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doneware
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ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:08 pm

RBD52G-5HacD2HnD-TC just popped up on FCC web site.
they refer to it as hap ac^2
it is supported already by 6.40.4, i found no data on cpu, could be one like the Qualcomm IPQ-40xx maybe but neither of them is triple chain: https://www.qualcomm.com/products/ipq4019
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:32 am

Looks good, although it is a pity there seems to be no SFP port.
Dual core arm looks good, WIFI looks good, but would be nice if external antennas could be added.
 
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:03 pm

Probably same processor as in hEX?
 
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:07 pm

What is the fcc id?
 
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:50 pm

LAN, FTTx, Wireless. ISP operator
 
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:05 pm

Probably same processor as in hEX?
that's mmips.
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:41 pm

Indeed...
 
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:05 pm

RBD52G-5HacD2HnD-TC just popped up on FCC web site.
they refer to it as hap ac^2
it is supported already by 6.40.4, i found no data on cpu, could be one like the Qualcomm IPQ-40xx maybe but neither of them is triple chain: https://www.qualcomm.com/products/ipq4019
Why would it be triple chain? Model name suggests 2x2 2.4/5 GHz.

Looks like a no-frills version of the hAP AC to me. No SFP, TC case but still gigabit.

Speaking of ARM goodies, the QCA9984 (4x4 wave2) Routerboard still hasn't surfaced.
 
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:04 am

I suspect a whole slew of new ARM based products will be announced at the EU MUM in April.

Products we know for sure:
cAP ac
hAP ac2
SXTsq ac
LHG 5ac

Products I think we may see, in order of likeliness:

CCR grade router with 64bit ARM processor and multiple "next-gen" interfaces, e.g. SFP28, QSFP28
RB2011 replacement with ARM processor (possibly something along the lines of the CRS109 but with ARM CPU)
Omnitik ac2
mANTBox 15/19 ac2
BaseBox/Netmetal ac2
RB M33 type board with ARM processor
RB M11 type board with ARM processor
wAP ac2
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:34 pm

I suspect a whole slew of new ARM based products will be announced at the EU MUM in April.

Products we know for sure:
cAP ac
hAP ac2
SXTsq ac
LHG 5ac

Products I think we may see, in order of likeliness:

CCR grade router with 64bit ARM processor and multiple "next-gen" interfaces, e.g. SFP28, QSFP28
RB2011 replacement with ARM processor (possibly something along the lines of the CRS109 but with ARM CPU)
Omnitik ac2
mANTBox 15/19 ac2
BaseBox/Netmetal ac2
RB M33 type board with ARM processor
RB M11 type board with ARM processor
wAP ac2


They better start with ROS7 in this year, ARM Products only badly supported, and Wave 2 Chipsets are buggy with ROS6, most Packages are not multicore capable
 
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:30 am

RBD52G-5HacD2HnD-TC just popped up on FCC web site.

Why would it be triple chain? Model name suggests 2x2 2.4/5 GHz.
i mistook the last TC - probably a freudian slip - as the first gen hAP ac was triple chain on both bands.
indeed the last TC must be standing for "tower case" i presume...
#TR0359
 
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:19 pm

They better start with ROS7 in this year, ARM Products only badly supported, and Wave 2 Chipsets are buggy with ROS6
I don't disagree.
most Packages are not multicore capable
Can you give me an example of a package that is not multicore capable ?
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:13 pm

Can you give me an example of a package that is not multicore capable ?
Not package, but BGP, BW test and other ale single core...
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:51 am

Can you give me an example of a package that is not multicore capable ?
Not package, but BGP, BW test and other ale single core...
On the BW test point, I agree it would be great if Mikrotik split the individual tests into seperate threads.

On the BGP/Routing however I disagree.

A few points:
1) Control Plane ≠ Forwarding Plane
While the processing of routing updates happens in a single thread, packet forwarding (the actual movement of your packets) is already multicore capable.

2) BGP is single threaded on Cisco IOS, IOS-XE and IOS-XR as well as on Juniper JunOS and Nokia SRos
The processing of routing updates, and in particular the application of route-filters needs to happen in a "run to completion" matter. That means that running it accross multiple threads will result in unpredictable results. This is why you cant just "make BGP multi-threaded". What can be done is to split each protocol to a seperate process with a central "condcutor" process, this is what Quagga/FRR do with the zebrad process, and what JunOS does with RPD.
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:45 am

Excellent comment, nz_monkey. Thanks for clarifying it for others, much appreciated.
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:09 pm

Excellent comment, nz_monkey. Thanks for clarifying it for others, much appreciated.
@normis is there anything on the horizon that will help offset the shortcomings of current CCRs in terms of BGP performance aside from ROS7/multi-threading?
E.g. a CCR device with a more powerful CPU? Or this is rather in the realm of CHR?
 
