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alpinum1030
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Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:35 am

Hi Everyone,

I am encountering an issue, that wireless devices appear to only get one Tx stream on a RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac running Firmware 6.48.5.

I recently performed a few throughput tests using iperf3 (client<->cAP ac<->iperf3-server) and was surprised, that I could only achieve
  • Rx over 2 minutes: 310-320 Mbits/sec
  • Tx over 2 minutes: 40-50 Mbits/sec

After various tests (including the cable connecting between switch and router (which is fine with 920+ Mbits/sec)) I found, that the cAP ac uses a
  • Rx Rate of 866.6Mbps-80MHz/2S/SGI
(device approx. 3m away and in sight), but only one stream in the other direction:
  • Tx Rate 433.3Mbps-80MHz/1S/SGI.

This behavior occurs both for
  • Intel Dual Band-Wireless-AC 8265 (2x2) (Q1/16)
  • Intel Wi-Fi 6 AX2/01 (2x2) (Q2/19)
wireless adapters.


However, when connected to a different 802.11ac access point (Qualcomm Atheros QCA9880) a reasonable net throughput (Rx over 2 minutes: 380-390 Mbits/sec, Tx over 2 minutes: 450-460 Mbits/sec) in both (!) directions can be achieved.

Also: this behavior can be observed in stand-alone (testing for me) and CAPsMAN-/controller-based (my default) mode.

Any ideas what the reason is?
Is this a configuration or a hardware (access point) issue?

If you need further information, please let me know.

If there is a solution mentioned in another thread, please post the link, I obviously didn't find it.
viewtopic.php?t=141569 appears to address the same issue, but a solution is not provided.

Thank you very much!
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Sun Nov 21, 2021 4:01 pm

I updates to 6.49.1 (stable) today. Unfortunately the same behavior occurs.
Any ideas?
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:28 am

I've noticed this too. But I do occasionally get 2 streams. Maybe it's noise and the mikrotik wi-fi struggles?
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:00 pm

I don't think noise is an issue, as there is no other network on the same (5GHz-)channel (not even an overlap) and as I disabled the wifi connection on all devices (except the one used for the test).
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:34 am

For further tests I ordered a TP Link Archer T3U Plus USB WLAN Stick to rule out an issue with Intel WLAN adapters.

The result remains the same. According to column "Tx Rate" only one stream is used.
It displays for example
  • 325Mbps-80MHz/1S/SGI
    292.5Mbps-80MHz/1S/SGI
    263.2Mbps-80MHz/1S
but never 2S (two streams).
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Wed Apr 13, 2022 9:41 pm

Today I updated to 7.2.1 (stable).

Test setup:
  • performed another reboot after boot immediately after update to 7.2.1
  • no other devices connected/registered except the one device (Intel Dual Band-Wireless-AC 8265 (2x2) (Q1/16)) to perform the test
  • distance between cAP ac and device approx 5ft/~1,5-1,6m with direct line of sight
  • no other networks nearby, I am using channel 58, "nearest" other network uses channel 42

Using this setup the following information is displayed most of the time:
  • Tx Rate: 195Mbps-80MHz/1S/SGI
  • Rx Rate: 866.6Mbps-80MHz/2S/SGI
  • Tx Rate Set: OFDM:6-54 BW:1x-4x SGI:1x-4x HT:0-15 VHTMCS:SS1=0-9,SS2=0-9
Throughput tests show corresponding results: device to cAP ac above 400 MBit/s, cAP ac to device always under 200 MBit/s, most of the time even lower than 100 MBit/s


Summary: same result, great performance (> 400 MBit/s) when sending data from the device to the cAP ac, poor performance when downloading data (cAP ac to device).

Another observation: when I move futher away and other devices are connected, too, the Tx Rate changes to for example 390Mbps-80MHz/2S/SGI. However, for Tx (cAP ac to device) 866.6Mbps-80MHz/2S or anything near that is never achieved.

Any ideas how to achieve acceptable data rates/throughput for Tx?
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:18 am

I did two more tests using RouterOS 7.2.1:
  • using Intel Wi-Fi 6 AX201 (2x2) (Q2/19)
  • using Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 (802.11 a/b/g/n)

Note: these tests were performed in a non-optimal environment with approx. 3m-4m distance to the access point and other devices connected.

The test with the AX201 shows the usual behavior:
  • Rx: 320-390 MBit/s with two streams
  • Tx: 90-190 MBit/s with only one stream
(really? 90 MBit/s?)

The results with the "old" Intel 6300 n-only card were very interesting:
Both Rx and Tx used two streams continuously and "max-ed out" what n-wifi offers, RouterOS continuously showed 300 MBit/s or values near that in the Registration Table for the device. The actual usable throughput correlated to that.

As I have not mentioned it: the tests were performed using iperf3 with 10 threads over three minutes. iperf3 runs on my router which is directly connected to the access point. The iperf3-client runs on the device (various laptops) that I use for the test.


Could there possibly be an 802.11ac issue with the cAP ac?
Am I really the only one observing this behavior?
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:26 am

I'm happy to help stimulating replies from other users... 8)
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Fri Apr 29, 2022 1:21 am

Any ideas how to achieve acceptable data rates/throughput for Tx?

Try the solution mentioned here and see if that helps: viewtopic.php?p=842954&hilit=smps#p842954
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Fri Apr 29, 2022 1:26 am

verify windows power settings wireless adapter set to max performance and check the setting on drivers


https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en ... ducts.html
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Fri Apr 29, 2022 1:50 am

try this nic config
config-nic-intel-wifi.png
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Sun May 01, 2022 2:21 pm

Thank you very much for the suggestions and links.
Unfortunately, this did not help ...

try this nic config
config-nic-intel-wifi.png
Thank you for posting your configuration.
My configuration looks similar.
The only differences (besides adapter specific availability of some properties):
  • Mixed Mode Protection - My setting is "RTS/CTS Enabled", I didn't change it, since I am not using 802.11b oder 802.11g in the 2.4 GHz band.
  • Preferred Band - I kept "No Preference" as the network uses 5 GHz only
  • Roaming Aggressiveness - Kept "Medium" as roaming is not applicable with only one access point
  • Throughput booster - According to Intel's documentation this only effects the upload from the device to the access point. That was never an issue.
However, I did change the "MIMO Power Save Mode" from "Auto SMPS" to "No SMPS".

Good news: when the connection is idle (!) Tx Rate 520Mbps-80MHz/2S/SGI and Rx Rate 866.6Mbps-80MHz/2S/SGI are displayed. Appearently the "MIMO Power Save Mode" affects the usage of the antennas.

Bad news: When I start the throughput test the displayed data rates massively drop, e.g. to values
  • Rx 40.5Mbps-40MHz/1S
  • Tx 234Mbps-80MHz/2S
resulting in a net throughput as low as
  • Rx 31 MBit/s
  • Tx 103 MBit/s
Therefore I changed the setting back to "Auto SMPS".


In addition I did tried the same again using a TP Link Archer T3U Plus USB WLAN Stick as I have not re-tested this device with RouterOS 7.2.1.
  • Rx is ok as usual: most of the time 780Mbps-80MHz/2S/SGI (sometimes even 866.6Mbps-80MHz/2S/SGI), resulting in 304 MBit/s.
  • Tx still uses one stream only: most of the time 325Mbps-80MHz/1S/SGI resulting in 183 MBit/s.


Note: Tests were performed after a restart of the device (laptop) and the cAP ac, no other devices connected to the access point, approx. 2m distance to the access point with direct line of sight. No other SSIDs on the same channel.
Note: Throughput tests were performed using iperf3 over 60 seconds with 10 threads parallel. iperf3 runs on my router which is directly connected to the access point. The iperf3-client runs on the device (laptop).


I still believe (but do not know), that there is some issue (eventually only a configuration) with the cAP ac, as
  • using a different access point (Qualcomm Atheros QCA9880, see my post Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:35 pm) the problems mentioned do not occur
  • the issue is the same with three different network adapters (Intel 8265, Intel AX201, TP Link T3U Plus)

I appreciate other suggestions ... Thank you!
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Sun May 01, 2022 8:32 pm

maybe try changing ap and / or laptop orientation, maybe verify internal connection of antennas on laptop
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Sat May 07, 2022 12:54 pm

I really doubt that antenna orientation, access point orientation, or even antenna cable connections are possible causes, as
  • in each test the placement of the devices was different
  • the same issue occurs on two laptops (#1: internal Intel AX201, #2: a. internal Intel 8265 b. TP Link T3U Plus)
  • the problem does not occur when using a different access point
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Sat May 07, 2022 9:47 pm

show the settings CAPac
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Sun May 08, 2022 8:07 pm

/caps-man> export

/caps-man channel
add band=2ghz-b/g/n control-channel-width=20mhz frequency=2437 name=channel6
add band=5ghz-a/n/ac control-channel-width=20mhz frequency=5260,5280,5300,5320 name=channels-5-non-overlapping-52-64

/caps-man datapath
add local-forwarding=yes name=datapath-guest vlan-id=31 vlan-mode=use-tag
add local-forwarding=yes name=datapath-work vlan-id=34 vlan-mode=use-tag
add local-forwarding=yes name=datapath-iot vlan-id=35 vlan-mode=use-tag
add bridge=bridgeLocal local-forwarding=yes name=datapath-lan

/caps-man security
add authentication-types=wpa2-psk encryption=aes-ccm name=lan
add authentication-types=wpa2-psk encryption=aes-ccm name=guest
add authentication-types=wpa2-psk encryption=aes-ccm name=work
add authentication-types=wpa2-psk encryption=aes-ccm name=iot

/caps-man configuration
add channel=channels-5-non-overlapping-52-64 datapath=datapath-lan mode=ap name=lan-5Ghz security=lan ssid=******X2
add channel=channel6 datapath=datapath-lan installation=any mode=ap name=lan-2.4GHz security=lan ssid=******24
add datapath=datapath-guest datapath.local-forwarding=yes installation=any name=guest security=guest ssid=******d2
add datapath=datapath-work datapath.local-forwarding=yes installation=any name=work security=work ssid******in
add datapath=datapath-iot datapath.local-forwarding=yes installation=any name=iot security=iot ssid=******le

/caps-man manager
set enabled=yes

/caps-man provisioning
add action=create-dynamic-enabled hw-supported-modes=ac,an,a master-configuration=lan-5Ghz slave-configurations=guest,work
add action=create-dynamic-enabled hw-supported-modes=b,g,gn master-configuration=lan-2.4GHz slave-configurations=iot
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Sun May 08, 2022 9:51 pm

After reading all the interesting posts here ... just thinking ...

- "SMPS is a problem if enabled (reduces the max # receive antenna to just 1 on the client)
- "line of sight" and close proximity are not the good conditions for spatial streams (MIMO) operation. Multipath is a must. See https://www.ieee.li/pdf/viewgraphs/intr ... s_mimo.pdf
(Having the client In the backplane direction of the cAP, the spreading of the antenna might be sub-optimal, (seen in a small angle))
- if RTS/CTS is needed for "auto SMPS" then it should be enabled on the AP.
Another observation: when I move futher away and other devices are connected, too, the Tx Rate changes to for example 390Mbps-80MHz/2S/SGI. However, for Tx (cAP ac to device) 866.6Mbps-80MHz/2S or anything near that is never achieved.
- reduced speed is a normal reaction of the wifi algoritms if packets don't make it at the higher speeds. (7 are the HW retries without consequences, then the interface rate is stepped down for every failure until it works. So hey, with "390Mbps-80MHz/2S/SGI", 2S does work, but the MCS encoding had to be strongly reduced to MCS04 or 16-QAM for the noise or interference.
-
52-64 are 5 GHz non-overlapping channels.
What is meant here? 5260Ceee, 5280eCee, 5300eeCe , and 5320eeeC use one and the same 80 MHz channel. If 5300Ceee would have been selected, then there would be serieus interference with the previous channels.
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Mon May 09, 2022 10:03 am

/caps-man> export
show these settings CAP ac
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Thu May 26, 2022 5:52 pm

- "SMPS is a problem if enabled (reduces the max # receive antenna to just 1 on the client)
This is my understanding, too.
However, I changed the settings back as - possibly due to a different issue - I could not observe an improvement.
Today I switched to "no SMPS" again, see below.

- "line of sight" and close proximity are not the good conditions for spatial streams (MIMO) operation. Multipath is a must. See https://www.ieee.li/pdf/viewgraphs/intr ... s_mimo.pdf
(Having the client In the backplane direction of the cAP, the spreading of the antenna might be sub-optimal, (seen in a small angle))
Interesting presentation!
Long story short: I would still expect something at least close to 866Mbps (using two streams) if there are no disturbances around.

- if RTS/CTS is needed for "auto SMPS" then it should be enabled on the AP.
Where did you see/read, that RTS/CTs may be needed for "Auto SMPS"?

but the MCS encoding had to be strongly reduced to MCS04 or 16-QAM for the noise or interference.
There is really noting around ... :-S

What is meant here? 5260Ceee, 5280eCee, 5300eeCe , and 5320eeeC use one and the same 80 MHz channel. If 5300Ceee would have been selected, then there would be serieus interference with the previous channels.
I have not explicitly set the Extension Channel.

You are right. For some reason I mixed something up with the non-overlapping 80 MHz channels.
Don't know, what I was thinking. ;-)

I changed the setting to the following:
add band=5ghz-a/n/ac control-channel-width=20mhz frequency=5180 name=channels-5-non-overlapping-36-48
add band=5ghz-a/n/ac control-channel-width=20mhz frequency=5260 name=channels-5-non-overlapping-52-64
add band=5ghz-a/n/ac control-channel-width=20mhz frequency=5500,5580 name=channels-5-non-overlapping-100-128
add band=5ghz-a/n/ac control-channel-width=20mhz frequency=5745,5825 name=channels-5-non-overlapping-149-177
show these settings CAP ac
Left: 2.4 GHz, Right: 5 GHz
Capture.JPG


Today I
  • upgraded from 7.2.1 to 7.2.3
  • changed the channels according to the information above
  • Changed the setting on the client from "Auto SPMS" to "No SPMS"
.
No change, I achieve 210 Mbits/sec for Tx, 344 Mbits/sec for Rx .
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Thu May 26, 2022 6:42 pm

- "line of sight" and close proximity are not the good conditions for spatial streams (MIMO) operation. Multipath is a must.

Not exactly true.

For MIMO there must be some diversity between individual streams in order for receiver to distinguish between individual streams. In our physical universe, there are two ways of achieving needed diversity:

  1. the most straight forward way is polarization diversity. There are only two orthogonal polarization planes so it's only good for 2x2. It's achieved by having a pair of antennae set at right angle between them, professional antennae actually have the two one over another like a cross. Multipath makes things worse in this case, polarity generally changes at every reflection. So for clear LOS cases, MIMO 2x2 with polarization diversity should work close to ideally. Ideal orientation of receiving antennae helps, so one xan try to rotate antennae around the direction pointing at the transmitter to match Rx polarization planes with Tx polarization planes as good as possible.

  2. spatial diversity, which means that antennae are set certain distance apart. It works fairly for higher orders of MIMO, but to do it properly, distance between any pair of Tx or Rx antennae has to be at least few wavelengths. For transmitters operating at 2.4 GHz, wavelength is around 12 cm, so antennae should be separated at least 30-50 cm apart. Which obviously doesn't happen with any consumer electronic device (except for carefully engineered laptops). Wifi at 5GHz is a bit better with this regard, wavelength is approx 2.2 to 2.5 times shorter which makes construction of better antenna much easier. BTW, mobile networks sometimes use spatial diversity even on low bands ... with frequencies as low as 700MHz this means distance between antenna of at least 3 meters ... but when looking up at tower keep in mind that panel antennae used for that frequency are 2.5m to 3m high.
    Now, with spatial diversity multipath can help because (multiple) reflections can make actual distance difference between Tx antennae appear larger at receiver ... but can make it vanish as well. So the effect can vary a lot even with small receiver movements. OTOH multipath can cause receiver to sense increased interference if it can't cope with multipath properly (it's not exactly trivial and I can imagine low cost receivers lacking DSP processing power and/or shitty DSP software burp in some cases) and in that case LOS SISO might give better results.

The receiver can have issues in both cases of diversity, also in case of polarization diversity if polarization planes of Tx and Rx antennae are rotated at 45°. And note that transmitter doesn't have any issues in such cases ... so large difference in performance in both directions might indicate lower quality of receiver (the direction with lower throughput) if the rest of processing doesn't make bottlenecks (e.g. CPU on either transmitting or receiving device, my experience is that transmitting is harder on CPU than receiving).
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Thu May 26, 2022 8:17 pm

I will give my opinion.
I have not yet met any device that can automatically select frequencies correctly, not to mention the rest of the radio parameters.
I would suggest these settings
1) Give up support for last millennium's 802.11a and 802.11b standards. Support for which greatly reduces the useful bandwidth. In 2.4GHz use "n only" in 5GHz use "ac only" or "n/ac ".
2. Abandon HW.Protection Mode set None for hidden node protection. This mode also significantly reduces useful bandwidth. At current transmission speeds, it does more harm than good.
3. HT Guard Interval instead of any, set long. This significantly improves stability. In the table of wireless registrations will no longer beautiful Rate 866.6Mbps-80MHz/2S/SGI instead it will be more stable Rate 780Mbps-80MHz/2S
4. In order to assign CAP radio settings data manually set Action create-enabled instead of crete-dynamic-enabled
5. To scan the air and manually assign the frequencies of the least loaded channels from the non-intersecting channels. Because if the settings specify 5745, 5825, then all points will work on the frequency 5745, to the second almost never go. Because with normal settings, the frequency is selected only once when switching on.
PS You have not shown what radio settings take CAP highlighted in red
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Fri May 27, 2022 1:31 am

i think will be nice to see an export of that cAP ac radios configuration
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Fri May 27, 2022 4:34 am

Try netbooting the device with OpenWrt and seeing if the same behavior occurs there. This would rule out hardware issues.
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Sun May 29, 2022 11:47 pm

Many thanks MKX for the clarification. I found polarization diversity commonly in LTE antenna descriptions, those antenna are almost always crossed (45-135° angle) , but I missed those descriptions in wifi setups. except in directional devices for PtP or PtMP connections. I will have to do some extra reading on this, to understand what to do with omnidirectional antenna orientation. So still puzzled with either both antenna parallel or perpendicular on a device like RB2011 , or more general on those spider like devices with many antenna. So far I considered only the donut shape of the signal transmitted and receive sensitivity gain.
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Mon May 30, 2022 8:37 am

... what to do with omnidirectional antenna orientation.
The most usual dipole antennae (such as used as external "stick" antennae on most consumer APs) are polarized in the direction of the dipole ... so when antenna is mounted in vertical orientation this makes vertically polarized antenna. Which means that spreading vertical alignment of attached antennae does help with MIMO performance on such devices. Most of devices with internal antennae (such as vast majority of MT APs) usually have individual antennae mounted in angled positions already.

Example is placement of 2.4GHz antennae in Audience:

Image

Both antennae are box-shaped metal parts, one is in lover left part of board in vertical orientation and the other one is in upper-centre right part (under the trapezoid metallic structure carrying the label sticker, atop of Mikrotik board label).

Image doesn't show how exactly are implemented antennae for 5GHz band, it's clear they are spatially distributed (around the base of the cone on top of board), but the right-hand antenna is behind the holding arm so we can't see how it's shaped. However, the left-hand antenna does have +45° angle and discolouring on the left part of PCB holding antenna might indicate that a -45° antenna might be produced on similar PCB patch. Which indicates use of polarization diversity on these antennae as well.
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Sun Jun 05, 2022 2:41 pm

1) Give up support for last millennium's 802.11a and 802.11b standards. Support for which greatly reduces the useful bandwidth. In 2.4GHz use "n only" in 5GHz use "ac only" or "n/ac ".
I changed the setting from 5ghz-a/n/ac to 5ghz-n/ac .
2. Abandon HW.Protection Mode set None for hidden node protection. This mode also significantly reduces useful bandwidth. At current transmission speeds, it does more harm than good.
Changed from "not set" to None.
3. HT Guard Interval instead of any, set long. This significantly improves stability. In the table of wireless registrations will no longer beautiful Rate 866.6Mbps-80MHz/2S/SGI instead it will be more stable Rate 780Mbps-80MHz/2S
Changed from "not set" to long.
4. In order to assign CAP radio settings data manually set Action create-enabled instead of crete-dynamic-enabled
Didn't change this, as I prefer the automatic setting.

5. To scan the air and manually assign the frequencies of the least loaded channels from the non-intersecting channels. Because if the settings specify 5745, 5825, then all points will work on the frequency 5745, to the second almost never go. Because with normal settings, the frequency is selected only once when switching on.
Sorry, didn't understand what you meant by number 5.



Laptop -> cap ac (Rx) : two streams, average 309 MBits/s ...fine as usual
cap ac (Tx) -> Laptop : one stream, average 81 MBits/s ... same problem

Therefore I reverted the changes for now.



i think will be nice to see an export of that cAP ac radios configuration
Would you be so kind and give me the terminal command. With that I can copy and paste specifically what you need.

Try netbooting the device with OpenWrt and seeing if the same behavior occurs there. This would rule out hardware issues.
Is there a manual, tutorial, ... somewhere? If so, would you be so kind and provide a link to me.
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:39 am

1) Give up support for last millennium's 802.11a and 802.11b standards. Support for which greatly reduces the useful bandwidth. In 2.4GHz use "n only" in 5GHz use "ac only" or "n/ac ".
I changed the setting from 5ghz-a/n/ac to 5ghz-n/ac .
2. Abandon HW.Protection Mode set None for hidden node protection. This mode also significantly reduces useful bandwidth. At current transmission speeds, it does more harm than good.
Changed from "not set" to None.
3. HT Guard Interval instead of any, set long. This significantly improves stability. In the table of wireless registrations will no longer beautiful Rate 866.6Mbps-80MHz/2S/SGI instead it will be more stable Rate 780Mbps-80MHz/2S
Changed from "not set" to long.
4. In order to assign CAP radio settings data manually set Action create-enabled instead of crete-dynamic-enabled
Didn't change this, as I prefer the automatic setting.

5. To scan the air and manually assign the frequencies of the least loaded channels from the non-intersecting channels. Because if the settings specify 5745, 5825, then all points will work on the frequency 5745, to the second almost never go. Because with normal settings, the frequency is selected only once when switching on.
Sorry, didn't understand what you meant by number 5.



Laptop -> cap ac (Rx) : two streams, average 309 MBits/s ...fine as usual
cap ac (Tx) -> Laptop : one stream, average 81 MBits/s ... same problem

Therefore I reverted the changes for now.



i think will be nice to see an export of that cAP ac radios configuration
Would you be so kind and give me the terminal command. With that I can copy and paste specifically what you need.

Try netbooting the device with OpenWrt and seeing if the same behavior occurs there. This would rule out hardware issues.
Is there a manual, tutorial, ... somewhere? If so, would you be so kind and provide a link to me.
can you post your wireless config ? (export)
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Mon Jun 13, 2022 8:02 pm

[admin@MikroTik-cap-ac-01] /caps-man> export

/caps-man channel

add band=2ghz-b/g/n control-channel-width=20mhz frequency=2437 name=channel6
add band=5ghz-a/n/ac control-channel-width=20mhz frequency=5260 name=channels-5-non-overlapping-52-64

/caps-man datapath
add local-forwarding=yes name=datapath-WifiB vWifiA-id=31 vWifiA-mode=use-tag
add local-forwarding=yes name=datapath-WifiC vWifiA-id=34 vWifiA-mode=use-tag
add local-forwarding=yes name=datapath-WifiD vWifiA-id=35 vWifiA-mode=use-tag

/caps-man security
add authentication-types=wpa2-psk encryption=aes-ccm name=WifiA
add authentication-types=wpa2-psk encryption=aes-ccm name=WifiB
add authentication-types=wpa2-psk encryption=aes-ccm name=WifiC
add authentication-types=wpa2-psk encryption=aes-ccm name=WifiD

/caps-man configuration
add country=austria datapath=datapath-WifiB datapath.local-forwarding=yes installation=any name=WifiB security=WifiB ssid=WifiB
add country=austria datapath=datapath-WifiC datapath.local-forwarding=yes installation=any name=WifiC security=WifiC ssid=WifiC
add country=austria datapath=datapath-WifiD datapath.local-forwarding=yes installation=any name=WifiD security=WifiD ssid=WifiD

/caps-man configuration
add channel=channels-5-non-overlapping-52-64 datapath=datapath-WifiA mode=ap name=WifiA-5Ghz security=WifiA ssid=WifiA
add channel=channel6 country=austria datapath=datapath-WifiA installation=any mode=ap name=WifiA-2.4GHz security=WifiA ssid=WifiA2

/caps-man datapath
add bridge=bridgeLocal local-forwarding=yes name=datapath-WifiA

/caps-man interface
add channel.frequency=5260 configuration=WifiA-5Ghz disabled=no l2mtu=1600 mac-address=C4:AD:**:**:**:** master-interface=none name=cap18 radio-mac=C4:AD:**:**:**:** radio-name=C4A******E53
add configuration=WifiB disabled=no l2mtu=1600 mac-address=C6:AD:**:**:**:** master-interface=cap18 name=cap19 radio-mac=00:00:00:00:00:00 radio-name=C6A********3
add configuration=WifiC disabled=no l2mtu=1600 mac-address=C6:AD:**:**:**:** master-interface=cap18 name=cap20 radio-mac=00:00:00:00:00:00 radio-name=C6A********4

/caps-man manager
set enabled=yes

/caps-man provisioning
add action=create-dynamic-enabled hw-supported-modes=ac,an,a master-configuration=WifiA-5Ghz slave-configurations=WifiB,WifiC
add action=create-dynamic-enabled hw-supported-modes=b,g,gn master-configuration=WifiA-2.4GHz slave-configurations=WifiD





[admin@MikroTik-cap-ac-01] /interface/wireless> export

/interface wireless
# managed by CAPsMAN
# channel: 2437/20-Ce/gn(18dBm), SSID: *******24, local forwarding
set [ find default-name=wlan1 ] disabled=no ssid=MikroTik

/interface wireless security-profiles
set [ find default=yes ] supplicant-identity=MikroTik
add authentication-types=wpa2-psk eap-methods="" mode=dynamic-keys name=lan supplicant-identity=""

/interface wireless
# managed by CAPsMAN
# channel: 5260/20-Ceee/ac/DP(79dBm), SSID: *******2, local forwarding
set [ find default-name=wlan2 ] antenna-gain=200 band=5ghz-a/n/ac channel-width=20/40/80mhz-Ceee country=austria disabled=no mode=ap-bridge security-profile=lan ssid=*******2 supported-rates-a/g=6Mbps,54Mbps \
    wps-mode=disabled

/interface wireless cap
# 
set bridge=bridgeLocal discovery-interfaces=bridgeLocal enabled=yes interfaces=wlan1,wlan2
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Mon Jun 13, 2022 9:58 pm

[admin@MikroTik-cap-ac-01] /caps-man> export

/caps-man channel

add band=2ghz-b/g/n control-channel-width=20mhz frequency=2437 name=channel6
add band=5ghz-a/n/ac control-channel-width=20mhz frequency=5260 name=channels-5-non-overlapping-52-64

/caps-man datapath
add local-forwarding=yes name=datapath-WifiB vWifiA-id=31 vWifiA-mode=use-tag
add local-forwarding=yes name=datapath-WifiC vWifiA-id=34 vWifiA-mode=use-tag
add local-forwarding=yes name=datapath-WifiD vWifiA-id=35 vWifiA-mode=use-tag

/caps-man security
add authentication-types=wpa2-psk encryption=aes-ccm name=WifiA
add authentication-types=wpa2-psk encryption=aes-ccm name=WifiB
add authentication-types=wpa2-psk encryption=aes-ccm name=WifiC
add authentication-types=wpa2-psk encryption=aes-ccm name=WifiD

/caps-man configuration
add country=austria datapath=datapath-WifiB datapath.local-forwarding=yes installation=any name=WifiB security=WifiB ssid=WifiB
add country=austria datapath=datapath-WifiC datapath.local-forwarding=yes installation=any name=WifiC security=WifiC ssid=WifiC
add country=austria datapath=datapath-WifiD datapath.local-forwarding=yes installation=any name=WifiD security=WifiD ssid=WifiD

/caps-man configuration
add channel=channels-5-non-overlapping-52-64 datapath=datapath-WifiA mode=ap name=WifiA-5Ghz security=WifiA ssid=WifiA
add channel=channel6 country=austria datapath=datapath-WifiA installation=any mode=ap name=WifiA-2.4GHz security=WifiA ssid=WifiA2

/caps-man datapath
add bridge=bridgeLocal local-forwarding=yes name=datapath-WifiA

/caps-man interface
add channel.frequency=5260 configuration=WifiA-5Ghz disabled=no l2mtu=1600 mac-address=C4:AD:**:**:**:** master-interface=none name=cap18 radio-mac=C4:AD:**:**:**:** radio-name=C4A******E53
add configuration=WifiB disabled=no l2mtu=1600 mac-address=C6:AD:**:**:**:** master-interface=cap18 name=cap19 radio-mac=00:00:00:00:00:00 radio-name=C6A********3
add configuration=WifiC disabled=no l2mtu=1600 mac-address=C6:AD:**:**:**:** master-interface=cap18 name=cap20 radio-mac=00:00:00:00:00:00 radio-name=C6A********4

/caps-man manager
set enabled=yes

/caps-man provisioning
add action=create-dynamic-enabled hw-supported-modes=ac,an,a master-configuration=WifiA-5Ghz slave-configurations=WifiB,WifiC
add action=create-dynamic-enabled hw-supported-modes=b,g,gn master-configuration=WifiA-2.4GHz slave-configurations=WifiD





[admin@MikroTik-cap-ac-01] /interface/wireless> export

/interface wireless
# managed by CAPsMAN
# channel: 2437/20-Ce/gn(18dBm), SSID: *******24, local forwarding
set [ find default-name=wlan1 ] disabled=no ssid=MikroTik

/interface wireless security-profiles
set [ find default=yes ] supplicant-identity=MikroTik
add authentication-types=wpa2-psk eap-methods="" mode=dynamic-keys name=lan supplicant-identity=""

/interface wireless
# managed by CAPsMAN
# channel: 5260/20-Ceee/ac/DP(79dBm), SSID: *******2, local forwarding
set [ find default-name=wlan2 ] antenna-gain=200 band=5ghz-a/n/ac channel-width=20/40/80mhz-Ceee country=austria disabled=no mode=ap-bridge security-profile=lan ssid=*******2 supported-rates-a/g=6Mbps,54Mbps \
    wps-mode=disabled

/interface wireless cap
# 
set bridge=bridgeLocal discovery-interfaces=bridgeLocal enabled=yes interfaces=wlan1,wlan2
im not using capsman but i suggest you to try this settings (disabling capsman) on your cap ac 5ghz radio
/interface wireless
set [ find default-name=wlan2 ] country=no_country_set distance=indoors frequency-mode=manual-txpower keepalive-frames=disabled mode=ap-bridge tx-power-mode=all-rates-fixed wireless-protocol=802.11 wmm-support=enabled wps-mode=disabled
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:04 pm

Is there an equivalent for CAPsMAN?

(When I purchased the cAP ac I explicitly chose the cAP ac with the CAPsMAN functionality. Therefore I'd really like it to work using CAPsMAN (=controller mode) and not the standalone mode.)
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:05 am

There must be some sort of incompatibility between Mikrotik and some WiFi cards.
My router: RBD52G-5HacD2Hn
My WiFi card: Intel 8265
My phones work fine with router - both antennas are activated in heavy usage. However Intel 8265 in my laptop only activates one antenna in RX. I thought at first that it is some sort of hardware issue, so I was unplugging and swapping antennas on my laptop. But after making sure that both antennas work correctly and both ports on wifi card work correctly... I was really puzzled. I started browsing all the settings and this way I found MIMO power save mode, disabling which solved the problem. And later I found out that this problem occurs only on battery power.
Intel states that some legacy APs may have compatibility issue with supporting the SMPS mode. Also Intel states that the AP must send request to send (RTS) packet to trigger the client to wake the sleeping radios/antenna before sending MIMO packets. (https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en ... ducts.html). I wonder if someone from Mikrotik could double check if there is no bug in the code. My phones work correctly, so probably not. Maybe it is on the Intel side... But my laptop works fine with TP-Link router on battery and with SMPS on.
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:50 pm

Hey, I stumbled across this issue as well, where capsman controlled ap's never allowed/enabled client connections for more than 1 spatial stream on 5Ghz ac, using 80Mhz band. Resulting in max 433mbit , never reaching potential higher speeds.

I believe this is due to VHT MCS rates vs HT MCS rates. Using the table found at:

https://travelingpacket.com/2019/12/19/ ... wireshark/

I have defined rates now, to be included in my 5Ghz configuration('s). I only setup HT supported rates 8-15 to "force" 2 minimum spatial streams.

I am not allowing VHT MCS at all. Right now I see clients successfully connect upto 867Mbit using 2 Streams.
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Sat Feb 11, 2023 2:12 pm

Hey, I stumbled across this issue as well, where capsman controlled ap's never allowed/enabled client connections for more than 1 spatial stream on 5Ghz ac, using 80Mhz band. Resulting in max 433mbit , never reaching potential higher speeds.

I believe this is due to VHT MCS rates vs HT MCS rates. Using the table found at:

https://travelingpacket.com/2019/12/19/ ... wireshark/

I have defined rates now, to be included in my 5Ghz configuration('s). I only setup HT supported rates 8-15 to "force" 2 minimum spatial streams.

I am not allowing VHT MCS at all. Right now I see clients successfully connect upto 867Mbit using 2 Streams.
I found this thread while looking for an answer why my other devices would sometimes lose connection when another device connected to the Cap AC.
I also tried forcing 2 streams, but then my Chromecast would not connect to the WiFi anymore. Have to look into this a bit further, because there might be some relations with my problem and the speed problem. Perhaps something wrong in the dynamic allocation of rates?
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Sat Feb 11, 2023 5:47 pm

Removing lower rates is considered a tuning option ... BUT ...
Forcing only high rates will cause more disconnects and failures to connect, where lower rates would still have worked
This is the case for
- removing the 6 Mbps basic rate (first connect is always at 6 Mbps , even if set to not supported)
- removing lower supported rates
- removing lower HT MCS rates
- (warning : changing data rates from "default" to "configured" changes the VHT MCS basic rates, and causes problems for some devices (like Raspberry Pi))
- lower VHT MCS rates cannot be removed from the VHT MCS list in 802.11ac (beacon fields do not allow for this data)
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Sat Feb 11, 2023 6:00 pm

I am not allowing VHT MCS at all. Right now I see clients successfully connect upto 867Mbit using 2 Streams.
I only know VHT MCS9, 2 stream, SGI, 80MHz to give 866,7Mbps interface rate.
No HT with 2S can handle this 866 interface rate .See yellow data blocks in https://mcsindex.com/
"VHT MCS 0-9,0-9,0,0" (eg 2 stream) is enabled by default for 802.11ac.

Set to "configured" to see this. But be aware now you have changed the "VHT basic MCS" from "none" to "MCS 0-7" and some devices may now refuse to associate, till reset to "none".
Klembord-2.jpg
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:15 pm

Perhaps the problem with one spatial stream is due to the fact that the default Mikrotik for ac base speeds of VHT work with only one spatial stream. And if there are empty fields in the Capsman settings, then these settings come from somewhere unknown.
This is the default setting
Screenshot_5.jpg
This is how you set it up
Screenshot_8.jpg
PS When I made these settings on my home router, my phone, which has only one spatial stream, stopped connecting to the network.
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Sun Feb 12, 2023 7:44 pm

MT is not giving clear guidance here. (and even Cisco, Meraki, Aruba and others neither)
And one of the bibles is not giving suggestons on this: https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/80 ... /ch03.html
Only, with basic rate set, the connecting client must support all AP basic rates. So maybe you are excluding single stream devices from access to this AP, by defining dual stream in the basic rate.
(The Raspberry Pi 4 already failed with one stream VHT basic rate set in the MT. Logged as: "Does Not Support All Basic Rates")
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:18 pm

I will have to do some extra reading on this, to understand what to do with omnidirectional antenna orientation. So still puzzled with either both antenna parallel or perpendicular on a device like RB2011 , or more general on those spider like devices with many antenna. So far I considered only the donut shape of the signal transmitted and receive sensitivity gain.
I always set 2 antennas 90 degrees apart relative to each other. I have an RB4011 here with 4 but AFAIK only the 1st 2 are being used as I have no other devices with 3 or 4 antennas. In this case 1 and 2 are almost 90 degrees apart.

If you look at an Omnitik and wonder why 2 antennas are so close and parallel, I pulled apart an old Omnitik once that had succumbed to lightning. Both antennas were made of what looked like teflon PCBs. One was an array of vertically stacked dipoles, and the other an array of vertically stacked slot dipoles. From what I understand of antennas, dipoles and slots swap the E and H fields with respect to each other for the same geometry so even though they look parallel they are in effect 90 degrees apart. Quite clever really.
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Sat Feb 18, 2023 12:22 am

Slot antennas? .... so much more to learn (like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iefZnZnh8Wc )... Thanks for the information
 
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Re: Only One Tx Stream (1S) on RBcAPGi-5acD2nD cAP ac

Sat Feb 18, 2023 11:30 am

I settled on a 5Ghz Rates profile that lists HT Supported Rates from 0 - 23 ( i.e. 1 - 3 Spatial Streams ) and have not selected any VHT Basic/Supported rates for this profile, therefore excluding them (i think). I'm not sure if its the implementation of VHT profiles with Mikrotik or if I'm overlooking something, but in this way I achieve 2 Spatial Streams and higher throughput on 5Ghz AC ( up to 867Mbit)

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