Community discussions

 
effndc
newbie
Topic Author
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:25 am

WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:07 am

I am seeing a really odd issue/conflict between the new iPhone XS and the Mikrotik WAP ac (RouterBOARD wAP G-5HacT2HnD) currently running 6.43.2.

The iPhone XS does not work well with the Mikrotik on 5GHz, the problem seems worst on 80MHz channels (Ceee) and the absolute worst is in the higher frequency channels. In general the iPhone XS does not work reliably with the Miktorik in the 5GHz, the only other access point I have to test with is an Asus RT-N56U that only supports 40MHz channels. The phone works "fine" on the Asus, but most of the time on the Mikrotik it fails to communicate.

It is odd that none of my other devices have this issue, including iPad Air, iPhone SE, iPhone 8, iPhone X....those all work fine. So it is either something about the Mikrotik is out of expectation or the iPhone XS is, but it is odd that the iPhone XS works fine on the ASUS as well.
/interface wireless 
set [ find default-name=wlan2 ] band=5ghz-onlyac disabled=no frequency=5765 mode=ap-bridge multicast-helper=full name="SSID 5GHz" security-profile="security-profile" ssid="SSID 5GHz" wireless-protocol=802.11 wmm-support=enabled wps-mode=disabled
(I just switched it to the 5ghz-onlyac as a troubleshooting step, it was on default to allow A/N/AC during most testing)

Any pointers appreciated, I am hoping it is something stupid simple at this point.
 
mducharme
Trainer
Trainer
Posts: 662
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:20 am

I notice you don't have a country set for your wireless interface. You should set that, otherwise the interface may be able to select a frequency that is not allowed in your country and the phone may then refuse to connect. There are other potential issues, but that jumps out as a possibility.
 
effndc
newbie
Topic Author
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:25 am

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:36 am

I notice you don't have a country set for your wireless interface. You should set that, otherwise the interface may be able to select a frequency that is not allowed in your country and the phone may then refuse to connect. There are other potential issues, but that jumps out as a possibility.
This model is hard coded to "united states3". I have 3 of these, but oddly one does allow country selection (even though it is supposed to be hard coded).

It is really odd that if I use 2.4GHz with all settings "similar" between the two networks, the 2.4GHz works every time (within the bandwidth constraints of 2.4GHz). I prefer to not use 2.4GHz due to performance and interference in the urban environment.

To make this even more unusual, it works for "local" network traffic (e.g. the phone can open up the Webfig of my router) but fails for anything over the Internet...even though all other devices work fine. To test locally I open the Webfig splash page for my router (RouterBOARD 750G r3) and for the Internet test it is as simple as using the whatip.me site.

Noise floor using the "Frequency Usage" report on the AP I am actively connecting to shows -104 to -100, with the highest frequencies (that I am attempting to use in this AP location) having the lowest usage.
 
effndc
newbie
Topic Author
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:25 am

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:17 am

This problem gets even more unusual, as it really seems to be something about the IPv6 tunnel I have from Hurricane Electric. Which even makes less sense when it works over 2.4GHz.
 
User avatar
normis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 23608
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 11:04 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:38 am

No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
RoutoRooter
just joined
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:55 pm

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:56 pm

Whatever the problem is, it only affects 802.11AC connections. "N" works perfectly. Really odd. Experiencing these exact symptoms when connected via "AC".
 
User avatar
pukkita
Trainer
Trainer
Posts: 2975
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:09 am
Location: Spain

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:23 pm

Just tested an EU XS with a hAP AC 6.40.9, works flawlessly, 100/115 MBps using 5GHz AC 40MHz.

Looks like device specific, definitely pointing to the iphone.

To rule everything out, Is System > Routerboard Current Firmware same version as Upgrade one?
Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication - Da Vinci
Getting the most out of this forum
 
RoutoRooter
just joined
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:55 pm

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:16 am

I’ve tried it with both current and bug fix packages and router board firmware. Have you tested with 80mhz channels?
 
User avatar
harvey
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:16 pm

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:56 am

Hi,

I just wanted to cross post a similar thread where others have reported the same issues with HAP AC's.

I too use 80MHz Channels and HE IPv6 tunnels. I haven't tried changing these.

The thread is here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=139524

I don't believe the phone is at fault as I use Unifi AC Pros on 80MHz channels at work and a test one at home and the phone works fine when connected to them.
 
netispguy
newbie
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:29 am

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:02 am

OMG... I cannot believe I just stumbled actress this link.

We are having the exact same problems as mentioned by @effndc.

We have 9 MK APs of various types. All running 6.43, with matching 6.43 firmware. All running multiple SSID 5Ghz/80MHz channels (along with 2.4GHz service) with the same SSID name (plus a bunch of virtual channels of various SSID names). Been stable for a very long time. We have a number of iPhoneX, iPads, MacBook Pros, etc and for the past month, some iPhone Xs and iPhone XsMax. Everything works perfectly EXCEPT the "s" models. These units are barely usable on the MK framework. As mentioned, the "s" models work good on the local LANs, but Internet usage is a constant nightmare. Browsers don't connect, iCloud and other services report "unable to connect," email reports unable to reach servers, etc, etc, etc.

