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PeterXC
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hAP ax² and hAP ax³ now support the entire 5 GHz range  [SOLVED]

Tue Feb 21, 2023 7:02 pm

Hello,
Following the latest announcement in Newsletter #110, is there an updated guide on how to best set up WifiWave2 to support an extended range in the EU?
So far, the recommended one from Wiki is pretty limited:

/interface wifiwave2 channel
add name=ch-5ghz frequency=5180,5260,5500 width=20/40/80mhz

This config worked so far the best, much better than the default (on v7.7). As I moved to v7.8rc2, I'd like to explore more the extended range.

BR,
Peter
 
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Re: hAP ax² and hAP ax³ now support the entire 5 GHz range

Wed Feb 22, 2023 9:00 pm

Oh yes - I am also interested.
 
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anav
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Re: hAP ax² and hAP ax³ now support the entire 5 GHz range

Wed Feb 22, 2023 9:19 pm

Drowing in lack of guidance for ax3 wifi setup LOL.
I have screwed up every which way............. no progress to date.
 
PeterXC
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Re: hAP ax² and hAP ax³ now support the entire 5 GHz range

Wed Feb 22, 2023 9:47 pm

Drowing in lack of guidance for ax3 wifi setup LOL.
I have screwed up every which way............. no progress to date.

Yeah. It works terribly with default settings on the radio. I think it is the worst-performing AP with default config :lol:
It gets better when you follow the guide: https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/display/ROS/WifiWave2
Still, there is a lot to improve.
 
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Re: hAP ax² and hAP ax³ now support the entire 5 GHz range

Wed Feb 22, 2023 10:49 pm

haha.
A. THERE IS NO GUIDE!!!
B. THEY define parameters.
C. Give some weak examples from terminal window approach, which is totally USELESS as I config wifi from WINBOX primarily ( yeah other parts of the config I do both but not wifi )

I smell a user article if MKX doesnt make one LOL
 
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Re: hAP ax² and hAP ax³ now support the entire 5 GHz range

Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:49 am

I smell a user article if MKX doesnt make one LOL

I'm affraid we'll see another article from @anav's "guides for ROS dummies" series. 1. I don't do articles, 2. I haven't got to the point of installing CAPsMANwave2 and 3. I only got up to ac with my wifiwave2 device (audience).
I'll gladly lean back in my armchair and throw a firecracker or two while @anav does the dirty work :lol:
 
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Re: hAP ax² and hAP ax³ now support the entire 5 GHz range

Thu Feb 23, 2023 8:22 am

haha.
A. THERE IS NO GUIDE!!!
B. THEY define parameters.
C. Give some weak examples from terminal window approach, which is totally USELESS as I config wifi from WINBOX primarily ( yeah other parts of the config I do both but not wifi )

I smell a user article if MKX doesnt make one LOL
MikroTik docs are great in some areas, useless in most areas.

How do you even optimise 2GHz range, let alone 5? On ax2/3? I can barely squeeze shit of out 2.4GHz.
 
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normis
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Re: hAP ax² and hAP ax³ now support the entire 5 GHz range

Thu Feb 23, 2023 8:43 am

It actually works best if left at default settings, there is no need for a guide just to get it working, only for finetuning and custom setups.
What makes you say defaults are no good?
 
PeterXC
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Re: hAP ax² and hAP ax³ now support the entire 5 GHz range

Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:41 am

It actually works best if left at default settings, there is no need for a guide just to get it working, only for finetuning and custom setups.
What makes you say defaults are no good?
Hi!
It is my first Mikrotik. When the package arrived in the morning, I was excited and just wanted to plug it in, so I followed the default approach, filling in WiFi details on the quick set page and modifying the LAN subnet. It worked terribly. My Teams sessions were often disconnected, and my laptop kept switching between WiFi and Cellular backup.
Then I followed Mikrotik's guide and set up WiFi with fixed frequencies. It worked better. Still, my laptop was switching between 2.4/5, and it was slightly disturbing my work.
Setting up an access list to reject my laptop on 2.4 radio helped, and I have a stable link.

In the meantime, my cable company delivered a new cable modem with WiFi6. After a few tests, I was surprised, as the 5GHz radio from this little modem, without any external antennas, was working better than from ax3 :( it also supports 160MHz, setting up the link at 2Gbps speed.

To summarize: from my experience so far, Mikrotik ax3 on default configuration works much worse than Asus RT-AC68U (my old AP), Sagemcom F3896LG-LC (my cable modem) or Ubiquiti AmpliFi Instant AFi-INS, compared to using identical laptops and similar ranges.

