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FBachofner
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resetting wAP ac units - enormous frustration!

Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:41 am

I have two wAP ac devices which were previously connected to an hEX-S (no longer easily available).

I wish to reset them and connect them to a home built router running OpnSense [which, editorializing, . . . makes much more sense to me than opaque RouterOS webfig (or WinBox)]

The wAP ac s were updated to RouterOS 7.1.5 and corresponding firmware before the "decommissioning" of the hEX-S a few days ago. [ The SECOND of these units was just upgraded to 7.2 as I just realized that was released in the past day or two -- as I somewhat miraculously still have access to the unit. ]

The FIRST unit I tried to reset (both with webfig and ultimately the physical reset button on the device) and I am getting nowhere quickly -- except I can no longer access the device, except (sometimes!) the Mikrotik Android app -- which does NOT seem apply the configuration options I choose (sometimes it just times out, others it seems to "take" but then disconnects)! The reset was at least partially "successful" as it now (sporadically, depending on how I manage to work the reset function) broadcasts a default "Mikrotik-someletters&numbers_here" SSID

The unit should pull an MAC-linked assigned IP address from my DHCP server, but after and and all resets (and Android-app invoked setup it is no longer doing that.

The short manual which accompanied the device suggests pressing the reset button for 5 seconds on boot (with longer options for CAPsMAN and Netinstall options, which I do not want). Somewhat ambiguously the "manual" says that if the button is held BEFORE applying power, then a "backup RouterBOOT loader" will be loaded.

So, what is the magic "sauce" on resetting this device and getting it to pull my preferred IP address so I can once again get in using webfig?

If possible, please give me the EXACT steps I need to take to reset these devices so:
  1. ALL residual configuration is deleted
  2. they take an IP address from a DHCP server so that I can configure each wAP ac device using webfig (or WinBox which I can run from a virtualized install of Windows on this network -- if "necessary")

The only "reliable" tool(s) I think I have at this point to deal with these frustrating devices is/are:
  • the reset switch on wAP ac #1
  • the reset switch on wAP ac #2 and webfig -- likely ONLY so long as I don't reset anything on it (but it NEEDS to be reset as it is trying to take its config from CAPsMAN -- which is no longer available on this network . . .)
  • ability to plug in either wAP ac directly into a computer with a crossover cable (if that is of any benefit to control it without the complexity of a network "in the way"

Thanks in advance for any insights!
 
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rextended
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Re: resetting wAP ac units - enormous frustration!

Thu Apr 07, 2022 3:24 pm

...please give me the EXACT steps I need to take to reset these devices...
Use Netinstall

...directly into a computer with a crossover cable...
Why?
 
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anav
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Re: resetting wAP ac units - enormous frustration!

Thu Apr 07, 2022 3:42 pm

I believe that the wapac's are still in shock from having their parent taken away so abruptly and are also allergic to foster pfsense parent.
Why anyone would want to use pfsense instead of a hex unit which is a most amazing performer for its cost and size and winbox is about the best gui config I have ever used on any device........

In any case .........
https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/display/ROS/Netinstall
https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/pages/vi ... Id=1409054
https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:E ... set_button

and some sage advice on the netinstall......
And regarding Etherboot for all devices, the most error-free method is - to press the reset button, keep it pressed, power on the device, and wait until the device shows up in the Netinstall window, then release the button. This holds true for the Audience as well.
 
holvoetn
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Re: resetting wAP ac units - enormous frustration!

Thu Apr 07, 2022 4:28 pm

and some sage advice on the netinstall......
And regarding Etherboot for all devices, the most error-free method is - to press the reset button, keep it pressed, power on the device, and wait until the device shows up in the Netinstall window, then release the button. This holds true for the Audience as well.
... and disable ALL OTHER network interfaces on the device used to perform the netinstall.
 
hecatae
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Re: resetting wAP ac units - enormous frustration!

Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:03 pm

do you only have a crossover cable?
 
FBachofner
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Re: resetting wAP ac units - enormous frustration!

Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:07 pm

...please give me the EXACT steps I need to take to reset these devices...
Use Netinstall

OK, wiring up right now.

I'll report back later today.

