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anaks
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802.11r/k, Band Steering

Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:57 pm

Good day! There is a big request to developers - it is very necessary to introduce 802.11 r/k and Band Steering. Customers often turn to the terms of reference, in which one of the requirements is the support of 802.11 r/k + Band Steering. Customers often have to meet the 802.11 r/k support requirement in their technical specifications . For this reason, to my great regret, recently we have to use the equipment of other manufacturers ;-( . In particular, low-cost solutions implemented in support: Wive-NG (https://wi-cat.ru , an example of a product -
https://shop.nag.ru/catalog/00009.Bespr ... E-AP2#desc), Edimax Pro and other.
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hellobello25
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Re: 802.11r/k, Band Steering

Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:04 am

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muetzekoeln
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Re: 802.11r/k, Band Steering

Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:21 am

 
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cdiedrich
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Re: 802.11r/k, Band Steering

Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:57 am

I asked Support mid-July if there are mid-term (i.e. within a year) plans to implement k/r/v roaming and band steering.
The reply was that there's 'no precise schedule'.
That being said, I'm currently replacing a couple of CAPsMAN sites with Meraki. Really a bummer.
-Chris
Christopher Diedrich
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pe1chl
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Re: 802.11r/k, Band Steering

Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:13 pm

I hope you will get troublefree operation from your network.
I operate a WiFi network from another competitor and I find that whenever you enable features like fast roaming, band steering etc you will always have some devices that have problems.
Not an issue when you have a controlled environment (e.g. some warehouse wifi network serving handscanners, or a corporate network with only certified laptops and enterprise-grade mobile devices) but in the typical "bring your own device" guest wifi scenario it is not workable, because there is no direct feedback in case of problems.
I had to disable all those options to avoid issues like "no connection at all", "lost connection when roaming until manually re-establishing it".
 
hellobello25
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Re: 802.11r/k, Band Steering

Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:20 am

If there is no problem, you could activate it. Or disable in case of problems. But it does not exist at all!
 
pe1chl
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Re: 802.11r/k, Band Steering

Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:11 am

The point is that unless it is a small network for e.g. your family house or you know exactly which types of devices are on it, so you can test them all, there is no way to know that there are problems!
 
ste
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Re: 802.11r/k, Band Steering

Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:50 pm

I hope you will get troublefree operation from your network.
I operate a WiFi network from another competitor and I find that whenever you enable features like fast roaming, band steering etc you will always have some devices that have problems.
Not an issue when you have a controlled environment (e.g. some warehouse wifi network serving handscanners, or a corporate network with only certified laptops and enterprise-grade mobile devices) but in the typical "bring your own device" guest wifi scenario it is not workable, because there is no direct feedback in case of problems.
I had to disable all those options to avoid issues like "no connection at all", "lost connection when roaming until manually re-establishing it".
Most used internetboxes for home in Germany do this (including their repeaters). Just works. I roam through my house and garden.
 
pe1chl
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Re: 802.11r/k, Band Steering

Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:19 pm

It depends on what you have. I had issues with some older Samsung phones, with a HP wireless printer, and with some models of Microsoft Surface laptops.
All of them appear to be "known problems that aren't going to be fixed by their manufacturer" when I search the internet for it.
Of course when you have none of these devices, you can be happily using those features. But on a large guest network like ours (~ 1600 clients of which ~500 are online) there are AWAYS going to be affected devices, and not everyone with "strange problems with the WiFi" is going to walk by and show it. I found most of them only by accident.
 
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cdiedrich
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Re: 802.11r/k, Band Steering

Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:37 pm

I have to agree, pe1chl.
But the density of devices with problems drops constantly. I build temporary wireless networks with tens of thousands of concurrent clients on a very regular basis - the last time I had problems with clients with k/r/v was in August 2017 (that was a Meru/Fortinet system). Clients with problems were your mentioned older Samsung phones and iPhones with iOS 10 or older - and ithe first release of OS 11.
The last time I've built a really huge network was in April this year and we didn't see any problem, the system was a mix of Meru/Fortinet, Everest and Meraki. Not a single issue.
-Chris
Christopher Diedrich
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Basel, Switzerland
Bremen, Germany

There are 10 types of people: Those who understand binary and those who don't.
There are two types of people: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
 
heidarren
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Re: 802.11r/k, Band Steering

Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:44 pm

It's funny to see us discussing something that WE DON’T HAVE, while other users from other vendors are enjoying the benefits of it

I expect to see those Apple forums will do the same way to discuss something like “Why we don’t need 5G”
 
heidarren
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Re: 802.11r/k, Band Steering

Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:59 pm

Simple logic, if MikroTik selling 2 models with exactly same specs but 1 of it with k/v/r, selling at the same price, which 1 will you choose?
 
pe1chl
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Re: 802.11r/k, Band Steering

Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:32 pm

It's funny to see us discussing something that WE DON’T HAVE, while other users from other vendors are enjoying the benefits of it
As I wrote, I have experience with another manufacturer (in the same market segment) who DOES have these options, but I am not enjoying the benefits! I have them all turned OFF.
 
pe1chl
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Re: 802.11r/k, Band Steering

Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:40 pm

I have to agree, pe1chl.
But the density of devices with problems drops constantly. I build temporary wireless networks with tens of thousands of concurrent clients on a very regular basis - the last time I had problems with clients with k/r/v was in August 2017 (that was a Meru/Fortinet system).
On the other manufacturer's forum I have tried to get clear if the current problems are implementation problems that potentially could be fixed in the future, or if they are inherent problems in the standards and the implementation in the older clients, that can never be fixed.
I don't rule out completely that other manufacturers have found workarounds for those problems so it at least works acceptably.
Of course I understand that when an older device does not implement those protocols it cannot benefit from them, but at least these clients should be able to use the network as if these options were not enabled.
Until this is fixed, I cannot enable it because we cannot live with a part of the users who do not have connectivity even when their devices are old.
I have to wait until either those older devices have completely gone away (which may take 10 years for things like a HP wireless printer) or some workaround is implemented.

I expect that when MikroTik starts implementing the same things (largely from the same codebase) they will have similar issues for some time.
And as can be seen in the 802.11d discussion ("Country code") it looks like MikroTik does not consider working around other people's bugs a priority.
 
muetzekoeln
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Re: 802.11r/k, Band Steering

Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:02 pm

I expect that when MikroTik starts implementing the same things (largely from the same codebase) they will have similar issues for some time.
I agree with you. When implementing new features there will pop up new problems. Every time! I follow forums about AVM Fritzbox hardware. There are problems with band steering since they first implemented it in a beta OS version.

And as can be seen in the 802.11d discussion ("Country code") it looks like MikroTik does not consider working around other people's bugs a priority.
If this is true they should stop any developement! There will always be problems with foreign vendors hardware in a network. Wired or wireless.
 
pe1chl
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Re: 802.11r/k, Band Steering

Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:12 pm

And as can be seen in the 802.11d discussion ("Country code") it looks like MikroTik does not consider working around other people's bugs a priority.
If this is true they should stop any developement! There will always be problems with foreign vendors hardware in a network. Wired or wireless.
I agree that when interworking causes problems one should not only point to the other side.
However, it can be that those companies where an AP costs 10 times as much and you still have to pay for a "controller license" and pay yearly for a "support contract" have more resources to burn on investigating problem cases and implementing workarounds than the "we are much cheaper but offer the same thing" camp where MikroTik and our current WiFi equipment manufacturer are.

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