We have been working with Apple tier II and III to solve this problem, supplying them with logs and such. We have exchanged one Xs and one XsMax to make sure we are not dealing with defective hardware. We have groomed apps in the event one or more was causing a problem. We have done "restore to new iPhone" more times than I can remember. I have checked every MK config, including the "wireless", "bridges" all firewalls (IPv4 and IPv6) to the point that I am have bad dreams about them. The iPhoneXs and iPhoneXsMax are unusable on the MK framework at this time...

However, I did find a totally unacceptable workaround. As I was going through the settings of an iPhoneXsMax and wanted to see if I could get to our remote network on the East Coast (I am out West). I established a L2TP VPN connection to our Boston location (which also has MK) and it connected just fine. The interface is configured to send all traffic via the tunnel. I noticed after a few mins that I no longer had issues... it was totally working for everything. So, I dropped the VPN and established a new VPN to my local router (which is generally only used for inbound connections.) Again, working 100%...yup 100%... when I dropped the connection, back to not working again.

This is an urgent problem that need to be addressed asap. The new iPhones are not viable on the MK framework at this time. If MK believes this is an Apple issue, I have a way to get it to the appropriate people, but I must have details of what needs addressing... but given these new Apple devices seem to have no issue on other frameworks, I think this is a MK issue.
 
philamonster
just joined
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:08 am

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:33 pm

Maybe this is of interest to XS users:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209084
Resolves an issue that could cause iPhone XS devices to rejoin a Wi-Fi network at 2.4GHz instead of 5GHz
 
netispguy
newbie
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:29 am

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:36 pm

@philamonster I can confirm that IOS 12.0.1 does fix the disconnct problem contained in the release notes link you suggested. However, it does not fix the issue being discussed in this topic.

Xs models are still seeing issues using when attached to Mikrotik 5GHz 80MHz AC configurations.
 
anuser
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 278
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:27 pm

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:46 am

Version 6.44beta14 has been released.
*) wireless - improved stability for 802.11ac;
Have you tried latest 6.44beta release, too?
 
User avatar
harvey
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:16 pm

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:55 pm

Version 6.44beta14 has been released.
*) wireless - improved stability for 802.11ac;
Have you tried latest 6.44beta release, too?
Already seen and tried without luck
 
netispguy
newbie
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:29 am

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:17 pm

I agree with @harvey: 6.44beta does not fix this problem.

Only workaround right now is to configure your radios to any of the 5GHz-A/N settings. No "AC". This impacts all 5GHz users, but lets the new Xs models at least function.
 
tapir
just joined
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:18 pm

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:31 pm

I don't have an iPhone Xs to test with but does knocking the 5Ghz down to a 40Mhz channel width make any difference? I could see this potentially being an issue for some of our customers. I do run the 2.4 and 5Ghz on separate SSIDs so can just tell them use the 2.4Ghz radio for now.
 
netispguy
newbie
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:29 am

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:38 pm

Any of the "AC" bands are a problem at all channel widths. We see it on both 20/40/80MHz and 20/40MHz channel widths (regardless of center channel config). The Xs models will work if you use any of A/N bands and any channel width. AC is the problem.

Our config uses the same SSID for both 2.4GHz and 5GHz, so our users do not have a choice of radios.
 
freezer
just joined
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:17 pm
Contact:

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:47 pm

I have exactly same problem with my iPhone XS (bought from official european distributor). Problem exists on iOS 12.0 and 12.0.1.

My Mikrotik cAP AC is running 6.43.2 - software and firmware, and previously was running one of the recent 6.43 release candidates.
This is specific problem of Mikrotik and iPhone XS, as my other phones (iPhone X, iPad Pro) running same iOS version (12.0.1) are working fine with this Mikrotik AP, also my ASUS RT-AC86U is working properly with iPhone XS.

This setup (cAP AC) was stable for months and only iPhone XS is having problems here.

I'm using:

5GHz-A/N/AC
20/40/80MHz XXXX
5180
L2MTU 1600
MTU 1500
-Greg
Skype: freezer_szczecin
 
netispguy
newbie
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:29 am

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:06 am

I have exactly same problem with my iPhone XS (bought from official european distributor). Problem exists on iOS 12.0 and 12.0.1.

My Mikrotik cAP AC is running 6.43.2 - software and firmware, and previously was running one of the recent 6.43 release candidates.
This is specific problem of Mikrotik and iPhone XS, as my other phones (iPhone X, iPad Pro) running same iOS version (12.0.1) are working fine with this Mikrotik AP, also my ASUS RT-AC86U is working properly with iPhone XS.

This setup (cAP AC) was stable for months and only iPhone XS is having problems here.

