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WirelessRudy
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Ghost disconnects

Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:18 am

I have this rb333 running 5.4 as client running of a v5.4 AP in 802.11 "NV2" 10Mhz channel.

Client complains about disconnections from the internet since some weeks.
Log file of rb333 shows no disconnects, and up time is more than a day now (after AP reboot yesterday)
I logged in with winbox and am thrown out every so many minutes or cannot log in and winbox loader shows " Could net fetch index from xxx.xxx.xx.xx (port80): disconnected.
Than after some minutes I can log in....
Than after some minutes or so am thrown out again with a message telling me some plugins are missing?

Minutes later I can log in with winbox again and client has internet access. And than the client runs for hours without problems....

During all this I see not a single message in the logs in both ends. All I see in the rb333 is that I am logging-in and out while even wireless / debug is enabled.

On the AP the log also shows nothing related to this unit. And in the register table it just shows as being associated for a day now...
I set-up a ping from the AP to the CPE and that fluctuates between 5 and 40ms, but never stops, not even when the winbox connection is lost.
After a couple of disconnects the units connects again and runs fine for hours into the next day or so..... GHOST?

Any ideas?
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Rudy R. Puister

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Egate
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Re: Ghost disconnects

Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:24 pm

Sounds to me like it might be a routing problem. Maybe do a trace route from client to your server and the other way round and see what happens.
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chadd
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Re: Ghost disconnects

Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:28 pm

Rudy,

I have had the exact same issue while running NV2 in 5.4, the client will stop passing traffic but will remain associated to the AP. It doesn't happen to all clients on the sector just one or two here and there. I battled it for a few days and finally changed the sector back to Nstreme and haven't had any issues since then.

I am tired of battling NV2 and MT wireless bugs and disconnects in general, but I think I finally found a fix for it all.

What fix you may ask?

Well my first Ubuquiti 2.4Ghz Sector and AP showed up today. I am going to be replacing a small MT NV2 sector that I have relentless issues with timing related disconnects on.

MT support can't reproduce the disconnects that so many people are having with their product so there isn't much of a chance of them getting it fixed. I gave them access to one of our sectors that has a lot of disconnect issues and they haven't been able to figure it out so my only option is to look for greener pastures. I have had a full tower of UBNT 3.65Ghz gear up for several months now and it has performed very well up to this point, so hopefully the 2.4Ghz will do the same.
 
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Re: Ghost disconnects

Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:59 pm

Another pissed of client. Have to admit, support does suck, especially when you have a big ass problem, then again, have found this to be true for any IT problem, until they find the problem. Of cause, clients don’t understand that as we don’t always understand Mikrotik's problem. That said, had a look at Ubuntu equipment a while back and they are great, until you want to do something more than plug and play, which in any kind of WISP will happen. Then you have to stick it out with Mikrotik and eventually get there.
Just also wanted to mention that I have got a similar setup as Wireless Rudy, only with OS 5.2 but don’t have a similar problem. Only thing I have noticed is with the OS 3 and 4 before NV2, pings used to be between zero and 1 ms, now 4 to 6 with spikes, now and then, but not to bad, considering the advantages of NV2.
Happy days. :-)
 
WirelessRudy
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Re: Ghost disconnects

Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:06 am

Like Egate says, ubnt is not the solution. Even if their stuff might work easier in ´plug and play´ modus.
Frst of all, their hardware is not as reliable as routerboards. The failure rate is much higher.
Second, it has only some 60% of the options as a fully squeezable ROS like MT has to offer.
Third, I do have two very short range backhauls with loco5's (airmax) and they gave me same disconnects as what we see in MT's NV2.
The links are only stable by using channels way out of range of what normally is in use.... :wink:
and disabling the airmax system.

But, like Chadd says, their are more problems. This ´ghost´ unit is not the only one.

