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bali2006
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MultiSSID AccessPoint with tagged VLAN problem

Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:14 pm

Hi folks,

I'm quite new to Mikrotik RouterOS. I've a RB3011 for my house rackmounted and a RB2011UiAS-IN for testing purposes.
So for now, I'm talking about the configuration of the RB2011.

I'm trying to get a TP-Link WA901ND access point connected in a multissid configuration.

I need 4 SSIDs, each in a different VLAN. I'll have VLANS 100,101,102 and 103 for the accesspoint. In a first step,
I don't want that devices connected to different VLANs over WiFi can connect to each other, only VLAN100 should
be able to access another computer connected to ether4, which sits also in VLAN100. Access point is connected to ether5.

To achieve this, I did the following:
Created a bridge device bridge1, with ethernet ports ether4 and ether5. Also, I've created four VLAN interfaces (VLAN100, VLAN101, ...)
assigned the corresponding vlan-id to them (100,101,...) set the interface=bridge1 and added these ports also to bridge1.
I assigned vlans 100-103 to the bridge (bridge1) and set ether5 tagged and additionally for vlan 100 ether4 to untagged.
Now I created four IP addresses (one for each VLAN Interface) 192.168.<vlan-id>.1 and also dhcp servers for each network (Class C).
/interface bridge
add name=bridge1 vlan-filtering=yes
/interface vlan
add interface=bridge1 name=VLAN100 vlan-id=100
add interface=bridge1 name=VLAN101 vlan-id=101
add interface=bridge1 name=VLAN102 vlan-id=102
add interface=bridge1 name=VLAN103 vlan-id=103
/interface wireless security-profiles
set [ find default=yes ] supplicant-identity=MikroTik
/ip pool
add name=dhcp_pool0 ranges=192.168.100.100-192.168.100.200
add name=dhcp_pool1 ranges=192.168.101.100-192.168.101.200
add name=dhcp_pool2 ranges=192.168.102.100-192.168.102.200
add name=dhcp_pool3 ranges=192.168.103.100-192.168.103.200
/ip dhcp-server
add address-pool=dhcp_pool0 disabled=no interface=VLAN100 name=dhcp1
add address-pool=dhcp_pool1 disabled=no interface=VLAN101 name=dhcp2
add address-pool=dhcp_pool2 disabled=no interface=VLAN102 name=dhcp3
add address-pool=dhcp_pool3 disabled=no interface=VLAN103 name=dhcp4
/interface bridge port
add bridge=bridge1 comment="Raspberry PI" frame-types=admit-only-untagged-and-priority-tagged interface=ether4 pvid=100
add bridge=bridge1 comment="Access Point (vlans 100-103)" frame-types=admit-only-vlan-tagged ingress-filtering=yes interface=ether5
add bridge=bridge1 interface=VLAN100 pvid=100
add bridge=bridge1 interface=VLAN101 pvid=101
add bridge=bridge1 interface=VLAN102 pvid=102
add bridge=bridge1 interface=VLAN103 pvid=103
/interface bridge vlan
add bridge=bridge1 tagged=ether5 untagged=ether4,VLAN100 vlan-ids=100
add bridge=bridge1 tagged=ether5 vlan-ids=101
add bridge=bridge1 tagged=ether5 vlan-ids=102
add bridge=bridge1 tagged=ether5 vlan-ids=103
/ip address
add address=192.168.101.1/24 interface=VLAN101 network=192.168.101.0
add address=192.168.100.1/24 interface=VLAN100 network=192.168.100.0
add address=192.168.102.1/24 interface=VLAN102 network=192.168.102.0
add address=192.168.103.1/24 interface=VLAN103 network=192.168.103.0
add address=192.168.88.1/24 interface=ether10 network=192.168.88.0
/ip dhcp-server network
add address=192.168.100.0/24 gateway=192.168.100.1
add address=192.168.101.0/24 gateway=192.168.101.1
add address=192.168.102.0/24 gateway=192.168.102.1
add address=192.168.103.0/24 gateway=192.168.103.1
So, what else should I do, to get things working? Your help is very much appreciated.
Am I'm going wrong to put everything on the same bridge? I thought starting 6.41 this is kind of the right way.