I'm using:

5GHz-A/N/AC
20/40/80MHz XXXX


5180
L2MTU 1600
MTU 1500
Yup... You are seeing exactly what we have been discussing... only the Xs and XsMax impacted. And the problem seems to exist across all of the Mikrotik platforms. Although it seems to strongly suggest this is a MIkrotik problem, I am not 100% certain that Apple may also be doing something that is out of spec. My other office is 100% Cisco, and the Xs and XsMax works fine.

Until they fix it, trying setting your radio to:

5GHZ-A/N
20/40MHZ XX
<any frequency, etc will work>

-or-

I have found that if you create an L2TP VPN service on your router, and connect the "Xs" to it, that seems to work even on AC setups... but that is totally unacceptable to me.
 
freezer
just joined
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:17 pm
Contact:

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:50 am

I did set 802.11A/N with 40MHz channel width as a temporary workaround.

I believe I have noticed that connecting iPhone XS via VPN over Mikrotik router on 802.11ac radio also "workarounds" the problem. I cannot prove it as I don't have time for this now, but it seems like some MTU/Packet size related issue to me, especially that websites don't work properly but SPEEDTEST app shows ~ 300Mbps in download.

MIKROTIK support should easily reproduce this problem.

Best regards,
Greg
-Greg
Skype: freezer_szczecin
 
netispguy
newbie
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:29 am

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:33 pm

I did set 802.11A/N with 40MHz channel width as a temporary workaround.

I believe I have noticed that connecting iPhone XS via VPN over Mikrotik router on 802.11ac radio also "workarounds" the problem. I cannot prove it as I don't have time for this now, but it seems like some MTU/Packet size related issue to me, especially that websites don't work properly but SPEEDTEST app shows ~ 300Mbps in download.

MIKROTIK support should easily reproduce this problem.

Best regards,
Greg
Your findings are fully consistent with what I am seeing; however, I can report that more than websites are affected. We are seeing the issues with other non browser web applications, such as connecting to iCloud and AppStore (where it says it cannot connect), email using Exchange and iMap (where we get server "errors" at the botton of the screen and "updates" are as much as an hour old), streaming with Netflix, CNN, BBC and even SPEEDTEST. With regards to SPEEDTEST, we have seen it timeout looking for servers (local and remote) on numerous occasions. You should try SPEEDTEST at random a few more times. The problem is transient, and things seems to work on/off/on/off, etc... It's strange that connectivity and other tests (such as Ping) seem to work on our local LAN without issue, although I have not spent a lot of time testing this nuance.
 
netispguy
newbie
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:29 am

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:41 pm

It would be really nice if this got fixed!
 
freezer
just joined
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:17 pm
Contact:

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:23 pm

I was asked by support person to check if it is an AC or 80MHz wide channel deciding factor. I did test it and in my case it seems the problem exists also on AC 40MHz wide channel.
-Greg
Skype: freezer_szczecin
 
User avatar
harvey
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:16 pm

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:22 pm

The only common factor for me is ipv6. With it off problem goes away. Currently running ac at 80mhz and all fine. As soon as I unable ipv6 it dies. If you disable ipv6 also make sure your clients are not being allocated and don’t have an ipv6 address too.
 
netispguy
newbie
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:29 am

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:11 pm

I was asked by support person to check if it is an AC or 80MHz wide channel deciding factor. I did test it and in my case it seems the problem exists also on AC 40MHz wide channel.
I tried the same thing... no change with 40 MHZ wide channel... I still have all AC disabled.
 
netispguy
newbie
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:29 am

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:23 pm

The only common factor for me is ipv6. With it off problem goes away. Currently running ac at 80mhz and all fine. As soon as I unable ipv6 it dies. If you disable ipv6 also make sure your clients are not being allocated and don’t have an ipv6 address too.
I origionally thought it might have something to do with IPv6; however, I am not sure I can easily disable IPv6. We have an assigned static prefix and a number of our devices (such as disk arrays, etc.) are passing a lot of native traffic over IPv6. The general PC/Macs are also.

Our neighbor has a full commercial UBNT deployment. This problem is not happening over there, which I have personally verified. The suggestion came up last week that in the absence of any comment from Mikrotik (and they have stopped responding to inquiries related to my support ticket), we should consider changing platform away from Mikrotik. Who is at fault is irrelevant; we just need our networks to work. I have been tasked to pull some quotes from vendors to do this, but I really would rather not. We have a holiday shutdown planned where we could do the conversion, but that would mean no holiday for my staff... :(.

****** Mikrotik, PLEASE COMMENT....
 
User avatar
Chupaka
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 8142
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:15 pm
Location: Minsk, Belarus
Contact:

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:25 pm

The only common factor for me is ipv6. With it off problem goes away.
By 'off' you mean complete disabling of 'ipv6' package or just disabling IPv6 DHCP Server / ND so that devices don't get ipv6 routable addresses?
Russian-speaking forum: https://forum.mikrotik.by/. Welcome!

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.

MikroTik. Your life. Your routing.
 
