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McKajVah
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Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Sat Jun 11, 2022 10:43 am

Hi.

This NIC is getting more and more used in small router boxes +++.

Is it possible to add support for the Intel i225-V NIC?
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Sat Jun 11, 2022 12:24 pm

What you mean with: "add support for the Intel i225-V NIC?"

What support for what?

(Too vague request are perfecly discarded, also some perfectly described)
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Mon Jun 13, 2022 3:03 am

What you mean with: "add support for the Intel i225-V NIC?"

What support for what?

(Too vague request are perfecly discarded, also some perfectly described)
.

By adding the drivers for the Intel i225-V network chips for the x86 and CHR versions of RouterOS.
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Mon Jun 13, 2022 3:16 pm

I believe they are already in RouterOS v7
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Mon Jun 13, 2022 5:31 pm

I believe they are already in RouterOS v7
.
Doesn't seem like it. No ethernet adapters found...
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:08 pm

+1 for this

keep in mind there are several revisions of this NIC
Intel i225V (rev 3) being the most relevant today
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Wed Jun 15, 2022 10:56 am

+1
Image

the device show in pci devices it but there is no network interface

ROS 7.4beta2 x86_64
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Wed Jun 15, 2022 12:06 pm

I see problem stories using this card under Linux dated earlier in this year, so probably it is not a matter of "it works in the default kernel".
And maybe it is solved in a later kernel version but of course v7 will (like v6) at some time freeze to a certain kernel version and we can expect that "new" devices again will become problematic over time.
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Wed Jun 15, 2022 12:34 pm

By adding the drivers for the Intel i225-V network chips for the x86 and CHR versions of RouterOS.

x86 ROS is dead or dying, and CHR leaves the hardware support to the hypervisor, as it should. I suggest using CHR.
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Wed Jun 15, 2022 5:46 pm

CHR can leave hardware NIC support to the hypervisor but that have a significant performance penalty

if CHR support the NIC, you can configure hypervisor to do passthrough improving performance dramatically, close to bare-metal
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Wed Jun 15, 2022 8:45 pm

Concur! Serious controller manufacturers develops device drivers that supports Single Root I/O Virtualization (SR-IOV) which enables hardware to run as "bare metal" using hypervisors like for example VMware ESXi and Microsoft Hyper-V. This is the way! 🚀
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:31 am

Concur! Serious controller manufacturers develops device drivers that supports Single Root I/O Virtualization (SR-IOV) which enables hardware to run as "bare metal" using hypervisors like for example VMware ESXi and Microsoft Hyper-V. This is the way! 🚀
.
Yes, but problem is that the i225-v doesn't support SR-IOV...

You can now get a small fanless box with an Intel N5105 CPU and 4xi225-v NICs for around $160. These are great for running Proxmox with a few VM's.

Without proper driver support for the i225-v in RouterOS CHR to do pci-e passthrough, you are not getting the best possible performance. Remember these NICs support 2.5G...

It would be great if Mikrotik were to include the drivers for them.
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:10 am

It would be great if Mikrotik were to include the drivers for them.
Did you already investigate if "standard Linux distributions" support this out-of-the-box?
Did you need to install a driver or firmware package?
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:04 pm

It would be great if Mikrotik were to include the drivers for them.

@McKajVah, MT abandoned general support for Linux/x86 many years ago. viewtopic.php?t=143390

Without proper driver support for the i225-v in RouterOS CHR to do pci-e passthrough, you are not getting the best possible performance. Remember these NICs support 2.5G...

There is proper driver support for I225V in Linux, Windows and VMware ESXi using high speed DMA transfers. However, it's up to the manufacturer (ie Intel in this case and not MT) to adjust and fine tune the device drivers for the intended use.

In general there are tons of low-cost high speed NIC's with good enough device drivers for home usage. I'm pretty sure you will be able to achieve close to max speed with CHR using 4 or 8 line pcie and the standard drivers.

Yes, but problem is that the i225-v doesn't support SR-IOV...

Regarding SR-IOV it's all about load during concurrent processing that probably isn't vital in case of regular home usage.
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:47 am

@Larsa: I don't understand why you seem to be against it. There are now several people just in this thread wanting Mikrotik to support the i225-v directly.

Also to me it still seems that Mikrotik are actively developing the x86 version, just see latest stable release with support for new NICs, fixes, etc...

We are just asking Mikrotik to support the i225-v directly, don't put more into it than that.
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:36 am

It would be great if Mikrotik were to include the drivers for them.
Did you already investigate if "standard Linux distributions" support this out-of-the-box?
Did you need to install a driver or firmware package?
.
yes, it is included in newer distributions. Seems i225-v support was included in kernel 5.6.

From 5.6 changelog: "Add SKU for i225 device commit".
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Fri Jun 17, 2022 1:58 pm

@Larsa: I don't understand why you seem to be against it. There are now several people just in this thread wanting Mikrotik to support the i225-v directly. Also to me it still seems that Mikrotik are actively developing the x86 version, just see latest stable release with support for new NICs, fixes, etc... We are just asking Mikrotik to support the i225-v directly, don't put more into it than that.

I'm not against anything but maybe we just talk past each other.

What I'm trying to say is that if you need to support "bare metal" installation for a ROS Appliance it's like any regular installation of Windows or Linux direkt on hardware. It means a huge undertaking to constantly sort out what public available hardware to support and commit to long time maintenance of related device drivers which is unrealistic for a company like MT.

However If you instead virtualise it all, you put the entire responsibility on the hardware manufacturers for operation and maintenance of device drivers. Also, nowadays the virtualisation has become so effective the difference in speed for I/O barely is measurable compared to a regular installation.

Bottom line, make use of CHR since it makes all much easer, both for the end user and MT as a developer. And you also get full support for I225V.
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:20 pm

What I'm trying to say is that if you need to support "bare metal" installation for a ROS Appliance it's like any regular installation of Windows or Linux direkt on hardware. It means a huge undertaking to constantly sort out what public available hardware to support and commit to long time maintenance of related device drivers which is unrealistic for a company like MT.
It would not be that unrealistic when they just get the "default kernel" with all included drivers compiled as modules and replace that once or twice a year.
But apparently they do a lot of other kernel patches for RouterOS and it is a lot of work to re-do those every time. It took like 10 years between v6 and v7 to change kernel version once.
I do not know if it is much easier now, and how often they are going to do it now. Apparently the current kernel is from (just) before the i225-V support, and now the users of that card are out of luck.
It could 10 years again before a newer kernel is used, or this time it could be a little sooner. We don't know.
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:39 pm

One of the major advantages of Linux is the modularity but that's also the biggest challenge as you need to customize the whole configuration to meet specific requisites thus there is not really a general "standard kernel" (but I gather you meant a "MT standard" kernel).

There are also both static and dynamic loadable device drivers which may or may not conflict depending on certain circumstances. Also, depending on the driver type the api may differ between kernel versions and new/changed features incorporated.

And just because a device driver is available it doesn't mean it's painless to incorporate it into the kernel since there are usually a lot of different factors to consider.

All this is a hole friking lot of work so besides getting all this to work just on the current MT hardware it would be a nightmare to also be forced supporting a general "Linux Appliance".

That said, IMHO there is no point to argue about a regular Linux build now when CHR is available, is it?
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:46 pm

Please don't rehash descriptions of the situation 20-25 years ago!
Today with PCIe cards, those conflicts do no longer occur. You can compile a kernel with all drivers compiled as modules, and it just works.
That is what distributors like Debian, RedHat etc do. You install the system, it detects the hardware by PCI ID and loads the correct drivers. No problem.
What makes it difficult to support "all hardware" that each card is supported only from some specific X.Y.Z kernel version onwards, and at the moment you freeze on a kernel version you also freeze the hardware support. Backporting all newer drivers for newer hardware, THAT would consume a lot of resources and would be hard to do. We have seen it happen in RouterOS v6 but it became harder and harder the further the kernel became out of date.
Maybe this time the request is implemented and the support appears in some future RouterOS v7 x86 version, who knows.
(probably at this time it is still "easy to do")
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:52 pm

I do remember the old times when it sometimes was a pain in the butt to get things to work. However, I wasn't referring to the old irq conflicts and like but more of colliding kernel resources like managing ring buffers etc. It's still occurs, especially with cheap "no-name" brands.

And for the rest, I agree, thus why waste unnecessary time and valueble resources on something you can avoid through virtualization which was my main point.
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:32 pm

@Larsa: I don't understand why you seem to be against it. There are now several people just in this thread wanting Mikrotik to support the i225-v directly. Also to me it still seems that Mikrotik are actively developing the x86 version, just see latest stable release with support for new NICs, fixes, etc... We are just asking Mikrotik to support the i225-v directly, don't put more into it than that.

I'm not against anything but maybe we just talk past each other.

What I'm trying to say is that if you need to support "bare metal" installation for a ROS Appliance it's like any regular installation of Windows or Linux direkt on hardware. It means a huge undertaking to constantly sort out what public available hardware to support and commit to long time maintenance of related device drivers which is unrealistic for a company like MT.

However If you instead virtualise it all, you put the entire responsibility on the hardware manufacturers for operation and maintenance of device drivers. Also, nowadays the virtualisation has become so effective the difference in speed for I/O barely is measurable compared to a regular installation.

Bottom line, make use of CHR since it makes all much easer, both for the end user and MT as a developer. And you also get full support for I225V.
I disagree in some aspects:

despite the fact that virtualization has improved a lot year after year, virtualization overhead is real, and because of that hardware offload, hardware support, are key, specially when the virtual machine is a router passing many packets per second from and towards external hardware NIC at several gigabits per second, because of this, industry are investing heavily in network virtualization with smart-nics, DPUS and so on

is a good thing virtualize to avoid the need for the virtual machine supporting all possible variants of the underlying hardware that's ok, but when the virtual machine is a router it is favorable to improve networking performance supporting hardware nic directly

now some context
why now we are suggesting to include this drivers?
because of this:
celeron-4_nic-2_5g_small.jpg
there is a whole recent generation of cheap, small appliances based on intel x86 modern celeron cpu's at 2ghz including 4x 2.5g-intel nic, small footprint and low power draw (~25watt) and the flexibility of a x86 appliance to expand peripherals and take advantage of docker for example

sometimes when people talk about virtualization only think in big servers with many cores and several hundreds if not thousands or watts of power draw, that kind of servers have many cpu resources to spend on network virtualization, networking overhead on a hypervisor is not negligible, they are just throwing hardware and resources to the problem

this celeron cpus are powerful enough (2ghz in 4 cores with out-of-order execution) to be a very capable router but not so much to be tasked with virtualization overhead when passing many packets per second

i think is a great moment for MikroTik to take advantage of this appliances to sell CHR licenses and increase their market share

and of course provide us another option to choose when deploying MikroTik to route the world
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:46 pm

On the other hand, it is a bit of a waste to use such a nice box to only run RouterOS.
Ok, there now is appearing virtualization inside RouterOS so over time this problem would disappear, but when I had such a box today I would like to run a "normal" Linux alongside RouterOS so I could run a webserver, a "serious" DNS server/resolver, a PABX, etc.
So virtualization is not so bad.
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Fri Jun 17, 2022 7:42 pm

@Chechito, if you have a look at the kernel source code for virtualization you will notice there is barely any overhead at all when it comes to dma xfers from the nic to the guest os thus the cpu load is hardly noticeable. And if using hardware offloading that most modern nic chips are equipped with nowadays you won't be able to measure any overhead at all.

A 1Gbps NIC which transfers 0.125 Gbyte/s on the bus is close to nothing compared to the old PCIe 3 which supplies 1 gigabyte per lane for an overall rate of up to 32 GB/s total. The current PCIe 4 doubles the throughput per lane up to 64 GB/s or apros 512 Gigabit/s.

What might (possible) be noticed is the processing of large amounts of firewall rules but today's x86-64 is considerably more powerful than the small plugs that are in the MT hardware.

As @pe1chl stated, those boxes are so powerful you'll probably be able to run Linux, Windows and Ros simultaneously without any problems. If you utilize virtualization you will be able to take advantage of the standard drivers in the underlying os and then there is no need to make any tailor-made ones to make it work.

Btw, why not create you own MT appliance? 😇
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:43 pm

in this test they comment the importance of pass-trough and drivers

https://stubarea51.net/2021/12/13/mikro ... g-barrier/
Pick your NIC’s
Choosing the right NIC is essential for your Mikrotik RouterOS CHR. We went through a lot of different options but one really stuck out. That is Intel X520 dual 10Gbps SFP+ card. This is PCIe 2.0 x8 card.

Reason why we went with Intel X520 is that first we have a lot of them in our lab, second, they are widely available and affordable. This card has been supported for a long time on Mikrotik and has the most important drivers, that allow pass-through from the hypervisor directly to the OS.

We installed six of them in our chosen box (fixed form factor server), populating Slot 1,2,3,4,5,6 respectively. This setup will give as 120Gbps of potential throughput and its perfect for what we trying to accomplish which is to break 100Gbps barrier with our Mikrotik CHR router.
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:36 pm

Well, what can I say!? It's just only 100 Gbps using PCIe 2 cards so I don't see why passthrough whould be important... 😁

Joking apart, nowadays most modern NIC's implements passthrough and high end ones SR-IOV which btw isn't the same thing: "An In-depth Look at SR-IOV NIC Passthrough"
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:21 am

i225 does not support sr-iov
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:34 am

Is there any progress oir test showing support for i225?

How about the newer one i226?
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:24 pm

Is there any progress oir test showing support for i225?

How about the newer one i226?
+1
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Tue Oct 04, 2022 11:52 am

Is there any progress oir test showing support for i225?

How about the newer one i226?
I found another mini PC with 6 2.5G NIC and Celeron J6412 CPU
If i225 or i226 is supported, it would be very good
 
pe1chl
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:02 pm

i225 could be expected as it is supported in the 5.6.3 kernel that RouterOS v7 uses, but i226 is supported in kernel 5.15 so likely won't happen soon...
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:07 am

did you try?

or have tested it out
 
pe1chl
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:29 pm

No, I looked up which Linux kernel versions support the i225-V and i226-V and then compared that to the Linux kernel version in RouterOS v7.
When a kernel supports it, it largely is (or should be) a matter of enabling the driver in the configuration for kernel/module compilation.
When not, there would be backporting effort which potentially can be a lot of work or nearly impossible, depending on the features used by the driver and provided by the kernel.
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Sun Oct 30, 2022 3:28 am

keep asking Mikrotik to include the support
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Sun Oct 30, 2022 6:09 pm

+1 for i225-V and i226-V drivers.
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:30 pm

+1 for i225
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Mon Dec 12, 2022 12:08 pm

Looks like MikroTik has added support on i225-v on RouterOS v7.7 :D (still on testing channel)
i225-v.png
i225-v-link.png
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:33 am

I have tried the latest v7.7 in my J4125 and 6 i225-V NIC.

Routeros came up and all interfaces should support to 2.5G. However, when I move back the configure from my other x86 routeros. Without WAN connection, it seems ok. But once I plugged in WAN, it had random reboot due to kernel panic.

A support ticket [SUP-104401] was raised.
 
pe1chl
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:52 am

What do you mean with "when I move back the configure from my other x86 routeros"? You restored a .backup file??
Do not do that! Backup files are only for the same version and the same hardware.
The only way to transport configuration information between devices is using /export.
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Thu Jan 26, 2023 2:19 am

What do you mean with "when I move back the configure from my other x86 routeros"? You restored a .backup file??
Do not do that! Backup files are only for the same version and the same hardware.
The only way to transport configuration information between devices is using /export.
Thanks for the advice.
For x86, I can do so by importing the config file back.

The issue in this case was due to insufficient support in the v7.7. It is confirmed the random reboot issue has been fixed in the v7.8 beta 2.
I am now using i225-V without any problem
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Sat Aug 05, 2023 1:47 pm

Any updates on testing v7.8 or up to i225-v? Any issues or bugs? I'm about to but that said mini pc. Thanks.
 
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Re: Add Intel i225-V NIC support?

Thu Jan 25, 2024 6:10 am

What do you mean with "when I move back the configure from my other x86 routeros"? You restored a .backup file??
Do not do that! Backup files are only for the same version and the same hardware.
The only way to transport configuration information between devices is using /export.
Thanks for the advice.
For x86, I can do so by importing the config file back.

The issue in this case was due to insufficient support in the v7.7. It is confirmed the random reboot issue has been fixed in the v7.8 beta 2.
I am now using i225-V without any problem
Dear cklee234!

I would like to buy i225 card to my PC. I run RouterOS x86 on the PC. Can you confirm that, the i225 card is works fine under RouterOS x86? In nativ mode, not with CHR or any virtual solution.

Thank you

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