Currently, I'm on Mikrotik, and my cable modem is in bridge mode (radio off). I like the UI, terminal, and tons of features. As an engineer with networking experience, it is a dream device.

I hope I can tweak it and reach around 700Mbps on the radio at my desk and a stable link without many disconnections.

I'm now on 7.8rc3, link speed varies between 300-700, and I have some disconnections, with a logged message: @wifi1 rejected, can't find PMKSA :(
I hope it can be improved.
 
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Re: hAP ax² and hAP ax³ now support the entire 5 GHz range

Thu Feb 23, 2023 11:27 am

It actually works best if left at default settings, there is no need for a guide just to get it working, only for finetuning and custom setups.
What makes you say defaults are no good?
Hi!
It is my first Mikrotik. When the package arrived in the morning, I was excited and just wanted to plug it in, so I followed the default approach, filling in WiFi details on the quick set page and modifying the LAN subnet. It worked terribly. My Teams sessions were often disconnected, and my laptop kept switching between WiFi and Cellular backup.
Then I followed Mikrotik's guide and set up WiFi with fixed frequencies. It worked better. Still, my laptop was switching between 2.4/5, and it was slightly disturbing my work.
Setting up an access list to reject my laptop on 2.4 radio helped, and I have a stable link.

In the meantime, my cable company delivered a new cable modem with WiFi6. After a few tests, I was surprised, as the 5GHz radio from this little modem, without any external antennas, was working better than from ax3 :( it also supports 160MHz, setting up the link at 2Gbps speed.

To summarize: from my experience so far, Mikrotik ax3 on default configuration works much worse than Asus RT-AC68U (my old AP), Sagemcom F3896LG-LC (my cable modem) or Ubiquiti AmpliFi Instant AFi-INS, compared to using identical laptops and similar ranges.

Currently, I'm on Mikrotik, and my cable modem is in bridge mode (radio off). I like the UI, terminal, and tons of features. As an engineer with networking experience, it is a dream device.

I hope I can tweak it and reach around 700Mbps on the radio at my desk and a stable link without many disconnections.

I'm now on 7.8rc3, link speed varies between 300-700, and I have some disconnections, with a logged message: @wifi1 rejected, can't find PMKSA :(
I hope it can be improved.
What channel AP chose? You have set country correctly? What it is?
 
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Re: hAP ax² and hAP ax³ now support the entire 5 GHz range

Thu Feb 23, 2023 11:30 am

Yes, like Maigonis says, the only difference between "out of the box" and manual setup is that out of the box you have "AUTO" frequency. The AP scans the Country frequency range and chooses some free frequency. There is no other difference. Maybe a reboot would also force it to choose another frequency, and your manual config is just a coincidence.
 
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Re: hAP ax² and hAP ax³ now support the entire 5 GHz range

Thu Feb 23, 2023 11:47 am

Yes, like Maigonis says, the only difference between "out of the box" and manual setup is that out of the box you have "AUTO" frequency. The AP scans the Country frequency range and chooses some free frequency. There is no other difference. Maybe a reboot would also force it to choose another frequency, and your manual config is just a coincidence.
For example, in Latvia non-DFS channels (36-48) are allowed to work up to 20dbm EIRP, but ch100 can work up to 27dbm EIRP. If you compare axx to AP that use channel whit higher tx gain, or that ignores local regulations and use hi gain anyway, of course you will have lower coverage and throughput issues as modulation, most likely, will be lower.
 
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Re: hAP ax² and hAP ax³ now support the entire 5 GHz range

Thu Feb 23, 2023 1:53 pm

Yes, like Maigonis says, the only difference between "out of the box" and manual setup is that out of the box you have "AUTO" frequency. The AP scans the Country frequency range and chooses some free frequency. There is no other difference. Maybe a reboot would also force it to choose another frequency, and your manual config is just a coincidence.
For example, in Latvia non-DFS channels (36-48) are allowed to work up to 20dbm EIRP, but ch100 can work up to 27dbm EIRP. If you compare axx to AP that use channel whit higher tx gain, or that ignores local regulations and use hi gain anyway, of course you will have lower coverage and throughput issues as modulation, most likely, will be lower.

Yes, I have the correct country setting (PL).
I can't recall and can't check now how it settled on auto.