User avatar
harvey
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:16 pm

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:01 pm

The only common factor for me is ipv6. With it off problem goes away.
By 'off' you mean complete disabling of 'ipv6' package or just disabling IPv6 DHCP Server / ND so that devices don't get ipv6 routable addresses?
I’m using 6to4 so I disable the sit interface, disable the ip address on the wan and lan including the advertise. I then force the client to loose its ipv6 address and that’s enough. Ipv6 package is still active.
 
netispguy
newbie
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:29 am

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:09 pm

The only common factor for me is ipv6. With it off problem goes away.
By 'off' you mean complete disabling of 'ipv6' package or just disabling IPv6 DHCP Server / ND so that devices don't get ipv6 routable addresses?
I’m using 6to4 so I disable the sit interface, disable the ip address on the wan and lan including the advertise. I then force the client to loose its ipv6 address and that’s enough. Ipv6 package is still active.
Interesting workaround; however, not a good solution for us. Disabling A/N/AC and going with just A/N @ 40Mhz works, although we don't get the performance we would like...
 
User avatar
Chupaka
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 8142
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:15 pm
Location: Minsk, Belarus
Contact:

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:40 am

Did anyone tried to debug the problem a bit deeper? Like sniffing phone's packets to see what goes wrong.
Russian-speaking forum: https://forum.mikrotik.by/. Welcome!

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.

MikroTik. Your life. Your routing.
 
netispguy
newbie
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:29 am

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:12 pm

Did anyone tried to debug the problem a bit deeper? Like sniffing phone's packets to see what goes wrong.
I have tried, but I found nothing conclusive. I have also supplied logs to Apple.

Somebody please set my expectations. I have opened a ticket with Mikrotik (Ticket#2018101122002554), but I have not seen any reasonable responses. I have collaborated with folks in this topic thread and even brought up the subject in the "v6.44beta [testing] is released! (viewtopic.php?f=21&t=139057).

It seems like this issue is not being taken very seriously by Mikrotik... should I assume that this problem is not going to get fixed?

Frustrated...
 
uldis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 3392
Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 2:55 pm

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:30 am

By saying the local traffic works - it works with multiple hops inside your network (no NAT/Masquerade)? So as soon as the traffic goes over the NAT/Masquerade you start seeing the problem?
It is possible the problem related to the TCP traffic as the L2TP VPN uses UDP protocol.

We are now trying to reproduce the problem with the minimal configuration to make the problem reproduce all the time not just random time.
What is the best website or app to see the problem more frequently to appear?

Could you help us by telling the below info which works or doesn't work for you:
1. Does it happen with all the center channel frequencies?
2. AC with one chain enabled and 20mhz width
3. AC with one chain enabled and 20/40 width
4. AC with one chain enabled and 20/4080 width
5. AC with two chain enabled and 20mhz width
7. AC with two chain enabled and 20/40 width
8. AC with two chain enabled and 20/4080 width
 
netispguy
newbie
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:29 am

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:36 am

By saying the local traffic works - it works with multiple hops inside your network (no NAT/Masquerade)? So as soon as the traffic goes over the NAT/Masquerade you start seeing the problem?
It is possible the problem related to the TCP traffic as the L2TP VPN uses UDP protocol.

We are now trying to reproduce the problem with the minimal configuration to make the problem reproduce all the time not just random time.
What is the best website or app to see the problem more frequently to appear?

Could you help us by telling the below info which works or doesn't work for you:
1. Does it happen with all the center channel frequencies?
2. AC with one chain enabled and 20mhz width
3. AC with one chain enabled and 20/40 width
4. AC with one chain enabled and 20/4080 width
5. AC with two chain enabled and 20mhz width
7. AC with two chain enabled and 20/40 width
8. AC with two chain enabled and 20/4080 width
Thanks for responding!

I just observed that pinging local devices seems to work, but nothing analytical has been tested to prove that local traffic is working correctly. I agree that it might be a TCP problem. Things are broken for most websites and applications (e.g. imap/pop mail, google.com, yahoo.com, iCloud login, Apple App store, etc). Sometimes these site/apps timeout, other times they partially load, and occasionally they go through; however, SpeedTest does work but it can take a long time to find a server, if not just time out like the others. Once it does find a server and starts, it functions properly. The actual SpeedTest packets may be going over UDP. So, the problem is not specific to any one website or application.

