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yhfung
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hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:43 pm

Someone has removed the word "SOLVED" from the thread title. 2 May 2018
---
As requested by one of Forum member, I add "Not" solved in the heading.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=132648&start=200#p658634
YH 1st May 2018
-------
The WiFi issues on hAP ac^2 for both 2.4GHz and 5GHz were completely resolved. If you are not able to achieve the targets such as 400Mbps (DL/UL) for 5GHz and 100Mbps (DL/UL) for 2.4GHz, the possible cause of the problem(s) may be due to the incompatiblity between hAP ac^2 WiFi chip and your device (such as PC, tablet). You may try to find another device to test the speed. (Please note that you have at least upgrade your hAP ac^2 to v6.43r5 or above).

For the last message, I found that using Intel-based WiFi chip (CHUWI notebook) can give us the least errors and stable speeds.
==================================================================================================================
Latest Firmware Downloading (DL) Performance Short Summary:

Firmware v6.43rc5
File server -> network switch -> WAN of hAP ac^2 -> WLAN 2.4GHz -> PC (MacBook Pro Retina 2015), 55.9 Mbps, Retr=1298 (This can be resolved by selecting 802.11n and 20MHz of bandwidth), please see viewtopic.php?f=7&t=132648&start=150#p657999
File server -> network switch -> WAN of hAP ac^2 -> WLAN 5GHz -> PC (MacBook Pro Retina 2015), 388 Mbps, Retr=286 (Based on the test results, the 5GHz is resolved)

Firmware: v6.43rc3
File server -> network switch -> WAN of hAP ac^2 -> WLAN 2.4GHz -> PC (MacBook Pro Retina 2015), 38.9 Mbps, Retr=1566
File server -> network switch -> WAN of hAP ac^2 -> WLAN 5GHz -> PC (MacBook Pro Retina 2015), 163 Mbps, Retr=5709
File server -> network switch -> WAN of hAP ac^2 -> LAN -> PC (MacBook Pro Retina 2015), 941 Mbps, Retr=29

Firmware: v6.42
2.4GHz DL Performance: 55Mbps, Retr=1481
5GHz DL Performance: 124Mbps, Retr=6418
LAN DL performance: 941Mbps, Retr=0

Firmware (Stock/Factory Firmware: v6.40.5)
2.4GHz DL Performance: 40Mbps, Retr=3541
5GHz DL Performance: 16Mbps, Retr=3628
LAN DL performance: 941Mbps, Retr=0
==================================================================================================================

After having done a number of tests for hAP ac^2 including MikroTik btest.exe, actual file test, iperf3, based on member's experiences and the results obtained. In the sub-sequent illustrations, 5-minute iperf3 -R test is employed. The data path direction is iperf3 sever -> network bridge -> WAN of hAP ac^2 -> WLAN (2.4G and 5G) -> Laptop computer.

For comments on Listings 1 to 6, please click viewtopic.php?f=7&t=132648&start=50#p653894

Listing 1: hAP ac^2 v6.40.5 (stock firmware) (Server->WAN->LAN->Laptop PC)
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bandwidth       Retr
[  4]   0.00-300.00 sec  32.9 GBytes   941 Mbits/sec  324             sender
[  4]   0.00-300.00 sec  32.9 GBytes   941 Mbits/sec                  receiver

Listing 2: hAP ac^2 v6.40.5 (stock firmware) 5G (Server->WAN->WLAN 5G->Laptop PC)
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bandwidth       Retr
[  4]   0.00-300.00 sec   580 MBytes  16.2 Mbits/sec  3541             sender
[  4]   0.00-300.00 sec   578 MBytes  16.2 Mbits/sec                  receiver

Listing 3: hAP ac^2 v6.40.5 (stock firmware) 2.4G (Server->WAN->WLAN 2.4G->Laptop PC)
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bandwidth       Retr
[  4]   0.00-300.00 sec  1.46 GBytes  41.9 Mbits/sec  3628             sender
[  4]   0.00-300.00 sec  1.46 GBytes  41.9 Mbits/sec                  receiver

Listing 4: hAP ac^2 v6.42rc56 (Server->WAN->LAN->Laptop PC)
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bandwidth       Retr
[  4]   0.00-300.00 sec  32.9 GBytes   941 Mbits/sec    0             sender
[  4]   0.00-300.00 sec  32.9 GBytes   941 Mbits/sec                  receiver

