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sarunasr
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Wireless channels and vlans

Thu Oct 27, 2022 4:41 pm

Hello Mikrotik community,
I'm quite new at mikrotik and have some problems now. I attached my home network simple scheme and configuration.
I have a lot of smart devices at my home and my I have neighbors who also taken a lot of channels.
The main problem is that wi fi is very slow and I don't know what to do. I tried to create topic at mikrotik support but they said that the problem that my router has problem with cpu and suggest me to disable capsman and configure access point separately. I did it and they stopped reply me.. My smart devices disconnecting from wi fi, my phone slowly opening pages (sometimes I turnoff wi fi and using mobile data - it's faster). Speed test some times shows 1mbps, sometimes 30. In the second floor if I'm near access point it was 70mbps but it was maybe two times. I tried all channels, tried 20 and 40mhz width..
Another problem is vlans and bridges. Currently I configured vlans incorrect. I need "router on a stick" but when I did like in this video (https://youtu.be/4BOYqtV4MCY?list=PLyj7 ... MVq&t=1174) wi fi clients didn't get ip address. Also why my lacp (bonding) interface must be in bridge? I tried to remove it from bridge and loosed access to my router (I restored it from backup).
Maybe someone can help me. I really need help I spent a lot of time to try fix my issues but I don't if I will fix it. I thinking maybe change router and AP which will have 5ghz but I hope that with this forum help we will solve my network problems.
P.S. If I using LAN cable everything okay and I have max speed 100 mbps.
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erlinden
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Re: Wireless channels and vlans

Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:50 pm

If the 2.4GHz band is saturated, well...it is.

Can you perform a wireless scan with both devices and share it here?
Can you please remove CAPsMAN as it is not the best choice?
Last but not least…can you share the config of both MikroTik devices (remove all personal information) and share it here?

And in case of configuring VLANs...only use this great topic:
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=143620
 
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bpwl
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Re: Wireless channels and vlans

Thu Oct 27, 2022 6:37 pm

Don't forget the wifi basics. Mikrotik or not, there is no escape.
And indeed CAPsMAN is extra overhead. Use it when you master the rest.

Some basic wifi limits I see:
Using 2.4GHz, OK but
- there are only 3 non-overlapping 20 MHz channels, for all your devices and all of the neighbors to share. Channel 1 , 6 and 11.
- 40 MHz would use 2 of the 3 channels. Not optimal here.
- If someone is using another channel than 1,6,11 it will interfere(interrupt) with 2 of the good channels
- If 802.11b is somewhere activated then 30 SSID in a channel will already consume all available airtime
- There is only 1 (ONE) talker in any channel at any time (sharing air-time)
- If that talker is slow (1mbps) it will hold up everbody else for talking in that channel (for all SSID in that channel)

Use the "Registration table" in MT to see what the interface rate is that you get, keep it high (It''s very dynamic, will be high close to the AP, will be 1 mbps if wrong floor)
Client devices decide which AP to use, and tend to be "sticky", so they keep using the initial AP, even when now on another floor, until disconnected.
 
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sarunasr
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Re: Wireless channels and vlans

Thu Oct 27, 2022 10:27 pm

Hello erlinden and bpwl
Thanks for reply.
Yes, I already disabled CAPsMAN and configured access point separately.
Please check this link. I uploaded a lot of screenshots, Router and AP configs.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing
You will see AP and Router scanner doesn't see a lot of SSID but look at Analyzer.jpg I quickly went through my home with laptop and booom there are a lot of SSIDs.
I also added cpu graph from zabbix, I think it's enough CPU there are some CPU jumps while exporting config and also while I leave winbox opened I don't know why it takes a lot of cpu but I remember that I leaved opened winbox and my internet goes done frequently, one internet down you will see in that cpu.jpg graph too.
I also attached speed test results from my computer which connected through cable it's always works good and mobile phone from first floor (router and second floor (AP).
erlinden, thanks for guide regarding vlans I will try to do that.
Also is possible to change channel for SSID? Because I have two SSIDs for users and for devices.
 
