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honzam
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InterCell

Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:50 pm

LAN, FTTx, Wireless. ISP operator
 
mistry7
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Re: InterCell

Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:08 pm

No benefit for us, these licensed Frequency's are impossible to use here in Germany.......
 
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Re: InterCell

Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:21 pm

You can't "use them".

InterCell is a base station that can be ONLY used if you are a licensed mobile operator. And if you are, you need to buy the license for B38 anyway.
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Re: InterCell

Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:29 pm

You can't "use them".

InterCell is a base station that can be ONLY used if you are a licensed mobile operator. And if you are, you need to buy the license for B38 anyway.
For Germany only 3,5GHz was licensable for regional WISPs. This moves to 3,7-3,8 which renders our WiMAX Equipment useless. Do you plan to support 3,7-3,8?
 
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Re: InterCell

Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:32 pm

Some MNOs might find those boxes handy. However, in Europe I expect most MNOs have licensed parts of band 34 (came as by-product of 2.1GHz UMTS) instead of band 39.

I wonder how these boxes get synchronized (necessary to run them with coverage overlapping).
BR,
Metod
 
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Re: InterCell

Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:34 pm

This is not for regional WISPS. This is for country mobile operators, Vodafone and the likes. Or anyone who can get a license, for sure, yes.
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Re: InterCell

Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:42 pm

Some MNOs might find those boxes handy. However, in Europe I expect most MNOs have licensed parts of band 34 (came as by-product of 2.1GHz UMTS) instead of band 39.

I wonder how these boxes get synchronized (necessary to run them with coverage overlapping).
Yes, this product mostly is for module operators and the license holders, who owns those frequencies in the country.

Yes, as you can see in the specification the Intercell series support GPS synchronisation for TDD bands,
Band 39 overlaps with Band33 which can be also optionally be allowed to choose for B39 product.
 
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Re: InterCell

Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:45 pm

You can't "use them".

InterCell is a base station that can be ONLY used if you are a licensed mobile operator. And if you are, you need to buy the license for B38 anyway.
For Germany only 3,5GHz was licensable for regional WISPs. This moves to 3,7-3,8 which renders our WiMAX Equipment useless. Do you plan to support 3,7-3,8?
Are you referring to LTE Band43 for the 3.7ghz?
http://niviuk.free.fr/lte_band.php

We might consider that but it depends on the demand and also the software/hardware requirements of the products. If you know lot of license holders for the 3.7ghz you can ask them what kind of product they require and then contact support@mikrotik.com with that information.
 
ste
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Re: InterCell

Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:44 pm

You can't "use them".

InterCell is a base station that can be ONLY used if you are a licensed mobile operator. And if you are, you need to buy the license for B38 anyway.
For Germany only 3,5GHz was licensable for regional WISPs. This moves to 3,7-3,8 which renders our WiMAX Equipment useless. Do you plan to support 3,7-3,8?
Are you referring to LTE Band43 for the 3.7ghz?
http://niviuk.free.fr/lte_band.php

We might consider that but it depends on the demand and also the software/hardware requirements of the products. If you know lot of license holders for the 3.7ghz you can ask them what kind of product they require and then contact support@mikrotik.com with that information.

Yes it is part of Band 43 (3600-3800). As said this is the only band which we could license regional. All lower frequencies are auctioned nationwide.
You might consider doing a product for USA CBRS Band (3550-3700) and make it work up to 3800 to do both markets with one product.

WISPs are your customers. Dont know if the Vodafone-People give you an audience and trash Huawei/ZTE/... ;-).

We have 2*10 MHz in 3,4-3,6 now which we cant renew after 10 years. 3,4-3,6 will be auctioned nationwide for 5G.
 
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Re: InterCell

Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:57 pm

Unfortunately we can't make the Product that supports both B43 and B48 so you would need to choose which one you would need.
Any other requirements - output power, CA support, bandwidth width, etc...?
 
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Re: InterCell

Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:37 pm

I wonder how these boxes get synchronized (necessary to run them with coverage overlapping).
Yes, as you can see in the specification the Intercell series support GPS synchronisation for TDD bands,
One thing is for base station to know when to do something (that's what time sync is for), another thing is for base station to know what to do at that time. In traditional mobile networks this is configured through centralized O&M solutions and through special signalling connections between all base stations (X2 in LTE in particular).

So I'm wondering if MT offers some O&M solution and if InterCell base stations support all standard interfaces and functions.
BR,
Metod
 
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Re: InterCell

Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:13 pm

You can't "use them".