I am busy making a inventory of all my units to see which units still give what kind of problems.
My whole network, +/- 250 units is now v.5.4 with updated firmwares.
A rough estimate is that I have almost 10% (!) units still having the port flapping issue. Although I reported it a while ago it was gone, it is just back. Only not that often any more as before and on much lower amount of units. It took me some time to realize it is still happening.
And about 5% is still showing disconnects with all kinds or reasons. I know this has all to do with the many channels in use in my area and thus interferences, but the strange thing is that some units give the problem while neighbours with the same unit and running of the same AP only 5 mtrs beside of it (seen from the AP, so this particular unit is in the middle) have not a single disconnect!

About the port flapping issue still around I send MT a support request and they came back with a .pdf file on how to check several physical statuses of the ports and other parts of the routerboard.
Like suddenly some 30 units under 5.4 now have physical problems where they haven't had these half a year ago! (in some 4.x versions..)
And it is not a hardware related issue. It happens on rb411, rb433's, SXT's, rb133C3's, rb122's and a rb532A.

The problem is that 5.x family and NV2 does improve management and help me stabilize my network much more in regard of other issues I had in normal 802.11 but it comes with new problems... which is indeed very disappointing!

I have to find some more time to really analyse (wearing badge reading "unsolicited MT field test manager") what is going wrong on the several units and under what conditions it happens and when etc. Some units obviously show in the register and logs to be disconnected but the clients never notice anything. When asked they make regular skype phone calls and never have a single problem. They tell me about how good it is! (So, althoug it sounds nice, it only confuses me more, the logs really tell me it should suck!)
I have one unit disconnecting almost 200 times a day! Client doesn't notice anything and makes regular skype calls they say... beats me... :?

It's been quiet for a while on the new release of rosv5.x so I only hope MT guys are really trying to nail the issues and wait with a new version until they really have solved some of the issues still around....
In the meantime we just struggle on and I can only find grieve in the fact I hardly get complaints from client. And not because they are tired of it. ..... Last Tuesday I had a failing rb333 (in a backhaul link) that over 1 hours started to disconnect for whatever reason and finally collapsed beyond recovery (yes, completely DEAD) so I had to replace board. But within half an hour we receive 50 client calls about the failing internet. So clients DO know to find me if they have no service.
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Rudy R. Puister

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chadd
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Re: Ghost disconnects

Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:51 am

Like Egate says, ubnt is not the solution. Even if their stuff might work easier in ´plug and play´ modus.
Frst of all, their hardware is not as reliable as routerboards. The failure rate is much higher.
Second, it has only some 60% of the options as a fully squeezable ROS like MT has to offer.
Third, I do have two very short range backhauls with loco5's (airmax) and they gave me same disconnects as what we see in MT's NV2.
The links are only stable by using channels way out of range of what normally is in use.... :wink:
and disabling the airmax system.
I have a few UBNT 5Ghz backhauls that have been running since March without a hiccup, the longest being ~7 miles, and as I mentioned above I have a full tower of UBNT 3.65Ghz gear that has performed very well since March also. It is going to be interesting to see how the 2Ghz UBNT performs in place of a troubled MT NV2 sector, it will be apples to apples comparison here. I hope the UBNT works out good because.

1. It is quite a bit less expensive than a comparable MT setup.
2. The support channel is better for us in the States, no more staying up till 3:00 AM hoping that MT support will answer a ticket or post on the forums.
3. I can actually RMA a piece of equipment and get a replacement. MT is such a hassle to RMA I have never RMA'ed a unit in the ~7 yrs I have been using it.

I still plan on using MT for routing at towers, customers that require it and at our head end and with NV2 you lose almost all the flexibility with the wireless system that MT once had, no WDS between AP's, no virtual AP's, no flexibility of using a different CPE brand if you needed to, etc etc.
But, like Chadd says, their are more problems. This ´ghost´ unit is not the only one.

