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Mantic
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CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Sat Aug 20, 2022 10:10 pm

We have a new setup of about 15 CubeSA 60Pro AC access points with Cube 60Pro AC client radios and since we installed them, we're getting frequent drops on all 60Ghz clients. We have a simple setup with bonding (for 5Ghz failover) and can't see why this is happening. Any suggestions on where to look? Both AP and CPE are running 7.4.1.

I've tried turning on wireless / info or debug in the logs and aren't getting anything. The client signal strenghts are in the 80's and 90's with an MCS of 8.

AP 60ghz config:
/interface w60g set [ find ] disabled=no frequency=66960 isolate-stations=no name=AP-60Ghz put-stations-in-bridge=bridge region=usa ssid=myap
/interface bonding add mode=active-backup name=bond1 primary=AP-60Ghz slaves=AP-60Ghz,AP-5Ghz 
Client 60ghz config:
/interface w60g set [ find ] disabled=no mode=station-bridge name=wlan60 put-stations-in-bridge=bridge region=usa scan-list=58320,60480,62640,64800,66000,66960 ssid=myap
/interface bonding add mode=active-backup name=bond1 primary=wlan60 slaves=wlan60,wlan1
I mean, it's all pretty vanilla.
20220820 12_45_09.png
20220820 12_44_25.png
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honzam
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Sun Aug 21, 2022 9:59 pm

We have the same problem in multiple places. So problem is in RouterOS. We wait for fix....
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Mantic
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:57 pm

We are looking into increasing our vertical separation on several of our APs. What distance are your APs from each other? Ours are about 10" away from each other vertically. We are also considering adding some EM shields on the backs... if that could help.
 
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honzam
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:19 pm

The problem is not caused by interference. It also happens to us in places where is 1x AP
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DeDMorozzzz
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Tue Aug 23, 2022 12:55 pm

The same is happening with old 802.11AD devices I think its a driver issue
 
Wolfgang4973
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Thu Aug 25, 2022 8:13 pm

I met this problem also , Both AP and client running 6.49.6,I saw large amount of IRQ related with ether net interface. Hope this will be useful to solve this.
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kabrutus
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Fri Aug 26, 2022 6:23 am

We have a new setup of about 15 CubeSA 60Pro AC access points with Cube 60Pro AC client radios and since we installed them, we're getting frequent drops on all 60Ghz clients. We have a simple setup with bonding (for 5Ghz failover) and can't see why this is happening. Any suggestions on where to look? Both AP and CPE are running 7.4.1.

I've tried turning on wireless / info or debug in the logs and aren't getting anything. The client signal strenghts are in the 80's and 90's with an MCS of 8.

AP 60ghz config:
/interface w60g set [ find ] disabled=no frequency=66960 isolate-stations=no name=AP-60Ghz put-stations-in-bridge=bridge region=usa ssid=myap
/interface bonding add mode=active-backup name=bond1 primary=AP-60Ghz slaves=AP-60Ghz,AP-5Ghz 
Client 60ghz config:
/interface w60g set [ find ] disabled=no mode=station-bridge name=wlan60 put-stations-in-bridge=bridge region=usa scan-list=58320,60480,62640,64800,66000,66960 ssid=myap
/interface bonding add mode=active-backup name=bond1 primary=wlan60 slaves=wlan60,wlan1
I mean, it's all pretty vanilla.

20220820 12_45_09.png

20220820 12_44_25.png
Same exact setup and hardware. Same issue :(
 
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honzam
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Fri Aug 26, 2022 9:42 am

The same problem with 7.5rc1. Mikrotik are you working on it?
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Fri Aug 26, 2022 9:02 pm

Any update on this @Mikrotik? I have purchased quite a bit of these and they are currently useless. @normis
 
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Mon Aug 29, 2022 5:27 pm

We deployed 2 sectors and 12 Cube60Pro AC's at a fairground for a recent event and had nothing but problems. I ended up having to disable 60Ghz entirely to get them working, and nearly lost the contract for the event while it was going on.

Mikrotik, let's get an answer on this please before I end up returning the entire lot to our distributor.
 
