What's the recommended process for upgrading a hAP Lite from v6.35 to v6.35.2?

Attempting to upgrade it via System>>Packages>>Check for Updates>>Download & Install results in the following error: I have reset this router to default config, and removed all files, but this did not help. I do not have any non-core packages installed. System>>Resources says that there is 7.4MiB disk space and 8.7MiB RAM available.

please post "/system package print" and "/file print" just to be 100% sure you didn't miss something

Netinstall should be able to solve this, but I would like to learn how this situation became possible.

please post "/system package print" and "/file print" just to be 100% sure you didn't miss something

Too late sorry - my post got stuck in the moderation queue and I gave up waiting for it - ended up doing a netinstall, which worked.

I do know that prior to the upgrade, I cleared out files and checked packages for anything unnecessary. The only file was a 40B JSON file (skin), and the only packages installed were core ones (default packages plus wireless-rep), and all were at v6.35.

I've tested this with a spare hAP Lite - I can reliably reproduce the problem.

To reproduce:

• 1. Downgrade to v6.35 either via System>>Packages or netinstall
  2. /system reset-configuration skip-backup=yes
  3. Install wireless-rep
  4. Reboot
  5. Attempt to upgrade via /system package update check-for-updates, install

This does call into question the rationale behind using such a small amount of flash - it's cheap, and going with something slightly larger would be a non-issue cost wise. In my personal opinion, it should be large enough to accommodate *all* possible packages, to ensure update reliability. 16MB is really proving to be inadequate here.

I've seen other posts claiming that the update is done entirely in RAM (and that available disk space is therefore irrelevant), but that's clearly not the case for the hAP Lite.

Thanks jarda - looks like things are pretty shocking there!!!

Normis - what's the recommended procedure for upgrading one of these remotely? If I'm using the wireless-rep package to connect to it, then I can't remove that package in order to free enough space for the update to work.

Also, I would very much like to know - what actual *testing* did Mikrotik perform regarding the upgrade process on the hAP Lite before this device was released? I cannot believe that this issue was not obvious then.

Actually deleting all files and reboot can help a bit too. You can install wireless package together with the system in the first step. Then in second step the rest.

I consider putting only 32mb of ram and almost any flash into new devices to be very bad idea. It is useless source of actual and future problems.

rep package is considered extra. either change over to REP and then upgrade, or remove it first.

Is there any solution to this. i now have 2% disk space on a hap lite, and the router is becoming unstable, in that it will run at 100% cpu when i try to do a supout.rtf to report it to Mikrotik.

Surely there has to be a solution, to fix this.

I have many of these, and i am afraid they will all follow suit.

I have installed the latest software 6.41.3 but now i doubt i will ever be able to change that without doing a netinstall.

Please provide a solution Mikrotik.

Something similar happening to me using hAP Lite as well. I went to System>Packages>Check For Updates then I clicked on Downlad&Install but I've chosen a different firmware version I really wanted, so I cancelled. For some reason It got stuck on the routerboard's files and I had to reset to get back it clean cause I was out of space

Remove unwanted packages. Remove all removable files. Put newer single system package only and reboot. Then add rest of required packages and reboot again.

Workaround: use netinstall...

Or buy products with a respectable amount of flash... 16MB is embarrassing. It's like running your network with floppy disks.

No, worse than floppy disks...... Punch cards.....

Remove unwanted packages. Remove all removable files. Put newer single system package only and reboot. Then add rest of required packages and reboot again.

There isn't enough space to do that. This is a remote router. Netinstall is not an option.

Trying to upgrade from 6.42.3:
I have deleted everything in Files except the skins folder and rebooted.
Can't download 6.42.6 - this has space saving functionality
Can't download 6.42.12.
Can't download 6.43. - this allows you to use ram for files
Can't download 6.43.12. - this is the version I want to get to

Supout.rif sent to support.

I wrote nothing about netinstall. If it is remote installation, add eventually other one or two packages that are critically necessary to log in aside the single system package during the first installation process step.
If you want to be sure that nothing bad happens, prepare second device and let someone to swap it at place. Then you can do whatever with the first one and use elsewhere afterwards.

May be don't include modules disabled by default in RouterOS package for smips?
advanced-tools, hotspot, mpls, routing, security -- that modules can be uploaded separately.

