally trying to ARP for its default gateway, probably because Windows is trying to do an "am I online?" check to some Microsoft cloud server. Or maybe it's trying to check in with a public NTP server. Or something. Who knows! The point is that some other running process on Windows is just repeatedly trying (and failing) to get to the internet. That doesn't matter.

The ARP requests for 10.73.73.31 could have an explanation that is equally as innocent. Perhaps at one point he had another (different) device hooked up to the computer that was configured to be in the same subnet. Maybe it has a web interface, and he accessed the web interface on it, and then forgot to close the tab after unplugging the device and plugging the RB3011 in its place. So that browser tab could be trying to refresh contents of the page in the background or something. Again: doesn't matter, shouldn't make a difference. We can see that both these ARP requests and the ones to 10.73.73.1 are going unanswered, so clearly those hosts aren't on the same network right now. That the computer is trying to ARP for them just indicates that some running process on the machine wants to talk to those IPs for some reason.

Michiganbroadband · Wed Apr 23, 2025 4:48 am

Thank you VERY much for your reply and clearing up routerboot as you did.
I will indeed take the time to answer each and every one of your questions in perfect clarity.
I got super busy with a pressing project for 2-3 days that is critical and I'll have to come back to this when I get that done.
I am clear in understanding what etherboot vs routerboot are in terms of needing to use etherboot for netinstall and what etherboot does.
I have always executed etherboot the same exact way by holding the botton until it gets past both routerboot options.
Your message cleared me up on what it does versioning and about upgrading it (what exactly is getting upgraded when performing that task) I was unsure if that also had the ability to update etherboot or if it was or was not when it was done.
And yes both RB3011s are software identical in terms of OS and routerboot.
I (possibly unfortunately) upgraded both router boot and the backup routerboot to the latest version so I no longer have the old factory one installed.
But I didn't try this before trying everything else while the old routerboot was still present.
Although any of that should not have any affect on etherboot if my understanding is now correct. (unbrickable part of the firmware) *maybe* until I get out the serial console and attempt wiping everything. (if that's even permitted) and is recoverable.. Sounds like it might require Xmodem LOL. I do miss the '80s.
On my next test run I will make sure the network settings are clean (I'm pretty sure I did not have the gateway configured and the only interface enabled was the one I was using to attempt netinstalls.
The ARP stuff is a bit weird in that I see ARP requests between the netinstall Windows host AND the bootpserver IP address that is configured for the netinstall software itself.
Windows 11 also includes some "discovery protocals" bound to the interfaces by default, I could also make sure any/all of that is turned off and make sure only IPV4 is enabled on it.
But I was seeing that present with both routers (working and non-working).
I will work on getting you solid answers to your questions so we can compare EVERYTHING as you have asked.
But gimme a couple of days.
THANKS!!!

jaclaz · Wed Apr 23, 2025 12:05 pm

@NathanA
Yep, but innocent does not necessarily mean irrelevant or innocuous, while in theory they should be unrelated, in practice you never know if they do affect something.
The netinstall process is reported as being extremely fragile[1], so it is hard to say if *anything* can affect it.
In any case avoiding those ARP requests would not worsen the situation.

[1] I would describe it more like alchemy than chemistry

NathanA · Wed Apr 23, 2025 12:52 pm

The netinstall process is reported as being extremely fragile[1], so it is hard to say if *anything* can affect it.

It's pretty clear how it works. For RouterBOARDs, it's similar to, but not exactly the same as, PXE netboot (and on x86, it *IS* PXE), so, initial stage is BOOTP based, then it downloads the payload (kernel and minimal userland) into RAM that runs on the router, then this tiny OS communicates to the main Netinstall app on the host PC using an IP-over-broadcast-Ethernet protocol not completely unlike MAC-Winbox. It's the last part that is the most "delicate", just like MAC-Winbox itself can be delicate. That's when you get into the "disable all network adapters on the host PC but one", etc. advice.

It is extremely extremely extremely difficult to make any modern Windows "shut up" on the network, and this has been true since, gosh, XP? Vista? So darn well near 2 decades, at least. If random ARP requests from the host PC broke Netinstall, then it wouldn't even be possible for it to work for anybody at all under any circumstance.

Aside from that, OP has made it clear at multiple points in his many replies here that he has A/B tested both of his 3011s multiple times while connected to the same PC. One of them ALWAYS works, the other one ALWAYS does not. This tells us two things: first, that the amount of coincidence that would be required for the 3011 to somehow be not at all culpable here is extraordinarily high, and second, that the chance that his PC is only "chatty" when the "bad" 3011 is connected but is completely silent and not emitting stray ARP requests when the "good" one is connected is basically nil. If ARP requests to nonexistent hosts break the Netinstall process to the one 3011, why don't they affect the other one?

I'm not discounting the possibility that the OP is failing to tell us something that he is always doing differently between the two but is forgetting to tell us, but at this point, barring additional evidence, the most likely answer is not that these ARP requests are at fault.

rextended · Wed Apr 23, 2025 1:02 pm

If I try to netinstall 6.49.11 it says "Installing" for about 5 seconds then switches to "READY" it never formats the drive or installs routeros.

Go on control panel/ethernet connections and disable all (included eg. bluetooth, wifi, etc.) devices except the ethernet used. Not mind what you think, simply do it.

When happen what I quote, close and open netinstall again, without reboot or do anything int the device.

The device appear again without restarrt the process, try install again.

Larsa · Wed Apr 23, 2025 1:03 pm

It is extremely extremely extremely difficult to make any modern Windows "shut up" on the network, and this has been true since, gosh, XP? Vista? So darn well near 2 decades, at least. If random ARP requests from the host PC broke Netinstall, then it wouldn't even be possible for it to work for anybody at all under any circumstance.

Not true. Anyone who understands how the Windows network stack works can easily handle this with netsh or PowerShell. For someone who doesn’t, it’s obviously a problem...

NathanA · Wed Apr 23, 2025 1:32 pm

What part of, he has tried two 3011s side-by-side multiple times connected to the same PC in each instance, and one ALWAYS works with Netinstall, and the other ALWAYS does not, do people not seem to understand?

Again, could he be leaving out details? Sure. But we're going around in circles, here.

rextended · Wed Apr 23, 2025 2:11 pm

I reread everything quite carefully, but perhaps not enough, and nowhere did I read that
he netinstalled the two routerboards one after the other instead of one the month before and one today.
And I don't even think I read that when it fails with that one, putting another netinstall succeeds, etc. on various combo.
So the conditions for a fair comparison are missing.

Currently I use this netinstall here to install 7.x and it gives me no problems:
https://download.mikrotik.com/routeros/ ... 7.16.2.zip

The same for v6.x:
https://download.mikrotik.com/routeros/ ... .49.17.zip

There is also the device-mode in 7.18.2 to consider...

paste this on terminal and simply press reset button on 10 seconds.

rules for 7.18.2 code

/system device-mode
update activation-timeout=10s mode=advanced flagged=no flagging-enabled=yes bandwidth-test=yes container=no email=yes fetch=yes \
    hotspot=yes ipsec=yes l2tp=yes pptp=yes proxy=yes romon=yes scheduler=yes smb=yes sniffer=yes socks=yes traffic-gen=yes \
    zerotier=yes install-any-version=yes partitions=yes routerboard=yes

After reboot

Install by downgrading on system/packages with 7.6:
https://download.mikrotik.com/routeros/ ... .6-arm.npk

once downgraded go to system/routerboard and update the routerboot from anything to 7.6 (no matter if actual is 7.18.2 or 6.x.x)
then reboot for start with that RouterBOOT.

once restarted put this inside:
https://box.mikrotik.com/f/3bd8cc7b2a6545228377/?dl=1
reboot again and if is supported the factory firmware is upgraded from 6.x to 7.6

Now, factory upgraded or not, first paste this on terminal:

/sys routerboard settings
set auto-upgrade=yes
set baud-rate=115200
set boot-delay=2s
set boot-device=nand-if-fail-then-ethernet
set boot-protocol=bootp
set enable-jumper-reset=yes
set enter-setup-on=delete-key
set force-backup-booter=no
set init-delay=2s
set protected-routerboot=disabled
set reformat-hold-button=20s
set reformat-hold-button-max=2m
set silent-boot=no
set boot-os=router-os
set disable-pci=no
set preboot-etherboot=disabled
set preboot-etherboot-server=any
:execute "/sys rou settings set cpu-mode=regular"
:execute "/sys rou settings set regulatory-domain-ce=no"

/partitions set [find] fallback-to=etherboot

Then paste this all together on terminal and put all the results on forum (except serial number):

/sys pack pri
/sys resou pri
/sys rou pri
/sys rou export

In meantime try to netinstall the device with netinstall64 7.16.2

Michiganbroadband · Sun Apr 27, 2025 6:51 am

Hey!
I'm back at home now and I will be trying this again tomorrow from scratch and with suggestions above.
We will make sure BOTH 3011s are on the same exact config/page going into this again.
I'm pretty sure they are already BOTH identically on the "latest" firmware. but looks like the suggestions is to get them on 7.6 so we are all on the same starting point.
I never heard of device mode either. so I will have to read up on that Something new maybe? Anyhow I will get to work on this tomorrow.
I am very curious about it all.
I also have a completely different PC/Desktop to try this from this time, and I can clean up the network stack a bit to make it less chatty - to at least make packet captures easier to sift.
Will make it as simple as possible (no gateway no DNS) etc.
Although I did also try this as the many things I have tried already.
The other PC is also quite clean and shouldn't have and any issues. And it didn't matter for the RB3011 that is working with netinstall.
Thanks chat soon!!

