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peracchi
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It's possible to have wifi mesh/seamless roaming with one hEX S and two hAP ac²?

Sun Apr 10, 2022 5:07 am

Hi, newbie here, experts help is required. :)

I was using two ASUS wifi routers connected by ethernet cable, one RT-AC86U and one RT-AC68U.

Wifi devices (phones and notebooks) used to change APs nicely, always using the best signal available.

The older ASUS died, now I am using another wifi router (without AiMesh from ASUS) and now I have the problem of "device stickiness". Even sitting right in front of one of the APs the device continues connected to the other AP (with weak signal).

Recently I bought one hEX S and I am very satisfied with it, I am begining to learn about MikroTik and RouterOS.

So my question is: if I buy two hAP ac² to replace the ASUS routers, can I have the same functionality of ASUS AiMesh using the hEX S as CAPsMAN server and connecting the two hAP ac² to it by ethernet cable? Will it be like ASUS AiMesh where devices gracefully switch APs?
 
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Re: It's possible to have wifi mesh/seamless roaming with one hEX S and two hAP ac²?

Sun Apr 10, 2022 11:02 am

The answer is: yes it should mimic the ASUS.
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To quote or not to quote, there is the topic: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=168474
 
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Re: It's possible to have wifi mesh/seamless roaming with one hEX S and two hAP ac²?

Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:08 pm

Be aware that, in contrary to Asus, MikroTik wireless configuration can be very "educational". At least I learned an lot of it.
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Re: It's possible to have wifi mesh/seamless roaming with one hEX S and two hAP ac²?

Sun Apr 10, 2022 5:37 pm

Thanks @BartosP and @erlinden for the answers!

I read something about "emulate mesh roaming" tweaking TX power and other settings. But it's something manual, trial and error approach...

I really apreciated the "AiMesh" from ASUS because I only enabled one setting on one router and "voilà"! Instantly best wifi signal on phones/notebooks without any disconnection or lost packets. I don't fully understand mesh tecnology, I think there is some monitoring/communication between APs about signal reception of connected devices. When some AP has better signal than other, they send some "command" to client device change AP. It is something like this?

Can MikroTik CAPsMAN do this thing?

It's possible to show me configuration commands assuming that R1 is the hEX S and AP1 and AP2 are the hAP ac²?
 
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Re: It's possible to have wifi mesh/seamless roaming with one hEX S and two hAP ac²?

Sun Apr 10, 2022 6:50 pm

Roaming on Mikrotik greatly depends on how intelligent are the client devices in detecting APs are part of the same network.
As Mikrotik doesn't support any of 802.11k/r/v/w/... roaming extensions, there is nothing to tell clients how to roam faster/better.
If client depends on any of these extensions, roaming will be painfully slow and you will lose connection for seconds, which may be
completely unacceptable for VOIP or other realtime services.

There are many roaming related topics here on forum, for example: viewtopic.php?t=163696
 
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Re: It's possible to have wifi mesh/seamless roaming with one hEX S and two hAP ac²?

Sun Apr 10, 2022 7:43 pm

Thanks for the info @r00t!

I read viewtopic.php?t=163696 and apparently no official answer from MikroTik. :(

So,
as Mikrotik doesn't support any of 802.11k/r/v/w/... roaming extensions
I will not get anything near of what ASUS AiMesh provided?

I tried to Google for AiMesh to see if it uses one or more of the protocols you quoted but I think is some proprietary protocol.

I would like to have all my network infrastructure into MikroTik ecossystem but without seamless roaming of wireless devices I think that I should buy another ASUS wifi router/AP...
 
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Re: It's possible to have wifi mesh/seamless roaming with one hEX S and two hAP ac²?

Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:52 pm

When you want "clever" behavior of the WiFi network (what others call "mesh" or similar), MikroTik is not the place to be.
Of course you can use other manufacturer's WiFi access points with MikroTik routers.

(the term "mesh" is a bit confusing because it properly refers to an interconnecting network between the APs that would usually be wireless and that automatically finds the optimal connections between the different APs to form a network with optimal performance. however, these days it is also (mis)used for any system where multiple APs serve the same area and clients are helped to select the best AP, even if the actual network between the APs is not a mesh at all)
 
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Re: It's possible to have wifi mesh/seamless roaming with one hEX S and two hAP ac²?

Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:00 am

I tried to Google for AiMesh to see if it uses one or more of the protocols you quoted but I think is some proprietary protocol.
It's common for different vendors to use some custom "secret sauce" for this under different names, but in most cases it simply means they enabled and use every extension 802.11 standard provides (so clients supporting different methods will always be happy). And then some go one step beyond with things like band steering.
But with Mikrotik, you will sadly get nothing like this so like I said, it's down to client to do all the work for seamless roaming.
This is especially bad in public deployments, where you can't control client hardware.. and it's no fun getting endless complains that phone X keeps dropping WIFI during meetings etc.