May be don't include modules disabled by default in RouterOS package for smips?
advanced-tools, hotspot, mpls, routing, security -- that modules can be uploaded separately.

That's how I managed to resolve the problem. By only downloading the absolute minimum packages required for the next version and rebooting. You only need system and security for most purposes. Wireless too for non-ethernet connected devices.

May be don't include modules disabled by default in RouterOS package for smips?
advanced-tools, hotspot, mpls, routing, security -- that modules can be uploaded separately.

That's how I managed to resolve the problem. By only downloading the absolute minimum packages required for the next version and rebooting. You only need system and security for most purposes. Wireless too for non-ethernet connected devices.

In recent versions security package depends on dhcp package Even if DHCP package is installed but disabled, upgrade won't proceed ... so DHCP package has to be installed/enabled before performing upgrade.

In recent versions security package depends on dhcp package Even if DHCP package is installed but disabled, upgrade won't proceed ... so DHCP package has to be installed/enabled before performing upgrade.

Meh. It would be nice if they ship the devices with the individual packages installed by default instead of the bundled packages. That way you can "uninstall" what you want and just reboot to free up space.

There are too many packages installed by default to be able to be in-place upgraded. Here's what's there now:


Download SMIPS extra Packages zip file. Extract these:


Drag and drop the files to Files


Reboot

Install extra packages if you need them. See descriptions from here:
https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:System/Packages

And when we have a network of hundreds of HAP lite ??

Mikrotik should provide a trouble free solution to this situation ...

Do your hundreds of devices have custom packages installed? Normally there shouldn't be any custom packages and no problem upgrading.

My instructions were based on hap lite factory defaults. There is not enough RAM to upgrade by default methods all factory configured packages. If you have hundreds on hap lites deployed, automate my instructions or hire someone that can do it for you.

I stopped buying hap lites because the hardware doesn't have enough ram. IMHO mikrotik shouldn't have factory images with so many packages installed on these low end devices

Will need to do a NetInstall otherwise :(

My question was, does anyone have issues using "check for updates" with a device with factory installed version?
Because in the examples I either see custom package sets, or 6.48 beta versions.

My question was, does anyone have issues using "check for updates" with a device with factory installed version?
Because in the examples I either see custom package sets, or 6.48 beta versions.

I had this problem on my hAP mini (MUM freebie) but I solved it by one time doing an upgrade using only the separate packages I require instead of the combined package, and from then it upgrades using the one-click method without problem.
There is no wildly unusual config on it: 3 SSIDs each connecting to a VLAN on the ethernet connected to my router. It serves as an AP in the bedroom.
No routing, no NAT, almost no firewall.

I should have tried doing a reboot and then immediately an upgrade, the buildup of RAM usage (and fragmentation) during extended usage could have been just the trigger that pushed it over the limit. Note that the upgrade procedure is VERY CLOSE to the limit of RAM. That also explains why omitting a couple of small packages I do not use solved it for now.

Do your hundreds of devices have custom packages installed? Normally there shouldn't be any custom packages and no problem upgrading.

Hi, fortunately I dont have 100s of device I have 10s of devices.

All device have default packages.

This issue didnt just start happening out of the blue.

Currently the best solution (without having to create scripts etc) is to login and drag only needed packages onto the device and reboot .......

My question was, does anyone have issues using "check for updates" with a device with factory installed version?
Because in the examples I either see custom package sets, or 6.48 beta versions.

Yes,

from offset factory defaults.

Devices have been upgraded for consecutive number of years.

Last few years this problem is getting worse and worse ..

mongobongo: Did you ever try to reboot the device just before trying the update? That may solve it for now.

The reason I mention this is that MikroTik claim in many threads that they "always test an upgrade with a device running with default settings" and they claim it works.
But we as the users see it fail. So there must be something different between their testlab and "the field". Apart from maybe some complex configurations, another difference likely is that they just netinstall their device with a test setup, and immediately try to upgrade. That has more chance of succeeding than trying to update a device that had been running for a couple of weeks and has used up or -fragmented RAM.

My question was, does anyone have issues using "check for updates" with a device with factory installed version?