Michiganbroadband · Sun Apr 27, 2025 9:34 pm

I am working on the bad one now.
It is in a state where routeros and routerboard are "upgraded" to 7.18.2
/system device-mode print
mode: advanced
allowed-versions: 7.13+,6.49.8+
flagged: no
flagging-enabled: yes
scheduler: yes
socks: yes
fetch: yes
pptp: yes
l2tp: yes
bandwidth-test: yes
traffic-gen: no
sniffer: yes
ipsec: yes
romon: yes
proxy: yes
hotspot: yes
smb: yes
email: yes
zerotier: yes
container: no
install-any-version: no
partitions:no
routerboard:no

This looks very restrictive.
I changed all of the values as instructed and verified the held after a reboot (by pressing the button within 10 seconds and that part worked as expected.
Just for fun tried netinstall again in this state and same failure with malformed packets reported.
I then proceeded to downgrade routeros and router boot to 7.6 as instructed.
This did not work by simply dropping the 7.6 routeros package into files and rebooting.
I also had to go into packages and downgrade, this took a couple reboots to get it right.
Routeros is now on 7.6
I then "upgraded" routerboard/routerboot to 7.6
And now we are at routeros 7.6 and routerboot 7.6 on the "bad" router.

Proceeding to next steps:
I do not at all understand your instruction:
"once restarted put this inside:
https://box.mikrotik.com/f/3bd8cc7b2a6545228377/?dl=1
reboot again and if is supported the factory firmware is upgraded from 6.x to 7.6"

"put this inside" put this inside what?
Also what is that exactly?
Furthermore we are on firmware 7.6 now - so I am not understanding the reference "6.x to 7.6"

Factory shipped firmware is 3.27 (also no longer on the backup routeros firmware slot) as I had also inadvertently upgraded that one to 7.18.2 at some point.

Michiganbroadband · Sun Apr 27, 2025 9:49 pm

I know we have not got to the next step or report yet but I'm stuck on your last instruction that didn't make any sense. "put this inside" with a web link. (also I'm working offline while doing any of this)

In this state (routeros and routerboot 7.6 installed).
Netinstall still "does not work".
But it's not working "differently".
With netinstall 7.18.2 we get the malformed packets seen in the capture and it all just hangs and does not go forward.

With 7.6 netinstall it starts a TFTP exchange then the RB3011 suddenly beeps and reboots.. exiting etherboot and booting the os.
I did notice this before when trying older versions of netinstall.
Amongst the many different things I tried (before posting here on the forum) this was noticed before.
Now that we are working from 7.6 It's going to be mentioned as it is happening here.

Michiganbroadband · Sun Apr 27, 2025 9:56 pm

I am currently doing this on an isolated vlan on one of our switches so you see some multicast.
I can easily put this on a dumb switch or hub and I have. it makes no difference with the problem in case anyone is wondering.
I cleaned up the network stack a bit just to make viewing any of these captures less burdensome. That does not really matter either.

Michiganbroadband · Sun Apr 27, 2025 11:44 pm

What is this .dpk file and what are we supposed to be doing? just drop it in files and reboot?
I'm not understanding what this step is.
Thanks.

NathanA · Mon Apr 28, 2025 1:55 am

Sigh. I fear what we have now is a "too many cooks in the kitchen" problem here, and now you are getting tossed to and fro as if by wind.

All of these suggestions about things for you to try were being thrown around here by others because they didn't trust that you had actually tried two different RB3011s side-by-side, and consistently would get two different results (one always works, one always doesn't).

So before we go off getting distracted by a bunch of unnecessary other things, let us first establish THAT fact, to the satisfaction of everybody here.

Let's all take a step back and just employ some freaking common sense. Obviously if one RB3011 works, but you haven't actually tried to Netinstall to that one again for, like, 6 months, and you are just trusting that it still works because it worked *last* time you tried it, well, that doesn't cut it. Something could have happened either to your PC or to your network in the meantime. Also obviously, if one RB3011 (still) works, the other one doesn't, but there are any differences either between their software and/or firmware versions, or the PC host you are running Netinstall from, or the network you are attaching them to, then logic dictates that any of those differences *could* potentially be the factor, and not the RB3011 itself. So we need to eliminate any of these differences, so that there is no question we are talking about a fair and direct apples-to-apples comparison here.

It seems to me that there is no reason why, rather than focusing all of your attention on the "bad" one, you can't have both "good" and "bad" sitting on your desk to play with at the same time, and switch between them during your tests. This would rather unequivocally demonstrate that the problem is somehow with one of the routers, and not with anything else that you are doing or failing to account for. You try one of them one minute, and it fails to work. You try another one the very next minute, and it works fine. You haven't done anything different in the very short span of time between testing both of them (not even PC reboots). The results of such a test would be fairly clear-cut and unambiguous.

So. At this point, you have demonstrated that the "bad" RB3011 is still "bad". Now, do the exact same things to the "good" one (downgrading it back to 7.6 or whatever, both RouterOS and RouterBOOT), and attempt a Netinstall to THAT one, using the exact same PC, with the exact same IP addresses, with the exact same version of Netinstall running on that PC, and with the "good" 3011 plugged into the network in the exact same way that the "bad" one was when it failed yet again.

Within minutes of each other, run two tests where you change ZERO variables, EXCEPT for ONE: the router itself. This is Troubleshooting 101. I read your past posts and came away believing you had already done this, but others here clearly still doubt, and to be fair it is a little ambiguous. So let's leave ZERO doubt about this, so we can move on and stop wasting time on things of no consequence.

I'm pretty sure they are already BOTH identically on the "latest" firmware. but looks like the suggestions is to get them on 7.6 so we are all on the same starting point.

It didn't need to be 7.6. They just both need to be unquestionably THE SAME, *regardless* of what that "the same" is. Because if one works with a given version of software, and the other one doesn't with THE EXACT SAME VERSION, and the results are always 100% reproducible, then it's really really hard to argue that the software is in any way, shape, or form the cause of the problem. So, no, you did not need to downgrade to 7.6 if they were both already running 7.18.2. You just needed to test both back-to-back on the same PC + network at that point, to establish there is a clear difference between two physically distinct devices of the identical model, with both running identical software.

To this point, I asked last time for you to run the following command on BOTH the working and non-working routers, and to paste the whole output here from each (with each one clearly labeled as to whether it belongs to the "good" or the "bad" one):

/system routerboard print

This will highlight not only whether they both are actually running the exact same software and firmware, but also whether there is any possible hardware difference between the two (one possibly a later revision than the other, for example?).

What is this .dpk file and what are we supposed to be doing? just drop it in files and reboot?

That's what he means, yes, just like you would with an .npk. Skip this, at least or now. All that this is for is for upgrading the backup/factory bootloader. You said you had already done this. If true, then the output of the command I gave above will prove this unquestionably to be the case.

Michiganbroadband · Mon Apr 28, 2025 4:20 am

Super.
yes for now I will just start out with doing a :
/system routerboard print
On each as they sit right now the good one and the bad one.
The good one is still "good" ( I can run any netinstall on it and it works ) and the "bad" one is still bad (can't run any kind of netinstall on it) and have it finish/succeed.
All same settings all same PC everything (except routerboard versions at this point).
Be back soon.
Thanks.

