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lenar89
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Getting half of my Internet speed on Wifi

Wed Apr 05, 2023 8:25 pm

Hello,
I'm confiused. I'm trying to find proper configuration of my wifi devices. I'm testing their with different ISPs and on different locations/buildings and I've even tried more than one version of RouterOS on each devices.
But the results are always the same: The top speed of the Internet is about 50% of top speed I get using wire or ISP's wifi device.

And I give up, I don't know where is the problem.

My wifi devices:
- hap ac2
- hap ac3
- cap xl ac
- wap ac

My edge routers:
- hex RB750Gr3
- RB3011UiAS-RM
- hap ac2/ac3 (sometimes they were the edge routers and wifi APs at the same time but they also were used as APs only)

RouterOS versions I've used: 6.48.6, 6.49.7, 7.6, 7.7, 7.8
I changed RB firmware version each time I changed RouterOS version.
I've used wifi configuration directly on devices and by CAPSMan (always local-forwarding).
I've used default routeros configuration and no-default with my tunning options.

Finally, I feel I know nothing. Especially, why the top speed is always about 50%. It is not, for instance, 90% slower than ISP claims but it is always about 50%.

I'm not sure which version of my configuration I should show you....
I supose my configurations are not very bad and the devices are good enough but there is some extra feature/switch/config option in Router OS which I missed.

Please, tell me what should I do to you could help me.
 
AllexRo
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Re: Getting half of my Internet speed on Wifi

Thu Apr 06, 2023 5:20 pm

I bet hap ac3, with WifiWave2 drivers, would perform closer to your expectations - you could test it briefly as a stand-alone unit.
BTW, what is your ISP speed? To understand what that 50% is really about..
 
holvoetn
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Re: Getting half of my Internet speed on Wifi

Thu Apr 06, 2023 6:18 pm

I swapped AC3's out for AX3 recently but those AC3 were easily able to fully use my ISP connection over wifi: 300/30.
Internal iperf3-testing I could get them to 400Mbps-ish using Samsung S20 (already an 'older' device for some but good enough for me).

You could start here:
viewtopic.php?p=908118

Drawing of your network (can be on paper) incl what your ISP offers as bandwidth
export of device acting as router
export of 1 device acting as ap

And then we work from there.

PS AC3 with wifiwave2 should make a noticeable difference.
 
lenar89
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Re: Getting half of my Internet speed on Wifi

Fri Apr 07, 2023 7:27 pm

I bet hap ac3, with WifiWave2 drivers, would perform closer to your expectations - you could test it briefly as a stand-alone unit.
BTW, what is your ISP speed? To understand what that 50% is really about..
I tested them with 3 different ISPs and each of them were also in totally different locations:
1st - 100 Mb/s download speed and 10 upload speed.
2nd - 300 download and 50 upload
3rd - 600 download and 30 upload

But, I always got about 50 Mb/s, 150 Mb/s and 300 Mb/s of download speed (that is "my 50%"), using exactly the same devices.
And (as I wrote eariler) when I use devices from ISP (or just wire) the speed is always about 95-100%.

The uploads were always 100% and that is even weirder, for me.
 
lenar89
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Re: Getting half of my Internet speed on Wifi

Mon Apr 17, 2023 3:21 pm

Sorry for the delay but I had to check some configuration options.

I was testing a couple of configuration scenarios in 3rd location, using HEX760 and Cap XL ac.
There should be 600/30 Mb/s of speed. When I'm using wired connection the speed is about 570-590 / 27-30.
After a lot of changes I finally get 400-420 / 25-30 by wireless connection.

Of course this is better than 50% I got before (280-300) but still it is not acceptable for me.
Especially, when I replaced Cap XL with Ubiquiti UAP AC LITE (the old version, not the new one) with almost default configuration I got 500-520.
After few fixes there was 550-570 and this is what I am expect from MT.