InterCell is a base station that can be ONLY used if you are a licensed mobile operator. And if you are, you need to buy the license for B38 anyway.
For Germany only 3,5GHz was licensable for regional WISPs. This moves to 3,7-3,8 which renders our WiMAX Equipment useless. Do you plan to support 3,7-3,8?
Are you referring to LTE Band43 for the 3.7ghz?
http://niviuk.free.fr/lte_band.php

We might consider that but it depends on the demand and also the software/hardware requirements of the products. If you know lot of license holders for the 3.7ghz you can ask them what kind of product they require and then contact support@mikrotik.com with that information.
Email sent

Please do make this product, and make it to support the upcoming SAS database for CBRS in addition to the PAL licenses. Most rural wisps will likely be looking into the option of a SAS, at least at first so that they may evaluate how effective the product and band is before dropping the cash on a PAL. Also, some of us (like ourselves) may never purchase a PAL as it’s highly unlikely that the SAS database won’t be plenty sufficient and will allow us to save a lot of money.
 
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Re: InterCell

Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:05 am

we would need more info on the SAS database on the CBRS and that PAL license. Maybe you could share us that info so we would understand what needs to be implemented before making such base station for 3.5ghz in US.
 
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Re: InterCell

Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:26 am

Such an interesting turn.

LTE can be beneficial for WISP though - NBN (National Broadband Network) in Australia are using LTE for their Fixed Wireless roll-outs, however being government run and funded probably got access to frequencies within budget.

A country I do a lot of work in - we have a very close relationship with the government and if we can secure a frequency for cheap enough we would HEAVILY consider pushing this out for WISP as well.
 
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Re: InterCell

Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:23 pm

Unfortunately we can't make the Product that supports both B43 and B48 so you would need to choose which one you would need.
Any other requirements - output power, CA support, bandwidth width, etc...?
B43.
Output power as high as possible. We use this band esp. where 5GHz does not work out.
10/20MHz Channels, Managment as easy as possible. So just bridge the cpes (doing nat there) and allow to give ips with dhcp.
We run Purewave Wimax Basestation.
We do MPLS/VPLS to build a bridged wimax network on top of our ospf network (all routers MT). A central CCR does dhcp/routing/filtering into this bridged network. So a cpe could connect anywhere and always get its ip/routes. Makes managment/handling very simple.
 
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Re: InterCell

Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:37 pm

Such an interesting turn.

LTE can be beneficial for WISP though - NBN (National Broadband Network) in Australia are using LTE for their Fixed Wireless roll-outs, however being government run and funded probably got access to frequencies within budget.

A country I do a lot of work in - we have a very close relationship with the government and if we can secure a frequency for cheap enough we would HEAVILY consider pushing this out for WISP as well.
What LTE frequencies/bands you think the WISPs will be able to use in Australia? And what would be the demand for such LTE Base Stations?
 
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Re: InterCell

Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:42 pm

Unfortunately we can't make the Product that supports both B43 and B48 so you would need to choose which one you would need.
Any other requirements - output power, CA support, bandwidth width, etc...?
B43.
Output power as high as possible. We use this band esp. where 5GHz does not work out.
10/20MHz Channels, Managment as easy as possible. So just bridge the cpes (doing nat there) and allow to give ips with dhcp.
We run Purewave Wimax Basestation.
We do MPLS/VPLS to build a bridged wimax network on top of our ospf network (all routers MT). A central CCR does dhcp/routing/filtering into this bridged network. So a cpe could connect anywhere and always get its ip/routes. Makes managment/handling very simple.
For which country you need that B43?
You need 1W or 10W or even higher output?
2x2MIMO is ok with one radio 5/10/15/20mhz width (no CA support)?
What kind if distance you need to provide?
Would you use our SXT/LHG 4G CPEs for Band43?
How many clients you need per one Base Station?
What would be the demand/volume for such Base Stations?
 