Michiganbroadband · Mon Apr 28, 2025 4:39 am

Here's how they sit right now and how I left the "good one" from a week ago since I messed with it.
I am confident that netinstalls work on the good one with the same exact setup I have available right now and that they do not work on the bad one.
I happy to try again in any order or any way you suggest or see what our next test should be.
Serial numbers edited but left some in to see that they do not appear super close together in production.

[Bad router]

routerboard: yes
model: RB3011UiAS
serial-number: 719XXXXXXX3C
firmware-type: ipq8060
factory-firmware: 3.27
current-firmware: 7.6
upgrade-firmware: 7.6

-----------------
[Good router]

routerboard: yes
model: RB3011UiAS
serial-number: 780XXXXXXX73
firmware-type: ipq8060
factory-firmware: 3.41
current-firmware: 7.18.2
upgrade-firmware: 7.18.2

NathanA · Mon Apr 28, 2025 4:59 am

Here's how they sit right now

Okay, good. We already see a difference.

Let's pretend for a second that "current-firmware" on both is the same, since you stated that at least at one point in time, they were ("bad" used to also be on 7.18.2), and you saw no change in behavior. We can come back and revisit this if necessary.

What *IS* different is something I talked about in my response from a few days ago, which is "factory-firmware".

When you engage the netboot process by pressing and holding Reset *BEFORE* powering on the device, you aren't *using* "current-firmware". You are falling back to "factory-firmware" if you trigger the netboot process with the Reset button like that. And the "bad" router has an OLDER version of "factory-firmware" than the "good" one does.

It is entirely conceivable that RouterBOOT 3.27 has some kind of netboot/netinstall related bug in it that was fixed by the time that 3.41 was released.

This was why last time I suggested that you try to, as a test, follow the advice of "jaclaz" who recommended that you try to trigger the netboot a *different* way: set System > RouterBOARD > Settings > boot-device to "try-ethernet-once-then-nand", and then issue software reboot, INSTEAD of using the Reset button. If you do it that way, then netboot is done by "current-firmware", NOT by "factory-firmware".

If that works, then we at least have some inkling that there is some kind of problem/bug in the older version of RouterBOOT for 32-bit ARM, when it comes to netbooting. It can be worked around by always asking the primary bootloader to netboot either via the method outlined above, or if you want to use the Reset button to trigger it, only start pressing Reset AFTER applying power (and seeing the LEDs come on).

Assuming this does prove to be the issue, if you want to permanently fix it, you can upgrade the "factory-firmware" using that .dpk file that rextended linked to earlier. As the MikroTik documentation calls out, this is a potentially dangerous/risky procedure. Unlike with the "current" firmware, it is not recommended that you continuously upgrade the backup/factory firmware to keep its version in line with everything else. It's supposed to be a failsafe itself for if the "current" one gets corrupted, and having something go wrong during the flashing of the "factory" firmware can risk bricking the device permanently, so it is best to only upgrade it occasionally and rarely, when absolutely needed. You have been warned.

If "try-ethernet-once-then-nand" does not fix your Netinstall issue, then at the very least we have eliminated RouterBOOT 3.27 as the likely source of the problem, and can start to look elsewhere.

I would try to pay careful attention to the ether1 link lights while it is attempting to netboot. Do you see the LEDs shut off momentarily, perhaps right around the time that things seem to go sideways? And if so, can I assume that the "good" router's ether1 LEDs do not do the same thing & show that port to be continuously linked during the Netinstall download?

Michiganbroadband · Mon Apr 28, 2025 6:11 am

So this worked perfectly, I can netinstall 7.6 now booting etherboot this way with 7.6 and netinstall 7.6 And it's repeatable and works.
I thought we had this figured out at this point.
But I cannot netinstall 7.18.2
I get the same failure and repeat "malformed packets" in the packet capture. ( I don't see anything strange with the ethernet link light or link status it looks fine)
Of course then I thought to try upgrading routeros and routerboot to 7.18.2 and trying this again with it upgraded.
I immediately ran into device-mode errors not allowing the upgrade.
So per the suggestion further above- I cleared these settings and then upgraded to 7.18.2 both routeros and routerboot and tried again.
And I'm back to the original problem when trying to netinstall 7.18.2 (where I started).
I can now netinstall 7.6 but not 7.18.2

The device-mode stuff:
I KNOW I cleared these about a week ago when testing stuff, netinstall 7.6 seems to have made these settings re-appear.
as was:

/system/device-mode> print
mode: advanced
allowed-versions: 7.13+,6.49.8+
flagged: no
flagging-enabled: yes
scheduler: yes
socks: yes
fetch: yes
pptp: yes
l2tp: yes
bandwidth-test: yes
traffic-gen: no
sniffer: yes
ipsec: yes
romon: yes
proxy: yes
hotspot: yes
smb: yes
email: yes
zerotier: yes
container: no
install-any-version: no
partitions: no
routerboard: no
attempt-count: 0

after I set them today: (again)
> /system device-mode print
mode: advanced
flagged: no
flagging-enabled: yes
scheduler: yes
socks: yes
fetch: yes
pptp: yes
l2tp: yes
bandwidth-test: yes
traffic-gen: yes
sniffer: yes
ipsec: yes
romon: yes
proxy: yes
hotspot: yes
smb: yes
email: yes
zerotier: yes
container: no
install-any-version: yes
partitions: yes
routerboard: yes
attempt-count: 0

Michiganbroadband · Mon Apr 28, 2025 6:34 am

OK here's a real kicker:
I can netinstall 7.18.2 if and only if I use the 7.6 netinstall software and manually browse and choose the 7.18.2 firmware directory that has the 7.18.2 /npk file.
this works.
But the netinstall software for 7.18.2 absolutely does not work, I get the malformed packets "loop" never goes anywhere and the router never "shows up" in the netinstall window.

The 7.18.2 netinstall software DOES work properly on the "good" router.

On the "bad" router I tried this entire process with both 7.6 netinstalled on the router and with 7.18.2 manually "upgraded" from 7.6 after it was netinstalled on the router.
The most recent test was with the router "upgraded" to 7.18.2 I was able to netinstall 7.6 using the 7.6 netinstaller. AND I was able to netinstall 7.18.2 using 7.6 netinstaller.

The 7.18.2 netinstaller does not work on the "bad" router but it works on the "good" router.
This is repeatable. all same settings same computer same IP subnet etc.

rextended · Mon Apr 28, 2025 2:27 pm

In meantime try to netinstall the device with netinstall64 7.16.2

Did you read it? I wrote it on the 23rd, but like everything else, you didn't care.
If you read the post carefully or didn't get distracted by the other roosters, at least for Netinstall you would have solved it immediately.

I then proceeded to downgrade routeros and router boot to 7.6 as instructed.
This did not work by simply dropping the 7.6 routeros package into files and rebooting.
I also had to go into packages and downgrade, this took a couple reboots to get it right.

I'm not a native speaker, and I don't write books to say a simple thing, but it was enough if you read less superficially:

After reboot

Install by downgrading on system/packages with 7.6:

You're right, too many cocks in the henhouse / coocks in the kitchen.
Lots of long speeches, lots of chatter and little action.

I already know about previous problems in peripherals that have an old factory bootloader and why.
And of course I already expected that the other router that work had bootloader version 3.4x or later.
My steps were to have you update the factory firmware.
If I say "once restarted put this inside: (link to a file)" it means, quite obviously,
to copy the file downloaded into the "files" section of winbox and reboot the device to install the .dpk
Did you do it??? From the great confusion of things written can NOT understand anything.

The procedure can fail if the chip is a old version that is not upgradable, but after the reboot you can read info on logs.
The only way you can damage/brick definitively the device is if you cut the power during the update.

What is NOW the FACTORY firmware of the "bad" router? Now is 7.6?

And about Netinstall,
as I was writing, and not by chance, in the previous post "Currently I use this netinstall here to install 7.x and it gives me no problems"
means that you had to use netinstall64 7.16.2 to put ANY version 7 of routeros (that's what 7.x means)

Michiganbroadband · Mon Apr 28, 2025 3:49 pm

It's not that I didn't care - it's that there was so much information that I had to weed through and that I had already tried on my own, and that I had to get back to it.
I finally got back to it.
The entire mystery is not solved yet.
As per my previous post to this one.
Thanks.