Listing 5: hAP ac^2 v6.42rc56 5G (Server->WAN->WLAN 5G->Laptop PC)
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bandwidth       Retr
[  4]   0.00-300.00 sec  4.64 GBytes   133 Mbits/sec  7390             sender
[  4]   0.00-300.00 sec  4.64 GBytes   133 Mbits/sec                  receiver

Listing 6: hAP ac^2 v6.42rc56 2.4G (Server->WAN->WLAN 2.4G->Laptop PC)
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bandwidth       Retr
[  4]   0.00-300.00 sec  1.42 GBytes  40.6 Mbits/sec  3025             sender
[  4]   0.00-300.00 sec  1.42 GBytes  40.5 Mbits/sec                  receiver

---------------------------------------------------------
Recently I bought four pieces of hAP ac^2, I found the performance of WiFi section including both 2.4G and 5G are extremely poor in performance. Based on my past experience of using MikroTik products, the stock firmware seems not prepared for the hAP ac^2 since 1) the Quick Set is "CPE" instead of "Home Dual AP". I believe the stock firmware is used in other products like wAP 60G; and 2) other issues such as memory size, CPU type (IPQ4019), etc were reported. Also there are tones of threads in this forum mentioning the actual file transfer rate is extremely bad.

How comes the WiFi perofmance of hAP ac^2 are so poor?

Let me show you some figures obtained by using MikroTik btest.exe.

Figures 1 and 2 show the 2.4G and 5G WiFi performance. The throughput can be estimated by the area under the curve in blue. In Figure 1, the average file transfer is around 40Mbps for 2G WiFi. In Figure 2, the area under the curve in blue is around 10-20Mbps. Many users of hAP ac^2 have already reported this issue.

As there are tons of complaints reported in this forum, MikroTik started to face this issue by providing a number RC's. Although the recent RC (V6.42RC52) can increase the transfer rate (area under the curve is estimated to be around 90-100Mbps), the file transfer rate is still not able to meet our expectations. We expect the WiFi transfer should be very table at around 400Mbps as we found in 5G ac mode of hAP ac lite tower (max 100Mbps for all ports), as shown in Figure 5.

Does anyone know whether MikroTik are still working on this poor WiFi performance? Since this issue has already driven many MikroTik users to purchase other brand's AC products due to the unexpected and extremely poor WiFi performance.

============
Other problems besides the WiFi issues
1、hAP ac² noisy when using WiFi viewtopic.php?f=2&t=132598&p=651740&hil ... E2#p651465
============
Figure 1: Stock Firmware V6.40.5 2.4G Performance of hAP ac^2
Image

Figure 2: Stock Firmware V6.40.5 5G Performance of hAP ac^2
Image

Figure 3: Firmware V6.42RC52 2.4G Performance of hAP ac^2
Image

Figure 4: Firmware V6.42RC52 5G Performance of hAP ac^2
Image

Figure 5: Firmware V6.40.6 5G Performance of hAP ac lite tower
Image
Last edited by yhfung on Wed May 02, 2018 12:33 pm, edited 28 times in total.
 
deanMKD1
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Re: hAP ac^2---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:22 pm

 
squeeze
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Re: hAP ac^2---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:20 pm

This is 5Ghz on my hAP AC2

http://www.speedtest.net/result/7188352780

We cannot see the image and your speed test information is useless without knowing the expected speed of the connection.
 
mistry7
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Re: hAP ac^2---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:43 pm

Does anyone know whether MikroTik are still working on this poor WiFi performance? Since this issue has already driven many MikroTik users to purchase other brand's AC products due to the unexpected and extremely poor WiFi performance.
Mikrotik has decided to develop its own chipset driver, and thereby turned into a one-way street

that is not even possible fixed, wait for mum this week, but not so much hope
 
deanMKD1
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Re: hAP ac^2---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:20 am

This is 5Ghz on my hAP AC2

http://www.speedtest.net/result/7188352780

We cannot see the image and your speed test information is useless without knowing the expected speed of the connection.
Max speed is that is get from Router. 150/5
 
yhfung
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Re: hAP ac^2---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:27 am


Mikrotik has decided to develop its own chipset driver, and thereby turned into a one-way street
that is not even possible fixed, wait for mum this week, but not so much hope
Many thanks for letting me know the MikroTik planning to resolve this performance issue by redesign their own chipset driver. However this should be provided by the chipset manufacturer Qualcomm https://www.qualcomm.com/products/ipq4018. I do not know whether MikroTik has this ability or not as they are application engineers not chipset driver development engineers.