With the recommended config: channel.frequency=5180,5260,5500 .width=20/40/80mhz AP selected 5500/ax/Ceee, and the performance was much better than on auto

After some investigation and looking at used frequencies around, using the scan function, I adjusted the list to frequencies which are not used:
frequency=5500,5580,5660,5826 width=20/40/80mhz skip-dfs-channels=10min-cac, and now it runs on 5660/ax/Ceee, the performance is similar to 5500. TX Power 23, signal on my primary machine: -65/-66
 
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Re: hAP ax² and hAP ax³ now support the entire 5 GHz range

Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:25 pm

It actually works best if left at default settings, there is no need for a guide just to get it working, only for finetuning and custom setups.
What makes you say defaults are no good?
In my case (country PL) ax3 turned on and quickly launched default (due to "no time, let's just have it working ASAP") was definitely the worst WiFi device I have ever tested in my ~20 years networking career ;) Simply - it doesn't work as expected.
 
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Re: hAP ax² and hAP ax³ now support the entire 5 GHz range

Thu Feb 23, 2023 8:30 pm

stark, most of us are SO ON YOUR PAGE!!! Ignore the biased BS coming from so called support (more like marketing staff) and those are kind words today.
forum users will eventually sort out truth and provide better guidance than any MT documentation
 
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Re: hAP ax² and hAP ax³ now support the entire 5 GHz range

Thu Feb 23, 2023 8:33 pm

my experience is the same with my new hAPax3. out the box it is terrible, much worse than my hapac2 was as far as range is concerned. I manually changed things as close to the ac2 as I could and they improved. I also spent ages moving around the antenna and trying to find the “sweet spot”. the 5ghz channel is fine now but 2.4ghz on ax3 is still weaker than my ac2. like others have experienced it also keeps switching between the channels which is a nuisance. I also see the “can't find PMKSA” messages occasionally. I hope future updates will improve its behaviour
 
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Re: hAP ax² and hAP ax³ now support the entire 5 GHz range

Fri Feb 24, 2023 8:18 am

I use the ax2 as an L2 switch + Wi-Fi only. So it's not routing anything, it's just switching.

For 5GHz, I get 800Mbps down peak, and 900Mbps up peak.
I set TX power for 5GHz to 40. 2GHz to defaults. It never really overheated or anything.

Maybe the people who has massive issues, have misconfig because the docs aren't clear or it's defective unit. Below is my config example:
/interface bridge
add frame-types=admit-only-vlan-tagged igmp-snooping=yes igmp-version=3 mld-version=2 name=bridge priority=0x2000 vlan-filtering=yes
/interface ethernet
set [ find default-name=ether1 ] l2mtu=9214 mtu=9214
set [ find default-name=ether2 ] l2mtu=9214 mtu=9214
set [ find default-name=ether3 ] l2mtu=9214 mtu=9214
set [ find default-name=ether4 ] l2mtu=9214 mtu=9214
set [ find default-name=ether5 ] l2mtu=9214 mtu=9214
/interface vlan
add interface=bridge name="Management VLAN" vlan-id=10
/interface list
add name="Management Interfaces"
/interface wifiwave2 security
add authentication-types=wpa2-psk,wpa3-psk name=Main_VLAN_Security wps=disable
/interface wifiwave2
set [ find default-name=wifi2 ] channel.band=2ghz-ax .skip-dfs-channels=all .width=20/40mhz configuration.chains=0,1 .mode=ap .ssid=Dark_Nate .tx-chains=0,1 disabled=no l2mtu=2290 \
    mtu=2290 name=2GHz_1 security=Main_VLAN_Security security.authentication-types=wpa2-psk,wpa3-psk .wps=disable
set [ find default-name=wifi1 ] channel.band=5ghz-ax .skip-dfs-channels=all .width=20/40/80mhz configuration.chains=0,1 .mode=ap .ssid=Dark_Nate .tx-chains=0,1 .tx-power=40 \
    disabled=no l2mtu=2290 mtu=2290 name=5GHz_1 security=Main_VLAN_Security security.authentication-types=wpa2-psk,wpa3-psk .wps=disable
/interface bridge port
add bridge=bridge comment=defconf edge=yes frame-types=admit-only-untagged-and-priority-tagged interface=ether2 pvid=20
add bridge=bridge comment=defconf edge=yes frame-types=admit-only-untagged-and-priority-tagged interface=ether3 pvid=20
add bridge=bridge comment=defconf edge=yes frame-types=admit-only-untagged-and-priority-tagged interface=ether4 pvid=20
add bridge=bridge comment=defconf edge=yes frame-types=admit-only-untagged-and-priority-tagged interface=5GHz_1 pvid=20
add bridge=bridge comment=defconf edge=yes frame-types=admit-only-untagged-and-priority-tagged interface=2GHz_1 pvid=20
add bridge=bridge comment=defconf edge=no frame-types=admit-only-vlan-tagged interface=ether1 point-to-point=yes trusted=yes
add bridge=bridge comment=defconf edge=yes frame-types=admit-only-untagged-and-priority-tagged interface=ether5 pvid=10
/interface bridge vlan
add bridge=bridge comment="MGMT VLAN" tagged=ether1,bridge vlan-ids=10
add bridge=bridge comment="Main VLAN" tagged=ether1,bridge vlan-ids=20
/interface list member
add interface="Management VLAN" list="Management Interfaces"
 