Factory firmware is presently 7.18.2 on both routers.

rextended · Mon Apr 28, 2025 4:01 pm

Factory firmware is presently 7.18.2 on both routers.

I don't think so, how did you update it?

factory-firmware: 3.27 on bad router / 3.41 on good router
current-firmware: 7.18.2
upgrade-firmware: 7.18.2

Premise: factory-software and factory-firmware are two completely different things that should absolutely not be confused with each other.

Netinstall is a program to install RouterOS, and it has absolutely nothing to do with RouterOS for such an "old" device (useless explanation aside).
The minimum version of Netinstall that can be used to install a RouterBOARD is at least the factory-software version.

RouterOS is the operating system,
and in turn has nothing to do with netinstall or even with RouterBOOT.
The operating system (software) has the file to update the current-firmware of RouterBOOT inside itself.
That is the version that is read in upgrade-firmware, and it is never executed, it is only present as a file inside RouterOS to update, and that's it.
factory-software is the factory-installed version of RouterOS on a RouterBOARD, and is also the minimum version of RouterOS that can be installed on top of it.

RouterBOOT is the so-called boot system, or the BIOS/(U)EFI that initializes the RouterBOARD (the physical hardware), before loading the operating system, called firmware.
The version that is normally executed at startup is called current-firmware.

There are 2 BIOS/firmware in a RouterBOARD, one factory reserve, the factory-firmware, and the other one, the current-firmware, which is used to normally boot RouterOS.

If the factory version remains old, the current-firmware does not modify some areas of the permanent memory to maintain compatibility with the old factory-firmware.

The only way to update this area is to update the factory-firmware.

Only a few specific times has MikroTik provided the tools to update the factory-firmware to specific versions because there are known bugs.
In short, all RouterBOARDs (compatible) that run v6 should have at least version 6.43.7 of factory-firmware, otherwise they must be updated, and the same thing for those who use RouterOS v7, the factory-firmware should be at least 7.6 for maximum compatibility and security.

You must stop confusing these things with each other.

Michiganbroadband · Mon Apr 28, 2025 5:12 pm

"You must stop confusing these things with each other."
I'm working on it.
My understanding is that if I set try-ethernet-once-then-nand and boot into etherboot this way I am using what has been installed/upgraded and not the old factory etherboot.

Michiganbroadband · Mon Apr 28, 2025 5:27 pm

My focus right now all else aside is etherboot and netinstall. and the problems that are going on with it.
My undertanding:
If etherboot is excecuted by holding down the reset button while powering up and waiting until it gets to etherboot this is running some old version of etherboot from the old factory firwmare.
If you enter by setting boot options from within routeros and reboot it it enters into a "newer" version of etherboot provided by upgraded (current) firmware.
So right now I am working from that point and understanding.
My statement earlier that "factory firmware" was at 7.18.2 was a mistake.
I understand what you are explaining.
Thank you.

jaclaz · Mon Apr 28, 2025 5:40 pm

If etherboot is excecuted by holding down the reset button while powering up and waiting until it gets to etherboot this is running some old version of etherboot from the old factory firwmare.

Not really, there are TWO ways of holding button:
1) press button BEFORE powering and keep it pressed WHILE booting <- old bootloader, or more properly first copy of the bootloader
2) press button IMMEDIATELY AFTER powering and keep it pressed WHILE booting <- new bootloader, or more properly second copy of bootloader
(getting the right time for the latter is often difficult).

Now the two copies can be exactly the same version (and so there is no difference between the two methods, but they are useful should one of the copies get corrupted) or two different versions.

Michiganbroadband · Mon Apr 28, 2025 8:13 pm

"Now the two copies can be exactly the same version (and so there is no difference between the two methods, but they are useful should one of the copies get corrupted) or two different versions."
You are referring to etherboot correct?
And if I updated/upgraded routerboard I would get this version when pressing the button immediately AFTER powering on and keeping it held until etherboot executes.
If I understand correctly.
Anyhow the original problem still stands and the newer 7.18.2 netisntall does not work with any version of etherboot I have tried old/original or updated.
While 7.6 netinstall appears to be working with any updated version but not the old built-in 3.27 But only on the "bad" router which has the slighter older built-in firmware than the "good" router.

rextended · Mon Apr 28, 2025 8:28 pm

On the 23rd I asked you to give some commands and write the result on the forum, but you didn't care.

viewtopic.php?t=94303#p580430
I managed to find a RouterBOARD 3011UiAS and checked it out. It has an ipq8060 chipset and the factory-firmware version is not upgradeable also with 7.6 .dpk

So use netinstall64 7.16.2 to install whatever version of RouterOS you want to put on it
and don't expect anything more from obsolete hardware (newsletter 2015) that is at least 10 years old than newer software, which in computing is an abyss.
viewtopic.php?t=103172

I still have these models in production that work fine with 6.48.7.
What is the reason to replace something that works for sure with something that maybe works?
Especially with RouterOS newer than 7.16.2...

Michiganbroadband · Mon Apr 28, 2025 10:10 pm

What is the reason to replace something that works for sure with something that maybe works?
Especially with RouterOS newer than 7.16.2...

Education, learning and familiarity how it works.
Also wanting to clearly know why Netinstall (any version) works fine on one RB3011 but not the other. Possible hacked/modified firmware etc.
I appreciate the help. But would also appreciate if you give me some space to catch up and understand.
Thanks.

Michiganbroadband · Mon Apr 28, 2025 10:19 pm

once restarted put this inside:
https://box.mikrotik.com/f/3bd8cc7b2a6545228377/?dl=1
reboot again and if is supported the factory firmware is upgraded from 6.x to 7.6

On the 23rd I asked you to give some commands and write the result on the forum, but you didn't care.

I cared, just confused and taking days to read and understand better. And I had to take a break from this, travel for work and come back to it.

Because 1. I got stuck on not understanding the instruction or what this was actually supposed to do.
2. Because I needed to go away and come back to this later (Yesterday) and I am continuing where I left off.

I am back and trying things out. There is a lot of information to try to go through and it's possible I missed something.

Michiganbroadband · Mon Apr 28, 2025 10:22 pm

I'm not a blind copy/paste try this try that etc. I take time to understand what I am doing and what things do.
If it takes days then it takes days or weeks. I appreciate all of the help and patience.

Michiganbroadband · Tue Apr 29, 2025 8:28 pm

I'm still basically stuck where I started.
Newer netinstall does not work on one RB3011 but does on the other.
And I'm not perfectly clear why.
All of these posts are indeed confusing and sorry if I missed any steps or suggestions.
Do I need to try updating the factory firmware using that .npk file that was posted?
Can we start over from this point?
This is for learning and familiarity, if we brick the "bad" RB3011 it's not an in-service production unit.
At the end of the day I appear to be able to netinstall 7.6 if and only if I boot into etherboot from the command line.
I tried also doing this by holding the reset both before and after powering the unit up to get into etherboot that way with 7.6 installed os and routerboard.
And was unable to have it work booting either of those two ways.
It only worked (netinstall 7.6) with 7.6 routeros and routerboard when I tried the "ethernet-first" option from command line and rebooting it.
I'm still not clearly understanding if this invokes a different version of etherboot than factory installed firmware for etherboot somehow, and it seems that it does.

jaclaz · Tue Apr 29, 2025 8:34 pm

Do I need to try updating the factory firmware using that .npk file that was posted?
Can we start over from this point?

yes, yes.

Start from this post:
viewtopic.php?t=216303#p1140332

Post again that info as it is now.

Then try updating the factory firmware and post again that info, BUT if the "bad" router is of the same batch/series as the one rextended tested, it may be non upgradable.

Michiganbroadband · Tue Apr 29, 2025 8:59 pm

Thanks will do!
I was posting at the same time while you were posting so maybe disregard that. it was just my thoughts at that point.

Michiganbroadband · Tue Apr 29, 2025 9:04 pm

OK cool, starting from this point.

[Bad Router]
/system routerboard print
routerboard: yes
model: RB3011UiAS
serial-number: 719xxxxxxxxC
firmware-type: ipq8060
factory-firmware: 3.27
current-firmware: 7.18.2
upgrade-firmware: 7.18.2

[Good Router]
/system routerboard print
routerboard: yes
model: RB3011UiAS
serial-number: 780xxxxxxxx3
firmware-type: ipq8060
factory-firmware: 3.41
current-firmware: 7.18.2
upgrade-firmware: 7.18.2

I also have a serial console hooked up. Much more convenient than winbox.