I am seeing this on all of the configs you have listed above:
1: yes... broken at all center channels, including XXXX
2-4: (chain 0 only): Broken at all widths (20 20/40 and 20/40/80)
5-8: (chain 0, chain 1): Broken at all widths (20 20/40 and 20/40/80)
Extra: (chain 0, chain 1, chain 2): Broken at all widths (20 20/40 and 20/40/80)
Extra2: Everything works fine if you turn off AC and just use 5GHz A/N (at all channel and chain configurations)

I am sure that if you put one of these Apple Xs devices on your net, you should be able to quickly see the problem I have done all of the above tests on a hAP 962UiGS-5HacT2HnT running 6.43.4, but my other MT models show the same issue. The test device is just an acting as an AP bridge, with no routing or NAT. I set-up this unit specifically for this test. We have a core router that is not broadcasting any WiFI, and the configuration on that unit has remained unchanged throughout this process. Any NAT/Masquerade is upstream from the APs on the core router. So, with this test unit in AC mode we see the problem; however, the other APs with AC disabled are working fine.
 
uldis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 3392
Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 2:55 pm

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:23 am

netispguy, thank you for sharing us the information. For now we are unable to reproduce the issue, the websites opens ok, the, speedtest is ok as well.
Do you have ipv6 also running or just IPv4?
Which DNS server you are using - some local one from the Router our some other public DNS?
If you try to access some local lan - routed network services, do they work ok? Or problem happens when you go over the NAT?
Have you noticed some specific websites that fails to load?
 
freezer
just joined
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:17 pm
Contact:

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:40 pm

Uldis, couple facts that I have observed. Just FYI I'm using "cAP AC" running 6.43.2.

- The problem persists even after yesterdays update to iOS 12.1
- I am convinced the problem is in DNS communication (!) - somehow suppressed by Mikrotik cAP AC 802.11ac link - why I think so? - you will read below.
- I am using manually configured DNS on my iPhone XS - set to 8.8.8.8
- The DNS and whole "networking" works fine for short time after initial connection to "Mikrotik cAP AC 5GHz 802.11ac" wireless network interface.
- On the iPhone XS initially there is only IPv4 from DHCP Server which is main router - ASUS RT-AC86U
- After some time on my iPhone XS I can see two IPv6 addresses assigned with one IPv6 gateway - which I have no clue where they come from, as my "cAP AC" doesn't have IPv6 module/package enabled nor my ASUS RT-AC86U has IPv6 solicitation configured, nor my ISP is using IPv6 - and it seems after that IPv6 the web browsing stops working, but may be not related.
- I have discovered that when the issue occurs, I can still browse through websites that I have recently opened - like the IP address of the domain is in iPhone's XS cache and I can open new pages of the same website but not new websites or HTTP based applications - IMHO this points to DNS connectivity issues.
- IPv6 addresses also appears after connecting to 2.4GHz interface of the same "cAP AC" and I have zero problems with connectivity or DNS
- Zero issues observed on the iPad Pro when connected to the 802.11ac interface of "cAP AC" - so this is exclusively issue with iPhone XS

I believe somehow the DNS queries or replies from the DNS servers are dropped by Mikrotik when connected to wireless interface configured to 802.11ac.

If my Speedtest app has domains cached and I can use it on my iPhone XS connected to 802.11ac Mikrotik's interface, I can get high performance test results - like 300Mbps down and 95Mbps up, which is my ISPs service that I have.

For other members of this forum. I don't have time right know to set this up, but maybe try to mirror traffic on Mikrotik to external IP address with Wireshark and capture traffic that is generated when the issue occurs.

best regards,
Greg
-Greg
Skype: freezer_szczecin
 
netispguy
newbie
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:29 am

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:14 pm

netispguy, thank you for sharing us the information. For now we are unable to reproduce the issue, the websites opens ok, the, speedtest is ok as well.
Do you have ipv6 also running or just IPv4?
Which DNS server you are using - some local one from the Router our some other public DNS?
If you try to access some local lan - routed network services, do they work ok? Or problem happens when you go over the NAT?
Have you noticed some specific websites that fails to load?
I am shocked you do not see this problem. I have a couple of questions for you:
1. Are you testing on an iPhone Xs or XsMax running at least 12.0.1?
2. Are you using a "US" version? My exact version number for my test AP is: RouterBOARD 962UiGS-5HacT2HnT-US. All of my current AP devices are "US" versions.

With regards to your questions:
- For the latest test, the 962UiGS-5HacT2HnT has IPv6 was totally disabled from the package list. Even with it disabled, I still get the same issues.
- I have tried numerous DNS servers, all public. 8.8.8.8 (Google) and 75.75.75.[75-76] (Comcast) are the most common ones I use. I do NOT think this is a DNS problem since with I turn AC off, everything works normally, even with the same DNS configuration.
- All of my other devices that are NOT iPhone Xs variants work normally using all AC configurations, either locally or remote.
- YES!!! I just tested to 4 servers on my local LAN. It appears that I can get to all of my local servers without any issue. It seems that when I NAT/masquerade out to the Internet the problem happens. The error is generally one of a) for websites: "... could not open page because the server stopped responding", or b) for applications: "...failed to connect".
- When going to the Internet, it is not site specific. I am seeing the issue with most website and applications.
- I submitted a Supout.rif to Rudolfs via ticket Ticket#2018101122002554 last night.
- My core router is: 493G (with a 5Ghz radio card added in) running 6.43.4. We have not used the radios in this unit for some time...it is just being used as the edge router. We have both IPv4 and IPv6 static IP addresses.
-100% of everything works on the iPhone Xs[Max] when I turn AC off!