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Re: hAP ax² and hAP ax³ now support the entire 5 GHz range

Fri Feb 24, 2023 9:33 am

I'm lucky, I only set the country and everything works fine: stable connection and with file transfers I almost always get over 800 Mbps.
Mine hAP ax3 almost always uses channel 100 and there are ~20 devices connected.
 
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Re: hAP ax² and hAP ax³ now support the entire 5 GHz range

Fri Feb 24, 2023 5:50 pm

Since that is what Normis recommended, it good to see it works for some. But rather than saying default/auto is best, tell me why its best.
For example should I assume that the ax3 uses the scan and freq tools imbedded, to figure out where to set the radios????? If so thats better than me doing it LOL.
 
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Re: hAP ax² and hAP ax³ now support the entire 5 GHz range

Fri Feb 24, 2023 6:08 pm

I did something similar.
Started with default, only changed frequency and security settings for my needs.
Then i added VLANs etc as it was on AC3.

Fastest wifi device i have at home is Samsung S20 and it gets close to 600, sometimes over.
On AC3 it reaches 540-ish.
 
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Re: hAP ax² and hAP ax³ now support the entire 5 GHz range

Fri Feb 24, 2023 6:23 pm

I use the ax2 as an L2 switch + Wi-Fi only. So it's not routing anything, it's just switching.
I'd suggest to stay with ax2 and keep away from ax3 until they fix it. Your performance can be achieved on ax3 only when you're literally next to it :(
 
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Re: hAP ax² and hAP ax³ now support the entire 5 GHz range

Fri Feb 24, 2023 6:25 pm

I'm lucky, I only set the country and everything works fine: stable connection and with file transfers I almost always get over 800 Mbps.
Mine hAP ax3 almost always uses channel 100 and there are ~20 devices connected.
What is your typical range? 800Mbps I can get just next to AP, 2+ meters and it's gone. Do you have all devices on Wi-Fi6 or mixed ac and ax?
 
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Re: hAP ax² and hAP ax³ now support the entire 5 GHz range

Fri Feb 24, 2023 6:29 pm

I did something similar.
Started with default, only changed frequency and security settings for my needs.
Then i added VLANs etc as it was on AC3.

Fastest wifi device i have at home is Samsung S20 and it gets close to 600, sometimes over.
On AC3 it reaches 540-ish.
I think an important factor in the ax3 case is the uselessness of the 2Ghz radio if you're not full-on Wifi6. It doesn't support ac.
5G radio is performing at least average and has a low range. These two factors make ax3 WiFi experience very bad in the hybrid environment. Maybe in the lab, with WiFi6 devices only it works.
 
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Re: hAP ax² and hAP ax³ now support the entire 5 GHz range

Fri Feb 24, 2023 10:13 pm

I think an important factor in the ax3 case is the uselessness of the 2Ghz radio if you're not full-on Wifi6. It doesn't support ac.

This is not ax3 specific, it's standard. 802.11ac is only for 5GHz band, just like 802.11a was.
 
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Re: hAP ax² and hAP ax³ now support the entire 5 GHz range

Fri Feb 24, 2023 10:57 pm

I think an important factor in the ax3 case is the uselessness of the 2Ghz radio if you're not full-on Wifi6. It doesn't support ac.

This is not ax3 specific, it's standard. 802.11ac is only for 5GHz band, just like 802.11a was.
Then I just don't get 2.4 performance on ax3, with rates like 72Mbps max :(
 
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Re: hAP ax² and hAP ax³ now support the entire 5 GHz range

Sat Feb 25, 2023 1:40 pm

I use the ax2 as an L2 switch + Wi-Fi only. So it's not routing anything, it's just switching.

For 5GHz, I get 800Mbps down peak, and 900Mbps up peak.
I set TX power for 5GHz to 40. 2GHz to defaults. It never really overheated or anything.