Michiganbroadband · Tue Apr 29, 2025 9:08 pm

I will try dropping the firmware file(.dpk file you linked) into the "bad" router reboot and get a read on that one.
Will adjust device-mode in order to allow this if it is presently not allowed.

jaclaz · Tue Apr 29, 2025 9:11 pm

Ok,
so very likely the issue is connected to:
factory-firmware: 3.27 (bad)
vs:
factory-firmware: 3.41 (good)

Now the question is whether the bad router will take the factory frmware upgrade (after having been downgraded to 7.6, following the instructions by rextended):
viewtopic.php?t=216303#p1139548

Michiganbroadband · Tue Apr 29, 2025 9:31 pm

Tried that got: FAILED to upgrade backup booter: RB is not supported
So will need to scroll back find and follow those instructions.

Michiganbroadband · Tue Apr 29, 2025 9:33 pm

Also need to do the downgrade to 7.6 first.

Michiganbroadband · Tue Apr 29, 2025 9:53 pm

We are now at this point:
/system routerboard print
routerboard: yes
model: RB3011UiAS
serial-number: 719xxxxxxx3C
firmware-type: ipq8060
factory-firmware: 3.27
current-firmware: 7.6
upgrade-firmware: 7.6

installed bb-upgrade-7.6.dpk
Log shows: "bb-upgrade-7.6 installed" no error like before.
I also saw it install on the serial console-
But we are still displaying at 3.27
/system routerboard print
routerboard: yes
model: RB3011UiAS
serial-number: 719xxxxxxxxC
firmware-type: ipq8060
factory-firmware: 3.27
current-firmware: 7.6
upgrade-firmware: 7.6

Michiganbroadband · Tue Apr 29, 2025 9:58 pm

It looks like at this point I am to proceed to these instructions:
/sys routerboard settings
set auto-upgrade=yes
set baud-rate=115200
set boot-delay=2s
set boot-device=nand-if-fail-then-ethernet
set boot-protocol=bootp
set enable-jumper-reset=yes
set enter-setup-on=delete-key
set force-backup-booter=no
set init-delay=2s
set protected-routerboot=disabled
set reformat-hold-button=20s
set reformat-hold-button-max=2m
set silent-boot=no
set boot-os=router-os
set disable-pci=no
set preboot-etherboot=disabled
set preboot-etherboot-server=any
:execute "/sys rou settings set cpu-mode=regular"
:execute "/sys rou settings set regulatory-domain-ce=no"

/partitions set [find] fallback-to=etherboot

Then paste this all together on terminal and put all the results on forum (except serial number):
Code: Select all

/sys pack pri
/sys resou pri
/sys rou pri
/sys rou export

Michiganbroadband · Tue Apr 29, 2025 10:11 pm

It did not accept some of the set commands: syntax error.
I entered these one at a time, did not paste the whole set.
[admin@MikroTik] /system/routerboard/settings> set preboot-etherboot=disabled
expected end of command (line 1 column 5)
[admin@MikroTik] /system/routerboard/settings> set preboot-etherboot-server=any
expected end of command (line 1 column 5)
and
Code: Select all
expected command name (line 1 column 1)

/system routerboard print
routerboard: yes
model: RB3011UiAS
serial-number: 719xxxxxxxxC
firmware-type: ipq8060
factory-firmware: 3.27
current-firmware: 7.6
upgrade-firmware: 7.6
[admin@MikroTik] > /sys routerboard settings

[admin@MikroTik] /system/routerboard/settings> set auto-upgrade=yes
[admin@MikroTik] /system/routerboard/settings> set baud-rate=115200
[admin@MikroTik] /system/routerboard/settings> set boot-delay=2s
[admin@MikroTik] /system/routerboard/settings> set boot-device=nand-if-fail-then-ethernet
[admin@MikroTik] /system/routerboard/settings> set boot-protocol=bootp
[admin@MikroTik] /system/routerboard/settings> set enable-jumper-reset=yes
[admin@MikroTik] /system/routerboard/settings> set enter-setup-on=delete-key
[admin@MikroTik] /system/routerboard/settings> set force-backup-booter=no
[admin@MikroTik] /system/routerboard/settings> set init-delay=2s
[admin@MikroTik] /system/routerboard/settings> set protected-routerboot=disabled
[admin@MikroTik] /system/routerboard/settings> set reformat-hold-button=20s
[admin@MikroTik] /system/routerboard/settings> set reformat-hold-button-max=2m
[admin@MikroTik] /system/routerboard/settings> set silent-boot=no
[admin@MikroTik] /system/routerboard/settings> set boot-os=router-os
[admin@MikroTik] /system/routerboard/settings> set disable-pci=no
[admin@MikroTik] /system/routerboard/settings> set preboot-etherboot=disabled
expected end of command (line 1 column 5)
[admin@MikroTik] /system/routerboard/settings> set preboot-etherboot=disabled
expected end of command (line 1 column 5)
[admin@MikroTik] /system/routerboard/settings> set preboot-etherboot-server=any
expected end of command (line 1 column 5)
[admin@MikroTik] /system/routerboard/settings> /partitions set [find] fallback-to=etherboot
[admin@MikroTik] /system/routerboard/settings> Code: Select all
expected command name (line 1 column 1)
[admin@MikroTik] /system/routerboard/settings> /sys pack pri
Columns: NAME, VERSION
# NAME VERSION
0 routeros 7.6

[admin@MikroTik] /system/routerboard/settings> /sys resou pri
uptime: 14m28s
version: 7.6 (stable)
build-time: Oct/17/2022 10:55:40
factory-software: 6.35.3
free-memory: 960.2MiB
total-memory: 1024.0MiB
cpu: ARM
cpu-count: 2
cpu-frequency: 1400MHz
cpu-load: 0%
free-hdd-space: 90.6MiB
total-hdd-space: 128.2MiB
architecture-name: arm
board-name: RB3011UiAS
platform: MikroTik
[admin@MikroTik] /system/routerboard/settings> /sys rou pri
routerboard: yes
model: RB3011UiAS
serial-number: 719xxxxxxx3C
firmware-type: ipq8060
factory-firmware: 3.27
current-firmware: 7.6
upgrade-firmware: 7.6
[admin@MikroTik] /system/routerboard/settings> /sys rou export
# mar/10/2025 15:41:21 by RouterOS 7.6
# software id = Kxxx-xxxx
#
# model = RB3011UiAS
# serial number = 719xxxxxxxxC
/system routerboard settings
set auto-upgrade=yes enter-setup-on=delete-key reformat-hold-button-max=2m
[admin@MikroTik] /system/routerboard/settings>

Michiganbroadband · Tue Apr 29, 2025 10:15 pm

Have not rebooted yet.
It's in the state you see above.

jaclaz · Wed Apr 30, 2025 12:44 pm

It did not accept some of the set commands: syntax error.
I entered these one at a time, did not paste the whole set.
[admin@MikroTik] /system/routerboard/settings> set preboot-etherboot=disabled
expected end of command (line 1 column 5)
[admin@MikroTik] /system/routerboard/settings> set preboot-etherboot-server=any
expected end of command (line 1 column 5)
and
Code: Select all
expected command name (line 1 column 1)

That is fine.
preboot-etherboot only exists starting from Ros Version 7.9:
https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/spaces/R ... outerBOARD

"Code: Select all" is not a RoS command is the way the board software shows text enclosed in [ code] [ /code] tags.

Michiganbroadband · Wed Apr 30, 2025 4:31 pm

I am stuck here wondering if I should try anything next?

jaclaz · Wed Apr 30, 2025 5:34 pm

Try rebooting.
If you are still stuck at 3.27 it should mean that that particular device belongs to a series or batch that cannot be upgraded this way.

You might then try asking support if there is another method/file/whatever to bring that particular machine to a "better" firmware, otherwise now you know that through a couple double-flips and using only a specific version of netinstall, etc. you can actually *somehow* upgrade the ROS and call it a day.

Michiganbroadband · Wed Apr 30, 2025 7:56 pm

Yep, thank you for all of your help and patience on this.
I will reach out to support to see if I can take this learning experience any further.
Going through all this taught me some new things about Mikrotik.

Michiganbroadband · Wed Apr 30, 2025 8:12 pm

I reached out to support email on this.