*** Thanks for your continued support!
 
ofer
newbie
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 11:45 am

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:46 pm

Hello,
I have two iPhone XS units and I'm seeing the same issues result with random DNS failure especially while refreshing from the phone.
Things has gotten better with 12.1 but I had the issues since initial IOS version (v12) and Mikrotik was at v6.43.2 (now upgraded to 6.43.4)
I have 3xHap AC units and IPv6 package is uninstalled I can still see on the phone that the status of IPv6 addresses is not consistent
And it's not IPv6 addresses that are local (end in fe80)

-Ofer
Last edited by ofer on Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:29 pm, edited 5 times in total.
 
netispguy
newbie
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:29 am

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:52 pm

Uldis, couple facts that I have observed. Just FYI I'm using "cAP AC" running 6.43.2.

- The problem persists even after yesterdays update to iOS 12.1
- I am convinced the problem is in DNS communication (!) - somehow suppressed by Mikrotik cAP AC 802.11ac link - why I think so? - you will read below.
- I am using manually configured DNS on my iPhone XS - set to 8.8.8.8
- The DNS and whole "networking" works fine for short time after initial connection to "Mikrotik cAP AC 5GHz 802.11ac" wireless network interface.
- On the iPhone XS initially there is only IPv4 from DHCP Server which is main router - ASUS RT-AC86U
- After some time on my iPhone XS I can see two IPv6 addresses assigned with one IPv6 gateway - which I have no clue where they come from, as my "cAP AC" doesn't have IPv6 module/package enabled nor my ASUS RT-AC86U has IPv6 solicitation configured, nor my ISP is using IPv6 - and it seems after that IPv6 the web browsing stops working, but may be not related.
- I have discovered that when the issue occurs, I can still browse through websites that I have recently opened - like the IP address of the domain is in iPhone's XS cache and I can open new pages of the same website but not new websites or HTTP based applications - IMHO this points to DNS connectivity issues.
- IPv6 addresses also appears after connecting to 2.4GHz interface of the same "cAP AC" and I have zero problems with connectivity or DNS
- Zero issues observed on the iPad Pro when connected to the 802.11ac interface of "cAP AC" - so this is exclusively issue with iPhone XS

I believe somehow the DNS queries or replies from the DNS servers are dropped by Mikrotik when connected to wireless interface configured to 802.11ac.

If my Speedtest app has domains cached and I can use it on my iPhone XS connected to 802.11ac Mikrotik's interface, I can get high performance test results - like 300Mbps down and 95Mbps up, which is my ISPs service that I have.

For other members of this forum. I don't have time right know to set this up, but maybe try to mirror traffic on Mikrotik to external IP address with Wireshark and capture traffic that is generated when the issue occurs.

best regards,
Greg
I have noticed a few differences than you are seeing:
- When I go to a site that has already been loaded, I do get cached version; however, if I force a "reload" of the site, the problem occurs. I also have the same issue going to other pages on the same website regardless of whether or not I have previously loaded the site.
- I am not at all convinced it is a DNS problem. Why would DNS be an issue using 5GHz A/N/AC and NOT be an issue using 5GHz A/N? Also, I have tried going to websites using their IP address (where DNS is mostly not involved,) and I get the same issue.
- With regards to IPv6 keep the following in mind (look for an IPv6 addressing primer online for more in-depth explanations)
- The IPv6 address protocol is designed to allow "self assignment." Unlike IPv4 where self assignment is really an error when no DHCP server supplies a "lease", IPv6 allows devices to get information (from other IPv6 devices on your network) to set it own unique address. IPv6 also heavily uses "local link" addresses with fe80:: as the prefix. These are "private" IP addresses much like IPv4 uses network 10 or 192.168.X.X. If a device fails to see a valid IPv6 router to the Internet (and thus a public prefix), it will use a local-link address. Most devices (IOS devices included) will shape two addresses. In accordance with IPv6 protocols, first address will be generated based on the unique MAC address of you iPhone. The second address is a "masking" address that sort of scrambles the first address so that your true MAC address is not exposed out on the Internet. The method by which this "masking" is done is documented with the IPv6 addressing protocol.
- So, you will see three addresses on your iPhone: 1) What your iPhone believes to be the IPv6 router (default route), 2) An IPv6 address based on the unique MAC address of your WiFi radio, and 3) a "masked" IP address to use as more secure address when going to a public network.
- Apple IOS does NOT allow you to manually set IPv6 parameters, which pisses me off on a daily basis. (Note: Mac OS X does allow manual IPv6 address configurations).

-Scott
 
netispguy
newbie
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:29 am

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:31 pm

I can also confirm that IOS 12.1 does not fix the problem.
 
freezer
just joined
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:17 pm
Contact:

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:37 am

Netispguy,

thanks for the lecture about IPv6 but I already know that. I’m a system engineer for a large network equipment vendor and I work close with developers - I've seen things people didn't even dream off, so I know what “magic” things can happen under the hood when processing packets (usually these are bugs) - that’s why I still believe this is processing of DNS requests/replies related issue.

