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karina
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60g new frequencies since 6.82

Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:19 am

Hi
I notice the frequencies 66600 and 66960 have been added in winbox with v 6.82, sadly the 66960 does not connect, is it possible it has been added for future chipsets?
 
velk1001
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:41 am

Have you got the version correct?
I thought they were only accessible though CLI so far (Nray), i would be nice if they were.

Regards

Paul
 
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:04 pm

6.82?
 
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karina
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:23 pm

lol sorry 6.48.2
 
blingblouw
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:39 pm

Oh snap. Thats a surprise.

It works... Just make sure your scan-list includes 66960 (66000 has been there for a while).

ROS will complain about this

/interface w60g> set scan-list=58320,60480,62640,64800,66960,66960 numbers=0
value of scan-list should have no more than 5 elements

just remove 58320
/interface w60g> set scan-list=60480,62640,64800,66960,66960 numbers=0

connected: yes
frequency: 66960
remote-address:
tx-mcs: 8
tx-phy-rate: 2.3Gbps
signal: 100
rssi: -55
tx-sector: 54
tx-sector-info: left 0.8 degrees, up 0.6 degrees
distance: 0.53m
tx-packet-error-rate: 0%
 
blingblouw
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:40 pm

now who's brave enough to test this on a live link, post results :)
 
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karina
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:09 pm

odd there is no mention of this from Mikrotik
 
blingblouw
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:31 pm

Ye, TBH is seems they just brought it inline with the correct channel to use anyway, 66000 was not standardised.

Would have really liked 691200

Channel Center (GHz) Min. (GHz) Max. (GHz) BW (GHz)
1 58.32 57.24 59.40 2.16
2 60.48 59.40 61.56
3 62.64 61.56 63.72
4 64.80 63.72 65.88
5 66.96 65.88 68.04
6 69.12 68.04 70.20
 
server8
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:00 pm

On LHG60 works the RSSI is 2 db worst than 66000 but the beamforming selected different tx sector

connected: yes
frequency: 66960
remote-address: 04:D6:AA:AE:C9:ED
tx-mcs: 8
tx-phy-rate: 2.3Gbps
signal: 80
rssi: -54
tx-sector: 58
tx-sector-info: left 0.6 degrees, up 1.4 degrees
distance: 1052.34m
 
antonsb
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:03 pm

this change was target to testing branch.
but now when cat is out of the bag:
Do not expect much from devices without significant antenna gain (wAP and SXT series)
Performance should be similar to 66000MHz channel.
 
velk1001
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:56 pm

I have just updated an Nray and i now have the extra channels, can the UK use these extra channels thou?

Regards

Paul
 
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:39 pm

this change was target to testing branch.
but now when cat is out of the bag:
Do not expect much from devices without significant antenna gain (wAP and SXT series)
Performance should be similar to 66000MHz channel.
will higher frequencies be added in the future than on ubnt? can I expect half the width of the channel?
 
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:22 pm

LHG60 r2 @ 2,3km
Image
image upload
 
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:25 pm

Please check whether extended frequencies are available on RBLHG-60AD (MIPSBE). Thanx.
CMDR Saaremaa (Gutamaya Sierra Alpha Alpha)
 
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Sun May 16, 2021 9:51 am

will higher frequencies be added in the future than on ubnt? can I expect half the width of the channel?
+1
Will the 1GHz channel make connection more stable? At least it will move the min. frequency from the oxigen absorbation.
Expecting for higher frequency
 
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Sun May 16, 2021 9:56 am

Please check whether extended frequencies are available on RBLHG-60AD (MIPSBE). Thanx.
It's works on every 60Ghz devices. One link works for week+ Data rates and signal are less then 64800, but it works fine.
I wonder is this signal\data rates degradation is a software problem, or hardware doesn't match the frequency?
 
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Mon May 17, 2021 5:37 am

I have just updated an Nray and i now have the extra channels, can the UK use these extra channels thou?