I highly recommend you try different vendors and use what's simply best for your case. Depending on where you live, you can probably return purchased items during some period without reason (or pay bit more for this option), so just buy 3-4 different APs and test them. Worst thing is to pay $$$ and still be stuck with hardware that doesn't do what you need...
 
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Re: It's possible to have wifi mesh/seamless roaming with one hEX S and two hAP ac²?

Wed Apr 13, 2022 9:48 am

capsman has nothing to do with it, and the configuration menu mesh in the mikrotik is also not going to help much.
As stated earlier Mikrotik devices currently do not support any of the protocols that allow this to happen with some smarts and everything is to do with the client BUT that does not mean we are helpless.
If you take a look at the wireless menu there is a tab called access lists, what you can do in here is create 2 rules, one will be for the signal that you would like to allow the devices to connect with and then the second rule can be one the does not allow any device to connect above this range.

If you do this and have the ssid and password the same between the wireless what should happen is that once the device gets out of the allowed signal range it should be forced to disconnect from the access point from there it is up to the device to connect to another SSID and usually it will be the one that has the strongest signal.

This will cause some packet loss and it will not be seamless but if done right you are able to set this up so you will only miss a word or two of a voip call when 'roaming' :)

https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:I ... ccess_List
 
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Re: It's possible to have wifi mesh/seamless roaming with one hEX S and two hAP ac²?

Wed Apr 13, 2022 10:23 am

If you take a look at the wireless menu there is a tab called access lists, what you can do in here is create 2 rules, one will be for the signal that you would like to allow the devices to connect with and then the second rule can be one the does not allow any device to connect above this range.
Well, that would require you to map out the signal strength from (nearly) all of your clients at all of the positions in your home, and judge what kind of levels you can expect in good and bad connection situations...
It will be a lot of work and when you get this not right, your clients will have no connection at all instead of a slow connection.
It will depend on your requirements (and you available time) if this is a viable path.
 
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Re: It's possible to have wifi mesh/seamless roaming with one hEX S and two hAP ac²?

Wed Apr 27, 2022 4:48 am

Well, that would require you to map out the signal strength from (nearly) all of your clients at all of the positions in your home, and judge what kind of levels you can expect in good and bad connection situations...
It will be a lot of work and when you get this not right, your clients will have no connection at all instead of a slow connection.
It will depend on your requirements (and you available time) if this is a viable path.
I think that is thinking way to into it, why kick your phone off at -60 just so you can connect to another device at -50? that makes not sense, the rules are the easy part as anything from -70 to -80 would be where I cut the clients off. The hard part would be installing the AP's around each other so that way you get the coverage that is needed but that is relatively simple by estimating it with the gain of the antenna and the type it is or by testing it with your phone connecting before installing them where they will permanently go.
 
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Re: It's possible to have wifi mesh/seamless roaming with one hEX S and two hAP ac²?

Wed Apr 27, 2022 4:31 pm

Disgusted by the complete garbage above.
MT hapac2 device has ZERO mesh functionality.
Learning MT is not trivial, and trying to learn that and capsman at the same time is ridonkulous.

I can fully recommend MT wifi when they move to WIFI6 products.
The only MT wifi5 product that may come close to a type of meshing is the Audience.

Other with experience with this units can talk to its effectiveness.
Also you can put Audience or Mesh in the Search block top right and read on your own.
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Re: It's possible to have wifi mesh/seamless roaming with one hEX S and two hAP ac²?

Wed Apr 27, 2022 5:36 pm

Lets keep this simple.

YOU CAN WIRE BOTH ACCESS POINTS?
Yes or No?

Moving on... hap AC2 are WiFi AC V1. The RT-AC86U that you have are WiFi AC V2.
So as a radio... the Asus is a better WIRELESS ACCESS POINT. Skip all the other stuff... as a radio serving a client... you would be going backwards.

Configure the ASUS units as WIRELESS ACCESS POINTS.
HARDWIRE BOTH ASUS BACK TO THE NETWORK.
Set 2 IP addresses OUTSIDE the DHCP_POOL for the ASUS units
Set them to the same SSID and Password.
Set them to use different channels that don't overlap one another.
Place them (ASUS WAPS) so the signal levels from each unit BARELY REACH THE NEXT ONE. (This will cause clients to move to the closer WAP)

Its called ROUTEROS for a reason.
Let it route.

But I would highly recommend OTHER wireless... like the Asus.