You've mentioned even cached sites doesn’t work for you. Bare in mind that almost every regular site is using different domains when loading web page as sources for ads, images, scripts etc so even previously opened one can be stuck when you loose proper DNS connectivity. Same thing if you’re using IP address of web server instead of FQDN. You need very simple web page to test it.

Try using my website http://109.74.108.40/ , you should see a text ":)" even other sites won't open on your iPhone XS.

Best regards,
Greg
-Greg
Skype: freezer_szczecin
 
netispguy
newbie
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:29 am

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:11 am

Netispguy,

thanks for the lecture about IPv6 but I already know that. I’m a system engineer for a large network equipment vendor and I work close with developers - I've seen things people didn't even dream off, so I know what “magic” things can happen under the hood when processing packets (usually these are bugs) - that’s why I still believe this is processing of DNS requests/replies related issue.

You've mentioned even cached sites doesn’t work for you. Bare in mind that almost every regular site is using different domains when loading web page as sources for ads, images, scripts etc so even previously opened one can be stuck when you loose proper DNS connectivity. Same thing if you’re using IP address of web server instead of FQDN. You need very simple web page to test it.

Try using my website http://109.74.108.40/ , you should see a text ":)" even other sites won't open on your iPhone XS.

Best regards,
Greg
Freezer,

Meant no disrespect nor to lecture. When you stated "After some time on my iPhone XS I can see two IPv6 addresses assigned with one IPv6 gateway - which I have no clue where they come from.." I took it as you did not understand how IPv6 worked on the iPhone. I apologise if I misunderstood what you were saying.

- I tried your IP address and did get the ":)". It seems to also work consistently as you stated. I don't have good access to a simple website...I have a lot of cPanel based VPS servers and using a FQDN is pretty much a requirement when hosting multiple sub/add-on domains using a shared address... and I don't have the time to tweak the Apache configs to force using an IP for children domains.

- I am still not totally convinced it is DNS related. Can you explain to me why DNS would break while using 5GHz AC configurations, but work on all other non-AC 5GHz (and 2.5Ghz) configurations? Maybe something is messed up when using AC in combination with NAT/Masquerade (as was mentioned by @uldis) , causing what appears to be DNS issues. And why does it it appear to work on AC configurations when using L2TP and other UDP heavy applications? And why on just these new iPhones? My general intuition would suggest that it is a layer [1-3] issue and not service orientated; however I am 100% okay with being wrong in this assumption and would be happy to hear that DNS (any anything else) was the cause. We just need this fixed!

-Scott
 
freezer
just joined
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:17 pm
Contact:

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:06 pm

Netispguy,

great, I’m glad it worked for you.

First of all, my MikroTik cAP AC is working in pure bridge mode, zero NAT, zero firewall rules so I don’t believe it is NAT related.

I’m suspecting the new iPhone XS is sending DNS requests in different manner - maybe the L2 frame has some extra fields for DNS requests and MikroTik has a bug in processing that particular type of frames when in AC mode - not sure. When using VPN, the DNS requests are encapsulated packets so these are different than the one when you’re not using VPN.

To confirm my theory that it is DNS related issue, install some ping tools on your iPhone XS, like Ping lite, move to AC mode and try to ping FQDN that you didn’t visit before on the iPhone XS. In my case I don’t get the IP address from the DNS server or I get it after very very long time - which seems too long for iOS http protocol to wait and it times out before any browser or app can get the response from DNS. Meanwhile try to ping any public IP address that is replying to ICMP. It should always work for you when in AC mode.

Regarding IPv6,

My iPhone XS and other apple devices are getting non link local IPv6 addresses assigned, that’s why I have zero clue where are they coming from as I don’t have IPv6 enabled router in my network. Also all these devices have exactly same link local IPv6 gateway IP address. I guess one of my CPE devices is giving IPv6 address but I didn’t have time to nail down which one is it.

Best regards,
Greg
Last edited by freezer on Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
-Greg
Skype: freezer_szczecin
 
uldis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 3392
Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 2:55 pm

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:45 pm

unfortunately we are still unable to reproduce it locally.
Maybe you could disable the encryption - use the wireless connection without encryption.
Use 20mhz channel width.
Then use another AC router and start the wireless sniffer on that channel.
Connect with iphone xs to the AP using AC and then try to reproduce the problem. Write down at what time the problem happened or what you were trying to open so we could see that later in the sniffer file. Stop the sniffer and then send that sniffer file to support@mikrotik.com
 
netispguy
newbie
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:29 am

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:36 pm

Freezer,

What do you think about MT not being able to reproduce the problem?

-Scott
 
netispguy
newbie
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:29 am

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:23 pm

Netispguy,

great, I’m glad it worked for you.

First of all, my MikroTik cAP AC is working in pure bridge mode, zero NAT, zero firewall rules so I don’t believe it is NAT related.

