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kalamaja
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LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:30 pm

Hello.

Is it an intended behaviour that LtAP Mini's internal GPS feature is useless without adding external antenna (= ACGPSA+ACSMAUFL)? I see GPS data running in the logs but have not been able to get any position lock. As USB port is for power only I'm also unable to add USB GPS module.
 
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normis
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:27 pm

Most likely you have not disabled "/system console" and set the GPS menu to use serial0. Please do these things and only then GPS will work.
External antenna is optional, but will work much better.
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kalamaja
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:08 pm

Software and firmware 6.42.5, fresh default configuration. What I do:
/system console disable 0
/system gps set port=serial0 enabled=yes
Resulting in:
/port
set 0 baud-rate=auto data-bits=8 flow-control=none name=serial0 parity=none stop-bits=1
/port firmware
set directory=firmware ignore-directip-modem=no
/system gps
set channel=0 enabled=yes gps-antenna-select=internal init-string="" port=serial0 set-system-time=no
If I set GPS logging, I see GPS data running. The only change I see is that date changes from Nov/30/1999 00:00:00 to Jan/06/1980 00:02:30 (GPS start era).

Jul/04/2018 21:47:25 gps,raw GPS:: $GPGGA,001014.020,,,,,0,0,,,M,,M,,*4E
Jul/04/2018 21:47:25 gps,raw GPS:: $GPGLL,,,,,001014.020,V,N*7C
Jul/04/2018 21:47:25 gps,raw GPS:: $GPGSA,A,1,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,*1E
Jul/04/2018 21:47:25 gps,raw GPS:: $GPGSV,1,1,00*79
Jul/04/2018 21:47:25 gps,raw GPS:: $GPRMC,001014.020,V,,,,,0.00,0.00,060180,,,N*44
Jul/04/2018 21:47:25 gps,raw GPS:: $GPVTG,0.00,T,,M,0.00,N,0.00,K,N*32
Jul/04/2018 21:47:26 gps,raw GPS:: $GPGGA,001015.020,,,,,0,0,,,M,,M,,*4F
Jul/04/2018 21:47:26 gps,raw GPS:: $GPGLL,,,,,001015.020,V,N*7D
Jul/04/2018 21:47:26 gps,raw GPS:: $GPGSA,A,1,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,*1E
Jul/04/2018 21:47:26 gps,raw GPS:: $GPGSV,1,1,00*79
Jul/04/2018 21:47:26 gps,raw GPS:: $GPRMC,001015.020,V,,,,,0.00,0.00,060180,,,N*45
Jul/04/2018 21:47:26 gps,raw GPS:: $GPVTG,0.00,T,,M,0.00,N,0.00,K,N*32
Jul/04/2018 21:47:27 gps,raw GPS:: $GPGGA,001016.020,,,,,0,0,,,M,,M,,*4C
Jul/04/2018 21:47:27 gps,raw GPS:: $GPGLL,,,,,001016.020,V,N*7E
Jul/04/2018 21:47:27 gps,raw GPS:: $GPGSA,A,1,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,*1E
Jul/04/2018 21:47:27 gps,raw GPS:: $GPGSV,1,1,00*79
Jul/04/2018 21:47:27 gps,raw GPS:: $GPRMC,001016.020,V,,,,,0.00,0.00,060180,,,N*46
Jul/04/2018 21:47:27 gps,raw GPS:: $GPVTG,0.00,T,,M,0.00,N,0.00,K,N*32
....

Am I missing smth?

With mAP 2nd + BU-353S4 USB GPS module I'm able to get location fixed literary in seconds.
 
jebz
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:07 pm


Am I missing smth?

With mAP 2nd + BU-353S4 USB GPS module I'm able to get location fixed literary in seconds.
.
Patients, please wait. A new GPS can take up to half an hour the first time. Many GPS have small batteries to assist in regaining their values more quickly after a restart.
 
mgisbers
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:16 pm

I've got same problem here. Console is disabled and serial0 is assigned to gps.