Some units obviously show in the register and logs to be disconnected but the clients never notice anything. When asked they make regular skype phone calls and never have a single problem. They tell me about how good it is! (So, althoug it sounds nice, it only confuses me more, the logs really tell me it should suck!)
I have one unit disconnecting almost 200 times a day! Client doesn't notice anything and makes regular skype calls they say... beats me... :?
Our customers definitely notice and have been complaining since we started running NV2. The main source of complaints are from gamers, voip and video chat users. Normal web surfers never notice the disconnects. It's not like we are overwhelmed with complaints about disconnects and out of all of our clients I would guess that ~10% have disconnect issues. But we can't have 100% customer satisfaction with 10% disconnects, even if it only truly bothers a handful of users.
It's been quiet for a while on the new release of rosv5.x so I only hope MT guys are really trying to nail the issues and wait with a new version until they really have solved some of the issues still around....
In the meantime we just struggle on
I would be happy if MT could at least just reproduce the problems on their end and acknowledge they exist. I am not saying that MT doesn't have it's merits because it does and overall it is a good performing product but it always has these nagging problems that they never seem to quite be able to fix and I am tired of struggling with it.
 
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Re: Ghost disconnects

Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:07 pm

I would be happy if MT could at least just reproduce the problems on their end and acknowledge they exist. I am not saying that MT doesn't have it's merits because it does and overall it is a good performing product but it always has these nagging problems that they never seem to quite be able to fix and I am tired of struggling with it.
Is this a senario where testing in lab conditions and not field cannot reproduce the issues, or trying to reproduce the issue with different brand/type of hardware, if yes then it would say to me something in your particular setup of hardware is possibly causing the issue.
N21roadie,
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chadd
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Re: Ghost disconnects

Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:17 am

I would be happy if MT could at least just reproduce the problems on their end and acknowledge they exist. I am not saying that MT doesn't have it's merits because it does and overall it is a good performing product but it always has these nagging problems that they never seem to quite be able to fix and I am tired of struggling with it.
Is this a senario where testing in lab conditions and not field cannot reproduce the issues, or trying to reproduce the issue with different brand/type of hardware, if yes then it would say to me something in your particular setup of hardware is possibly causing the issue.

If it were only me having problems maybe but there are a bunch of people on the forums here with different hardware having the same issues. Do a search for wireless disconnects or medium access timeout. I have problems with at least three different wireless cards and 3 versions of Routerboards, so it isn't isolated to one particular hardware config.
 
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Re: Ghost disconnects

Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:41 pm

Just have a new client with rb411/R52 that has ´ghost disconnects´.. :(
Client and AP (rb411AH/R52H) all running v5.4

Client is connected with -66/-68 Tx/Rx and CCQ of 95-100% and connected with a Tx/Rx rate of 18Mbps in 5Ghz-10Mhz (rates set in AP to 36M)

Client complains about loosing internet connection.
I can log in with winbox and indeed this connection is lost very regular.
In meantime registration table shows unit still connected and mac telnet session is still connected.
Both logs shown nothing, even in system and wireless debug mode.

What is going on here?
Is MT working on a solution on all these disconnects problems! I am really getting tired of this.....
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Rudy R. Puister

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Re: Ghost disconnects

Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:08 pm

Just curios.
Both logs shown nothing, even in system and wireless debug mode.
How do you know client is loosing connection? Is it because winbox disconnect?
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WirelessRudy
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Re: Ghost disconnects

Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:22 pm

Just curios.
Both logs shown nothing, even in system and wireless debug mode.
How do you know client is loosing connection? Is it because winbox disconnect?
Client complains about loosing internet connection.
Traffic to/fm clients also falls back to a small kbps stream...
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Re: Ghost disconnects

Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:41 pm

Have you done a speed test to the client RB, while this happens? Just trying to figure this, does not sound like a disconnect, more a throughput problem or even some kind of interference.
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chadd
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Re: Ghost disconnects

Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:08 am

Just have a new client with rb411/R52 that has ´ghost disconnects´.. :(
Client and AP (rb411AH/R52H) all running v5.4

Client is connected with -66/-68 Tx/Rx and CCQ of 95-100% and connected with a Tx/Rx rate of 18Mbps in 5Ghz-10Mhz (rates set in AP to 36M)

Client complains about loosing internet connection.
I can log in with winbox and indeed this connection is lost very regular.
In meantime registration table shows unit still connected and mac telnet session is still connected.
Both logs shown nothing, even in system and wireless debug mode.