I’m suspecting the new iPhone XS is sending DNS requests in different manner - maybe the L2 frame has some extra fields for DNS requests and MikroTik has a bug in processing that particular type of frames when in AC mode - not sure. When using VPN, the DNS requests are encapsulated packets so these are different than the one when you’re not using VPN.

To confirm my theory that it is DNS related issue, install some ping tools on your iPhone XS, like Ping lite, move to AC mode and try to ping FQDN that you didn’t visit before on the iPhone XS. In my case I don’t get the IP address from the DNS server or I get it after very very long time - which seems too long for iOS http protocol to wait and it times out before any browser or app can get the response from DNS. Meanwhile try to ping any public IP address that is replying to ICMP. It should always work for you when in AC mode.

Regarding IPv6,

My iPhone XS and other apple devices are getting non link local IPv6 addresses assigned, that’s why I have zero clue where are they coming from as I don’t have IPv6 enabled router in my network. Also all these devices have exactly same link local IPv6 gateway IP address. I guess one of my CPE devices is giving IPv6 address but I didn’t have time to nail down which one is it.

Best regards,
Greg
Freezer,

I do have PingLite on my iPhone and verified what you are saying. I am always able to ping external hosts using direct IP addresses when in AC mode (while sites requiring DNS are not responding correctly.)

I agree with your IPv6 assessment. There must be another device configured for IPv6 that is doing ND or something.

- With so many people seeing this issue, I am surprised that MT is unable to simulate the problem. I do not have time at the moment to do any additional testing as requested by MT; however seeing that MT is unable to verify that there is even an issue, I am pessimistic that we will see a solution anytime soon. With the problem being so obvious under what I would consider a basic ap-bridge configuration, I don't understand why they don't immediatly see it? All I know is that these new "s" devices are showing up more and more. That being said, we have ordered a few Ubiquity devices to see how well they integrate into our framework. We will continue to use our MT core router (at least for now).

- One more thing, a lot of folks around here use "wifi" calling on the iPhones. For a long time, I have had complaints that the connections would "drop out" from briefly to over 15 seconds. Basically, you hear silence like the other side went away...then they would return. I have experienced this issue myself and always pointed blame at our carrier (AT&T); however, since we disabled AC and went to A/N, this issue has 100% gone away. Just an observation...

-Scott
 
aphreet
just joined
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:48 pm

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:16 pm

Observing the same issue on hap ac. It is configured as wisp ap, wlan is set to use a/n/ac, 80mhz eCee 5280 channel. IPv6 is configured on another mikrotik device.

So iphone xs connected to 802.11ac network can’t even ping external resources using their FQDN, due to failed name resolution. My DNS servers are located on the same L2 segment as iphone, both available via ipv6/ipv4, so this does not look like nat/routing/etc issue. At the same time, ping by ip works fine as well as ping by FQDN when connected to 2.4ghz network on the same AP. Moreover, ipad, macbook, etc. work without any issues.

I tried to disable ipv6 in the network it does not help: ipv4 only setup has the same issues.

I also tried to capture all traffic that is related to mac address of the iphone (via Tools/Packet sniffer), and I can’t even see DNS requests: name resolution silently fails without any packets captured by AP.

So looks like next step is try to capture packets via wireless sniffer, to see if something interesting there.
 
User avatar
normis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 23608
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 11:04 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:51 pm

Yes, any helpful data would be beneficial, since we cannot repeat any of the described issues. I also have an Xs and some other people here do, none of us have seen any issues with hAPac, wAPac or other routers, we have done extensive testing here in the office and also use these devices at home.

The only possibility is that this is region related (iPhones are different), config related or ... I don't even know what else.
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
ofer
newbie
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 11:45 am

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:09 pm

Yes, any helpful data would be beneficial, since we cannot repeat any of the described issues. I also have an Xs and some other people here do, none of us have seen any issues with hAPac, wAPac or other routers, we have done extensive testing here in the office and also use these devices at home.

The only possibility is that this is region related (iPhones are different), config related or ... I don't even know what else.
I have a couple of XS units that were bought in the US and an three units of international HAP AC and I'm seeing these issues with all the routers
Once I modified the wireless parameters to exclude AC everything went away but AFAIK iPhones do not have a region variance other than China models
The only variance is cellular/wireless/bluetooth firmware that is loaded by the region of the Phone as defined in Settings->General->Language & Region->Region
if I can provide any additional details please let me know.

-Ofer
Last edited by ofer on Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
netispguy
newbie
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:29 am

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:25 pm

MT: Have you still not been able go verify this problem? It has not gone away.
 
User avatar
ArtursL
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:50 pm

Re: WAP ac 5GHz issues with iPhone XS

Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:46 pm

We want to understand if this happens with particular iPhone models. Could you please send us the iPhone model and part numbers on which you experience the issue? You can also do it privately by sending it to support@mikrotik.com.

The strings should be something like this:
  • MT9H2ET/A
  • A2097
This particular device performs as expected, no issues seen.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests