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manuzoli
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60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:25 pm

Hey folks.
We need to replace one of our 5Ghz Links due to high noise. We would like to switch to 60 Ghz. The Link is 2.4km and has 600 meters of altitude change.
We don’t need a Gigabit. 100 mbits would be plenty. Has anyone any experience if this is even possible?
We got about 15% less Air preassure up here - so there should be 15% less attenuation!?
 
mistry7
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:39 pm

Hi,

good question, would be hard at this distance.
i wish Mikrotik release some more technical Information for LHG and WAP60.
An / or include it in the wireless link calculator
 
ivicask
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:33 pm

Hey folks.
We need to replace one of our 5Ghz Links due to high noise. We would like to switch to 60 Ghz. The Link is 2.4km and has 600 meters of altitude change.
We don’t need a Gigabit. 100 mbits would be plenty. Has anyone any experience if this is even possible?
We got about 15% less Air preassure up here - so there should be 15% less attenuation!?
I wonder the same, tho LHG60 supposed to make 2gb aggregate links 1500+ meters, so i guess 2.5km should still give more than plenty of speed for what you need.(just guessing)
 
ste
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:31 pm

Hey folks.
We need to replace one of our 5Ghz Links due to high noise. We would like to switch to 60 Ghz. The Link is 2.4km and has 600 meters of altitude change.
We don’t need a Gigabit. 100 mbits would be plenty. Has anyone any experience if this is even possible?
We got about 15% less Air preassure up here - so there should be 15% less attenuation!?
I wonder the same, tho LHG60 supposed to make 2gb aggregate links 1500+ meters, so i guess 2.5km should still give more than plenty of speed for what you need.(just guessing)
Even 1500 is very long for a reliable 60GHz link. 2.5 is nothing I even would try. I would go licensed at this distances. Dependent on country you dont pay much license cost for a 100MBit link as you need only a small channel. Look e.g. for an older Gear like SAF Lumina. You also might do 24GHz/100MBit with a SAF Freemile.
 
mistry7
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:06 pm

Hey folks.
We need to replace one of our 5Ghz Links due to high noise. We would like to switch to 60 Ghz. The Link is 2.4km and has 600 meters of altitude change.
We don’t need a Gigabit. 100 mbits would be plenty. Has anyone any experience if this is even possible?
We got about 15% less Air preassure up here - so there should be 15% less attenuation!?
I wonder the same, tho LHG60 supposed to make 2gb aggregate links 1500+ meters, so i guess 2.5km should still give more than plenty of speed for what you need.(just guessing)
Even 1500 is very long for a reliable 60GHz link. 2.5 is nothing I even would try. I would go licensed at this distances. Dependent on country you dont pay much license cost for a 100MBit link as you need only a small channel. Look e.g. for an older Gear like SAF Lumina. You also might do 24GHz/100MBit with a SAF Freemile.

We will give mimosa B24 a try../
 
antonsb
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:12 am

We are still working on distance improvements - but we had made connections even on 2.4 km distances (weather condition needs to be excellent and it works only on 4th channel).
Currently we recommend to stick to 1.5km for stability reasons.
 
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:29 am

Reasonable edge by last tests is 2km once you use antennas with gain 40+ dBi.
Frequency microwave transvertors, design, development, manufacture
http://Pojitko.cz
 
ntblade
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:18 pm

We have a requirement for a 1.66km link. Would this be possible?

Thanks
 
mistry7
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:32 pm

We have a requirement for a 1.66km link. Would this be possible?

Thanks
depends on the weather
 
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manuzoli
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:40 pm

Once we get hand on a pair of radios we will try. We just can‘t order any at the moment.
 
mistry7
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:32 pm

I have 6 pairs in Backorder, 2 in Poland, 4 in Germany over all Distribution, hopefully get one quick
 
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manuzoli
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:41 pm

@mikrotik: any presskits available? I could provide some great shots in an alpine setup ;)
 
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sergejs
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:00 pm

@mikrotik: any presskits available? I could provide some great shots in an alpine setup ;)
Manuzoli,
It would be great to get pictures from you. We will include them to the next public newsletter.
 
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manuzoli
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:02 pm

@mikrotik: any presskits available? I could provide some great shots in an alpine setup ;)
Manuzoli,
It would be great to get pictures from you. We will include them to the next public newsletter.
Sounds good. Once I am able to order some - I'll send you pics.
I am crossing fingers they will cover the distance.
 
mistry7
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:31 pm

@mikrotik: any presskits available? I could provide some great shots in an alpine setup ;)
Manuzoli,
It would be great to get pictures from you. We will include them to the next public newsletter.
Sounds good. Once I am able to order some - I'll send you pics.
I am crossing fingers they will cover the distance.
not the cheapest one, but they have the first one i seen in real life....
https://www.mikrotik-shop.de/Komplettsy ... :2256.html

i will get them tomorrow
 
ozar
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:39 am

We have a requirement for a 1.66km link. Would this be possible?

Thanks
I have the same question as ntblade. I am setting up a 1.65km link and am wondering if this will be possible with the LHGG-60ad? If it is possible what sort of speeds should I expect (I know it depends on a lot of variables, but an estimate would be great)? Also, I am wondering what dBi antenna the LHGG-60ad uses? I can't seem to find that information anywhere, I assume it is 24.5dBi?