Hopefully:
  1. the MikroTik-supplied POE power injector works properly so I can truly remove ALL networking equipment between the wAP ac and the PC
  2. Netinstall can work within virtualized Windows install (I have it on Virtualbox and the Windows installation therein can normally communicate within the LAN, so I am somewhat hopeful)

Thank you all for your comments!

@anav, I'll respond to your "why" as soon as I have basic control over the wAP ac once again.
Last edited by FBachofner on Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
FBachofner
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Re: resetting wAP ac units - enormous frustration!

Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:11 pm

do you only have a crossover cable?
No, I have all sorts and the tools and supplies to make more . . . 8)

I suppose I am just used to old hardware where this type of arrangement (crossover) was often useful to directly connect two devices . . .

These wAP ac s have been frustrating to me (vis-a-vis configuration) for some time (purchased a little over 2 years ago), but at least they were rock-solid once a minimum viable installation was achieved.

I am hoping to dumb them down as much as possible and have them do as little as possible other than provide a WiFi access point into the network.
 
FBachofner
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Re: resetting wAP ac units - enormous frustration!

Thu Apr 07, 2022 9:41 pm

Hi @rextended et al:
...please give me the EXACT steps I need to take to reset these devices...
Use Netinstall

OK, after much gymnastics in Virtualboxed Windows and Winbox, I seem to again have control over both wAP-ACs.

This actually "needed" to be done with just Winbox.

Attempting Netinstall through Virtualbox proved unworkable. Assigning a fixed IP to the host computer AND the Windows VM within it refused to "stick" while waiting for the wAP-AC to power up during the reset operation. The host machine just kept abandoning the fixed IP address and troubleshooting it seemed like it was going to take longer than spinning up Windows on bare metal.

However, I had this recollection that a MikroTik device can be accessed by MAC address when using Winbox, and since Winbox was working fine in the VM . . .

That proved useful and I was finally able to access the "misbehaving" wAP-AC and able to:
  1. reset it
  2. flash it with RouterOS 7.2
  3. upgrade the firmware]
I also properly reset the second wAP-AC. I can now access BOTH either through Webfig (yay!) or Winbox (blech!)

In a few moments I will post in "Beginner Basics" questions on how to keep these access points "dumb" and pull addresses from another DHCP server and put connecting client devices into VLAN assignments.


EDIT: added link to help request in "Beginner Basics"
Last edited by FBachofner on Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
FBachofner
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Re: resetting wAP ac units - enormous frustration!

Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:16 pm

Hi @anav:

I believe that the wapac's are still in shock from having their parent taken away so abruptly and are also allergic to foster pfsense parent.

I had a chuckle at both of these ideas. Thanks!
Why anyone would want to use pfsense instead of a hex unit which is a most amazing performer for its cost and size and winbox is about the best gui config I have ever used on any device........

I agree that MiktroTik produces incredible hardware.

Alas, that is not enough. For years they have gotten criticism about having a difficult and opaque user interface to manage their hardware. I was shocked when I installed 7.2 that the look and layout had not changed and improved. What seems to take seconds to figure out in DD-WRT or OpnSense I can not figure out in RouterOS to save my life (at least without resorting to extensive research and/or help requests).

I have a number of other reasons. In part:
  1. Winbox is Windows ONLY.
    • While it apparently runs well on Wine, that is persona non-grata on my systems.
    • Virtualbox has some limitations and complexities (see my comments just above re: Netinstall)
  2. Winbox is not open source.

    We gladly pay for the hardware -- so MikroTik, please open the software, it's no cost on your devices anyway.

    [ I recognize, of course, that RouterOS is in fact sold in some cases to people who wish to build their own routers. I am not knowledgeable about what percentage of MikroTik's sales this represents, but I would be surprised if it approached even 5% of the value of MT hardware sales. ]

    While I am not a developer myself, based on experience in many other similar endeavors I submit THIS (opening the source) would likely get the administration software onto Linux quickly and would likely improve the interface VERY quickly. MikroTik could still easily control the "official" version.
  3. Webfig is not a "first class citizen" in managing MikroTik hardware. (at least it is never acknowledged as such whether in the forums or by MikroTik staff)
  4. Other inexpensive hardware is (for all intents and purposes) just as power efficient, reliable and even quicker than, for example the hEX-S. I have OpnSense running on a couple J4125-based boxes in the lab and the power draw is negligible (as I recall, <2.75W). OpnSense responds instantly and is so well (intuitively) laid out, it practically guides you through setting things up. Within an hour I felt more comfortable than after two years of occasionally (and sometimes extensively) interacting with Webfig (or Winbox)