There are the best configs I am able to do:
1) hex760iGS as an edge-router and capsman at the same time. there is default config with my changes:
/caps-man channel
add band=5ghz-onlyac control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=Ceee \
    frequency=5180 name=ch-5
/caps-man datapath
add local-forwarding=yes name=datapath1
/interface bridge
add name=bridge
/caps-man rates
add basic=12Mbps,24Mbps,36Mbps,48Mbps,54Mbps name=rate-5g supported=\
    24Mbps,36Mbps,48Mbps,54Mbps
/caps-man security
add authentication-types=wpa2-psk encryption=aes-ccm group-encryption=aes-ccm \
    name=xl123
/caps-man configuration
add channel=ch-5 country=poland datapath=datapath1 distance=indoors \
    hw-protection-mode=rts-cts hw-retries=5 installation=indoor mode=ap \
    multicast-helper=full name=cfg-5 rates=rate-5g security=xl123 ssid=xl123
/interface list
add comment=defconf name=WAN
add comment=defconf name=LAN
add include=WAN name=MGMT
/interface lte apn
set [ find default=yes ] ip-type=ipv4 use-network-apn=no
/interface wireless security-profiles
set [ find default=yes ] supplicant-identity=MikroTik
/ip pool
add name=dhcp_pool0 ranges=172.31.4.2-172.31.4.254
/ip dhcp-server
add address-pool=dhcp_pool0 interface=bridge name=dhcp1
/port
set 0 name=serial0
/caps-man manager
set enabled=yes
/caps-man provisioning
add action=create-dynamic-enabled hw-supported-modes=ac master-configuration=\
    cfg-5 name-format=identity name-prefix=5G
/interface bridge port
add bridge=bridge ingress-filtering=no interface=ether3
add bridge=bridge ingress-filtering=no interface=ether4
add bridge=bridge ingress-filtering=no interface=ether1
/ip neighbor discovery-settings
set discover-interface-list=MGMT
/ipv6 settings
set disable-ipv6=yes max-neighbor-entries=8192
/interface list member
add interface=ether2 list=WAN
add interface=bridge list=LAN
add interface=ether5 list=MGMT
/interface ovpn-server server
set auth=sha1,md5
/ip address
add address=172.31.4.1/24 interface=bridge network=172.31.4.0
/ip dhcp-client
add interface=ether2
/ip dhcp-server network
add address=172.31.4.0/24 gateway=172.31.4.1
/ip firewall filter
add action=accept chain=input comment=\
    "defconf: accept established,related,untracked" connection-state=\
    established,related,untracked
add action=drop chain=input comment="defconf: drop invalid" connection-state=\
    invalid
add action=accept chain=input comment="defconf: accept ICMP" protocol=icmp
add action=accept chain=input comment=\
    "defconf: accept to local loopback (for CAPsMAN)" dst-address=127.0.0.1
add action=drop chain=input comment="defconf: drop all not coming from LAN" \
    in-interface-list=!LAN
add action=accept chain=forward comment="defconf: accept in ipsec policy" \
    ipsec-policy=in,ipsec
add action=accept chain=forward comment="defconf: accept out ipsec policy" \
    ipsec-policy=out,ipsec
add action=fasttrack-connection chain=forward comment="defconf: fasttrack" \
    connection-state=established,related hw-offload=yes
add action=accept chain=forward comment=\
    "defconf: accept established,related, untracked" connection-state=\
    established,related,untracked
add action=drop chain=forward comment="defconf: drop invalid" \
    connection-state=invalid
add action=drop chain=forward comment=\
    "defconf: drop all from WAN not DSTNATed" connection-nat-state=!dstnat \
    connection-state=new in-interface-list=WAN
/ip firewall nat
add action=masquerade chain=srcnat comment="defconf: masquerade" \
    ipsec-policy=out,none out-interface-list=WAN
/system clock
set time-zone-name=Europe/Warsaw
/system identity
set name=test-main
/system routerboard settings
set silent-boot=yes
/tool romon
set enabled=yes
2) Cap xl ac as the Cap itself ;) there is default caps mode configuration with my changes:
/interface bridge
add admin-mac=[here was the mac address] auto-mac=no comment=defconf name=bridgeLocal
/interface wireless
set [ find default-name=wlan1 ] ssid=MikroTik
set [ find default-name=wlan2 ] adaptive-noise-immunity=ap-and-client-mode \
    band=5ghz-onlyac disabled=no mode=ap-bridge ssid=MikroTik wmm-support=\
    enabled
/interface wireless security-profiles
set [ find default=yes ] supplicant-identity=MikroTik
/ip hotspot profile
set [ find default=yes ] html-directory=hotspot
/interface bridge port
add bridge=bridgeLocal comment=defconf interface=ether1
add bridge=bridgeLocal comment=defconf interface=ether2
/interface wireless cap
set bridge=bridgeLocal discovery-interfaces=bridgeLocal enabled=yes \
    interfaces=wlan2
/ip dhcp-client
add comment=defconf interface=bridgeLocal
/system clock
set time-zone-name=Europe/Warsaw
/system identity
set name=test-xl123
/tool romon
set enabled=yes
Config was exported by:
/ export hide-sensitive
Both devices were upgraded to 7.8 version of RouterOS and RouterBoard firmware.

Any suggestions?
Last edited by lenar89 on Wed Apr 19, 2023 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
holvoetn
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Re: Getting half of my Internet speed on Wifi

Mon Apr 17, 2023 5:36 pm

Cap XL AC doesn't use wifiwave2 drivers, so I think that's the max you can get out of it.
Corresponds a bit to what I could get out of AC3 without wifiwave2 drivers (400 to 420-ish using Samsung S20).