Ofcom keep on changing things...
IR2078 originally covered licence exempt operation for 57.1 to 63.9 GHz, with light licensing for 64 - 66 GHz and operation above 66 GHz prohibited.
As of 6 November 2018 IR2078 was amended to cover licence exempt operation for 57.1 to 70.875 GHz, with the light licensing scheme for 64 - 66 GHz abolished.

More recently Ofcom have been issuing variations to licences as part of 'measures to require compliance with international guidelines for limiting exposure to electromagnetic fields (EMF)' https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/ ... tement.pdf - in particular for 60GHz devices IR2078 is being amended "From 30 November 2021 the licence exemption will no longer be applicable. After this date use will only be authorised if a Spectrum Access EHF licence is held", see https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/ ... r_2078.pdf

According to https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:I ... cteristics this only impacts LHG Lite 60, LHG 60G, Wireless Wire Dish & nRAY devices.
 
velk1001
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Mon May 17, 2021 11:32 am

So as i read that all high power point to point links will need to have a EHF licence in the UK!
We have until the 30th NOVEMBER 2021 to apply at a cost of £75




OFCOM make the wording of their rules so hard to follow!
 
tdw
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Mon May 17, 2021 6:54 pm

That's my understanding, and using a licence https://www.ofcom.org.uk/manage-your-li ... access-ehf which currently has not been updated to include the 57.1 to 70.875 GHz range!

I have no idea how they intend communicating this requirement to people who have existing links, as having been exempt there is no registrations of installations.
 
velk1001
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Mon May 17, 2021 7:03 pm

Its a complete joke, there's no way to make the Nray comply with turning the power output down.

The new licence for EHF has not even been updated to include the 60Ghz range!

I think the power output of an Nray is 316watts eirp so the EMF distance is 2.5meter from the antenna
 
marekm
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Mon May 17, 2021 9:06 pm

this change was target to testing branch.
but now when cat is out of the bag:
Do not expect much from devices without significant antenna gain (wAP and SXT series)
Performance should be similar to 66000MHz channel.
The good thing is 66960 is the standard channel 5, while non-standard 66000 overlaps parts of standard channels 4 and 5 - causes interference to both, should be deprecated. Thanks, looking for more cats out of the bag :)

The difference (less O2 attenuation) should be more significant at longer distances, it would be interesting to see the max PtMP range with LHG or Cube stations to wAP.
 
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Sat May 29, 2021 7:34 pm

Just have updated to 6.48.3
66960 is still in the list, but I can't set it up.
winbox says that this interface doesn't support it. the same in in client's scan-list
there will be no 66960 and upper frequencies?
 
antonsb
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Mon May 31, 2021 2:49 pm

this will be available on new 802.11ay hardware.
Unfortunately this cannot be used reliably on our existing 802.11ad devices - that is why this frequency support is removed
 
marekm
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Mon May 31, 2021 3:23 pm

this will be available on new 802.11ay hardware.
Unfortunately this cannot be used reliably on our existing 802.11ad devices - that is why this frequency support is removed
Would it be possible to try to make it work on the exiting 802.11ad devices as client side only (connect to the new 802.11ay AP)?
It's a lot of work (expensive) to replace many existing client devices on the roofs. Much less work to replace just the APs.
 
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Mon May 31, 2021 3:25 pm

STAFF or AUTHOR please change title, thanks.....
 
velk1001
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Mon May 31, 2021 6:13 pm

There is nothing wrong with the title?
A part from the missing 6.82.2
Last edited by velk1001 on Mon May 31, 2021 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Mon May 31, 2021 6:15 pm

You just write for increase the posts number?
6.82 do not exist
 
velk1001
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Mon May 31, 2021 6:23 pm

I spotted it as you were typing, we noticed it back in april :)
 