    This is the reason I traded the hEX-S to a friend who has increasing knowledge of RouterOS. ( Alas, he is unavailable for about a week and that led me back here when I had trouble with the APs. )
  5. OpnSense has inbuilt methods to register with various dynamic DNS providers. MikroTik has their own service which works well, but taken to the logical extreme, I don't trust a hardware manufacturer to know my networking hardwares' place on the open Internet. The underlying software is not open source (see above) -- who is to say that they don't have a back door in. Using a third party dynamic DNS service helps keep MikroTik at arms length.

    A workaround is apparently possible ( reply taken from a post with which you helped me a year ago ) . . .
    4. You can't easily, unless you do some scripting magic or hack the router to get access to a root shell.

    . . . but what a pain in the rear!
  6. BTW -- that VLAN project was abandoned because RouterOS was so *(&^@#$ opaque and I didn't want to spend weeks asking for help here, which it (unfortunately) looked towards. I think I will have it up and running fairly quickly in OpnSense when I really get started. I reserve the right to be wrong! :?
 
hecatae
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Re: resetting wAP ac units - enormous frustration!

Fri Apr 08, 2022 1:09 pm

I'm just surprised you have not installed OpenWRT on the wAP acs by now.
 
holvoetn
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Re: resetting wAP ac units - enormous frustration!

Fri Apr 08, 2022 2:02 pm

I'm just surprised you have not installed OpenWRT on the wAP acs by now.
Personal opinion: played with OpenWRT on hap for some evenings this week (wanted to know what the fuss is about).
It's not for me, I guess ... I can't find my way around to do what I want.
Everybody has the option to choose there own tools, I guess.
 
FBachofner
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Re: resetting wAP ac units - enormous frustration!

Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:49 pm

Hi @hecate
I'm just surprised you have not installed OpenWRT on the wAP acs by now.

You are likely making a joke, but I actually did think about doing that with the hEX-S, but I feel OpnSense is more useable and powerful moving forward. As you may know, OpnSense requires x86/x86-64/ia-64 CPUs, so installing on hEX-S was a non-starter.

I also thought reverting to RouterOS might be difficult after installing OpenWRT. Anybody knowledgeable about MikroTik would likely not want an hEX-S with OpenWRT installed.

With regard to the wAP acs I thought the following two things:
  1. Once reasonably configured, an access point often does not require much ongoing maintenance.
  2. I would still like some ability to keep exposed to RouterOS. There are useful things to be learned that can (likely) apply to other routing technologies. It will also be interesting to keep abreast of RouterOS improvements -- for example, will the interface be improved (subjective, I know!), nomenclature and/or techniques be affected by improvements made elsewhere in the industry, etc.
Last edited by FBachofner on Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
FBachofner
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Re: resetting wAP ac units - enormous frustration!

Fri Apr 08, 2022 8:02 pm

Hi @holvoetn:
Personal opinion: played with OpenWRT on hap for some evenings this week (wanted to know what the fuss is about).
It's not for me, I guess ... I can't find my way around to do what I want.
Everybody has the option to choose there own tools, I guess.

Well said, and thank God there is a healthy ecosystem around routers. I do wish all the software were open, however.

OpenWRT has some of the same "opacity" challenges as virtually all other systems. For me, OpnSense seems (so far) to be the easiest to understand, but I am not yet deep into it. It certainly also has some quirks. A well-known (and very simple) one is the fact that shutdown and reboot are not in the system menu (where many users might expect) but on a separate "power" menu.

The layout is very well thought out, however, and these sorts of things seem very easy to find.

I think one of the things which initially (near totally) confused me about RouterOS is that things like "wireless" were exposed in the interface (and seemed configurable!) even for devices such as the hEX-S which does not have wireless on board.

Such an entry is there in OpnSense too, but not as a "main menu" entry and would also NOT seem in any way configurable unless adding a requisite interface.

I hope the RouterOS developers peruse these forum posts to get some idea of where users get "hung up" with MikroTik products and how some competing products address the same issues.

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