Ditch capsman and it might perform slightly better but not by much. Depending on your final configuration it's a trade-off you will have to make. Configure everything on 1 place or AP per AP.
If less then 4 or 5 APs or a very static setup with no need for central monitoring or so, I would choose individual setup.
 
lenar89
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Re: Getting half of my Internet speed on Wifi

Mon Apr 17, 2023 7:57 pm

If you're right I'm very disappointed with Cap XL...
UAC AC LITE with 802.11ac just works. It knows nothing about 802.11ax / Wave2 / other new standard of wifi because it had been bought a few years before WIFI-6 was officially introduced and still... it just works. Cap XL seems to have the same hardware specification as ubiquiti but I had to spend 1-2 weeks to improve cap's wifi speed from 300 to 400 Mb/s... :(

PS: I've bought hap AX3 and I've configured its wifi and Wave2 does what it should. But still, it is hard to believe that 600 Mb/s is so hard to achieve with the Cap XL.
PS2: I also tested the same configuration (hex760 and Cap XL) without Capsman and results were pretty much the same...

I am sad because I've bought Cap XLs a few months ago and I thought they would serve me a bit :(
 
holvoetn
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Re: Getting half of my Internet speed on Wifi

Mon Apr 17, 2023 8:14 pm

Unless I understood wrong... ( and surely someone will correct me then)
Cap xl ac uses 2x2 radio.
So maximum rate is 866 Mbps.
Real speed is about half of that, therefore 433 is what you can expect in optimal conditions.
What's the radio in the ubiquity?

As reference:
Ax Lite using 2.4GHz can reach 400Mbps with little to no tweaking. But that's AX using wifi wave 2 drivers.
 
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Re: Getting half of my Internet speed on Wifi

Tue Apr 18, 2023 12:15 pm

I thought they would serve me a bit
They will certainly serve you for 10 years. Only the wifi speed on microtik devices remains at the level of 2013. The wifi driver for ROS v6 will not change, so everything will work as it works, qualitatively stable not fast. For 95-98% of scenarios of use this speed is quite enough.
 
lenar89
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Re: Getting half of my Internet speed on Wifi

Wed Apr 19, 2023 8:55 pm


What's the radio in the ubiquity?
Ubiquiti and xl ac have 2x2 MIMO, rate 866 Mbps, 802.11ac. So these parameters are the same. But the speed of Internet is a bit different.
 
lenar89
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Re: Getting half of my Internet speed on Wifi

Wed Apr 19, 2023 8:59 pm

I thought they would serve me a bit
They will certainly serve you for 10 years. Only the wifi speed on microtik devices remains at the level of 2013. The wifi driver for ROS v6 will not change, so everything will work as it works, qualitatively stable not fast. For 95-98% of scenarios of use this speed is quite enough.
But I'm using ROS v7.8 so I assumed that Mikrotik team improved wifi drivers a little bit.
Am I wrong?
 
alibloke
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Re: Getting half of my Internet speed on Wifi

Thu Apr 20, 2023 10:25 am

It wouldn't surprise me if most of the development focus is on wifiwave2 now.
 
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Re: Getting half of my Internet speed on Wifi

Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:05 am

It wouldn't surprise me if most of the development focus is on wifiwave2 now.
Actually...all focus on wave2 indeed.

Driver hasn't changed and won't change.
 
holvoetn
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Re: Getting half of my Internet speed on Wifi

Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:13 am

If you look in various change logs for ROS7 there have been some adjustments for legacy wifi (wireless).
Latest being in 7.7

After that, nothing anymore. So yes, conclusion is focus moved to wifiwave2 (which is understandable).
 
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Re: Getting half of my Internet speed on Wifi

Thu Apr 20, 2023 5:05 pm


What's the radio in the ubiquity?
Ubiquiti and xl ac have 2x2 MIMO, rate 866 Mbps, 802.11ac. So these parameters are the same. But the speed of Internet is a bit different.
Speed is different, because Mikrotik is sending too small payloads for every allowed transmission slot.
When the payload (blue part) is smaller, like in this extreme exemple , then the rest is the same, and the overhead % goes up a lot, and there is still the same arbitration time to be added here.
viewtopic.php?t=165698#p817145

wifiwave2 does like other off-the-shelf drivers, with large A-MSDU(MPDU) and A-MPDU sizes. viewtopic.php?t=188338

By focusing on wifiwave2 only, Mikrotik has been throwing the baby out with the bathwater, if they do not succeed in bringing in the unique goodies of the legagcy driver.
 
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Re: Getting half of my Internet speed on Wifi

Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:55 pm

Anecdotally, after installing hundreds of hAP AC2 and AC3, and now some AX3's:

All tests run with iPhone 11 Pro and M1 13" MacBook Pro (both 802.11ax capable).

I typically max out at around 300Mbps on stock AC drivers (6 & 7), but have seen as high as 450 on upload.