Yes, the first screenshot on my 10/6/2020 post was a default packages preinstalled on hap lite devices. No extra packages installed, had only ever done a simple NAT quickset config and check for update on that Mikrotik device and starting ~6months ago check for updates has been failing due to low disk space when trying to update.

I fully agree that on a typical SOHO device a few packages have no place to be installed as factory default. These include: mpls, routing and hotspot, they are clearly advanced stuff that vast majority of users will never need. In addition, these are quite probably not necessary for router to be initially set up and connected to internet, at which point they can be manually uploaded to the router. Many users won't need a few additional packages (such as ppp and advanced-tools), but those might be needed for successful initial device setup, hence they should stay in the default installation list of packages.

As written in other threads, it was not good to make the "combined package" and thus make it impossible to remove packages and gain space.
Indeed as you point out, there are packages on this class of devices that have absolutely no business being there. But they do take up space.
In my opinion the package combining should never have happened, and instead there should have been a convenient package selection feature that retrieves the wanted packages from the download server without the hassle of downloading a bundle, unzipping, and uploading to the router. Just a list showing all available packages and click-to-install-this. Then it would not be such a hurdle to decide to remove something, it can always be re-installed.

But apparently the move is now further towards a "one package does it all". In v7 there is just the "routeros" package that includes everything that was in the combined package, and more (e.g. the ntp package is now included as well). So the option of omitting what you don't need is going away.
I understand that it is extra work to maintain exact dependency information and that some features introduce dependencies that are not obvious to a new user (e.g. some VPN types requiring DHCP). But then maybe there should be a "RouterOS v7 light" that just does not include all functionality, or else these "mini" devices should be abandoned.

I've got two devices with 16meg flash. Looking at "Files" both report around 12.6 used out of 16, but the actual files listed only amount to less than 100k. How do you see what is actually occupying flash?

I've got two devices with 16meg flash. Looking at "Files" both report around 12.6 used out of 16, but the actual files listed only amount to less than 100k. How do you see what is actually occupying flash?

This is not about 16M flash. That is not the problem (yet). You cannot see the RouterOS files that occupy the flash.
The issue is about devices with only 32M RAM (and 16M flash). These are the ones with the upgrading difficulties.

mongobongo: Did you ever try to reboot the device just before trying the update? That may solve it for now.

The reason I mention this is that MikroTik claim in many threads that they "always test an upgrade with a device running with default settings" and they claim it works.
But we as the users see it fail. So there must be something different between their testlab and "the field". Apart from maybe some complex configurations, another difference likely is that they just netinstall their device with a test setup, and immediately try to upgrade. That has more chance of succeeding than trying to update a device that had been running for a couple of weeks and has used up or -fragmented RAM.

Yes of course,

the "golden rule" in most things IT related, if it does not work, restart it and try again

:P

I'm in the category of "have 1000s of devices". To be precise, close to 15.000 hAP Lites in our network. We are trying to upgrade them to 6.47.4, to no avail. No custom packages, nothing out of the ordinary.

We get told the CPEs have 7.3MB left and 7.4MB are needed. We need a way to package single .npk files into an upgrade package with just what we need. Would we ever consider MPLS on a hAP Lite? Not in a million years... so why not give us the ability to remove it from the upgrade package?

I have just tried lowering DNS cache from the default to 512kb, and free memory has actually decreased to below 7MB (was suggested in another thread). Rebooting does nothing to help either. Have disabled MPLS package, no noticeable difference.

We have a mix of 6.43.12 up to 6.46.1, due to the way we provision them with a custom-made app. We need 6.47.4 on our CPEs (actually, anything higher than 6.46.3 as that's when the hostpot login redirect got fixed...).

Taking the mick now... can't make its mind up as to how much free is free...

Last one and I'll shut up until we have other views. I have tried to upgrade by downloading separate package files to a test CPE. This was fine until they would not all fit either, and had to do one set, reboot, then another set, reboot... with the added risk that a CPE could lose power at any time, breaking the process and leaving it in a corrupted state, as only some packages (if any got downloaded) would install.

We get told the CPEs have 7.3MB left and 7.4MB are needed. We need a way to package single .npk files into an upgrade package with just what we need. Would we ever consider MPLS on a hAP Lite? Not in a million years... so why not give us the ability to remove it from the upgrade package?

In 6.47 that capability is actually still there!
First make sure that in your currently running combined package you have set all packages you do not need (like mpls) to disabled, and reboot.
Now on a PC download the all_packages.zip file and extract it. Take ONLY packages you STILL HAVE ENABLED now, and upload them to the device.
Then issue a reboot command on the device.
It will now upgrade the device and at the same time convert it to "separate packages" setup. So the next time you upgrade from the device itself, it will only download those packages and this will give some headroom (enough for now).
Of course when you have many devices you can script the above procedure.

Thanks for your input pe1chl - however the main issue with it is, what happens if some packages don't make it fully, or at all, and the CPE loses power? We don't have control over, or warning from, Kenya's power grid, which is extremely temperamental, so power outages mid-upgrade are definitely an issue. The standard full-package upgrade is quite safe in this respect, as a broken download will not require a customer site visit to replace/re-provision.

In any case, Mikrotik have listened!

What's new in 6.47.6 (2020-Oct-21 10:41):

*) cap - fixed L2MTU path discovery;
*) crs3xx - fixed hardware offloaded LACP bonding on Ethernet interfaces for CRS354 devices;
.........
*) radius - added "Service-Type" attribute to Access-Request for IPv4 and IPv6 DHCP servers;
*) smips - reduced RouterOS main package size;
*) switch - fixed Ethernet padding for small packets;
.........

They have dropped from 7810370 bytes of 6.47.4 to 7351618 bytes in 6.47.6 - nice, thank you!

I can confirm this has worked with ~500 of our deployed hAP Lites, which were previously failing to upgrade. Good news!

Going from 6.44.6 to 6.45.9 - used to work fine using check for update
Going from 6.44.6 to 6.47.9 - no longer works with check-for-update, getting no disk space on hap lite

If you go 6.44.6 -> 6.45.9 -> 6.47.9 - only using winbox then everything works fine. Trying to /tool fetch will yield same error.

We are not rolling out 6.47.9 yet, but I can see that the .npk for 6.47.6 is 7,351,618 bytes, and for 6.47.9 it's 7,390,379 bytes, a 38,761 byte difference (38kB). You must have some leftover files eg. backups, supout.rif, etc. to explain that IMHO.

We remove all files before an update, to make sure we don't run into disk space issues.

Having the exact same issue trying to upgrade to from 6.47.* 6.48.3. The same issue as the person above, I've got hundreds of these devices deployed in customer's homes and there is just no space left. Even after manually disabling all the unneeded packages, and manually dragging only the required upgrade files(1% space left over) and rebooting then logging in to find the update packages are removed from the files directory, and the system remains at the same version it was before. I've tried the instructions above on multiple hap lites and all of them do the same thing. They will not upgrade.

There is no way we can schedule an on-site for each of these devices installed in the field to intrude into a customer's home so we can sit and fiddle around with their router trying to do a netinstall, that's why we setup remote administration and the dude server to monitor them in the first place, it's not feasible.

If a smaller upgrade package doesn't come, we're gonna be left with no choice but to just junk all these devices and replace them with something else.
Cost wise, it's going to be far cheaper to simply re-deploy with a different device than to have an on-site tech sit and manually fiddle with each of these until we can finally get them to upgrade.

Thankfully, it's only our residential customers that have ever had hap lites deployed to.

The following may help some people; it can mostly be scripted and automated, but always test first!

1. backup existing configuration, including all credentials; also do a full configuration export, just in case
2. copy backups and other files off router temporarily (e.g. with ftp)
3. uninstall _every_ package not necessary for you to maintain a connection to the router…
4. reboot the router
5. upgrade the remaining installed packages to the desired version
6. reboot, upgrade the routerboard firmwire, then reboot again
7. upload any additional desired packages (e.g. any removed in step 3), matching the updated version number from step 5; reboot to install these
8. upload the backup file made in step 1. this will restore any configuration that got deleted because the relevant package were temporarily not installed
9. one final reboot and tou should be good to go.

I just did this to upgrade from 6.47.10 to 6.48.5 and it worked fine. Best of luck!