NathanA · Thu May 01, 2025 8:39 am

I already know about previous problems in peripherals that have an old factory bootloader and why.
And of course I already expected that the other router that work had bootloader version 3.4x or later.

You "knew about previous problems" with "old factory bootloader" and "why", but you didn't say any of this in your previous replies, and instead kept that knowledge to yourself. We are not mind readers here...we can only go off of what you actually say out loud, not what you know in your head.

Instead, all you did was give a bunch of steps, without explaining any of the thought processes behind them. But we are not interested only in "how" to fix or (more accurately) how to work around the problem, but also the "what" and "why". As in, what exactly is going on / what is the underlying cause for the problem, and why is it happening?

I was going to say that I am only speaking for myself & nobody else on this point, and of course that remains true, but it would seem OP is on the same wavelength as me here:

I'm not a blind copy/paste try this try that etc. I take time to understand what I am doing and what things do.

As for these "previous problems" with "old factory bootloader" that you speak about, I cannot find any of these problems documented anywhere. It would be helpful for you to cite your sources, even if they are second-hand / links to other forum posts that discuss this. I checked old RouterBOOT changelogs, which sadly only were updated through 3.40, and can find only a couple of mentions about "etherboot" issues on a couple of MIPSBE devices mentioned between 3.27 and 3.40 (though admittedly, back then, MikroTik's changelog entries were notoriously incomplete). Maybe the ARM-specific ones were fixed in 3.41; who knows.

Also wanting to clearly know why Netinstall (any version) works fine on one RB3011 but not the other. Possible hacked/modified firmware etc.

You don't have "hacked" or "modified" firmware. The likelihood is way higher that you are suffering from buggy firmware than it is you are suffering from "hacked" firmware.

At the end of the day I appear to be able to netinstall 7.6 if and only if I boot into etherboot from the command line.
I tried also doing this by holding the reset both before and after powering the unit up to get into etherboot that way with 7.6 installed os and routerboard.
And was unable to have it work booting either of those two ways.

It is highly likely that this is just a timing issue on your part, with when you start pressing the button. I mentioned before that this can be tricky, and that changing the setting either through the serial console or through Winbox is the only way to guarantee you are not falling back to the older, "factory" bootloader. Which is why I was asking you to run this test in that particular way.

OK here's a real kicker:
I can netinstall 7.18.2 if and only if I use the 7.6 netinstall software and manually browse and choose the 7.18.2 firmware directory that has the 7.18.2 /npk file.
this works.
But the netinstall software for 7.18.2 absolutely does not work, I get the malformed packets "loop" never goes anywhere and the router never "shows up" in the netinstall window.

I agree it is weird that you are still seeing problems when using Netinstall v7.18.2 on the one particular unit, but to be absolutely clear, your version of Netinstall does NOT have to match the version of RouterOS that you are hoping to install. Netinstall itself actually changes very infrequently. Just like MikroTik releases a new version of RouterBOOT every time they release a new RouterOS (even if they haven't actually made any changes to it!), they also release a new Netinstall with every RouterOS. But there is no requirement that you use that specific Netinstall to install that specific RouterOS. Most older Netinstalls have no problem installing newer RouterOS, and vice-versa (using new Netinstall to install old RouterOS!). This is because the internal structure of NPKs changes extremely infrequently. There are rare exceptions, but most of the time, Netinstall is really only updated to support newer MikroTik hardware.

I have personally experienced occasional buggy versions of Netinstall, so it is handy that you can do this kind of mix-and-match. That way, if a buggy version does come out, you can elect to use an older one that actually works. I'm not saying that is what is going on here with 7.18.2 (I'll get to my findings on this near the end of this post), but at the very least I wouldn't worry so much about making sure that you can use the "latest and greatest Netinstall" with any particular Routerboard product. Just use whatever works, and report to MikroTik the ones that don't so that they can fix the following releases.

Ok,
so very likely the issue is connected to:
factory-firmware: 3.27 (bad)
vs:
factory-firmware: 3.41 (good)

On the face of it & absent additional evidence, this conclusion actually doesn't make much sense. Yes, it makes sense to implicate 3.27 when you are actually booting with 3.27, and it seems clear that 3.27 is in fact buggy in some ways when it comes to etherbooting. But, if you have upgraded the "current-firmware", and are BOOTING with "current-firmware" and not "factory-firmware", then in theory, none of the code from the older "factory-firmware" is getting executed, so any bugs in it should be irrelevant.

Here is where things start getting weird...

I rummaged around our stock, and managed to find two RB3011s: an older one which actually has a "factory-firmware" of 3.27 (serial # starting with '5'), and a slightly newer one than that which actually has a "factory-firmware" of 3.41 (serial # starting with '8').

So, other than the serial #s (your two are much closer together than mine), identical to yours! What luck!

So I decided to run some tests of my own. And I can 100% confirm ALL of your findings and experiences!:

When booting with "factory-firmware" on the 3.27 unit, the TFTP download from Netinstall host fails almost immediately, every time.
When boothing with "factory-firmware" on the 3.41 unit, I have no problems with downloading the Netinstall payload via TFTP & booting it.
When upgrading the "current-firmware" on the 3.27 unit to 3.41, and then booting using "current-firmware", the Netinstall problems are fixed, EXCEPT for when I use some of the newest versions of Netinstall. However, the symptoms are different, and the TFTP download actually seems to finish (vs. never taking off to begin with), but it never boots the kernel.

So your older unit with 3.27 "factory-firmware" is not a unique outlier, further establishing that you don't have a "hacked" unit. It's just buggy, same as my sample is.

What I don't know how to explain is what the actual heck is going on here. Like I said, if you are booting from "current-firmware" instead of "factory-firmware", logic would dictate that you are not bound by whatever happens to be your "factory-firmware", and any bugs inherent to it should not be impacting you. Clearly, though, there is something about RB3011s manufactured right around this timeframe that the latest Netinstall versions aren't happy with (or, rather, the other way around: these units aren't happy with newest Netinstalls). But both of these units are blank/no revision specified (I have some "r2" 3011s, so I know for a fact there were later hardware revisions...both of my own "good" and "bad" samples, though, are clearly revision 1)/

The only idea that springs to mind is that it has something to do with how the ARM boot process works. On ARM-based MT routers, before RouterBOOT is engaged, there is some kind of pre-bootloader that starts first, and then chains to RouterBOOT. This is not seen on the other architectures. Perhaps this initial firmware can only be updated along with the "factory-firmware". So if the bug exists in there rather than in RouterBOOT proper, maybe that explains what is going on here.

I only tested with Netinstall 6.49.14, 6.49.18, 7.7, 7.17 and 7.18.2, since those were ones that I had on hand at the time. Of those, all of them worked with the older 3011 (booting from upgraded "current-firmware"), except for 7.17 and 7.18.2, which behaved identically. I am curious now to start working my way backwards through Netinstall versions until I find the newest version that can work with my "bad" unit.

If these 3011s from very early manufacturing runs truly cannot have their "factory-bootloaders" upgraded (I haven't tried on mine, but it sounds like it failed for both you and rextended, so the evidence for this is piling up), the real answer here is for MikroTik to do whatever they need to do on the Netinstall side to make it compatible with these older 3011s once again. It's clear that it is POSSIBLE to work around any of these firmware bugs on the Netinstall side...we know this because through at least 7.7 (and possibly beyond...rextended hints that 7.16.x might work but I haven't tested yet for myself), it worked just fine. Then MT clearly changed SOMEthing, and now newer Netinstalls are broken on this hardware. So if they could just fix Netinstall itself on 7.19+, then that would be enough.

rextended · Thu May 01, 2025 11:40 am

Sorry you wrote all this for nothing.
OP can't read more than 2 lines in a single post that ignores the others, and you wrote a poem...
viewtopic.php?t=216303#p1140488

It has an ipq8060 chipset and the factory-firmware version is not upgradeable

Despite what was clearly written, he (and the others) insisted in vain.

The solution is extremely simple: Use netinstall 7.16.2 (or any 7.x version that worked for him) and report/wait for MikroTik to fix the bug.

rextended · Thu May 01, 2025 11:46 am

You "knew about previous problems" with "old factory bootloader" and "why", but you didn't say any of this in your previous replies, and instead kept that knowledge to yourself. We are not mind readers here...we can only go off of what you actually say out loud, not what you know in your head.

You're right, but if you expect me to search the forum every time for the various sources I've read over YEARS, you're wrong.
Especially with the excellent search engine on the forum.
I don't think that when you do some work for a client you start explaining every detail of your experiences where you learned them.

I wrote it in post number 40, if you haven't read it it's not my fault...

If the factory version remains old, the current-firmware does not modify some areas of the permanent memory to maintain compatibility with the old factory-firmware.

Then if you send me the source codes of RouterBOOT 3.27 and Netinstall 7.18.2, I will be able to tell you exactly where the problem is.

In short, this whole post is a great demonstration of how people don't read what you write, even the parts that are not technical or difficult.

What's difficult to understand here?

In meantime try to netinstall the device with netinstall64 7.16.2

Post #26, 8 days ago

NathanA · Thu May 01, 2025 12:28 pm

What's difficult to understand here?
In meantime try to netinstall the device with netinstall64 7.16.2
Post #26, 8 days ago

Except that you're wrong, because Netinstall 7.16.2 ALSO does not work on these early 3011 routers.

I just went back from 7.18.2 one version at a time, and discovered that the last version of Netinstall to work on this generation of 3011 is 7.12.2.

Interestingly, 7.13 came out before 7.12.2 did, but 7.13 does not work.

jaclaz · Thu May 01, 2025 12:48 pm

Interestingly, 7.13 came out before 7.12.2 did, but 7.13 does not work.

So not only device naming

:
viewtopic.php?p=1140598#p1140598
also numbering of versions is the third worst in the universe.

NathanA · Thu May 01, 2025 1:46 pm

also numbering of versions is the third worst in the universe.

Eh. I get it. It's not uncommon to patch an older branch of software, for users who have already confirmed that branch works for them and don't want to take on the risk of regressions in a newer major release. (What MikroTik historically used to call "stable" and "long-term".) It's just slightly unusual because with 7.x, so far they do not tend to release another 7.x-1.y+1 release after they come out with the next 7.x. In this specific case, release notes claim that 7.12.2 was a "factory only release", so its only change was likely to make 7.12 able to run on a new revision of some RB model.

Michiganbroadband · Fri May 02, 2025 4:29 pm

Support asked me to try it in Linux which I did and still fails the same way on TFTP Stage.
I tried BOTH booters Factory and upgraded.

Sorry you wrote all this for nothing.
OP can't read more than 2 lines in a single post that ignores the others, and you wrote a poem...
viewtopic.php?t=216303#p1140488

It has an ipq8060 chipset and the factory-firmware version is not upgradeable

Despite what was clearly written, he (and the others) insisted in vain.

No you're wrong.. I read and try everything.
Just not the first time and I ask questions as I go along.
I also sometimes miss some things or don;t undertand them or have to go back and read again until I do Which I have done and have written about but you do not pay attention to that
And still insist with some attitude days later after I have understood and figured it out.
I never really thought anything was "hacked" but tried to make it clear I did not have an understandable way of verifying that it was not.
I'm also able to netinstall with older netinstall software but not with newer and that is my point and wanted to better understand why.

Anyhow also fails in Linux with either booter. (support asked me to try this).
It does TFTP for while then fails and reboots.. as detailed in the forum.

[Main Booter]:

RouterBOOT booter 7.6

RouterBOARD 3011UiAS

CPU frequency: 1400 MHz
Memory size: 1024 MiB
NAND size: 128 MiB

Press Ctrl+E to enter etherboot mode
Press <delete> key within 2 seconds to enter setup
trying bootp protocol........................................................................................................................................................................................................... failed
kernel loading failed

loading kernel... OK
setting up elf image... OK
jumping to kernel code
Starting...
Starting services...
MikroTik 7.6 (stable)
MikroTik Login:

[Backup Booter]:

RouterBOOT backup booter 3.27

RouterBOARD 3011UiAS

CPU frequency: 1400 MHz
Memory size: 1024 MiB
NAND size: 128 MiB

Press <delete> key within 2 seconds to enter setup
trying bootp protocol........................................................................................................................................................................................................... failed
kernel loading failed
..

loading kernel... OK
setting up elf image... OK
jumping to kernel code
Starting...
Starting services...
MikroTik 7.6 (stable)
MikroTik Login

Michiganbroadband · Fri May 02, 2025 4:31 pm

I also read It has an ipq8060 chipset and the factory-firmware version is not upgradeable
Despite what was clearly written, he (and the others) insisted in vain.
Long ago and I pay attention.

Still does not hurt to try and see it fail.. because I wanted to.

Michiganbroadband · Tue May 06, 2025 1:31 am

Any further thoughts?
I have a working router and I can flash it up to current if I use the older software..
So this works if I ever want to use the router.
Mikrotik responded with the expected generic questions and to "make a video of the problem".
I asked a very specific question tried to detail this down to simple terms that get to the point and that they could hopefully understand.
The failure is very simple to reproduce.
They have not responded to the ticket yet (5-days).

NathanA · Tue May 06, 2025 11:09 am

Any further thoughts?

I had assumed you saw my last responses, where I dug up two 3011s with identical "factory-firmware" versions to your two, and can reproduce the same problem you are experiencing on my one with 3.27. That seemed to settle the matter in my mind, at least as far as any concerns about defective hardware or hacked/corrupted firmware goes. Nope!: it's just buggy, is all.

I can't explain how, but at least on the 3011, the 'factory-firmware" seems to have some kind of effect on the "current-firmware". Super weird. So upgrading the "current-firmware" and then booting from it can fix some issues and at least makes Netinstall possible under certain conditions, but can't fix it to work under every scenario...whereas booting with 3.27 seems to break Netinstall completely under 100% of scenarios (at least the ones I have tested).

At this point, the only entity that is able to "fix" anything is MikroTik. So if you want Netinstall to be "perfect" on the older 3011, you will have to wait for a response from them. There is of course no guarantee that they either will fix it, or even that they can fix it (depending on what the root cause is...if any fix would require a "factory-firmware" update/flash, and if there is something that prevents that from being possible on the 3011, then you are out of luck, unless you feel like breaking out your soldering iron!)

In the meantime, as long as you have any recently modern bootloader version (7.anything) flashed to "current-firmware", and you engage etherboot using "current-firmware" and NOT "factory-firmware", my tests show that you can successfully use Netinstall 7.12 just fine (it is 7.13+ that don't work with these older 3011s) to install ANY version of RouterOS 7 -- up to and including the latest -- to your wonky 3011.

Michiganbroadband · Wed May 07, 2025 7:46 am

Yep certainly saw that!
Still waiting on MikrotiK support.
I asked this VERY specific question and asked them to also reference THIS forum post for everything we have tried.
But I boiled it down this exact issue.
They so far have not addressed my questions regarding this.
But I got *this* response this morning after waiting 5-days:

"Please try using the Netinstall version 6.48.6 specifically.
Here is the link: "
With a private download link and a password that did not work to download the file.
No description, no response to my questions (twice).
And no response today to the fact their password does not work to download the file.
This would be incredibly frustrating if I was in any hurry or if it was a really critical issue.
But I'm not and it's not.
But a bit silly.

I am curious if the file (that I can't yet download) will help anything, and what it is supposed to accomplish.

-Steve

.

mkx · Wed May 07, 2025 9:11 am

The download file would likely work fine on your RB3011 ... but if insisting on using netinstall version which matches wanted ROS version it would limit you to ROS v6.48.6 (which is not even latest v6 long-term). If you'd use that version of netinstall to install any other ROS version, then you're back to solution offered by @NathanA: use netinstall version which works fine (e.g. 7.12) and install whichever ROS version you want/need on device.

patrikg · Wed May 07, 2025 10:48 am

Hi @Michiganbroadband

Have you tried to boot a pc with usb drive with Linux live-cd image.
1. Connect to a internet router.
2. Downloaded RouterOS image and netinstall-cli.
3. Disconnect from the internet router, and direct connect to the router that you want to update.
4. Setting up the interface with static ip, something like:

sudo systemctl stop NetworkManager.service
sudo ip address flush dev eth0
sudo ip address add 192.168.88.2/24 dev eth0

5. And use netinstall-cli command.

This maybe to get around all obstacles in Windows such as antivirus, firewalls, etc.
To get around the problem of "malformed packet".

jaclaz · Wed May 07, 2025 11:33 am

@mkx
As I see it, the issue is not about updating the Ros (which has been solved with the tested workarounds), it is about updating it in such a way that the device after the update behaves like the other one

If you prefer OP has two devices, belonging to two series/batches that behave differently BEFORE the update BUT that continue to behave differently AFTER the update.