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Mon Aug 29, 2022 9:58 pm

It seems like it only happens when you pair the CubeSA 60Pro with the multiple Cube 60Pro.

I have swapped out the Cube 60Pro with wAP60 and paired those with CubeSA 60Pro work fine.

I also swapped out the CubeSA 60Pro with wAP 60Gx3 AP and paired those with multiple Cube 60Pro and that worked fine.

I hope there is an update soon...
 
lambert
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:33 am

Have any of you filed support tickets with MikroTik? They often fail to notice posts like this.

The way to get MikroTik to look at an issue is to file a support request with support@mikrotik.com
 
DeDMorozzzz
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Thu Sep 01, 2022 3:10 pm

Guys
802.11 AD and AY are not TDMA protocols. Maybe thats why it flaps...
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honzam
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Thu Sep 01, 2022 9:45 pm

Yes. Reported 12/Jul/22 to support. SUP-86857
No sollution yet
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Wolfgang4973
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Fri Sep 02, 2022 4:47 am

Only TCP Stream pass through AP Bridge Ether1 interface can cause this
 
kabrutus
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Sat Sep 03, 2022 12:01 am

Yup. SUP-91227
 
Wolfgang4973
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Sat Sep 03, 2022 9:44 pm

Client's Up&Down are closely related with Ether interface's IRQ , and It seemed that there is no IRQ load Balance , CPU#0 will response All those IRQ, then, CPU #0 reached 100% usage, then, flapping occurred. and I think IRQ Load Balance and IRQ Merge will reduce flapping.
And I also feel puzzled abut why not Ethernet hardware forwarding does not work.
 
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Thu Sep 15, 2022 11:30 pm

Any update on this? Support sent me an alpha build to test, but it didnt work. Same issue....
 
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honzam
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Fri Sep 16, 2022 12:04 pm

Any update on this? Support sent me an alpha build to test, but it didnt work. Same issue....
I can confirm. I'm also testing alpha and it didn't help
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:03 pm

@mikrotik.com Any update on this?
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Ramik
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:01 pm

I can't comprehend this kind of bug existing since product release (effectively rendering it unusable) and not having a fix for it.
 
Rox169
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:58 pm

And we are not talking here that hhen you point Cube 60 down, there is big chance to get water inside and break the device.
 
Wolfgang4973
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Sat Oct 01, 2022 4:00 pm

Guys, does any one make a try on 7.6beta10 ?
 
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Thu Oct 06, 2022 9:19 am

Having this issue on a brand new deployment of CubeSA as ptmp access point for 6 stations. It's 100% recreatable. If I run an internet speed test from any 60g station the CubeSA immediately drops and re-associates all stations, resulting in service disruption for all stations.

I've updated tonight to new 7.6rc1. Issue unaffected - still 100% reproducable. Going to tower tonight to take this hardware down and replace it. Sad. It's really beautifully constructed. Had high hopes for it.

Only thing we found to prevent it was to go power down all but one station. When only one is connected it's completely solved, reliably, over many tests. Reconnect the other stations again so it's now having to do point to multipoint? 100% reproducable again.

Odd because on the previous series APx3 and even the original cubes upgraded to level 4 license to act as ptmp access point we can run huge loads with complete stability no problem.

Sent our support file into mikrotik. SUP-94299
 
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:16 am

AP 60ghz config:
/interface w60g set [ find ] disabled=no frequency=66960 isolate-stations=no name=AP-60Ghz put-stations-in-bridge=bridge region=usa ssid=myap
/interface bonding add mode=active-backup name=bond1 primary=AP-60Ghz slaves=AP-60Ghz,AP-5Ghz 
Client 60ghz config:
/interface w60g set [ find ] disabled=no mode=station-bridge name=wlan60 put-stations-in-bridge=bridge region=usa scan-list=58320,60480,62640,64800,66000,66960 ssid=myap
/interface bonding add mode=active-backup name=bond1 primary=wlan60 slaves=wlan60,wlan1
Not directly related to your problem:
I see that your config includes bonding of the 60G interface itself, I didn't know I could do it that way?
In the default setup for the preconfigured Cube 60 kit the station interface is included as both primary and slave in the bonding.
As station interfaces are added dynamically as new clients connect, I thought I could not use bonding, and resorted to an RSTP bridge on both sides instead.