If I upgrade the drivers on AC3, I can get 600+, and on AX3, 700+. On both AX3 and my WiFi 6 UniFi gear, I've peaked at just under 800Mbps on the bench (within a few feet of the AP).
Last edited by sirbryan on Fri Apr 21, 2023 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
holvoetn
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Re: Getting half of my Internet speed on Wifi

Thu Apr 20, 2023 8:44 pm

The need for speed... I still don't get it.
Why is good enough never good enough ?
 
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Re: Getting half of my Internet speed on Wifi

Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:32 pm

Upload is using the A-MPDU aggregation of the Iphone and MACbook.
The download uses the aggregated package size of the MKT classic diver.
(What it does on speed, see the calculator: https://gjermundraaen.com/thewifiairtimecalculator/ )

Maybe MKT's used A-MPDU is smaller. Hard to measure with wifi sniffer, as A-MPDU is at the driver level, and assembly/disassembly is probably handled before it reaches the sniffer.
 
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Re: Getting half of my Internet speed on Wifi

Fri Apr 21, 2023 12:38 pm

The need for speed... I still don't get it.
Why is good enough never good enough ?
It's less about the "speed" and more about the amount of data transmitted in a given window of time, thus maximizing the efficiency of the medium. And it's not always about having full access to all of your Internet bandwidth, especially since the vast majority of web servers aren't pushing more than 200-300Mbps to individual users for very long.

Because WiFi is a shared, half-duplex medium (i.e. CSMA, where only one device can be talking at a time per radio), it is critical to have use of as much of the bandwidth as possible. If you've got 20-30 devices, chances are high that most of them are taking up air time sending trivial amounts of data, while a small handful are actually doing something worthwhile. If the AP can service those clients with 2-3x as much more data while still handling the chit-chat of all the other devices, then client apps (and hence customers) are happy and end up taking less air time themselves.

In high-density environments (50-100 users) like hotel ballrooms, schools, offices, etc., you want to squeeze every last drop out of each AP to avoid having to install more and thereby chewing up spectrum.

For outdoor/WISP use, the faster they're served, the faster they're off the network. My 60GHz deployments have much lower latency than my 802.11ac or LTU (Ubiquiti) sectors despite serving 2-5x the amount of bandwidth to roughly the same amount of people in any given moment. One noticeable benefit is that customers' VPNs work significantly better.

Also, there is the desire (need?) in some use cases to have near-wire speed performance from mobile devices (like laptops or iPads) connected to file servers for data-intensive operations such as SMB file transfers, video editing (with streaming of large amounts of data back and forth to disk), HD/4K live streaming from wireless cameras to encoders or file servers/NVR's, etc.

While 200-300Mbps is normally sufficient for most homes (and faster than their Internet in most cases), 600-800 is a game-changer for creatives. For me specifically, that 600-800Mbps allows me to leave the photo and video files on the server and edit from my device and location of choice.
 
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Re: Getting half of my Internet speed on Wifi

Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:53 am

I thought they would serve me a bit
They will certainly serve you for 10 years. Only the wifi speed on microtik devices remains at the level of 2013. The wifi driver for ROS v6 will not change, so everything will work as it works, qualitatively stable not fast. For 95-98% of scenarios of use this speed is quite enough.
Yup already 10 years out of date.
 
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Re: Getting half of my Internet speed on Wifi

Wed Nov 22, 2023 3:39 pm

7.13beta2 lets you put wave2 drivers on all (I think) of the ARM WiFi devices.

I've already converted cAP AC, Netmetal AC2, hAP AC2, Disc 5s, Audiences (that can now do station bridge). There are some tweaks that need to be made, mainly:

/interface/wifiwave2/configuration> set [find] security.connect-priority=0/1

Performance is much improved, as is range, and the usability of the connection at the edge of the range. For example, I had an install with an Audience, I could not consistently log in from the truck outside with Winbox. Or surf the web when I did connect. After Wave2 drivers, I could get ~15Mbps down, surf the web, and connect just fine from the truck. The laptop has an old Centrino WiFi 5 adapter.

I've converted Audiences that were using NV2 for the bridge between two buildings (400ft), and were barely providing 20Mbps, that get over 100Mbps now.

So Wave2 isn't just about faster speeds right next to the AP. It's far more usable when there's interference and when you're at the edge of the range. And now they will seamlessly roam and do band steering.

I have not tried to use CapsMan yet, so I can't comment on the quality of that implementation.

Now the Audience is very comparable to a TP-Link EAP660. It's about 80% as fast on the lower 5GHz band (only 2x2 vs 4x4), and a hair faster on the upper 5GHz band (4x4 vs 4x4 WiFi6).

The 2.4GHz can also reach over 200Mbps if the spectrum is clean, you're close, and you're using 40MHz channels, which I never saw with the old drivers.

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