After enable of gps I can see gps,raw messages within the logfile. Even after 6 hours - which should be enough time to sync - it shows that there is not even a single satellite found.

I even tried two ltap mini, one of them with stock configuration. Both with 6.42.5 packages.

And, of course, both testet outside with free sky view.
 
korniza
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:53 pm

same here. I was lucky and bought an external antenna.
In real life there is no internal antenna for gps connected.
Also GPS led it stays off when there is no satellite connected. This led can not be used for any other function.
 
nemke
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:00 pm

Same problem. Put LtAP on roof of the house in clear sky.
GPS enabled. Wait 2h and nothing, no GPS data. In logs there are gps traffic
Used with internet antena, didn't buy and attach external one. Will external antena correct problem ?
LTE work normaly.

Nemanja
 
nemke
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:25 pm

And, is it possibe to use other external GPS antenas with SMA, not only MT (ACGPSA) ?
https://www.amazon.de/Teltonika-GPS-GNS ... B077C66RTK
Like this, for example
 
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normis
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:13 am

Same problem. Put LtAP on roof of the house in clear sky.
GPS enabled. Wait 2h and nothing, no GPS data. In logs there are gps traffic
Used with internet antena, didn't buy and attach external one. Will external antena correct problem ?
LTE work normaly.

Nemanja
It means GPS data goes to console, see my previous responses. Turn off serial console in RouterOS, then set GPS menu to use Serial0
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nemke
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:29 pm

Same problem. Put LtAP on roof of the house in clear sky.
GPS enabled. Wait 2h and nothing, no GPS data. In logs there are gps traffic
Used with internet antena, didn't buy and attach external one. Will external antena correct problem ?
LTE work normaly.

Nemanja
It means GPS data goes to console, see my previous responses. Turn off serial console in RouterOS, then set GPS menu to use Serial0
Done that. I read all post, especialy reply from MT support...

[admin@Brod Pozerveac 6] > system console disable 0
[admin@Brod Pozerveac 6] > system console print
Flags: X - disabled, U - used, F - free
# PORT TERM
0 X serial0 vt102
[admin@xxxxxxxxxx] > system console set disabled=yes 0
[admin@xxxxxxxxxx] > system gps print
enabled: yes
port: serial0
channel: 0
init-string:
set-system-time: no
gps-antenna-select: internal
[admin@xxxxxxxxxx] > system console print
Flags: X - disabled, U - used, F - free
# PORT TERM
0 X serial0 vt102
[admin@xxxxxxxxxx] > system gps
[admin@xxxxxxxxxx] /system gps> monitor
date-and-time: jan/06/1980 00:13:34
latitude: none
longitude: none
altitude: 0.000000m
speed: 0.000000 km/h
destination-bearing: none
true-bearing: 0.000000 deg. True
magnetic-bearing: 0.000000 deg. Mag
valid: no
satellites: 0
fix-quality: 0
horizontal-dilution: 0
-- [Q quit|D dump|C-z pause]
[admin@xxxxxxxxxx] > system package print
Flags: X - disabled
# NAME VERSION SCHEDULED
0 routeros-mipsbe 6.42.6
1 system 6.42.6
2 X ipv6 6.42.6
3 wireless 6.42.6
4 hotspot 6.42.6
5 dhcp 6.42.6
6 mpls 6.42.6
7 routing 6.42.6
8 ppp 6.42.6
9 security 6.42.6
10 advanced-tools 6.42.6
11 gps 6.42.6
[admin@xxxxxxxxxx] > system routerboard print
routerboard: yes
board-name: LtAP mini
model: RB912R-2nD
serial-number: 8F00099D99FB
firmware-type: qca9531L
factory-firmware: 6.42.1
current-firmware: 6.42.6
upgrade-firmware: 6.42.6


LtAP is on roof for 3h and stil no fix.
 
HenryChinaski
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:45 am

Hi!

I think i got the same issue, any solution?