What is going on here?
Is MT working on a solution on all these disconnects problems! I am really getting tired of this.....
Rudy,

Roll back to nstreme instead of NV2.

I am pretty sure they don't give a hoot at this point in time. There has been no word from them on any of the wireless disconnect issues in quite some time, I have had no updates from them on an open ticket regarding disconnects. They have blinders on and are proceeding like there are no problems with the wireless package. After all it must be us because they can't reproduce it.

As I mentioned a few weeks ago I was going to replace a troubled MT sector with UBNT and guess what I have not had a single disconnect on that sector since switching from MT to UBNT. This is running the exact same channel, and channel width. It is pretty clear to me what I need to be doing to move forward with our business. I have several new towers going live in the next few months and I can tell you there won't be any MT wireless equipment placed on them, I am also going to start replacing existing MT wireless gear as I get time.

Maybe when they start losing sales they will find a way to reproduce the issues that their end users are having with their wireless package.

Chadd
 
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Re: Ghost disconnects

Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:40 am

Rudy,

Roll back to nstreme instead of NV2.

I am pretty sure they don't give a hoot at this point in time. There has been no word from them on any of the wireless disconnect issues in quite some time, I have had no updates from them on an open ticket regarding disconnects. They have blinders on and are proceeding like there are no problems with the wireless package. After all it must be us because they can't reproduce it.

As I mentioned a few weeks ago I was going to replace a troubled MT sector with UBNT and guess what I have not had a single disconnect on that sector since switching from MT to UBNT. This is running the exact same channel, and channel width. It is pretty clear to me what I need to be doing to move forward with our business. I have several new towers going live in the next few months and I can tell you there won't be any MT wireless equipment placed on them, I am also going to start replacing existing MT wireless gear as I get time.

Maybe when they start losing sales they will find a way to reproduce the issues that their end users are having with their wireless package.

Chadd
Chadd, you might be right. But I basically abandoned nstreme 2 years ago because I couldn't get it to work fine. Maybe I should give it a try.

Regarding your troubled MT sector replacement to UBNT:
How did that network look?
- Clients, are they all MT, all ubnt or a mix?
- Depending on you previous answer, usage of nv2? (in case all MT..)
- Frequency? 2,4Ghz or 5Ghz? 10 or 20Mhz channel?
- Environment; many hidden nodes? congested area? (many clients in sector?), distances of clients?
- Did you only replace the AP? Or also the clients?

It might be I am forced to change my network, but I need a bit more assurance to if that will be a good move. Ubnt also has its issues and I don't want to replace one headache just by another.....

I also just want to keep these topics on top, hopefully it will create some reaction from their end...
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Rudy R. Puister

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Re: Ghost disconnects

Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:09 pm

I'm having ghost disconnections case. Did someone solve this issue?
I'm thinking about leave nv2 in some AP and re-enable nstreme.
 
WirelessRudy
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Re: Ghost disconnects

Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:37 pm

I'm having ghost disconnections case. Did someone solve this issue?
I'm thinking about leave nv2 in some AP and re-enable nstreme.
I am testing v5.6 and it looks promising. Also separated my networks better (in working channels) which gave the first results.
But v5.6 looks promising so far.....
If you want to test it, sent a support mail to Mikrotik.
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Rudy R. Puister

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chadd
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Re: Ghost disconnects

Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:55 am

I'm having ghost disconnections case. Did someone solve this issue?
I'm thinking about leave nv2 in some AP and re-enable nstreme.
I am testing v5.6 and it looks promising. Also separated my networks better (in working channels) which gave the first results.
But v5.6 looks promising so far.....
If you want to test it, sent a support mail to Mikrotik.
5.6 has done nothing for me with regards to disconnects, still having them. I have sent in quite a few output files to support though. I hope to hear something soon.
 
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Re: Ghost disconnects

Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:13 am

5.6 has done nothing for me with regards to disconnects, still having them. I have sent in quite a few output files to support though. I hope to hear something soon.
Well, it might a bit early but my network has improved some... I have to see the next days how it stays...
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Rudy R. Puister

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