My point is how comes the performance is so poor that is much below the user's performance expectations—low latency, high throughput and stable transfer rate of at least 300Mbps.
 
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Re: hAP ac^2---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:09 am

Perhaps the problems stem from RouterOS using an extremely outdated kernel (v3.3.5, May 2012). The latest ath10k driver for the IPQ401x wireless chipset requires a newer kernel, so maybe Mikrotik decided to write their own driver for that reason. But there exists a backport project too for older kernels, see https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/use ... /backports - using the official driver will surely provide better results.

There are plenty of other devices using IPQ401x chipset without the terrible wifi performance, presumably they are using newer kernels with the proper ath10k driver. This is hopefully a software problem, Mikrotik need to get a working driver and ideally an updated kernel in place ASAP.
 
yhfung
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Re: hAP ac^2---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:27 am

Does anyone know whether MikroTik are still working on this poor WiFi performance? Since this issue has already driven many MikroTik users to purchase other brand's AC products due to the unexpected and extremely poor WiFi performance.
Mikrotik has decided to develop its own chipset driver, and thereby turned into a one-way street

that is not even possible fixed, wait for mum this week, but not so much hope
mistry7,

Could you please help me to ask the Technical Support Team in MUM Berlin 2018 for this issue if you go to attend it?

My question is "Do MikroTik have any solid plan to rectify the WiFi issue of hap AC^2?

BTW, how did you know they have been working on developing a new device driver by themselves for the hap AC^2 WiFi issue?

Many thanks in advance.
 
yhfung
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Re: hAP ac^2---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:26 am

Perhaps the problems stem from RouterOS using an extremely outdated kernel (v3.3.5, May 2012). The latest ath10k driver for the IPQ401x wireless chipset requires a newer kernel, so maybe Mikrotik decided to write their own driver for that reason. But there exists a backport project too for older kernels, see https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/use ... /backports - using the official driver will surely provide better results.

There are plenty of other devices using IPQ401x chipset without the terrible wifi performance, presumably they are using newer kernels with the proper ath10k driver. This is hopefully a software problem, Mikrotik need to get a working driver and ideally an updated kernel in place ASAP.
Would you like to share any test results using other IPQ401x chipset?

After having done a number of experiments, I obtained the following results for the discussion of software stability issue.

Figures 1-3 show the bandwidth graphs for different initial power starts. Figures 1 and 2 show the similar results which are consistent over the recored period. However the result will be different as shown in Figure 3, which represents the most typical graph for other period of time. What are the information that we can obtain. As seen in Figure 3, the maximum bandwidth is around 360Mbps, it indicate that the WiFi power amplifier performance will not be degraded with respect to time. However the resultant throughput (area under the blue line) will be much lower than the maximum rate 360Mbps. It is around 100Mbps in average. Based on the results of the three figures, it gives us a very clear indicator, the problem comes from the software (V6.42rc52) used in the hAP ac^2. I believe your observation is correct. There are some incompatibility between RouterOS and the chipset driver. The WiFi transmission will be stopped or even corrupted by them (RouterOS and chipset device driver). If the results are flat, the ping time will be very stable. Otherwise, the ping time will be extremely high due to the system is not able to perform the required duty (to provide a very stable data transmission using WiFi). I guess there are some software counter overflows, the system needs to restart the data transmission program to resume the transmission. That is why you see choppy graphs.

The current RC firmware used in hAP ac^2 is definitely required to be modified or rewritten in order to combine the power of RouterOS and IPQ4018 device driver to provide a stable and high throughput at over 400Mbps. Otherwise more and more MikroTik users would not consider to buy hAP ac^2 anymore due to the scrappy firmware.

Figure 1: hAP ac^2 5G performance after powering up for a short period time
Image

Figure 2: hAP ac^2 5G performance for different power cycling
Image

Figure 3: hAP ac^2 5G performance for other power cycling
Image
 
yhfung
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:04 am

In this morning, I checked the performance of my hAP ac^2 WiFi router using MT btest.exe software. Initially it performed very well as shown in Figure 1. It just ran for a few seconds and disconnected suddenly. I re-started the test again and got the results as shown in Figure 2. Based on the results, it indicates if after few hours without any data transmission, hAP ac^2 may become normal. However whenever there are large amount of data traffics, the RouterOS may stop for a while and return to his current normal condition---choppy transmission as shown in Figure 2.