Ltap Mini, no external antenna. No GPS data

Thanks, henry
 
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normis
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:49 am

Try external antenna, does it get a fix then? How soon? Are you guys using the LTE modem?
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mgisbers
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:40 am

Try external antenna, does it get a fix then? How soon? Are you guys using the LTE modem?
Hi, just bought an external antenna. Will report after check.

With one of my LtAPs I tried to use GPS in addition to LTE with the other one I used GPS only with disabled LTE. Both of them showed the same result: no satellites found.

I will now start drilling a hole and put an antenna to one of them.
 
kalamaja
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:51 am

Try external antenna, does it get a fix then? How soon? Are you guys using the LTE modem?
GPS-data in the log is self-generated (GPGGA, GPGLL, GPGSA, GPGSV etc) so no actual traffic from sattellites. I've run it on internal antenna for tens of hours in open air, powered from USB while driving, submitting coordinates over LTE using demo application, and for all that time only ONCE it has been able to send non-zero coordinates.
 
rzirzi
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:51 pm

I have the same problem wit my brand new LtAP mini LTE kit - no GPS signal receiving :(
I have configured like in that example: https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:System/GPS
GPS module is not receiving coordinations:(((( Should I send it to RMA?
 
nemke
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:06 pm

Hello
Problem iz with internal antena. I buy externat, plug it, and imediatly GPS show cordinate.
[admin@xxxxxxxxxxx] > system gps monitor
date-and-time: jul/17/2018 16:59:06
latitude: N 44 50' 40.98''
longitude: E 20 24' 35.142''
altitude: 107.400002m
speed: 0.018520 km/h
destination-bearing: none
true-bearing: 157.399994 deg. True
magnetic-bearing: 0.000000 deg. Mag
valid: yes
satellites: 10
fix-quality: 1
horizontal-dilution: 1.04

I try with GPS antena internal or externel in settup, it work in any case, WITH EXTERNAL GPS antena connected to LtAP. LtAP is IN SAME PLACE like in previsus tests when there is no GPS data.
So, I think that internal antena is bud desine, OR LTE antena make interfirance or block GPS signal.
I will try to remove cover from LtAP and/or disable LTE.

I will post answer
 
nemke
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:32 pm

Spend some time testing this. Have device in front of me so I can easy make tests.

I try to:
1. reset LtAP to default, and start from 0
2. remove cover, LTE and WIFI enabled - no GPS,
3. removed cover, LTE and WIFI disabled - no GPS
4. Cover on, disable LTE and WIFI - no GSP
and so on ......

So I try any of combination with cover, LTE and WIFI, and IN ANY CASE GPS DON'T WORK WITHOUT EXTERNAL ANTENNA in my case.

For me that is not problem to have antenna, but will be much easy if MT sell GPS antenna WITH device, in same box, not like separate accessory so You can buy it or not.
For 10$ more, you have complete thing. It will save time and testing and garantie good service.
LTE work OK, with integrated antenna,no problem for now. Only GPS have problem.
For test didn't buy and use MT GPS antena, I use ARKNAV A-130 external antenna with 5m cable


GPS realy work now, so for me this is solved

Thank you
Nemanja
 
HenryChinaski
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:29 pm

Ok,

So it seems for GPS working on Ltap Mini Antenna is mandatory?

Could Mikrotik Support confirm this? I bought my ltap mini abroad, no mikrotik Antenna in my country. What kind of antenna and pigtail i have to look for?

Thanks.
 
nemke
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:14 am

Ok,

So it seems for GPS working on Ltap Mini Antenna is mandatory?

Could Mikrotik Support confirm this? I bought my ltap mini abroad, no mikrotik Antenna in my country. What kind of antenna and pigtail i have to look for?

Thanks.
https://mikrotik.com/product/acsmaufl this one for GPS and for LTE (if yuo need external antenna) I buy 3 peaces of this pigtail, two are for external LTE antena and one for GPS antena
My GPS antenna has SMA connector so it fits to this pigtail.
 
rzirzi
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:01 pm

MikroTik team - could You answer to this topic? Where is a problem with LtAP and GPS?
 