Kind regards
Richard
 
quackyo
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Re: MultiSSID AccessPoint with tagged VLAN problem

Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:02 pm

add bridge tagged to the vlans to get the router CPU to see the VLANs...
like this:

/interface bridge vlan
add bridge=bridge1 tagged=ether5,bridge1 untagged=ether4,VLAN100 vlan-ids=100
add bridge=bridge1 tagged=ether5,bridge1 vlan-ids=101
add bridge=bridge1 tagged=ether5,bridge1 vlan-ids=102
add bridge=bridge1 tagged=ether5,bridge1 vlan-ids=103

when things are working you need to use firewall to stop the routing you don't want to happen between vlans.
 
mkx
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Re: MultiSSID AccessPoint with tagged VLAN problem

Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:18 pm

In addition to what @quackyo wrote, remove these:
/interface bridge port
add bridge=bridge1 interface=VLAN100 pvid=100
add bridge=bridge1 interface=VLAN101 pvid=101
add bridge=bridge1 interface=VLAN102 pvid=102
add bridge=bridge1 interface=VLAN103 pvid=103
They'd cause a loop on bridge ... only ether4 and ether5 should be bridge ports ...

Mentioning of VLAN100 in the following config is error as well:
/interface bridge vlan
add bridge=bridge1 tagged=ether5,bridge1 untagged=ether4,VLAN100 vlan-ids=100
BR,
Metod
 
anav
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Re: MultiSSID AccessPoint with tagged VLAN problem

Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:57 pm

Comments, the requirements stated are okay, a diagram would have helped and more details but it suffices.
Basically you have four VLANS you want associated with 4 SSIDs on a TP Link Access Point on ether5
vlan100 is also to be used on ether4 for the purposes probably of providing DNS via a pi device?
I should state that the comment of all users on vlan100 on the wifi side should be able to connect to only one device/IP on vlan100 existing on eth4 is moot.
Being in the same vlan they are connected at layer 2 and all can see all within vlan100)


Mkx noted what I picked up but in plain english........
These are not ports and thus should not be defined under /interface bridge ports but under /interface vlan as lgbtq non-sexual indicator (aka mkx) pointed out.
add bridge=bridge1 interface=VLAN100 pvid=100
add bridge=bridge1 interface=VLAN101 pvid=101
add bridge=bridge1 interface=VLAN102 pvid=102
add bridge=bridge1 interface=VLAN103 pvid=103

As pcunite explains,
the bridge ports detail to some extent the INGRESS traffic rules.
the interface bridge vlans detail to some extent the EGRESS traffic rules.

hence
/interface bridge port
add bridge=bridge1 comment="Raspberry PI" frame-types=admit-only-untagged-and-priority-tagged interface=ether4 pvid=100
add bridge=bridge1 comment="Access Point (vlans 100-103)" frame-types=admit-only-vlan-tagged ingress-filtering=yes interface=ether5

tells me that you have two ports on your router that will be carrying VLANS.
(1) ether 4 will be used as an access port and only is expecting and allowing untagged frames (and priority tagged whatever that means QoS?) and when they enter the port will be tagged with PVID 100 and sent to any other ports associated with VLAN100.
(2) ether 5 will be a trunk port carrying 3 vlans and will allow only vlan tagged frames to enter the port and ingress filtering will only allow tagged frames that correspond to existing vlans on the bridge (I forget the command where to only allow the vlan ids for that port only vice all of the ones listed in the bridge)

Next we can then look at the bridge vlans and the key here is that we must ensure the bridge does not get confused between ports and vlans, so each VLAN should be distinctly identified so that the bridge does not make any errors......
/interface bridge vlan
add bridge=bridge1 tagged=ether5,bridge1 untagged=ether4,VLAN100 vlan-ids=100
add bridge=bridge1 tagged=ether5,bridge1 vlan-ids=101
add bridge=bridge1 tagged=ether5,bridge1 vlan-ids=102
add bridge=bridge1 tagged=ether5,bridge1 vlan-ids=103

The first rule is important because it states upon egress the vlanid100 packets exiting ether4 must be stripped of their vlan tags.
The packets going to the access point via eth5 should keep their tags..........