{One more note: there was a forum post some time ago (1-3 years? - I can’t find the link at the moment) where MikroTik support posted a special .npk file that would run a Linux-side script to delete certain hidden files to free up extra space. Since RouterOS is running on top of Linux, there is a whole filesystem there where we users have zero visibility. Normal RouterOS updates replace they files they know about, but other files could build up over time (e.g. Linux logs, core dumps, corrupted system databases, etc.). As far as I understand, NetInstall erases the _entire Linux filesystem_, taking all that sort of cruft with it, which is why people often say they have success with NetInstall.}

Having the exact same issue trying to upgrade to from 6.47.* 6.48.3. The same issue as the person above, I've got hundreds of these devices deployed in customer's homes and there is just no space left. Even after manually disabling all the unneeded packages, and manually dragging only the required upgrade files(1% space left over) and rebooting then logging in to find the update packages are removed from the files directory, and the system remains at the same version it was before. I've tried the instructions above on multiple hap lites and all of them do the same thing. They will not upgrade.

There is no way we can schedule an on-site for each of these devices installed in the field to intrude into a customer's home so we can sit and fiddle around with their router trying to do a netinstall, that's why we setup remote administration and the dude server to monitor them in the first place, it's not feasible.

If a smaller upgrade package doesn't come, we're gonna be left with no choice but to just junk all these devices and replace them with something else.
Cost wise, it's going to be far cheaper to simply re-deploy with a different device than to have an on-site tech sit and manually fiddle with each of these until we can finally get them to upgrade.

Thankfully, it's only our residential customers that have ever had hap lites deployed to.

I have the exact same problem. Tried 3 different newer versions (stable and long-term) but nothing worked.

Auto-update should copy files to ram if I understand correctly but it doesnt work

I have the exact same problem. Tried 3 different newer versions (stable and long-term) but nothing worked.

Auto-update should copy files to ram if I understand correctly but it doesnt work

It works like that on the more capable devices that have only 16MB of flash but do have a reasonable amount (128MB or more) of RAM.
They implement a "RAMdisk" (the Files area shown outside the "flash" folder) and the new version is downloaded there and installed into the 16MB Flash.

However, for the hAP Lite (and the hAP mini) it is different. These devices have only 32MB of RAM which is not enough to have a RAMdisk, they need most of this space for normal operation.
So there devices do download the new version into flash, and there simply is not enough space to hold an existing installed version and this new download.

These devices realistically are at the end of the road. You can limp by when you install only separate packages (only what you need) instead of the bundled package, but it brings only very little and they will be in trouble again.
The best move is to replace them with a newer device, e.g. for the hAP Lite that would be the hAP ac2 or ac3.
Don't get another "lite" model or other out-dated device with only 64MB of RAM, it will quicky get in the same trouble.

These devices realistically are at the end of the road. You can limp by when you install only separate packages (only what you need) instead of the bundled package, but it brings only very little and they will be in trouble again.
The best move is to replace them with a newer device, e.g. for the hAP Lite that would be the hAP ac2 or ac3.
Don't get another "lite" model or other out-dated device with only 64MB of RAM, it will quicky get in the same trouble.

Ok I understand that it has limited capabilities due to low flash and ram size.
But! Even as a basic wifi AP I can not upgrade it right now without netinstall.

If I remember correctly I might have installed the bundle package when an older upgrade bricked my device...so it was my mistake trying to solve MK's mistake!
To be honest for a basic wifi AP if I need to replace it I will not buy MK again. They should design their devices and firmware better. 16MB flash size in 2021 creating such problems is ridiculous.

The problem is in this case not caused by 16MB flash size, but by the combination of 16MB flash and 32MB RAM.
The larger devices with 16MB flash and more RAM (128MB and more) do not have this problem yet. It could happen in the future.
The problem in this case is not "MikroTik" but the fact you bought the cheapest possible device.
And yes, it is probably not a good idea to buy MikroTik when all you want to have is a cheap and simple access point...
These devices can do much more than that, thus have complex software and are on the limits of their hardware...
(remember exactly the same software is running on a hAP lite as on their largest enterprise router... that is nice when you want to build a toy lab or have some particular wish, but for a generic dumb access point it is not at all necessary)

For now you can just netinstall the device to get uptodate again. Which probably does not matter anyway, as you will not be using all those updated features.