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:04 pm

Excellent comment, nz_monkey. Thanks for clarifying it for others, much appreciated.
i've been thinking a bit.
there is a (theoretical) way to make it a "bit more" multithreaded / multicore, but the whole idea will only (some) benefit if there are multiple "heavy" neighbours with lots of updates and/or big amount of prefixes.

there is a bgp backend process, which has all bgp routes (we may refer to this as bgp table) and does all the best path calculation. other threads are doing per neighbour communication, e.g. processing incoming advertisements, applying inbound route filters, etc and sending the final prefix data to the backend.
as they could have "read only" access to the bgp table, the outgoing filters could be also done by the same per-neighbor-threads.

then you could have a 3rd process that is responsible to update the kernel routing tables based on the bgp table, and notifying the backend process in case of kernel routing table changes.
this is similar to the implementation of openbgpd, and would allow to split the "big" bgp elephant onto multiple cores. however there must be some sort of control that locks a certain entry in the bgp table (as it is being modified by the backend) so no half baked data is read out by the other processes - which would introduce other blockers...
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:18 pm

Except what nz_monkey wrote ... we are implementing much faster BGP in v7. Not multi-threaded, because of reasons that were outlined, but much faster.
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:46 pm

Except what nz_monkey wrote ... we are implementing much faster BGP in v7. Not multi-threaded, because of reasons that were outlined, but much faster.
So is that confirmation that you are actively working on v7 and it is not just a pipe dream? I presume it would be needed if the next generation of products are to be sold.
 
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:15 pm

Some parts are ready in v7, some parts are not nearly ready. We can't release only the good parts. Those we can sometimes backport. If we backport enough stuff, there is no more need for v7 though :D
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:32 pm

Lol, so for when can we expect v8 then :lol: ? 2nd '18?
 
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:05 pm

Some parts are ready in v7, some parts are not nearly ready. We can't release only the good parts. Those we can sometimes backport. If we backport enough stuff, there is no more need for v7 though :D
Looks like that if you mention V7 information, you have to deny it immediately. Do you have an internal ban on anything to say?
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:39 pm

CCR grade router with 64bit ARM processor and multiple "next-gen" interfaces, e.g. SFP28, QSFP28
TILE-Mx100 CPU looks like the logical successor the the current Tile-Gx? => http://www.ezchip.com/files/drim__EZchi ... 5_7671.pdf
 
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:54 am

TILE-Mx100 CPU looks like the logical successor the the current Tile-Gx? => http://www.ezchip.com/files/drim__EZchi ... 5_7671.pdf
EZchip was bought out by Mellanox, I am not sure if they are developing the Tilera platform anymore. What we need to high clock speed, a reasonable number of cores, 4 - 16.
 
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:43 am

CCR grade router with 64bit ARM processor and multiple "next-gen" interfaces, e.g. SFP28, QSFP28
TILE-Mx100 CPU looks like the logical successor the the current Tile-Gx? => http://www.ezchip.com/files/drim__EZchi ... 5_7671.pdf
I personally hope that the new CCR's are based on Cavium Octeon TX and TX2.
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:13 pm

hAP ac² - CPU is IPQ-4018 716 MHz
PDF: https://uloz.to/!KboRhNGccV6O/en-datash ... -tower-pdf
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:28 pm

hAP ac² - CPU is IPQ-4018 716 MHz
PDF: https://uloz.to/!KboRhNGccV6O/en-datash ... -tower-pdf
Storage size 16 MB!!!!
yet another 16MB flash device...
 
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:58 pm

Storage size 16 MB!!!!
yet another 16MB flash device...
it may sound lame, but you can pop an usb pen into it and have a storage size according to your needs. you can get real compact ones, or just pick a micro sized microsd adapter from ebay
i know, that
- putting - say - 128meg NAND on the board would not be such a big price increase (but every cent counts in this market segment - only cisco can charge $500 for a freaking 512Mb CF card)
- one cannot boot from this storage, so partitions are a no-go
- will waste the USB port (but be honest, there ain't much use on most usb ports)
- metarouter can't use it (wait, there ain't no metarouter support on arm 'tiks)

as for configuration backup space: well, keeping your backup configs on the very same flash seems to offer no big protection

other than that, i agree. i'd be happier with say 32Megs so "partitioning it" could make some sense.
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:27 am

Wonderful! We started years ago with 256MB then came the 64MB trend to get down to 16MB nowadays when home devices offer GB of nand storage.
What comes next, some cheapo white plastic box with an 8KB EEPROM inside? :lol:

Seriously speaking, I still love and promote Mikrotik devices (mostly because of ROS) but I think they have to reconsider their decisions and product design strategy.
Last edited by Athan on Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:08 am

The hAP ac2 is missing a few features that the hAP ac had:
- PoE out on ether5
- SFP port
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:43 am

The hAP ac2 is missing a few features that the hAP ac had:
- PoE out on ether5
- SFP port
dual chain wireless vs triple chain for hAP ac
 
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:41 am

New wireless hardware without a deep software revision of the NV2 is useless.......
 