ste
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Re: InterCell

Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:07 pm

Unfortunately we can't make the Product that supports both B43 and B48 so you would need to choose which one you would need.
Any other requirements - output power, CA support, bandwidth width, etc...?
B43.
Output power as high as possible. We use this band esp. where 5GHz does not work out.
10/20MHz Channels, Managment as easy as possible. So just bridge the cpes (doing nat there) and allow to give ips with dhcp.
We run Purewave Wimax Basestation.
We do MPLS/VPLS to build a bridged wimax network on top of our ospf network (all routers MT). A central CCR does dhcp/routing/filtering into this bridged network. So a cpe could connect anywhere and always get its ip/routes. Makes managment/handling very simple.
For which country you need that B43?
You need 1W or 10W or even higher output?
2x2MIMO is ok with one radio 5/10/15/20mhz width (no CA support)?
What kind if distance you need to provide?
Would you use our SXT/LHG 4G CPEs for Band43?
How many clients you need per one Base Station?
What would be the demand/volume for such Base Stations?
Germany,
10W,
2x2 Mimo is OK. Of course other options are welcome but price ...
We use Purewave in Omni Mode (3x 2x2 with one BS with 3 Antennas or with AlphaWireless Polestyle Antennas) or with 3x2 Beamforming Arrays.
10km is the max but most are within 3-4km.
>Would you use our SXT/LHG 4G CPEs for Band43?
yes.
If possible no SIM/CA/... dont want to fiddle with this stuff. We dont give managment access of cpes to our customers.
CPEs/Basestation <= 30. With wlan stuff/802.11ac we do <=20.
We have 50 Sectors running. As Wimax does max 12MBit/s / Customer we move to 5GHz wherever possible.
(20M/2M is our standard package with 5GHz).

There are not much options available ... and they are quite bad in handling (EPC/SIM/...) Stuff which a wisp does not need/want.
 
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Re: InterCell

Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:10 pm

Another request for the CBRS band here in the US.

Right now it's Telrad, Cambium or Baicells.
 
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Re: InterCell

Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:37 pm

Unfortunately we can't make the Product that supports both B43 and B48 so you would need to choose which one you would need.
`
This doesn't make sense to me. The two bands overlap and all of your competitors who have beaten you to market already manufacture such base stations that support both bands. In fact, they must support both because CBRS (B48) isn't yet ready to go in the U.S., so you deploy now in a subset of B43 and then once CBRS is greenlit, you upgrade and reconfigure your existing base station (and set it up to talk to the SAS).

-- Nathan
 
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Re: InterCell

Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:38 pm

B48 would be perfect.

Although not everyone will be able to operate at 10W, the licensing does work in a way that you can be allowed to operate up to 10W, and I would recommend the product support this.

From what I understand, TDD is all that will be allowed in B48 (but I'm unable to verify). What I do know is that it would be more difficult to obtain the additional frequencies to allow for FDD operation, so I would recommend single carrier (this also reduces costs for the wisp on the equipment). One cell 20mhz (2x2MIMO).

Licensing is a bit different, there are 3 licenses allowed. Grandfathered NN and DoD licenses for existing folks, PAL licenses that are available at auction, and lastly GAA (General Authorized Access). The incumbent licenses in NN and DoD are pretty easy to apply, but PAL and GAA will require the AP to contact the SAS (Spectrum Access System) which will assign frequency and transmit to each base station. This is what we need support for as it allows folks new to the band to get their feet wet. In the future, it is highly unlikely that people will be obtaining their coordination through NN or DoD, they will be purchasing PALs or operating in GAA. Baicells has a good writeup on this:

https://na.baicells.com/2016/12/28/cbrs-band/
 
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Re: InterCell

Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:50 pm

Another request for the CBRS band here in the US.

Right now it's Telrad, Cambium or Baicells.
`
Technically Cambium's 3.6GHz LTE product is not shipping yet, and is still a ways out (especially the 8x8 MIMO version where the Medusa is used as a radio head...that's even farther out than B48 support in general). Not holding my breath for this.

There are a few other options from newer players, like Blinq. I suppose you could also go the CableFree route as well.

-- Nathan
 
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Re: InterCell

Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:23 pm

Could you give us more information about the EPC?
And how about the SIM Cards and antennas, are MikroTik thinking about that as well?
Thanks
 
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Re: InterCell

Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:13 pm

What LTE frequencies/bands you think the WISPs will be able to use in Australia? And what would be the demand for such LTE Base Stations?
For Australia - next to impossible for LTE I think - too much regulation and too expensive. I work in a less-developed country outside of Australia where if I could get a supported frequency I would definitely consider LTE.

Outside of LTE specifically, something either in 3ghz or 6ghz would be good for licensed spectrum to get away from over-saturated 5ghz. Or if LTE is compatible to such frequencies.
 
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Re: InterCell

Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:42 pm

Unfortunately we can't make the Product that supports both B43 and B48 so you would need to choose which one you would need.
`
This doesn't make sense to me. The two bands overlap and all of your competitors who have beaten you to market already manufacture such base stations that support both bands. In fact, they must support both because CBRS (B48) isn't yet ready to go in the U.S., so you deploy now in a subset of B43 and then once CBRS is greenlit, you upgrade and reconfigure your existing base station (and set it up to talk to the SAS).

-- Nathan
The Baseband unit can support all 3 bands 42/43/48 but the problem is to find the Filters/PAs for whole range so there is only for each band separately. So you can make product that supports only one of the band or the other band that overlaps with the main band.
So we could make a B48 product and it would support upper part of the B42 and lower part of the B43
 
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Re: InterCell

Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:48 pm

Could you give us more information about the EPC?
And how about the SIM Cards and antennas, are MikroTik thinking about that as well?
Thanks
We will be update the software and now we have updated the specification and the built-in EPC will support up to 256 clients.
About the SIM cards you will be able to program your own SIM cards from empty SIM cards to use with the built-in EPC. For external EPC you can use the SIM cards that are associated to the central EPC unit.
Antennas you can use 3rd party as there should be lot of outdoor antennas for those bands, just make sure the supported input power would hold 40dbm/10w.
 
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Re: InterCell

Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:21 pm

The Baseband unit can support all 3 bands 42/43/48 but the problem is to find the Filters/PAs for whole range so there is only for each band separately. So you can make product that supports only one of the band or the other band that overlaps with the main band.
So we could make a B48 product and it would support upper part of the B42 and lower part of the B43
I would say whatever you do, the B48 band needs to be the focus as that is what most new operators will be deploying. Supporting the chunks of B42/B43 that overlap will be good for the additional use, but keep in mind the operators that already hold these licenses for these bands have likely already deployed networks. They might want to forklift to InterCell, they might not. I would recommend the B48 product with the single filter that can support parts of 42/43 for now as 48 WILL have a high demand.
 
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Re: InterCell

Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:33 am

Any other bands than band 38 + 39?
 
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Re: InterCell

Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:36 am

Any other bands than band 38 + 39?
Which bands you need? The B38 can also support part of B41 and B39 can support part of B33 via Band mapping.
 
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Re: InterCell

Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:20 pm

Any other bands than band 38 + 39?
Which bands you need? The B38 can also support part of B41 and B39 can support part of B33 via Band mapping.
Uldis,

I imagine that it could be awhile for Mikrotik to make a decision on this, let alone the development, and additional time to see final equipment. Should we just keep checking back here? At what point could you possibly update us on any info? Just curious, as even if a decision is made it might need to be kept quiet until the process is further along.
 
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Re: InterCell

Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:32 am

Any other bands than band 38 + 39?
Which bands you need? The B38 can also support part of B41 and B39 can support part of B33 via Band mapping.
Uldis,

I imagine that it could be awhile for Mikrotik to make a decision on this, let alone the development, and additional time to see final equipment. Should we just keep checking back here? At what point could you possibly update us on any info? Just curious, as even if a decision is made it might need to be kept quiet until the process is further along.
We are researching now this but most likely if we would make such product it would be B48 based with Band mapping to B42/B43 overlapping frequencies within B48.
 
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Re: InterCell

Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:42 am

Hi,

I am quite interested in this product.

I already have a complete B38 system with an 2-sector eNodeB and EPC.
I have seen that you can connect it to an external EPC, so that's good.

What about VoLTE support ? Will we be able to link it to an IPBX ? eMBMS support ? Multiple Bearers ?

Is the user limit a software limit ? With my external EPC can I have more users / cell ?

Thanks,

Arthur
Last edited by arthourr on Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: InterCell

Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:53 am

Hi,

I already have an EPC + 2-sector B38 eNodeB. I would use the singleband module as a complement to increase coverage.

Output Power is not an issue but user limit is. Since I have an external EPC, is this limitation still present ?

How is the VoLTE service made ? Can we connect it to an IPBX like Asterisk ?
What about eMBMS and multiple bearers support ?

Thanks,

Arthur
Last edited by arthourr on Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: InterCell

Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:58 am

Hi,

I am quite interested in this product.

I already have a complete B38 system with an 2-sector eNodeB and EPC.
I have seen that you can connect it to an external EPC, so that's good.

What about VoLTE support ? Will we be able to link it to an IPBX ? eMBMS support ? Multiple Bearers ?

Is the user limit a software limit ? With my external EPC can I have more users / cell ?