I guess detecting broken 60G on the client side is easy for the bonding, but with this way of doing it, what will make the AP side switch to 5G? One client disappearing does not necessary mean that they all leave?
Last edited by Bomber67 on Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Bomber67
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:42 am

Not directly related to your problem:
I see that your config includes bonding of the 60G interface itself, I didn't know I could do it that way?
In the default setup for the preconfigured Cube 60 kit the station interface is included as both primary and slave in the bonding.
As station interfaces are added dynamically as new clients connect, I thought I could not use bonding, and resorted to an RSTP bridge on both sides instead.

I guess detecting broken 60G on the client side is easy for the bonding, but with this way of doing it, what will make the AP side switch to 5G? One client disappearing does not necessary mean that they all leave?
Gave your way of doing it a try now.
Appears to me that all the failover functionality is taken care of by the client side; when disabling the 60G-interface on either side, the client side bonding instantly switches 5G to active port and 60G to inactive, when re-enabling 60G it switches back.
On the AP side the 60G interface is permanently rendered as inactive port and 5G as active, it does not react to the 60G being disabled or enabled.
Disabling 5G however makes it swap active and inactive ports, but that does not do anything to the client side, which is happy with its 60G connection...

For the time being I have not yet tested with serveral clients using this setup.
But my question is:
In a PtMP setup, what is the advantage of using bonding in favour of RSTP bridges?
 
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:09 pm

@mikrotik any news on this? Hook us up already? It's been months without a solution on a new product that failed to work as advertised.
 
TragedyMan
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:18 pm

I have the same problem... When I try Btest between client and AP from client side... Recieve is OK.... Send = link down... no data.. AP sometimes freeze, only power recycle helps. FW 7.6

But I see the problem.. The wireless Phy rate was >3Gbps ..then it's always link down and up.. When we change direction, the quality drops under 2.5 Gbps... everything stable...

Can be the Phy rate set manually ?
Last edited by TragedyMan on Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
millenium7
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Thu Nov 03, 2022 2:59 am

Can they be downgraded to ROSv6? I havn't tried the CubeSA yet, but found with other 60ghz mikrotik products that its quite stable with 6.49.6

Other things to think of...
/int w60g set 0 mgmt-fix=yes
Can try that on the AP, no idea if its supported with the CubeSA products. Not even entirely sure what it does, but noticed an improvement in stability on a wap60gx3
My guesstimate is it duplicates certain management traffic frames across all clients, as I noticed all clients have more traffic instead of all sitting idle except those that are actively transmitting

Get rid of the bonding interface? Try with just 60ghz
If that works it would be possible to use an isolated OSPF+BFD instance between AP and all SM's for failover, instead of using bonding interface
 
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Tue Nov 08, 2022 12:16 am

Anyone get any luck on this front since @mikrotik says they can't replicate the issue....

I have all this gear and can't use it. My bosses are like WTF you going to do with all this gear....
 
Ramik
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:45 am

If Mikrotik says it can't replicate the issue then let's see a youtube video from them on how to get it working - our engineers (who also happen to be 'tik instructors) have spent days trying to get it working without any luck.
 
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:39 pm

Has anyone who opened a support ticket received any updates on this issue? It was pretty easy to replicate in a lab with 3 CubeSA 60Pros on 6.49.6. 1 in AP Bridge mode and the other 2 station bridges. Within 10-20 seconds after initiating a speed test from the AP to 1 of the stations, the other station drops for a few seconds then comes back up. I don't have any bonding configured and 5 GHz interfaces are disabled. Also, set 0 mdmg-fix=yes did not make any difference.

I was hoping to use these in multipoint mode, but I guess I'll have to come up with another plan. Glad I saw this before deploying.
 
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honzam
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Re: CubeSA 60Pro ac: 60Ghz clients flapping

Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:41 pm

I have several tickets open. From the beginning, Mikrotik trying to help - communication. Now silence and no solution. Same as here on the forum.
I don't know why, but Mikrotik often chooses the tactic of silence :-( I don't know why, but it's not good for this new products - could say "flagships"

@Mikrotik can you coment it?
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