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bpwl
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Re: Wireless channels and vlans

Thu Oct 27, 2022 11:38 pm

That's a lot to look at :-)

You see that the analyser interface rate is just the maximum possible interface rate for that protocol (802.11n).
The 1+5 and 4+8 channel 40MHz channels are disturbing your used channels 1 and 6.
The registration table is what you actually get as interface rate. There is a lot of 11Mbps there! Not clear (yet) why this is. But it is disturbingly low after 11 minutes uptime.
As extra information the CCQ should be interesting. Is poor CCQ the reason for 11Mbps in TX rate ??? If you open the TX and RX columns you will see if 2S or1S is used. (2S= 2 chain, goes up to 144.4Mbps, 1S will be 72.2Mbps max). 11Mbps is not even one of the 802.11n interface rates, but from 802.11g. G-client devices? (cfr https://mcsindex.com/ HT MCS8/2S or MCS1/1S is 13Mbps)
Sometimes negotiated RX rate is much better. Strange? Something set in the AP ??? I see "rate-set=configured" but did not find the rates set. [ all rates should be supported up to 54Mbps for 802.11g and all HT MCS 00 till MCS23 for 802.11n. But that is the default and may be left out of the RSC file for that reason]
The real net usable datarate will be 50-70% of that interface rate.
Do you really need that 802.11b. Avoid "b" if you can. Having one transmission with "b" will force all other AP to also support "b", even if they are set to "n-only". Your analyser shows all supporting b/g/n for this reason.

First impression: surrounding traffic is rather low, and should cause no problems, but the used interface rate is a point of concern here.

You are free to use different channels for the same SSID on both AP. The client device will still roam from one channel to the other, for the same SSID.
Last edited by bpwl on Fri Oct 28, 2022 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
gotsprings
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Re: Wireless channels and vlans

Fri Oct 28, 2022 12:08 am

There may not be an escape from really saturated noisy environments... There are other manufactures who's radios do a F--kTon better under those circumstances. And to be honest... Mikrotik is one of the worst when it comes to that.

And don't take it personal that support didn't get back to you. Back when I wasted all my time on their wifi... They would give me one useless reply per month.

Now that's out of my system...

Try another vendor for the wifi.

I had to work at an install where the customer had put in 120 wireless light switches. They completely swamped the wifi.

See the fun part was... Sales sold him several cAP XL AC. Under the agreement that he was:
1. In the middle of no where. (No neighbors to compete with)
2. Low usage without many devices.
3. Not gonna complain when wireless speeds will be in the mid 200s at best.

After about 2 weeks of endless complaints. Swapped out all the cAP XL ACs for our other vendor.

Not a peep in 2 months now.
 
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sarunasr
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Re: Wireless channels and vlans

Fri Oct 28, 2022 9:49 am

bpwl,
In the same URL I added mikrotik.mp4 file. I recorded all tabs in wireless configuration.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... PHjWslIYOg
Actually I don't have answers to your questions because I don't have a lot of knowledge in wi-fi yet. But maybe you will find it in my video? My configuration is just for experiments...
I will try all variants which you will suggest to try, so please if you can suggest me what settings would you set in my environment and lets see what will happen.

gotsprings,
Thanks for suggestion. This variant would be the last thing.. Now I will try to get max speed from current setup.
 
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bpwl
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Re: Wireless channels and vlans

Sat Oct 29, 2022 10:13 pm

Brrr Google Drive insisted on processing the mp4 file before allowing me to download it. Had to come back for this.

Quite a specific way of documenting your setup. It is complete, but forces me to stop the play end move back several times. On some screens I want to see more, others are irrelevant (nstreme, nv2 are not used). Have o just remeber things as well.

Looks good , even the performance now shows 50+Mbps interface rate in most cases.

But....

