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2jarek
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:36 pm

@2jAREK; Your screenshots are not giving good info. What are the RTS/CTS settings in both 802.11n or 802.11ac? What are signal strengths of the clients.

..
LOOK CLOSER NV2+20Mhz+802.11N + ARM CLIENTS. RTS/CTS settings & HW retries without meaning FOR NV2 mode.

I have many 802.11AC sites not NV2. But pure AC works only fort short distance & good signals. If u have noise & 5 km links + p2mp 20 clients pure 802.1n/AC don't works no matter RTC/CTS & PREAMBLE & HW protection threshold 0 u SET just disconnects all time.
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WirelessRudy
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:10 am

LOOK CLOSER NV2+20Mhz+802.11N + ARM CLIENTS. RTS/CTS settings & HW retries without meaning FOR NV2 mode.

I have many 802.11AC sites not NV2. But pure AC works only fort short distance & good signals. If u have noise & 5 km links + p2mp 20 clients pure 802.1n/AC don't works no matter RTC/CTS & PREAMBLE & HW protection threshold 0 u SET just disconnects all time.
You are not showing details of the tryouts with 802.11ac. If we can't see how these are configured we don't know if you get the best out of 'ac'

I have a mix of towers all serving clients from 500mtres to 5km and all with interference from at least some 20 other sectors in the region. Many of my clients can get 100Mbps delivered (tcp single stream traffic) and 90% are arm devices in either 40 or 80Mhz wide channel.
We tried NV2 over and over again and I made several examples in this forum to show NV2 simply is not half as good as 802.11ac. Only in rare occasions we get 60% of capacity in NV2 compared to 'ac'.
I am still swapping 'n' devices for LHG's and DISC's and can't wait to get the rest running 802.11ac so we can start offering higher package to the clients. (And most need IPTV, works absolute fine on our 'ac' towers.
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Rudy R. Puister

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normis
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:26 am

Nothing will work reliably in "crowded spectrum ptmp with hidden nodes"!
You are asking to bend physics.
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
2jarek
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:11 am

LOOK CLOSER NV2+20Mhz+802.11N + ARM CLIENTS. RTS/CTS settings & HW retries without meaning FOR NV2 mode.

I have many 802.11AC sites not NV2. But pure AC works only fort short distance & good signals. If u have noise & 5 km links + p2mp 20 clients pure 802.1n/AC don't works no matter RTC/CTS & PREAMBLE & HW protection threshold 0 u SET just disconnects all time.
You are not showing details of the tryouts with 802.11ac. If we can't see how these are configured we don't know if you get the best out of 'ac'

I have a mix of towers all serving clients from 500mtres to 5km and all with interference from at least some 20 other sectors in the region. Many of my clients can get 100Mbps delivered (tcp single stream traffic) and 90% are arm devices in either 40 or 80Mhz wide channel.
We tried NV2 over and over again and I made several examples in this forum to show NV2 simply is not half as good as 802.11ac. Only in rare occasions we get 60% of capacity in NV2 compared to 'ac'.
I am still swapping 'n' devices for LHG's and DISC's and can't wait to get the rest running 802.11ac so we can start offering higher package to the clients. (And most need IPTV, works absolute fine on our 'ac' towers.
1) NV2 works well only for 20Mhz chanel. Don't scale properly 110-120 tcp with 20Mhz chanel & 130-150 from 40Mhz for TCP multi stream. Even in lab clear spectrum.
2)NV2 works well on Old BASEBOX 5N 912UAG-5HPnD & SXT G-5HPacD but completely unusable (70Mbit from 20Mhz) on Netmetals like 921UAGS-5SHPacT witch sector antena.
 
2jarek
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:26 am

I stop buy mikrotik AC gears.I buy only used cheap OLD LHG & SXT 802.11N. & wait for UBNT LTU. First tests gave 150Mbit from 20Mhz, 420Mbit from 50Mhz & good price 99$ for basic client CPE.
 
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normis
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:02 pm

Does this competitor stuff use Nv2? Or you admit, that it works fine without Nv2?
I can repeat, the modern hardware is different. You should be able to make a good and working setup with 802.11ac
Nv2 was made for solving other problems with other hardware.
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
WirelessRudy
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:46 pm

I stop buy mikrotik AC gears.I buy only used cheap OLD LHG & SXT 802.11N. & wait for UBNT LTU. First tests gave 150Mbit from 20Mhz, 420Mbit from 50Mhz & good price 99$ for basic client CPE.
Ok, maybe we should make a deal. I have some 100 LHG-n devices soon and actually we just threw some 50 SXT 802.11'n''s away.... We are facing out another 70 or so LHG-n to be replaced by new LHG 'ac' devices. And I have probably some 10-20 'old' SXT models coming back that are going to be replaced by either DISC's or the new SXT-sq5 'ac' devices.

Any interest in the old SEXTANT's? Or RF-Elements with Mikrotik 'n' boards in them. I might stop binning these if you want them? They all coming back from working environment but I want to upgrade my full MT P2MP network to 'ac' so we can start offering 100Mb package to clients..... I stil have some 200 units to go but as a small operator with little margin its going to take us another 6 months at least.... And I feel sorry for tipping so many still good (but not good enough!) working units that has done so good for years...