MikroTik support must respond this issue quickly otherwise more and more WiFi will buy other's AP due to unstable and power 5G WiFi transmission. Please not the ping time must be very stable since some game players require the ping time to be very short and very stable.


Figure 1: Very good results but disconnected in a few seconds.
Image

Figure 2: Back to the general condition for another attempt after disconnection.
Image
 
jarda
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:04 pm

I second the problematic tx performace of RBD52G. It is not able to keep higher moduation rates or two tx channels for a while, fastly jumping down. Even with 6.42rc52 it provides floating tx with real data transfer between 20-80Mbps. Looks like really not finished yet. I am starting to regret...
 
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:24 pm

Hey Mikrotik!

WHEN will this issue be fixed?
Or should I initiate a refund process?
 
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:10 pm

Has anyone managed to get OpenWRT booted on it to compare wifi performance?
 
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:23 pm

All those tests are made with the same wireless frequency?
 
yhfung
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:40 pm

I am sure but they are preset to auto mode. I can use fixed frequency if you want. I use WiFi analyzer to confirm there are no interference among other 5G frequency.

You meant I need to choose different frequency to seek for higher stability, right?
 
nemoforum
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:23 pm

All those tests are made with the same wireless frequency?
Another tests with different frequencies: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=132576#p652089
As required here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=132576#p652015

There are NO ANY OTHER 5 GHz network neighbors!
 
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:13 pm

Well as MikroTik told us, *.rc releases are for testing purposes, not for production. One of my colleagues owns a Huawei Mate phone and was able to connect to wAP ac without any problems with earlier 6.42rc releases. ~3 weeks ago he showed me that he cannot connect anymore. Also with current rc52 I cannot find any information about his logging attempts. Tested with WPA2 PSK, WPA enterprise and unprotected SSID.

Back to topic: It would be great, If you post your benchmarks with 6.40.7 and 6.41.3.
 
yhfung
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:08 am

Since the factory version is v6.40.5, I expected the bug fixed version of v6.40.7 should clean the bugs in the previous version. As seen in the following figure, the 5G WiFi results are terribly bad. The average speed is around 25Mbps, which is much below our expectation of 500Mbps for ac products. As a result, it is no point to test any bug fixed version of firmware until the official release v6.42.

Image
 
upower3
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:39 am

Is this the constant problem on this model? Plan to buy one but see no point in it if it performs so bad.

Really bad news for me!
 
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:52 am

CAP AC is no better for me either. I need to pick up a different access point in the short term.
 
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:56 am

CAP AC is no better for me either. I need to pick up a different access point in the short term.
Looks like MT better add Ubnt AP controller into ROS, so everyone will be happy.
 
yhfung
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:47 am

CAP AC is no better for me either. I need to pick up a different access point in the short term.
Since both products (cAP ac and hAP ac^2) appear almost at the same time with the same chipset and there are tons of complaints about the 5G wifi poor performance, MikroTik Engineering Team has to take immediate action to resolve this issue otherwise more and more MikroTik users planning to buy other RELIABLE brands for their APs.
Last edited by yhfung on Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Sheriff1972
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:43 am

I find it ironic that i, as a home user, was looking to get away from the flakey performance of consumer grade gear, and asked MT support what they would recommend. They suggested an RB3011 and CAP AC, which i bought. RB3011 has port flapping issues when mixing fast internet and gigabit on the same switch chip, and the CAP AC just seems to to be neurotic...

I can only hope the the mother of all updates will resolve these issues.

Perhaps a little more testing prior to launch MT?
 
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:50 am

Perhaps a little more testing prior to launch MT?
I'd prefer to see MT has a bigger team so they have more hands and brains. As of today, great plans and promises are too optimistic. May they want to sell 10G switches or maybe 40g or 100g devices but most customers won't trust them based on low end devices impression.
And, MT wifi is something that's under question on many sites and discussion boards so this is huge negative to MT.
 
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:24 pm

In my experience, the performance varies greatly depending on the device which connects to the router. I've tried a couple of devices
- ASUS netbook E203NA, 1 stream, Atheros QCA8377
- Samsung cellphone S3neo G903, 1 stream
- Samsung tablet S2 T715, 2 streams
a 5GHz, using the test suites
- Kai Uwe Rommel's netio (PC only)
- iperf3
- Tamosoft Throuput Test
against access points
- Mikrotik hAPac2
- AVM Fritz!box 6490

The results are pretty consistent. With the netbook I get stable throughputs in all cases. With the Androids however only the results on the AVM connections are stable while the Mikrotik connections are not.
 
prx
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:45 pm

  1. Netbook to Mikrotik:
    Netbook-Mikrotik.PNG
  2. Netbook to AVM:
    Netbook-AVM.PNG
  3. Smartphone to Mikrotik:
    Handy-Mikrotik.png
  4. Smartphone to AVM:
    Handy-AVM.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
 
yhfung
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:04 pm

............
Back to topic: It would be great, If you post your benchmarks with 6.40.7 and 6.41.3.
Results are already uploaded for 6.40.7. The point is how comes the stock firmware (or production firmware) v6.40.5 performs so badly and released to the market for sales! I had been a quality control and certification engineer for many years, it is unbelievable for MikroTik to release these products for sales. The more MikroTik sell this product to the market, the more complaints MikroTik will receive from the world. I really hope that the MikroTik Engineering Team can resolve this issue as soon as possible.
 
yhfung
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:52 pm

Today, I found that there is a new test candidate available for evaluation. I update the firmware in my hAP ac^2 and the following results as shown in Figures 1 and 2.

It seems that there is not much speed improvement since v6.42r52. The 5G transmission rate, as shown in Figure 2, looks very terrible as it goes up and down. The average speed is around 120Mbps, which is much below any other's brand ac products. Our user expectation, it keeps at a steady rate of 500Mbps. I am wondering whether the MikroTik Engineering Team is aware of these problems?

Figure 1: 2.4G WiFi Performance
Image

Figure 2: 5G WiFi Performance
Image
 
upower3
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:02 pm

looks very terrible as it goes up and down.
Just to be honest: if you have tuned up your radio well so the AP won't mess up things due to radio picture around? Fankly I don't know much on how to tune radio in latest fw and ros, maybe MT team come here to give some directions? After all if the ROS devices are tested there should be so basic settings that are used to do the tests (and I suspect tests are considered ok)?

Sad to know basic line TP-Link and D-Link APs are all performs at least better that MT APs, both on 2.4 and 5 band.
 
nemoforum
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:39 pm

Intel ac 8260 - the same issue.
Intel ac 7260 - the same issue.

Mikrotik?
 
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:44 pm

Interesting issue!

Has anyone tried connecting two hAP AC2's to each other and seeing what throughput is that way? That way it should not have any incompatibility issues.

p.s. Always use iperf3 to test through the device, never use the performance test on the device itself because it will load the CPU unrealistically. Also iperf3 will allow you to test several things such as small and big blocks, multiple streams, forward or reverse to further diagnose what's going on.
p.p.s. Also no internet based speedtest.
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:24 am

Same problem here - both bands speed is very poor - also in v6.42rc56
Intel ac 8265

Same laptop connected to RB922UAGS-5HPacD gives rock-stable 300mbps
 
squeeze
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:36 am

You can test as reliably as iperf3 (though without the range of options) using the Windows btest.exe application or Bandwidth Test on other router devices, as long as you run it from two devices through the router being tested.

Btest actually has functionality iperf3 does not, though iperf2 has: you can test duplex simultaneous throughput with the "Both" setting. In iperf2 it would be the "-d" option.
Last edited by squeeze on Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
yhfung
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:32 am

Interesting issue!

Has anyone tried connecting two hAP AC2's to each other and seeing what throughput is that way? That way it should not have any incompatibility issues.

p.s. Always use iperf3 to test through the device, never use the performance test on the device itself because it will load the CPU unrealistically. Also iperf3 will allow you to test several things such as small and big blocks, multiple streams, forward or reverse to further diagnose what's going on.
p.p.s. Also no internet based speedtest.
I have carried many tests involving different methods, for instance iperf3, ping, MikroTik BTest, actual final file transfer test. Based on the results, I obtained the following conclusions:

1. iperf3 is good but it always provides the maximum bandwidth of the channel to be under test. (If the ping time is stable and short, then the figure can be treated as the throughput of the data link otherwise it is not).