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:42 am

It feels more like a replacement/upgrade on the hap ac lite.
 
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:23 am

New wireless hardware without a deep software revision of the NV2 is useless.......
You don´t need NV2 for home AP....
We now testing another Brand and it is a shame for Mikrotik what is possible with
TDMA and 802.11ac
 
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:51 am

New wireless hardware without a deep software revision of the NV2 is useless.......
You don´t need NV2 for home AP....
but given the fact that Mikrotik uses a "single set of software features across the entire routerboard product family" you'll have it anyway.
indeed there is not much real use case in a device that sits on your desktop and used mainly as an internal network hub.
however i guess Mikrotik indends to use the same wireless chipset (albeit one w/o integrated gige switch) for outdoor p2p gear as well, where it makes perfectly sense.
and look, IPQ-4018 is used in RBLDFG-5acD, RBSXTsqG-5acD, RBLHGG-5acD-XL...
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:14 am

@doneware

Yes you are right, and the shame is the Products are on Market, and the Wireless Driver seems to early Beta!
 
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:57 am

It feels more like a replacement/upgrade on the hap ac lite.
that is the right. although most home use cases are just fine with 100Mbps, you can't really compete without GE ports nowadays.
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:14 pm

The hAP ac2 is missing a few features that the hAP ac had:
- PoE out on ether5
- SFP port
by those specifications, it fits between hAP ac lite and hAP ac
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:58 pm

Damn that german shop should be banned for that one 8)
That I am interested most is whether I can run a CAP AC behind another CAP AC powered by the first CAP AC?
 
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:21 pm

Damn that german shop should be banned for that one 8)
That I am interested most is whether I can run a CAP AC behind another CAP AC powered by the first CAP AC?
I´m not the shop owner.....
But i did see this new Stuff today.....

Yes you can do so with CAPac, sum up the needed Power an buy needed Powersupply
 
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:03 am

Yes you can do so with CAPac, sum up the needed Power an buy needed Powersupply
Well, I was not sure because PoE+ and passive PoE is kind of mixed within the datasheet. Is the 48POW https://mikrotik.com/product/48POW the right choice or should both CAP ac devices powered with PoE+?
 
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:19 am

Damn that german shop should be banned for that one 8)
Mikrotik announced the new products at the Philippines MUM, so Meconet are not doing anything wrong.

The hAP ac2 and cAP AC have the same price point at $69USD each, that is very nice.
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:38 pm

I had hoped that the new hAP AC would be a RB750Gr3 with WLAN from the hAP AC... better CPU, more RAM, etc.
 
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:40 pm

What I would love to see is a hAP AC with IPsec Hardware encryption and with a dedicated WPS button. That would make a very capable SOHO device.
 
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:13 am

What I would love to see is a hAP AC with IPsec Hardware encryption and with a dedicated WPS button.
As i see, hAP ac² have table "IPsec test results". It's mean that IPsec hardware encryption already works in this router. Also it have Reset/WPS button and Wave2 wireless chip.
So we have (with comparison with hAP ac):
- SFP port
- PoE Out
- one wireless chain
+ IPsec hardware encryption
+ Wave2 wireless chip (but will it be supported by software?)
+ more powerfull CPU

This product seems more balanced than hAP ac. So i think it will be a new bestseller from mikrotik.
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:45 am

This product seems more balanced than hAP ac. So i think it will be a new bestseller from mikrotik.
I agree this will be a great seller.

Hopefully there is a variation with PoE out on ether5.
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:25 pm

+ Wave2 wireless chip (but will it be supported by software?)
What's new in 6.41 (2017-Dec-22 11:55):
.
.
!) wireless - new driver with initial support for 160 and 80+80 MHz channel width; <- this
#TR0359
 
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:42 pm

What I would love to see is a hAP AC with IPsec Hardware encryption and with a dedicated WPS button.
As i see, hAP ac² have table "IPsec test results". It's mean that IPsec hardware encryption already works in this router. Also it have Reset/WPS button and Wave2 wireless chip.
So we have (with comparison with hAP ac):
- SFP port
- PoE Out
- one wireless chain
+ IPsec hardware encryption
+ Wave2 wireless chip (but will it be supported by software?)
+ more powerfull CPU

This product seems more balanced than hAP ac. So i think it will be a new bestseller from mikrotik.
I am excited to see this model. I am glad it has the same antenna gain as the 1st gen hAP AC. Great work Mikrotik!
 
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Re: ARM based new goodies on the horizon

Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:43 am

i also want to see this device.

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