The difference is not that much relevant, in the sense that it doesn't prevent the device from working, but surely it deviates from the "normal", "standard" update procedure.

This is a common enough occurrence when something is hand made and each item slightly different, but it is about the negation of "quality" and "quality control" as intended in industry.

NathanA · Wed May 07, 2025 1:21 pm

5. And use netinstall-cli command.

This maybe to get around all obstacles in Windows such as antivirus, firewalls, etc.
To get around the problem of "malformed packet".

If you actually read through the whole thread (it's long, I know), the "malformed packet" issue is somehow a bug or fault in the old RouterBOOT 3.27 bootloader. Definitely not a Netinstall host issue. We know this because trying to load the Netinstall bootstrap with a newer RouterBOOT does not have this problem. Also, two separate people (@Michiganbroadband and myself) have now tested this, with two completely different 3011s which both have that same bootloader version, using two completely separate Netinstall hosts. I have a VM dedicated to Netinstall that I never have other problems with, and yet I experienced the exact same thing when I tried the exact same experiment.

There is a *second* problem that was encountered, though: if you upgrade RouterBOOT on a 3011 that has a very old (3.27) backup bootloader on it, and then use the new RouterBOOT, the "malformed packet" problem during the download goes away, and the TFTP download completes, but then RouterBOOT fails to boot the netboot image. But if backup bootloader is newer, somehow this problem doesn't happen. Very strange.

I suppose it could be interesting to try if netinstall-cli is somehow able to successfully feed the netboot image to the 3011 while booting from the 3.27 backup bootloader, but I very much doubt there will be a difference. If there is, it would have to somehow be with the TFTP server implementation of netinstall-cli, and not some difference with the Windows install or network stack vs. the Linux one.

@mkx
As I see it, the issue is not about updating the Ros (which has been solved with the tested workarounds), it is about updating it in such a way that the device after the update behaves like the other one

Not correct. The issue is not with updating ROS. Doing a regular ROS upgrade the regular way works just fine. The issue is with doing a Netinstall. Netinstall is not an upgrade procedure, it is a complete format-the-disk-and-reinstall-from-scratch procedure. Something you use when you want to recover from a catastrophe, like data corruption (maybe after a failed upgrade), or if you just want to ensure you have a fresh start and there is no cruft on the disk. It's actually something you should rarely need to do; however, when you do need to do it, of course it is important that it works.

The problem is that there appear to be multiple bugs in the bootloader of the older unit that prevent it from working with Netinstall. Furthermore, upgrading the bootloader (not ROS...the ROS version has nothing to do with this) does not seem to fix the issue, because when you do a normal bootloader upgrade, it only upgrades one of TWO copies of the bootloader on the flash chip. There is a "backup" bootloader for when the main one gets corrupt (if they both get corrupt, only way to fix is to desolder the flash chip from the circuit board and reprogram it!), but somehow even if you aren't using the backup bootloader, if it is the older version, that is still somehow preventing Netinstall from working. And finally, the real kicker: there is (seemingly) no way to upgrade the backup bootloader on the RB3011. So if you have one of these, unless/until MikroTik support can tell us otherwise, you just have to deal with it and know the proper workarounds for those few times you do need Netinstall.

jaclaz · Wed May 07, 2025 2:51 pm

Well, I have no different way to write "the issue is not about updating RoS".
And you have a strange way of disagreeing, by stating:

Not correct. The issue is not with updating ROS.

NathanA · Wed May 07, 2025 3:11 pm

Well, I have no different way to write "the issue is not about updating RoS".

You wrote: "the issue is not about updating the Ros [...], it is about updating it in such a way that the device after the update behaves like the other one"

This is a confusing sentence. When you used "it" in the second half, "it" is ambiguous.

"It" seemed to me to refer to "Ros", since you just finished writing "updating the Ros", and then you paralleled that with "updating [it]". So what it sounded like you were saying was, "it's not about updating ROS per-se, but about updating ROS in such a way that" the two devices behave the same? Which doesn't make any sense, and implies that we are somehow talking about a problem where, after you update ROS on both 3011s, they somehow don't run ROS in the same way as each other. Which is not true.

Perhaps you meant something else, but just in case anybody read it the same way I did...

In any case, I think @mkx understands what is at issue. What he is saying is that, yes for sure, the Netinstall 6.48.6 that MikroTik support is recommending for some unclear reason will work just fine...but it will work for the same reason that we already know, which is that any Netinstall version less-than-or-equal-to 7.12 will work. So it's no better to use Netinstall 6.48.6 than it is to use 7.12. MikroTik support's terse and unexplained response is so far completely unhelpful...almost as if they didn't bother to read the explanation of the issue!

jaclaz · Wed May 07, 2025 4:33 pm

Yep, by "it" I meant the generic "RB3011 device", sorry for the confusion/misunderstanding.

There is *something* in the first RB3011 device that makes it behave differently from the second RB3011 device.

This *something* is seemingly the 3.27 bootloader, but as you say the way it can (or cannot) be upgraded is the real issue.

sparkus · Wed May 07, 2025 11:19 pm

The download file would likely work fine on your RB3011 ... but if insisting on using netinstall version which matches wanted ROS version it would limit you to ROS v6.48.6 (which is not even latest v6 long-term). If you'd use that version of netinstall to install any other ROS version, then you're back to solution offered by @NathanA: use netinstall version which works fine (e.g. 7.12) and install whichever ROS version you want/need on device.

The use of netinstall version 6 won't limit you on RouterOS version 6.
You can install the RouterOS version 6 and 7 (any, latest, testing, etc) using netinstall version 6 if the factory installed version is <7.

NathanA · Thu May 08, 2025 12:18 am

The use of netinstall version 6 won't limit you on RouterOS version 6.

I think @mkx understands this. What he is responding to is that it seemed like the OP had originally been under the impression that Netinstall version has to match ROS version being installed, if you read earlier posts closely. So he is saying that the only "advantage" using Netinstall 6.48.6 brings vs. Netinstall 7.12 is that, if you absolutely "insist" on making Netinstall and ROS versions match, then you'd be using 6.48.6 to install 6.48.6, 7.12 to install 7.12, etc. But as there is no such actual limitation, there is no reason to not just use 7.12 for everything (as it's the latest version known to work with these picky early 3011s), and thus we are all confused why MT support picked this particular version, especially since they provided zero explanation.

rextended · Fri May 09, 2025 8:49 pm

MikroTik has released a new update that also includes the ipq8060
It is worth a try...
viewtopic.php?p=1142236#p1142236

Michiganbroadband · Sat May 10, 2025 7:22 am

MikroTik has released a new update that also includes the ipq8060
It is worth a try...
viewtopic.php?p=1142236#p1142236

Yeah, that does look worth a try.
MikrotiK's game so far is not to answer my very specific issue (while I am describing and pointing them, to the very specific issue) and this forum post.
and first asking me if I tried different network connections, try with a switch or hub and try it from Linux CLI.
And make a video about the problem.
Yes I did of course try it from Linux as well -- same problem of course!
Each time there has been an email on the ticket they ask a question like this I answer and do not hear back for 5-6 days.
Then try do this again.
After waiting nearly a week -3rd time was to try that netinstall mentioned above.
They gave me a link and a password (password was not valid) waited again then they send a new password but the link was expired.
And had to go through that cycle of having them send me a new link and new password.
(this was days ago and have not heard back).

Michiganbroadband · Sat May 10, 2025 7:26 am

I also need to bump the ticket every few days due to lack of activity on it.

-Steve

rextended · Sat May 10, 2025 12:41 pm

The FACTS are that what you are doing with SUPPORT is completely useless.

Use the netinstall 7.12.x that works and forget about them fixing it for old factory-routerboot devices.

If then the 7.18.2 factory-firmware update in your model works, MAYBE you have solved the problem.

Since netinstall 7.12.x can be used to install ANY (so far) known v6 and v7 version, you have no problem at all to install any version you want from scratch.

mkx · Sat May 10, 2025 2:54 pm

Yeah, that does look worth a try.

Did you? What were results?

Michiganbroadband · Mon May 12, 2025 5:07 am

Yeah, that does look worth a try.
Did you? What were results?

I'm not back home until next week when I can try it then.
And I will try it.
Don't care if I brick it at this point.
Or any point for that matter.