2. ping is a very simple to test the latency between two points but it does not provide the throughput and bandwidth of the data link.

3. Actual file transfer test which provides the resultant outcome due to many uncertainties. This is the yard stick of user test. For general users, they do not care how good the iperf3 and ping tests. They are only interested in the actual file transfer rate. In simplicity,

4. MikroTik BTest can provide a quick simple tool to cover the above three methods. (BTest's results may be a little bit lower than that of iperf3). The area under the curve is the throughput of the data link. If there are many spikes or stops (resulted in large latency in ping test) during the measurements, the data link is very badly. For a good data link, the rate should be stable and high without any sudden stops.

YH
 
jarda
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:35 am

Has anyone sent email to support? What was the answer?
 
yhfung
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:49 am

Has anyone sent email to support? What was the answer?
No for me!

I thought they have seen it but I deliberately sent one just a few minutes ago.

YH
 
yhfung
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:56 am

Since I have done a number of tests on hAP ac^2 and got some findings for sharing.

Let R1 be the hAP ac^2

Test 1. Laptop -> LAN -> Bridge of R1 -> WAN -> External BTest server: Performance very good
Test 2. Laptop -> wireless -> Bridge of R1 -> External BTest server: Performance very bad
Test 3. Laptop -> LAN - Bridge of R1 -> Internal BTest server: Performance very good
Test 4. Laptop -> wireless -> Bridge of R1 -> Internal BTest server: Performance good

MikroTik router performs very well. However when it works with internal APs, problems comes!!! Based on the above observation, if hAP ac^2 is configured as an AP without routing and connected to a MikroTik router, I guess the performance would be acceptable. As after Test 4, I carried out another test by connecting an NAS to one of LAN ports of hAP ac^2. I carried out the actual file internal transfer test and found the actual file transfer rate could reach AT LEAST 380Mbps without any problem.

Based on the above findings, the problem comes from the link between the data of APs and the routing block to the external interface WAN port.

If the hAP ac^2 is configured as an AP, it should work very well.

YH
 
nemoforum
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:12 am

Has anyone sent email to support? What was the answer?
Ha-ha-ha!
Mikrotik's support is the worst one I've ever contacted!
I contacted Mikrotik via email on 29 March.
Some of the answers:
For faster support we suggest to contact the company, where you bought the device.
As initial/main support is provided by them.
Sergejs B.
General support rules are listed here,
https://mikrotik.com/support
1) If you have bought a RouterOS license or a RouterBOARD product, limited support service might be provided by e-mail for 30 days after the purchase by support@mikrotik.com. Contact your distributor for help and support, if device is not purchased from MikroTik directly.
If you found hardware/software issue, we might help, when device is not purchased from us. However for faster support we encourage you to contact seller.
Sergejs B.
I got nothing related to:
- the issue confirmation
- someone started working on the issue
- the issue resolution ETA

I bought hAP ac2 because of this issue:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=102908&start=50#p645558
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=102908&start=50#p645578
and got another one!
 
upower3
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:30 am

Mikrotik's support is the worst one I've ever contacted!
Looks like the company won't pay much attention on that, still thinking their devices are priced not that high so people will buy it anyway. But noone care for the overall image of their devices for partners who actually sell their devices to end-users.

Imagine how you feel when you go to pretty big company plan to sell ~150 routers for their company VPN network and then you hear from some tech guy: "Hey, I know their routers are decent good, but I totally disappointed with my home Mikrotik AP so let's skip this brand just to be on the safe side so we won't sit down with 150 of semi-working units one day". And yes, noone considered CCRs after these words, too.

Partners on their side won't fix chipset problem but only recommend to change device ("you know office wifi is not MT's primary business") for they can't say anything better.

I suspect D-Link can behave like this (remember DES-3028 story, where hash conflict happens all the time, that was a h/w problem and they won't change them blaming this is not D-Link problem but chipset problem? Here is the link http://xcme.blogspot.ru/2014/11/hash.html I looked up quickly, it is in Russian but surely you can translate it with Google Translator or something https://translate.google.ru/translate?s ... edit-text=), but for MT this is ridiculous!
 
jarda
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:47 am

Has anyone sent email to support? What was the answer?
[Ticket#2018041022003281] created.
 
squeeze
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:34 pm

Based on the above findings, the problem comes from the link between the data of APs and the routing block to the external interface WAN port.