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normis
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:04 pm

We are seeing that the internal antenna becomes compromised when LTE is used, so for the time being, MikroTik recommends using an external antenna with these devices, if accuracy and speed of acquisition are paramount. We will try to resolve the issue, or adjust the product information, depending on our findings.
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HenryChinaski
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:03 pm

Normis.

Hi.

When you say "LTE Is used" you mean, LTE card present? Service active ? Or interface up?

Im not using LTE service in my tests so this should not be an issue.

I Will try to buy an antenna for further testing.

Is GPS service more accurate while using LTE?

Sorry if this questions are so basic. Im new to this GPS/LTE World

I found ltap device amazing hardware. I Will continue with this tests and post results

Henry
 
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normis
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:21 am

In that case, remove the LTE card, and also try to mount it differently, with serial port pointing up
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kalamaja
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:41 pm

In that case, remove the LTE card, and also try to mount it differently, with serial port pointing up
I see no difference from disabling or removing LTE card: no luck. Tested with external MT GPS module: gets fix in seconds and 6-8 sattellites always visible. What I see on 6.43rc44 is that when external antenna is connected then there's no difference of switching antenna parameter to external or internal, always the same result as with external antenna.
 
CuninganReset
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:01 pm

Hello.

I have seen the same, the internal antenna is useless at all.
Also, I have upgraded to 6.53rc51 and now my GPS disappear from the device.
I tried to downgrade to 6.42.6 to test if it comes back but no, it is still lost.
And as last resort, I tried with NetInstall but the same result, I have now a Ltap mini without GPS.

And LTE speed is around 10 to 15 Mbps.
 
CuninganReset
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:21 pm

Ok, the GPS must be installed from extra packages but it still does not fix any position with internal antenna.

I am waiting for the external one and the pigtail.

My biggest issue now is that device reboot every couple of minutes, it appears to have some issue and reboot by itself.
Hello.

I have seen the same, the internal antenna is useless at all.
Also, I have upgraded to 6.53rc51 and now my GPS disappear from the device.
I tried to downgrade to 6.42.6 to test if it comes back but no, it is still lost.
And as last resort, I tried with NetInstall but the same result, I have now a Ltap mini without GPS.

And LTE speed is around 10 to 15 Mbps.
 
CuninganReset
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:30 pm

I have some idea of what is happening with the ltAP mini and the reboots.

I was powering it up using USB and a 2.0A power adapter and I was connecting using Wifi (ltAP as AP) and when I connected it reboots.

To me, it appears to be a USB power issue, with LTE, GPS and Wifi working at the same time it appears that USB is not enough and it reboots suddenly.

Now I am powering it up using the power plug and it is stable for 1 hour.
 
vanyo
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:54 pm

I've spent a lot of time to get the GPS going. I found one thing, which caused the problems:
In the MT wiki https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:System/GPS they recommend setting the port:
[admin@MikroTik] /port> set 0 baud-rate=4800 parity=odd
[admin@MikroTik] /port> print detail 
Flags: I - inactive 
 0   name="usb1" used-by="" channels=1 baud-rate=4800 data-bits=8 parity=odd stop-bits=1 flow-control=none
In our case it should be parity=none:
[admin@MikroTik] /port> set 0 baud-rate=auto parity=none
[admin@MikroTik] /port> print detail 
Flags: I - inactive 
 0   name="serial0" used-by="" channels=1 baud-rate=auto data-bits=8 parity=none stop-bits=1 flow-control=none
 
jdillig
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:05 am

I spent hours screwing around with the GPS on this unit until finally finding the polarity setting mentioned. The Wiki article needs to be updated to reflect the actual configuration settings required to get this to work. Also it requires the external antenna, which frankly is just poor design. Why not include the $10 part/cable with the unit if it doesn't work without it. I had to source both the RP-SMA to u.FL and the external antenna separately.

