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DJGlooM
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hap ac3 - worse than hap lite?

Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:16 pm

Hey guys. Installed three friends with hap ac3. One had hap ac lite, another two had hap lite.
With the same capsman config wireless coverage of hap ac3 is worse than hap lite. I begin to suspect maybe there's something wrong with antennas?
I did not switch it on without antennas. Had the latest 6.47.10 longterm, now updated to 6.48.5. Switched off data rates optimizations. Tried low tx power, highest - doesnt matter..
With 8-12 dbm at 2.4 GHz client barely see network in another room and can't connect, but those antennas has pretty good gain...
One installation is a country house, other is an apartment, but result is the same. I can always assume that it's my screw up, but where?
Mikrotik, what could it be?
/caps-man channel
add band=5ghz-n/ac control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=Ce frequency=5180,5220,5260,5300,5660,5700,5745,5785 name=5ghz-auto40 reselect-interval=1d save-selected=yes tx-power=22
add band=2ghz-g/n control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=disabled frequency=2412,2437,2462 name=2ghz-auto20 reselect-interval=1d save-selected=yes tx-power=18
/caps-man datapath
add client-to-client-forwarding=yes local-forwarding=yes name=local
/caps-man rates
add basic=12Mbps,18Mbps,24Mbps ht-basic-mcs=mcs-0,mcs-1,mcs-2,mcs-3,mcs-4,mcs-5,mcs-6,mcs-7 ht-supported-mcs=\
    mcs-0,mcs-1,mcs-2,mcs-3,mcs-4,mcs-5,mcs-6,mcs-7,mcs-8,mcs-9,mcs-10,mcs-11,mcs-12,mcs-13,mcs-14,mcs-15 name=newrates supported=12Mbps,18Mbps,24Mbps,36Mbps,48Mbps,54Mbps vht-basic-mcs=\
    "" vht-supported-mcs=""
/caps-man security
add authentication-types=wpa2-psk disable-pmkid=yes encryption=aes-ccm group-encryption=aes-ccm group-key-update=1h name=SSID passphrase=superpassword
/caps-man configuration
add channel=2ghz-auto20 country=russia3 datapath=local distance=indoors guard-interval=long hw-protection-mode=cts-to-self hw-retries=10 installation=any keepalive-frames=enabled mode=ap \
    multicast-helper=disabled name=SSID rx-chains=0,1,2,3 security=SSID ssid=SSID tx-chains=0,1,2,3
add channel=5ghz-auto40 country=russia3 datapath=local distance=indoors guard-interval=any hw-protection-mode=cts-to-self hw-retries=10 installation=any keepalive-frames=enabled mode=ap \
    multicast-helper=disabled name=SSID-5 rx-chains=0,1,2,3 security=SSID ssid=SSID tx-chains=0,1,2,3
/caps-man manager
set enabled=yes package-path=/ upgrade-policy=suggest-same-version
/caps-man manager interface
set [ find default=yes ] forbid=yes
add disabled=no interface=bridge-lan
/caps-man provisioning
add action=create-dynamic-enabled hw-supported-modes=ac,an master-configuration=SSID-5 name-format=prefix-identity name-prefix=5GHz-
add action=create-dynamic-enabled hw-supported-modes=gn master-configuration=SSID name-format=prefix-identity name-prefix=2GHz-

 
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bpwl
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Re: hap ac3 - worse than hap lite?

Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:56 am

With 8-12 dbm at 2.4 GHz client barely see network in another room and can't connect, but those antennas has pretty good gain...
Can't help with CapsMan (no experience) , and I don't have a hAP ac3.

But still, reading specs, and based on high gain experiments indoor ...

On 2.4 GHz the antenna gain is
hAP Lite = 1.5 dBi
hAP ac Lite = 2 dBi
hAP ac3 = 3 dBi
... not much difference. Should give no practical difference in signal at the client. What signal strength is in the "registration table" on the AP? And what CCQ ? (probaby a low value, like 60% or lower)

High gain antenna's (like +16 dBi) transmit lower TX power overall, if limited by the regulator. (e.g. 20 dBm EIRP), because the peak transmitpower sets that limit. (EIRP is calculated as if the peak direction power is transmitted in all directions, the "I" in "EIRP" from isotropic. The antenna transmit less energy in the non-peak directions. And that low overall TX power does not favor passing walls. It is difficult to find the good angle for the antenna, as the signal path is unknown if there is no LoS.
 
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inteq
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Re: hap ac3 - worse than hap lite?

Mon Oct 11, 2021 5:49 am

Don't bother looking for a fix to your setup. hAP AC3 just sucks for some reason. Maybe they will fix it in a future RouterOS version.
viewtopic.php?p=827986#p823038
 
DJGlooM
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Re: hap ac3 - worse than hap lite?

Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:02 am

Can't help with CapsMan (no experience) , and I don't have a hAP ac3.
Capsman is pretty much the same, but with provision.
On 2.4 GHz the antenna gain is
hAP Lite = 1.5 dBi
hAP ac Lite = 2 dBi
hAP ac3 = 3 dBi
Audience has 3.5 gain, but there's a huge difference in my experience. Cant wait to test new cap ac xl

I know there's no much point of setting high tx power, but try and explain to user that "more bars doesn't have anything to do with wifi quality". Also in apartment installation there's kitchen over the wall from the room mikrotik sitting in and network is barely visible without high tx values. And no, there's no microwave working.
Currently at night there's overall CCQ 90-100% in the country house and around 75-80% in apartment for 2.4 ghz. And its totally normal for each of them, considering environment.
Why I set a topic like this: in the apartment there was hap lite before hap ac3 and it covered the whole area and it was at the same spot. I love abbreviations like EIRP, but can you tell me why tiny onboard antennas worked better than huge dipole antennas? Same room, same spot, nothing has changed. And there's 3 of those hap ac3 routers we have problems with in that way.
 
DJGlooM
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Re: hap ac3 - worse than hap lite?

Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:06 am

Don't bother looking for a fix to your setup. hAP AC3 just sucks for some reason. Maybe they will fix it in a future RouterOS version.
viewtopic.php?p=827986#p823038
Exactly! But there won't be any fix until problem is massive and acknowledged. Meanwhile we have a beautiful huge piece of soft-touch plastic that can do anything except wifi. The most common question from user is: why tplink or zyxel worked better with wifi?
 
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BartoszP
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Re: hap ac3 - worse than hap lite?

Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:15 am

...but try and explain to user that "more bars doesn't have anything to do with wifi quality"....
It's like listening to the music sitting close to big speakers. You do not hear better ... It's only louder ... that is why it has no sense to be close to the speakers during concerts :)
Real admins use real keyboards.
To quote or not to quote, there is the topic: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=168474
 
mkx
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Re: hap ac3 - worse than hap lite?

Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:44 pm

...but try and explain to user that "more bars doesn't have anything to do with wifi quality"....
It's like listening to the music sitting close to big speakers. You do not hear better ... It's only louder ... that is why it has no sense to be close to the speakers during concerts :)

Agreed. But the big problem is that there's a concert at every front porch in the street, all the speakers are set to maximum loudness ... so the solution is to wear protective earmuffs and sit near the speakers. :wink:
BR,
Metod
 
DJGlooM
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Re: hap ac3 - worse than hap lite?

Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:19 pm

...but try and explain to user that "more bars doesn't have anything to do with wifi quality"....
It's like listening to the music sitting close to big speakers. You do not hear better ... It's only louder ... that is why it has no sense to be close to the speakers during concerts :)
Oh it looks like you never been at russian club party. There are special type of people that love to stand RIGHT INFRONT of a speaker. Perhaps they love that type of massage IDK. I usually try and explain that you can hear TV tower signal from many miles away with your phone\radio, doesnt mean you can answer it at that distance. And you can turn your router into microwave oven, doesnt mean that's good for data transfer.
 
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BartoszP
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Re: hap ac3 - worse than hap lite?

Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:04 pm

...Oh it looks like you never been at russian club party. There are special type of people that love to stand RIGHT INFRONT of a speaker. Perhaps they love that type of massage IDK. ...
Lazy ones ... they do not even try to dance waitng to be shaken with sound waves :) :)
Real admins use real keyboards.
To quote or not to quote, there is the topic: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=168474
 
dieselsuxx
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Re: hap ac3 - worse than hap lite?

Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:47 pm

Hello!

I've run into the same issue and was initially very disappointed by the hap ac3 and made me appreciate my trusted old hap ac even more.
In order to get much better wifi performance out of the hap ac3 you will need to install ROS v7 and the wifiwave2 package. This enables mu-mimo, beam forming and all the fancy stuff which makes the hap ac3 outperform the other haps. Sadly this also means that you can't use capsman.
 
holvoetn
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Re: hap ac3 - worse than hap lite?

Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:34 pm

Hello!

I've run into the same issue and was initially very disappointed by the hap ac3 and made me appreciate my trusted old hap ac even more.
In order to get much better wifi performance out of the hap ac3 you will need to install ROS v7 and the wifiwave2 package. This enables mu-mimo, beam forming and all the fancy stuff which makes the hap ac3 outperform the other haps. Sadly this also means that you can't use capsman.
Why not ?
I have SXT LTE running with 7.1rc4 acting as capsman. Works just fine with cAP AC and cAP Lite behind it (both still on v6.48.3, or is that what your comment is about ?).
 
biomesh
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Re: hap ac3 - worse than hap lite?

Sat Oct 16, 2021 2:39 pm

Capsman at this time, cannot manage radios using the wave2 package.
 
holvoetn
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Re: hap ac3 - worse than hap lite?

Sat Oct 16, 2021 2:41 pm

Capsman at this time, cannot manage radios using the wave2 package.
Ah ! That makes sense but will only be a matter of time.

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