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Mon May 31, 2021 7:49 pm

this will be available on new 802.11ay hardware.
Unfortunately this cannot be used reliably on our existing 802.11ad devices - that is why this frequency support is removed
When do you plan to lunch ay?
I have a good test link 66960 1750m long and it works fine with 385mb\s. Its not that fast as expexted, but it provides an extra frequency to use 64800 and 66000 overlaps making it useless. Please bring 66960 back. It works 2.3Gb\s for 800m link and makes it possible to use 64800 at the same place
 
server8
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:29 am

this will be available on new 802.11ay hardware.
Unfortunately this cannot be used reliably on our existing 802.11ad devices - that is why this frequency support is removed
Antonsb it works well.... what we are missing?
 
velk1001
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:12 am

What devices does 66960 work on as the Nray says not supported
 
antonsb
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:57 am

this will be available on new 802.11ay hardware.
Unfortunately this cannot be used reliably on our existing 802.11ad devices - that is why this frequency support is removed
Antonsb it works well.... what we are missing?
stability in raised ambient temperatures
 
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Tue Jun 01, 2021 11:00 am

this will be available on new 802.11ay hardware.
Unfortunately this cannot be used reliably on our existing 802.11ad devices - that is why this frequency support is removed
Antonsb it works well.... what we are missing?
stability in raised ambient temperatures
STAFF or AUTHOR please change title, thanks.....
 
velk1001
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:54 pm

Antonsb with the New regulations in the UK coming into force in November 30th, do you think Mikrotik will add a power control to turn down the output of the Nray to 40dBm to comply?

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/ ... -final.pdf
Regards
Paul
 
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:27 pm

stability in raised ambient temperatures
Perhaps that could be improved by reduced CPU clock? PtMP client devices don't see as much traffic as AP devices, so lower CPU performance may be acceptable.

On the other hand, 6.49beta changelogs mention this more than once:
*) w60g - improved stability in low temperature environments;
and I can confirm some issues last winter which was much colder than a few previous winters.
LHG60 worked better inside JH-LHG shield, not sure for which reason: protection from snow on the dish, a little warmer inside (before 6.49beta changes), both?
 
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:17 pm

802.11ad works worse in cold weather not becouse it is freezing. Cold air becomes more dense and amount of oxigen per squere mitter increases.
 
antonsb
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:40 pm

Antonsb with the New regulations in the UK coming into force in November 30th, do you think Mikrotik will add a power control to turn down the output of the Nray to 40dBm to comply?

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/ ... -final.pdf
Regards
Paul
we will look into it. please drop e-mail to support@mikrotik.com address it to me with reference to this forum thread.
Thanks
 
antonsb
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:44 pm

802.11ad works worse in cold weather not becouse it is freezing. Cold air becomes more dense and amount of oxigen per squere mitter increases.
This is True, but we had some software improvements regarding this as well:
6.49beta46:
*) w60g - improved stability in low temperature environments
 
marekm
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:28 pm

802.11ad works worse in cold weather not becouse it is freezing. Cold air becomes more dense and amount of oxigen per squere mitter increases.
On the other hand, low temperature = low thermal noise. So it may be possible to receive weaker signals.
 
server8
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:23 am

this will be available on new 802.11ay hardware.
Antonsb the 60ghz rush is already started: Siklu,Cambium and other vendors has AY terragraph solution already on the market, Ubiquiti is very close to release it cheaper than others.

We can have some details from mikroitk? Terragraph chipset specification are known so just ETA and hw models :-)

thank you
 
velk1001
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:30 am

Hi Antonsb i tried to email you via the mikrotik email support but i dont think you got it ?

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/ ... -final.pdf
Regards

Paul
 
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:29 pm

+1
Install season is now, don't want to wait until winter.
this will be available on new 802.11ay hardware.
Antonsb the 60ghz rush is already started: Siklu,Cambium and other vendors has AY terragraph solution already on the market, Ubiquiti is very close to release it cheaper than others.