- I don't like your Data Rate setting. "Default" is recommended to start the test. If Configured then the b-rates should NOT be selected. 1,2,5.5,11 supported rates should be off.
1 Mbps basic rate should be off as well.
- In the basic rates, 6Mbps is good, 6,12,24Mbps is a tuning setting, not really relevant here, t in general.
- HT MCS-rates are correct

But maybe more important: the access-lists normally will pose a problem. You devide devices and users over VLAN 80 and 90, via their SSID (wlan) default VLAN setting.
Access-list entries overrule this default wlan settng. If I remember the mp4 well, they differ from the default! So that means your client connection will be VLAN mode "no tag/vlanid=1" !!!!
But VLAN mode "default" might ignore the VLAN id entry in the access list (I use "use tag" and then it changes the VLAN id) (Don't know how RouterOS reacts to "default" on this. It is not documented in the wiki or HELP)
 
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sarunasr
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Re: Wireless channels and vlans

Sun Oct 30, 2022 8:47 pm

Hi bpwl,
Nice result!
Configured data rates setup screenshot in the same google drive URL (data-rates.jpg). I moved old all files to the "old" folder.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... PHjWslIYOg

I got around 55 mbps upload and download speed from router (first floor) and around 95mbps from access point (second floor)! It's really great.
But speed jumping and if I am not near access point or router then speed going down around two or more times. For example in room (about 6-7 meters from access point) speed now is around 25mbps upload and download. I see in registration table 6mps tx rate and 117 rx rate, tx/rx signal -74 dBm.
But it's really better than before.

Regarding access list. Yes it's vlan1 but devices getting correct IP from correct vlan. (check leases.jpg), my vlan 1 network is 192.168.88.0.
I made that access list rules to improve wi-fi roaming. Maybe exist another way? Because without these rules My devices from first floor connecting to second..

I will check nstreme and nv2, I saw these tab's but actually I don't know what it is and how to configure it correctly.
 
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bpwl
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Re: Wireless channels and vlans

Mon Oct 31, 2022 5:24 pm

Glad you have a better wifi now.

Is this a one-time problem, or does it come back when you re-enable the supported b-rates and basic b-rate when BAND set to "2GHzonly-n"?
There is a lot of 11Mbps there! Not clear (yet) why this is. But it is disturbingly low after 11 minutes uptime.
That lock on b-rates that was initialy there (many TX-rates all at 11Mbps), could cripple many other installations then.
If reproducable, I would consider this a major issue.
 
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sarunasr
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Re: Wireless channels and vlans

Mon Oct 31, 2022 6:17 pm

I didn't try to change these settings back yet. But maybe should I change band to 2ghz b/g/n? Or should I leave only n?
Also my smart doorbell disconnecting frequently after these settings maybe signal is to low but its around 3 meters from router just thick outdoor wall could be a problem..
But it starts disconnecting after these changes. Maybe it was slow network reason?
 
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bpwl
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Re: Wireless channels and vlans

Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:01 pm

I only suspect the combination "2GHz-only-n" and the explicit support in configured data rates for b-rates, to lock into b-rates.

2GHz b/g/n for sure and even 2GHz g/n are supposed to be fine with those b-rates. Altough I never configure b-rates as supported.
The reactions of the MT on b/g/n , g/n, and only-n are a bit of a mystery.
Even wiki/HELP documents look special for only-n:
Klembord-2.jpg
On your access-list entries with VLAN id, I never looked at "default" for VLAN Mode, because it's not documented what VLAN id takes precedence, the access list or the WLAN setting.
With your test it seems to be the WLAN setting, for VLAN Mode and VLAN id
So I have access-list entries per wlan interface, tagging the correct intended VLAN id under "use tag".
Only other difference is the "Allow signal out of range" which is set longer for Authentication, and much shorter for deny. (I want devices to be able to reconnect faster than in 10 sec, when they come back in range.)
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sarunasr
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Re: Wireless channels and vlans

Thu Nov 03, 2022 1:14 pm

Hi bpwl,
Thank you a lot for your help. I didn't change anything yet. With current settings "I can live" :D
But maybe exist a way to set "more power" for wi fi. I mean wi fi speed perfect if I'm near access point. but it extremely going down if I am several meters from it.
Also speed is higher when I connected to access point so maybe I can improve something in router?

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