Thanks,

Arthur
Yes, you can connect to external EPC, then the limit is only by hardware 96 active clients per cell and 192 clients connected_idle per cell.
Yes, the Base Stations will support VoLTE option. Yes, you will be able to configure multiple bearers with different QOS.
In which country you are using/installing the B38 Base Stations?
 
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Re: InterCell

Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:05 pm

Sorry for the double post ...

I will be using those in France, I request temporary licences.

About the VoLTE, as I understand it, you just support the dedicated ims and sos bearer but you do not include an full IMS suite, am I wrong ?
 
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Re: InterCell

Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:36 pm

About the VoLTE, as I understand it, you just support the dedicated ims and sos bearer but you do not include an full IMS suite, am I wrong ?
VoLTE is all about IMS core (which is separate from EPC!). On radio part (base stations) it only requires support for dedicated bearers (in addition to default bearer, so base station has to support multi bearer) with certain QoS profiles (how those profiles translate to radio-speciffic settings is up to radio equipment vendor to implement and up to operator to set). VoLTE requires some support from EPC though, but if you'll be using your own EPC it's really up to how your existing EPC supports VoLTE.
BR,
Metod
 
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Re: InterCell

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:31 pm

Hi @mkx,

I am perfectly aware about IMS IR.92 and IR.95 requirements. I just wanted to be sure about IMS core integration into the InterCell devices.

I have mailed my supplier for a quote. This device is perfect for a coverage complement.

BR,

Arthur
 
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Re: InterCell

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:13 am

are i want antenna ??? and special EPC ???
or only i want internet and sim card ???

as i mean
intercell include EPC Built-in ... ??
if i have internet and sim card
can i Active sim card direct with intercell by OS EPC Built-in ... ?
How many users can Connected at the same time ?
what are you mean ( Connected active users 96 per cell , RRC connected users 192 per cell ) ??
 
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Re: InterCell

Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:53 pm

Good day, what is the approximate cost of the sector and antenna. Our company deploys wireless networks in Kazakhstan, we use Mikrotik current everywhere in the network. We have a frequency of 20 MHz in a range of 2.5 GHz. To expand and scale the network and services we want to use Mikrotik LTE Base Stations and CPE.
 
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Re: InterCell

Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:47 pm

At this price range LTE enode B with this RF power level, assuming RX sensitivity is stellar as well will be very very interesting product for many.
Definitely adding more frequency bands will be extremely important if Mikrotik team is really serious about this 3.5Ghz etc.

I would like to know following:
1) does this product includes support for X2/S1 mobility,
2) are there plans for UL MIMO support
3) how about dual connectivity features
4) any plans for 5.8GHz version of this product with full mobility support, we would be happy with just upper 5.8 with no LBT.

Thank you
 
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Re: InterCell

Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:11 pm

Hi,

I am quite interested in this product.

I already have a complete B38 system with an 2-sector eNodeB and EPC.
I have seen that you can connect it to an external EPC, so that's good.

What about VoLTE support ? Will we be able to link it to an IPBX ? eMBMS support ? Multiple Bearers ?

Is the user limit a software limit ? With my external EPC can I have more users / cell ?

Thanks,

Arthur
can you contact me
email : sasegcom@hotmail.com
 
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Re: InterCell

Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:41 pm

Here in UK the regulator (OFCOM) published a consultation outlining plans to release shared access spectrum in the following bands:
  • Band 3 (1800 MHz) - 2 x 3.3 MHz [FDD] - principally for use with narrowband waveforms
  • Band 40 (2300 MHz) - 1 x 10 MHz [TDD] - principally for use with LTE TDD waveforms (5 MHz channels?)
  • New band (3.8 - 4.2 GHz) - for use with new 5G/NG-Radio waveforms (20 MHz channels?)
Full version of the consultation is at https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/ ... vation.pdf

Bands 38 and 39 are of very limited use - as all spectrum in these bands have been allocated to existing Mobile Network Operators.

So - the IDEAL band for the UK would be BAND 40

Also - I am putting together a case for use of LTE-TD by Radio Amateurs (as part of an Emergency Communications framework). As the bottom half of Band 40 is shared with existing Radio Amateur 13 cm band, this makes it the preferred band for this form of operation.

I ended up filling a vacant slot at the TAPR-DCC in Chicago a couple of years ago where I made an impromptu speech outlining possible Amateur LTE use (note - I was not expecting to do this, was not prepared - and only did it because another Brit failed to make it to the event in time!). Video is at https://youtu.be/csGJ-pye2lM

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