Maybe the people who has massive issues, have misconfig because the docs aren't clear or it's defective unit. Below is my config example:
/interface bridge
add frame-types=admit-only-vlan-tagged igmp-snooping=yes igmp-version=3 mld-version=2 name=bridge priority=0x2000 vlan-filtering=yes
/interface ethernet
set [ find default-name=ether1 ] l2mtu=9214 mtu=9214
set [ find default-name=ether2 ] l2mtu=9214 mtu=9214
set [ find default-name=ether3 ] l2mtu=9214 mtu=9214
set [ find default-name=ether4 ] l2mtu=9214 mtu=9214
set [ find default-name=ether5 ] l2mtu=9214 mtu=9214
/interface vlan
add interface=bridge name="Management VLAN" vlan-id=10
/interface list
add name="Management Interfaces"
/interface wifiwave2 security
add authentication-types=wpa2-psk,wpa3-psk name=Main_VLAN_Security wps=disable
/interface wifiwave2
set [ find default-name=wifi2 ] channel.band=2ghz-ax .skip-dfs-channels=all .width=20/40mhz configuration.chains=0,1 .mode=ap .ssid=Dark_Nate .tx-chains=0,1 disabled=no l2mtu=2290 \
    mtu=2290 name=2GHz_1 security=Main_VLAN_Security security.authentication-types=wpa2-psk,wpa3-psk .wps=disable
set [ find default-name=wifi1 ] channel.band=5ghz-ax .skip-dfs-channels=all .width=20/40/80mhz configuration.chains=0,1 .mode=ap .ssid=Dark_Nate .tx-chains=0,1 .tx-power=40 \
    disabled=no l2mtu=2290 mtu=2290 name=5GHz_1 security=Main_VLAN_Security security.authentication-types=wpa2-psk,wpa3-psk .wps=disable
/interface bridge port
add bridge=bridge comment=defconf edge=yes frame-types=admit-only-untagged-and-priority-tagged interface=ether2 pvid=20
add bridge=bridge comment=defconf edge=yes frame-types=admit-only-untagged-and-priority-tagged interface=ether3 pvid=20
add bridge=bridge comment=defconf edge=yes frame-types=admit-only-untagged-and-priority-tagged interface=ether4 pvid=20
add bridge=bridge comment=defconf edge=yes frame-types=admit-only-untagged-and-priority-tagged interface=5GHz_1 pvid=20
add bridge=bridge comment=defconf edge=yes frame-types=admit-only-untagged-and-priority-tagged interface=2GHz_1 pvid=20
add bridge=bridge comment=defconf edge=no frame-types=admit-only-vlan-tagged interface=ether1 point-to-point=yes trusted=yes
add bridge=bridge comment=defconf edge=yes frame-types=admit-only-untagged-and-priority-tagged interface=ether5 pvid=10
/interface bridge vlan
add bridge=bridge comment="MGMT VLAN" tagged=ether1,bridge vlan-ids=10
add bridge=bridge comment="Main VLAN" tagged=ether1,bridge vlan-ids=20
/interface list member
add interface="Management VLAN" list="Management Interfaces"
Thank you for posting this. I'm going to get round to copying and playing with this on mine to see what effect it has.

Device is at another location at the moment but when I get back there I'll try again. One of my thoughts was that the unit has been turned on without the antennas, and it had cooked something. BUT I am the only one who opened the sealed package and antennas were connected well first time, so I suppose I can rule this out.

I did have another problem with the unit (fit of front blue WPS button was not protruding properly and was flush with the case) but the supplier is going to swap the unit out for me when they have stock. Maybe I do have a dud :-) It certainly feels that way ...

Will report back once I get a chance to try...
 
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Re: hAP ax² and hAP ax³ now support the entire 5 GHz range

Sat Feb 25, 2023 1:45 pm




This is not ax3 specific, it's standard. 802.11ac is only for 5GHz band, just like 802.11a was.
Then I just don't get 2.4 performance on ax3, with rates like 72Mbps max :(
@PeteXC you seen the post here...

viewtopic.php?t=190109

Makes you sick, doesn't it? That's some seriously good performance from the ax2
 
DarkNate
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Re: hAP ax² and hAP ax³ now support the entire 5 GHz range

Wed Mar 01, 2023 11:27 pm

Which one has larger range? EU or US?
 
PeterXC
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Re: hAP ax² and hAP ax³ now support the entire 5 GHz range

Thu Mar 02, 2023 1:05 pm

=esj post_id=986593 time=1677325547
@PeteXC you seen the post here...

viewtopic.php?t=190109

Makes you sick, doesn't it? That's some seriously good performance from the ax2
Well, I know how to have good performance on MikroTik! I will share my secret!

Turn off both radios and connect using a different AP 🤣🤣🤣
iperf3 from the same laptop to iperf3 server on MikroTik container, using Wi-Fi from my cable provider, gives 1.1/0.9 Gbps! And the AP is actually a bit further than MT was 🤣🤣🤣

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