Most of the LHG's come in boxes from the new LHG-5ac we buy. We only replace the radio so all the rest (dish, adapter, inserter) are brand new. What'd we say? 100€ per box of 5 LHG's?
Send me an e-mail if interested: rudy@marucom.es.

I'd suppose MT will be happy with this deal since it will help me forwarding the purchase or more 'ac' devices from them! :D
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Rudy R. Puister

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2jarek
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:22 pm

Does this competitor stuff use Nv2? Or you admit, that it works fine without Nv2?
I can repeat, the modern hardware is different. You should be able to make a good and working setup with 802.11ac
Nv2 was made for solving other problems with other hardware.
OFC UBNT LTU use completely different hardware closer LTE than 802.11 but its still TDMA (0 problems with hidden nodes & NLOS & load balancing like 802.11AC even with RTS/CTS, WMM no matter real ISP need TDMA protocol).
Just don't give up development NV2. NV2&ARM now works same or better than MIPSBE for 20Mhz channel. Almost same good like pure 802.11AC 120Mbit for SINGLE TCP STREAM (17 active clients on AP)
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n21roadie
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:55 pm

OFC UBNT LTU use completely different hardware closer LTE than 802.11 but its still TDMA (0 problems with hidden nodes & NLOS & load balancing like 802.11AC even with RTS/CTS, WMM no matter real ISP need TDMA protocol).
Just don't give up development NV2. NV2&ARM now works same or better than MIPSBE for 20Mhz channel. Almost same good like pure 802.11AC 120Mbit for SINGLE TCP STREAM (17 active clients on AP)
Just curious have you used OFC UBNT LTU! and does it really give 0 problems with NLOS issues !

On a minor note , the date on the clock is incorrect!
 
n21roadie
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:31 pm

I have a mix of towers all serving clients from 500mtres to 5km and all with interference from at least some 20 other sectors in the region. Many of my clients can get 100Mbps delivered (tcp single stream traffic) and 90% are arm devices in either 40 or 80Mhz wide channel.
We tried NV2 over and over again and I made several examples in this forum to show NV2 simply is not half as good as 802.11ac. Only in rare occasions we get 60% of capacity in NV2 compared to 'ac'.
I am still swapping 'n' devices for LHG's and DISC's and can't wait to get the rest running 802.11ac so we can start offering higher package to the clients. (And most need IPTV, works absolute fine on our 'ac' towers.
When comparing AC to NV2 is that running units with the same channel width - NV2= 20Mhz and AC=20Mhz?
 
WirelessRudy
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:22 pm

When comparing AC to NV2 is that running units with the same channel width - NV2= 20Mhz and AC=20Mhz?
In some cases yes, in some we upgraded to 40Mhz (and in 2 even to 80Mhz wide). But before things became worse with NV2 going from 20 to 40Mhz. Now usually not. (But careful setting of frequency and pilot channel is needed with regular check and update. The spectrum changes all the time....)
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Rudy R. Puister

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InoX
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:17 pm

After all this, is it now "safe" to build a network with mANTBox and arm .ac as clients?
I need to make a high speed ptmp 6 clients network.
 
mfr476
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:03 pm

802.11ac loses packets and is very vulnerable. It would be a lot to ask @normis for a tdma for the ac from mikrotik. All manufacturers have their tdma that works well. Why mikrotik no?
 
2jarek
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:02 pm

802.11ac loses packets and is very vulnerable. It would be a lot to ask @normis for a tdma for the ac from mikrotik. All manufacturers have their tdma that works well. Why mikrotik no?
Cambium Elevate & now.... almost all 802.11N mikrotik devices works much, much better than mikrotik software;) Or w8 for UBNT LTU.
 
n21roadie
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:03 pm

802.11ac loses packets and is very vulnerable. It would be a lot to ask @normis for a tdma for the ac from mikrotik. All manufacturers have their tdma that works well. Why mikrotik no?
Cambium Elevate & now.... almost all 802.11N mikrotik devices works much, much better than mikrotik software;) Or w8 for UBNT LTU.
Feedback from UBNT LTU users is that it cannot handle noisy environments, requires a totally clean spectrum?
 
2jarek
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:01 pm

802.11ac loses packets and is very vulnerable. It would be a lot to ask @normis for a tdma for the ac from mikrotik. All manufacturers have their tdma that works well. Why mikrotik no?
Cambium Elevate & now.... almost all 802.11N mikrotik devices works much, much better than mikrotik software;) Or w8 for UBNT LTU.
Feedback from UBNT LTU users is that it cannot handle noisy environments, requires a totally clean spectrum?
Works but can't handle 1024-256QAM, max 64QAM & some packets drop. No latency spikes/jitter like 802.11 just drop. Test vs mikrotik netmetal. LTU needs clean spectrum for full speed.
 
n21roadie
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:54 pm

Works but can't handle 1024-256QAM, max 64QAM & some packets drop. No latency spikes/jitter like 802.11 just drop. Test vs mikrotik netmetal. LTU needs clean spectrum for full speed.
The real performance benchmark for wireless equipment is when it can operate at (or close to) full speed in noisy environments.

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