We can have some details from mikroitk? Terragraph chipset specification are known so just ETA and hw models :-)

thank you
 
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:33 pm

Why do you whait fir ay so much? it will be more expencive doesn't 1 gb enough?) Just make cheap ad working with 71Ghz (or just up to 69) allso 1Ghz channel (option) would be nice
 
marekm
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:02 pm

Why do you whait fir ay so much? it will be more expencive doesn't 1 gb enough?) Just make cheap ad working with 71Ghz (or just up to 69) allso 1Ghz channel (option) would be nice
- more PtMP stations per AP (15 instead of 8)
- mesh network with GPS sync, all running on one channel

Yes 1Gb is enough for everybody... for now, but traffic doubles about every 2 years.
In some places it's difficult to run fiber for various reasons (like, the road is owned by a hundred or so of house owners, and a few of them don't agree).
Or some people don't like overhead fiber lines because they are visible, and digging is much more expensive so only a much larger company can afford to do it quickly (and even then, they are still EU-subsidized and I have to compete with them using only my own money).
Cambium is already there but too expensive, I hope Mikrotik will work similarly well at lower cost.
First there was IgniteNet, it was expensive and didn't work (well, worked on a bench, but not over 200m distance with clear LOS - even though it should according to their nice graphs).
Mikrotik came two years later with something that works. Not without some issues either, but already an improvement. Don't stop at this please.
 
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:19 pm

Why do you whait fir ay so much? it will be more expencive doesn't 1 gb enough?) Just make cheap ad working with 71Ghz (or just up to 69) allso 1Ghz channel (option) would be nice
- more PtMP stations per AP (15 instead of 8)
- mesh network with GPS sync, all running on one channel

Yes 1Gb is enough for everybody... for now, but traffic doubles about every 2 years.
More stations is realy good, but what will be the price for MIMO tecnology and 10Gb lan parts+faster cpu? For me (I admit that it's only my opinion) cheap AP with 1Ghz channel (more free space) makes it an easey and cheap way to place more cheap AP and cheap cpe. Mesh network need wide antennas, but its much better to use nerrow cpe with greater signal. Hope mikrotik will make new ad hardware that kan operate 69Ghz and has an optional 1Ghz channel
IMHO 1Gb is realy enough. It's hard to say, when will someone realy need more. I'm doing great with 100)
 
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:07 pm

I want a 60Ghz Omnitik. Actually a 60+5 Omnitik. Couple of extra PoE out ports to run other radios.

A mesh would be the holy grail here. With 'ay hardware and link rates I'd be perfectly happy with a single radio mesh (halving each hop) because there is plenty of capacity for today and I can slot in backhauls at intervals down the road to increase capacity/ reduce the number of hops.
 
marekm
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:24 pm

I want a 60Ghz Omnitik. Actually a 60+5 Omnitik.
Omnitik PoE 5 ac + two WAP60Gx3 is available today and close to what you want :)
 
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Re: Cube60ac new frequencies since 6.82

Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:15 am

Hello,
Was sent this link to look at issues we are having with our CUBE60ac. Our situation is that we need 3 non interfering 60ghz channels. When we first looked at using these for short range links (all 3 are under 500ft - line of site) we were told that we should have no issues with self interference.

First:
With the upgrade to 6.49.2 stable. We are finally seeing cold weather issues go away. We have had some nights here in Minnesota drop down to -17 to -22f actual air temp. under the previous version of firmware, these radios failed at +7f.

Under the previous version of firmware we had access to 66960, it has disappeared and 66000 seems to have issues. Under 6.49.2, 66960 says it is not supported.

Since the Master side of these links are 3 feet apart from each other on the same building, what channels should we set them to?

Second:
The 5ghz radios are worthless. They won't link up for more then 3 seconds, we understand that there is interference from wifi from the buildings they are mounted on but in 5ghz there are more then just 5.7-6.0 available. We see that the Slave side can receive all the way down to 5120, the master cannot. Also power control is strange and doesn't seem to work. Also changing the bandwidth from 20mhz to 10mhz makes the radios fail and it shows them not to support the narrower bandwidth. What are some useful hints to pump up the power and get these radios to link in 5ghz?

Thanks
Jason
 
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Re: 60g new frequencies since 6.82

Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:18 pm

Sorry we are at 6.49.2 on all CUBE 60ac devices

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