If the hAP ac^2 is configured as an AP, it should work very well.

So, it is a LAN-WAN routing issue. Can I confirm with all on here who have posted data across the WAN interface:

  • only from either a default firewall, bridge filter and queues configuration or very minimal firewall configuration, i.e. less than 25 filter rules
  • if expecting maximum throughput performance you are using clients with the most advanced WiFi radios and strong CPUs, e.g. MacBook pros or PCIe adapters?


You should always state the clients you are using for testing and if you are doing a simultaneous/duplex transfer test. Duplex tests are much tougher on the router than single direction tests of upload and download.
 
yhfung
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:12 pm

All the testes carried out are for downloading only and use BTest.exe on MacBook Pro via WINE. If the downloading results are satisfactory, I shall continue to work with other tests on uploading side.

YH
 
yhfung
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:38 pm

My assumption stated in post #37 viewtopic.php?f=7&t=132648&sid=9c297b1e ... f8#p653321 is not as good as I expected.

Although the test for the internal btest server was good, as show in Figure 1, I was not able to obtain satisfied file download test as shown in Figure2 when I configured hAP ac^2 as an AP. I do believe cAP ac does have the same problems as I have in hAP ac^2.

Figure 3 shows the general test setup for most of results presents in this thread.

Figure 1: Internal btest server result
Image

Figure 2: File download test
Image

Figure 3: Test Setup for hAP ac^2
Image

YH
 
nemoforum
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:06 pm

So, it is a LAN-WAN routing issue. Can I confirm with all on here who have posted data across the WAN interface:
Nope, pls check viewtopic.php?f=2&t=132576
 
squeeze
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:30 pm

Nope, pls check viewtopic.php?f=2&t=132576
I meant WLAN<->WAN (not Ethernet LAN<->WAN). Thank you for the clarification.
 
mistry7
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:57 pm

I do not know what to complain about....
Mikrotik, the back Porting hero’s, everything runs fine and smooth or not?

they have not heard the bang here yet, because there are no ears around.

After 4 years of waiting for missing features in ac Hardware, there is no hope, they aren’t doing real business in WiFi anymore, only halfhearted. For low end market


the bigger problem is that they do not admit it....

If you have time wait for Ros 7, all problems get fixed, believe it or not

no further tests needed
 
icsterm
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:33 pm

I find the same poor performance in 5G on the hAP ac^2, I have 1Gbps WAN connection but the 5G connection on AC/80MHz at one metter from the router only throughputs at about 220Mbps download and 270Mbps upload. If I connect a similar priced Asus RT-AC1200G+, use same wireless settings as on the hAP ac^2, the download and upload speeds are almost double, ~500Mbps average on both download and upload.

Tests were done using a Intel 7260 2x2 card.

The connection to the Asus reports 860Mbps link speed on the card, but the connection to the hAP ac^2 jumps somewhere in the 400-700 range, at one metter from the router (direct line of sight).

Hope Mikrotik fixes these issues, I was expecting better performance.

ROS7 can't wait that long....
 
Swordforthelord
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:40 pm


Hope Mikrotik fixes these issues, I was expecting better performance.
I hope they do too but it's always unsettling when customers report issues and Mikrotik is dead silent. To me it's an indication that they are aware of the issue and are also aware they may not be able to fix it. When there are this many threads and this many people complaining and MT doesn't even respond, even just to say that they're're working on it...that's bad.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 
Andi9
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:41 pm

I've send my two hab2 back to the dealer.

It was quite simplr to test. Equal if I configured the hap2 as ap or as router the Downloadspeed over wireless was 20 percent from the possible rate.(stable version and RC)

I've discontented the hab2 and connect a amplifi in bridgemode and have with the same download server over my laptop (Intel Wlan card) full speed.

I know that's no btest or exactly science, but it is the thing I use for.

I'm very disappointed with the behaviour from Microtik, so that I sell my rb750 too and buy a edge router with two uac AP's.

Andi




 
jarda
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Re: hAP ac^2 Problems---Extremely Poor Performance found in 2.4G and 5G WiFi

Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:56 pm

Mikrotik requested details, tests and supouts. I am going to provide them. You all should do the same if you would like to get it repaired...

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