Kind regards,
From Ozar.
 
OKNET
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:48 pm

Is it an unobstructed path ?

2,4Km link is a very short distance for clear path , unless 60GHz devices have some intrinsic limitation (they are 802.11ad devices).....
 
ste
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:57 pm

Is it an unobstructed path ?

2,4Km link is a very short distance for clear path , unless 60GHz devices has some intrinsic limitation.....
You should read :-). Yes there is some intrinsic limitation with this frequency. 2,4km is very long for 60GHz.

https://youtu.be/1ModU9fK5bo

Read the sentences loud where he talks about the amount of interruptions with rain on a 1km link.
So yes MT is right with its distances but if you serve customers with such a link you should stay way below 1km or do a backup link with fast failover.

I would like to see some 99.995% calculations for Riga ;-).
 
OKNET
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:34 pm

I wonder how many distortion reflections and attenuation has 1Km path in between modern buildings , and with bad weather conditions....

Probably something better can be expected in a longer unobstructed path (i.e. mountain to mountain , mountain to lowland, skyscrape to mountain etc...)

manuzoli said they have 600m difference level , but not path info

24Ghz can surely also be a good choice
 
ste
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:20 pm

I wonder how many distortion reflections and attenuation has 1Km path in between modern buildings , and with bad weather conditions....

Probably something better can be expected in a longer unobstructed path (i.e. mountain to mountain , mountain to lowland, skyscrape to mountain etc...)

manuzoli said they have 600m difference level , but not path info

24Ghz can surely also be a good choice

In ETSI only 100mW EIRP for 24GHz ...
 
Gerlach76
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:15 pm

we have installed our first LHG 60 ghz link and we are very surprised: 1809.48m and we get 2.3Gbps..WOW
1800m 2.3Gbps.png
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cohprog
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:39 pm

we have installed our first LHG 60 ghz link and we are very surprised: 1809.48m and we get 2.3Gbps..WOW1800m 2.3Gbps.png
And -65 RSSI.... now wait for a little rain and see what happen.
 
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cohprog
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:50 pm

Is it an unobstructed path ?

2,4Km link is a very short distance for clear path , unless 60GHz devices have some intrinsic limitation (they are 802.11ad devices).....
60Ghz is right in the oxygen absorption band. Which mean that the signal will drop very fast with distance. 2.5Km is very long range for 60Ghz. That's one of the drawback of 60Ghz and one of the the benefit: There is nearly no interferences between links on the same channel and in the same area as their signals are be absorbed.

There is also a significant signal lose when raining especially over a few hundred meters. Less than with 24Ghz but still very pretty big. At 1Km+, you can easely lose 10 to 20 dbm during heavy rain and it only get worse with longer distances so if you don't have plenty of margin to begin with...
 
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:55 pm

I would go licensed at this distances. Dependent on country you dont pay much license cost for a 100MBit link as you need only a small channel. Look e.g. for an older Gear like SAF Lumina. You also might do 24GHz/100MBit with a SAF Freemile.
Or Ubiquiti AF24 (1.4Gbps) or AF24HD (2Gps). 24Ghz is unlicensed and they can do longer distance easely. Problem with the 24Ghz is that there is only 2 channels available (and it's more expensive).
 
MulderSk
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:55 am

Now rain and one side not adjust work ok
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MulderSk
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:07 am

right now rain , normal rain has no effect only very very hard rain was link down 2min
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server8
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:08 am

MulderSk are you using a couple of "normal" LHG60?
 
MulderSk
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:53 pm

MulderSk are you using a couple of "normal" LHG60?
yes
 
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normis
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:23 am

Congrats, nice results MulderSk!
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
Gerlach76
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:35 pm

it would be nice to have a better mounting kit, we tested both the orginal and the pro there must be a more professional kit with screws for fine adjustment
 
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normis
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:28 pm

Not really needed, the beamforming antenna adjusts the beam, and result is identical, even if the antenna is slightly misaligned.
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
ste
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:07 pm

Not really needed, the beamforming antenna adjusts the beam, and result is identical, even if the antenna is slightly misaligned.
Did an alignment today (750m). It was easier to do it optical than follow the directions of the LEDs/Interface (they where a bit misleading). The mount angle is no perfect 90 degree so it could not be used to look along. Best is to go 3m behind the antenna and look through it to the target. Beeing a mesh antenna helps as you could look through.
 
antonsb
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:58 am

LEDs currently are in fact miss-leading - we will address this in future releases.
 
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:57 pm

i am wonder why nobody ask about a LHG XL60 antenna
So, a 2,5km link would be easily possible :D
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server8
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:02 am

+1 :-)
i am wonder why nobody ask about a LHG XL60 antenna
So, a 2,5km link would be easily possible :D
 
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Re: 60Ghz 2.4km - possible?

Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:39 am

Wire Dish 60 GHz XL + 5Ghz BackUp
The LHG 60 PCBA has a 5Ghz Wifi part

when you make LHG 60 XL + 5GHz ?

LHG 391 mm
LHG XL 550 mm

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