ANAV has more faith than I do with the next generation of Mikrotik Wireless.
My Audience running WiFi 5 ACV2 still has problems with crashing and access control lists.

The older ACv1 radios are more stable and offer more features... but have problems with JUST BEING A WIRELESS ACCESS POINT and serving clients.

(Notice I did not even go into wireless MESHING DEVCIES, WITHOUT A WIRED CONNECTION.)
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."
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Re: It's possible to have wifi mesh/seamless roaming with one hEX S and two hAP ac²?

Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:26 pm

Hi Gotsprings, I didnt endorse the Audience if you noted and since MT is using stock wifi chips now on their devices and moving away from the proprietary, I expect performance to be on par with others..... Of course they could prove me wrong but certainly it seems with hapac3 and Audience, they still dont seem to get it right. How many times did I implore them to wine and dine BPWL to spend some time in Riga to ensure they knew what they were doing LOL.

To be fair, I much prefer working within RoS, for all of my devices if it was feasible and that is without using capsman, straight RoS config for me on Wifi is simple and the config works...........
Since getting my peepee whacked for noting other vendors, I will say that I dont like ASUS, but if anyone wants recommendations they search previous posts or email me.
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Re: It's possible to have wifi mesh/seamless roaming with one hEX S and two hAP ac²?

Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:53 am

Anav
I have about zero faith in WiFi6 happening in routerOS and supported in caps-man.

WAVE2 doesn't work in caps-man and like I stated... They think the crashing of a simple config is due to having one virtual AP.

I grind my teeth when I think about how much time I wasted on caps-man. Like I always stated... If it could control a good radio... It would be the best thing I have seen.

I gave in an ordered a Netgear this morning. I feel dirty.
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."
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Re: It's possible to have wifi mesh/seamless roaming with one hEX S and two hAP ac²?

Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:57 am

i think wifi6 will be on MikroTik but maybe it will take more time than you will like

dont forget how much time took with wifi5
 
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Re: It's possible to have wifi mesh/seamless roaming with one hEX S and two hAP ac²?

Fri Apr 29, 2022 4:56 pm

i think wifi6 will be on MikroTik but maybe it will take more time than you will like

dont forget how much time took with wifi5
chechito, one would think, no hope, no desperately assume that the chaps in Latvia have learned some hard lessons with Wifi5 fiasco.
If not, then its simply that they dont care about home wifi. Just wish they would come clean, and let us know! The owners of MT are Latvian Millionaires, if they are reading this post get off your fat asses and hire bpwl!!, and to add years onto Normis' stressful life, and allow me to recommend wifi6 MT products and to prove gotsprings wrong LOL ;-)
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Re: It's possible to have wifi mesh/seamless roaming with one hEX S and two hAP ac²?

Sat Apr 30, 2022 9:56 am

i think wifi6 will be on MikroTik but maybe it will take more time than you will like

dont forget how much time took with wifi5
chechito, one would think, no hope, no desperately assume that the chaps in Latvia have learned some hard lessons with Wifi5 fiasco.
If not, then its simply that they dont care about home wifi. Just wish they would come clean, and let us know! The owners of MT are Latvian Millionaires, if they are reading this post get off your fat asses and hire bpwl!!, and to add years onto Normis' stressful life, and allow me to recommend wifi6 MT products and to prove gotsprings wrong LOL ;-)
It's not just home wifi.

I can't use caps-man in my bars, restaurants, public event spaces, etc.

I would love to... But it has failed in glorious fashion too many times, and showed no sign of changing.

But... On the wifi6 thing.

Other vendors have WiFi6E out now. I am typing this connected to a WiFi6E access point. On my Pixel 6Pro. Connected to the 6Ghz radio. (Which doesn't go very far, as you might imagine.)

My primary wireless vendor has said they intend to kind of "pass over WiFi6E in favor of WiFi7". I can pretty much forget about using a 6Ghz radio from them, until then. They have pulled everything into WiFi6 now. With one UBER EXPENSIVE WiFi6E AP coming out in the next 30 days. But no other parts planned till 7.
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Re: It's possible to have wifi mesh/seamless roaming with one hEX S and two hAP ac²?

Sat Apr 30, 2022 5:28 pm

Probably as they have discovered that chasing technology is expensive and WIFI6 products are heads and tails better than wifi5 and good enough for the bar/restaurant scene (and my bad I meant ALL WIFI other than wisp type wifi - which I would have no qualms using Mikrotik Cube products for that 100-800M outdoors to get wifi to a location, its the last 30 metres indoors that we are talking about LOL). Your clients have to make the business decision and wifi6 is very affordable and customers probably have stopped complaining etc.
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