I am also a little skeptical of the waterproof of this unit; it seems more like water resistant.

However this is far cheaper then cradle point and kinda cool if it works.
 
sophitus
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:58 am

Hello,

why is GPS support still advertised by Mikrotik? Can it be fixed by firmware update? Should the devices be recalled and exchanged? First time disappointed by Mikrotik's QA.....

Thanks for a reply!
 
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normis
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:02 am

If you use the antenna, GPS works fine. We will clarify this in the brochure.
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sophitus
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:28 pm

The device is too big for my purpose with external antenna. I bought it because you (Mikrotik) claimed it supports GPS out of the box with internal antenna initially! My mobile phone has LTE and GPS working both together with no interference.

Is this really Mikrotik's support policy?

1) Changing the specs after design problems have been detected by customers after a product launch
2) Not stopping instantly false advertisements on the local web site
3) Not informing customer nor distributors whether the issue is hardware based or it can and will be fixed by firmware update
4) Not recalling a defective product

It's a shame. You make really nice products otherwise.... I cannot understand how lenient some of your customers are, especially those posting to this forum
 
ubntuser
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:10 am

6.43rc64 fixed Internal GPS issue! Port settings are default and I switched from External to Internal and immediately picked up 4 satellites, in the middle of my house.
 
sophitus
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:26 am

Can anybody from MikroTik confirm that? Release notes?
 
ubntuser
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:33 am

+1 for confirmation from support. In other news, Ubiquiti GPS units from the Rockets M GPS series will work with this unit. I also attached a screenshot of my current GPS settings.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
 
sophitus
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:36 pm

Did you remove the external GPS antenna before changing to internal one? Some people claim once external GPS antenna is attached you can switch to internal or external and it always works, i.e. it always takes external even if displayed internal.
 
ubntuser
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:30 pm

I had external GPS connected, when I switched over to internal. Once I saw that internal GPS was connecting I then removed the external GPS while the device was still powered on. I did some more configuring and rebooted the unit multiple times and Internal GPS always came back on. You got me thinking, so I shutdown and removed power from the device....waited a bit and reconnected power and now Internal GPS has yet to lock on. Dang....sorry for the false hope!
 
CuninganReset
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:39 am

to me, it works with the external antenna and it works pretty good, with HDOP of less than 0.9

But with the internal antenna, it is impossible at all.
 
CuninganReset
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:53 pm

To me, it works with an external antenna.

It is very precise but sometimes it jumps to the side by some meters and comes back.
I don't know if it is produced by the LTE card because I am using LTE and GPS.
Imagen1.jpg
You can see it in the trace here, i am plotting every second but every couple of seconds it "jumps" and come back.
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mkx
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:39 pm

... every couple of seconds it "jumps" and come back.
So better don't rely on it for autonomous vehicle driving. :wink:
BR,
Metod
 
CuninganReset
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:06 pm

not, better not to rely on it for autonomous vehicles.
... every couple of seconds it "jumps" and come back.
So better don't rely on it for autonomous vehicle driving. :wink:
 
cstrobl
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:15 pm

hi,

is there any solution possible?

my config:
ROS 6.43
ltap mini w activated LTE (RB912R-2nD)

MikroTik ACSMAUFL - U.fl-SMA (male)-Pigtail
MikroTik ACGPSA - GPS-Antenne mit SMA-Stecker

[admin@MikroTik] > /system gps print
enabled: yes
port: serial0
channel: 0
init-string:
set-system-time: no
gps-antenna-select: internal
[admin@MikroTik] >

[admin@MikroTik] > /port print
Flags: I - inactive
# DEVICE NAME CHANNELS USED-BY BAUD-RATE
0 serial0 1 GPS auto
 
CuninganReset
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Re: LtAP Mini GPS useless without antenna

Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:40 pm

Hi guys.

Please have a look to this post I wrote about LtAP Mini with LTE kit and external antennas.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=139088

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