As far as the last three rules, this could be written as
add bridge=bridge1 tagged=ether5,bridge1 vlan-ids=101,102,103

There is no conflict, or possible error the bridge can make - any packets with those three vlan-ids should exit the port with those vlan tags intact.........
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
 
bali2006
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Re: MultiSSID AccessPoint with tagged VLAN problem

Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:30 pm

Thank you guys a lot for your input. This is very helpful to me.
The Pi on Port4 is just for some testing and playing purposes to understand how the MicrotTik and its
configuration works - so lab only.

Tomorrow I'll provide a detailed network diagram, sorry that I didn't provide one yet.

As today's valentines day, I suspect, that my wife doesn't want me to fiddle around with my new MikroTik -
so I'll test everything tomorrow and provide detailed feedback.

As for now, thanks a lot for your help an explanations - I think, thinks are getting clearer :-)

Kind regards
Richard
 
bali2006
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Re: MultiSSID AccessPoint with tagged VLAN problem

Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:31 pm

In addition to what @quackyo wrote, remove these:
/interface bridge port
add bridge=bridge1 interface=VLAN100 pvid=100
add bridge=bridge1 interface=VLAN101 pvid=101
add bridge=bridge1 interface=VLAN102 pvid=102
add bridge=bridge1 interface=VLAN103 pvid=103
They'd cause a loop on bridge ... only ether4 and ether5 should be bridge ports ...
Maybe someone can shed a bit of light in this statement. Why do I need to remove the VLAN interfaces from the bridge ports? I've gone through some tutorials and all of them
added the VLAN interfaces as bridge port - maybe they're all wrong, but I would like to understand this in detail.
So I'm happy to receive any detailed explanation.

Kind regards
Richard
 
anav
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Re: MultiSSID AccessPoint with tagged VLAN problem

Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:04 pm

Because I said so, which is what those tutorials stated.......
The difference is quite clear, as mkx stated those lines simply define the VLAN, this is properly done under the tab of interfaces, sub tab vlans.
This identification of vlans has nothing to do with bridge ports and vlans.

The bridge port setting is to tell the router
a. which ports belong to the bridge
b. what type of port it is if vlans are on that port (trunk or access) in terms of ingress traffic.
c. if its an access port what is the default vlan-ID that incoming untagged traffic should be tagged with.
d. the selection /bridge interface vlan is mainly to tell the router how to handle egress vlan traffic.

Its more important to know what is being done to the packets and why.........., vice rotely following someone elses config without rhyme or reason. :-)
Dont get me wrong, want to help but not this way.
Not being arrogant either, I know hardly anyting compared to many here....... and I really really suck at Apex Legends, its not unusual for highschool kids to yell at me after the match
"You are the worst team mate ever (imagine in lesser kind terms)................ I should probably point out that the last time I gamed it was on a 56K modem playing doom LOL. (but I am a cheap bastad as the game is free and guess what I buy MT products.........)
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
 
mkx
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Re: MultiSSID AccessPoint with tagged VLAN problem

Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:56 pm

Some (poor) ASCII art to illustrate VLAN interfaces VS. bridge ports:
                      IP address for x       IP address for y
                                  |             |
                                VLANx         VLANy
                                  \           / 
                                  bridge (port)
                                        O
                         bridge (something-like-switch)
                        /       |             |        \
                  ether1      ether2      ether3        ether4
                  (trunk)  (access for   (access for   (another
                              VLANx)       VLANz)       trunk)

The bottom part (ether ports with definition of being either trunk or access) is configured in /interface bridge port and /interface bridge vlan. We can consider that "physical layer".
The lower middle part (bridge below the 'O' sign) is configured in /interface bridge (bridge which acts similarly to ethernet switch).
The upper middle part (bridge above the 'O' sign) is implicitly configured in /interface bridge (every bridge has also associated port with the same name, but acts as a port).
(both middle parts are bridge functionality. A dumb switch (non managed) will only have lower middle part. A managed switch will only feature upper middle part for management. A router will be strong in upper middle part. A router-on-a-stick will lack lower middle part alltogether).
The lower upper part (VLANs) is configured in /interface vlan. If VLANs are not used, this part is not present. Usually we refer to this part when we're talking about VLANs (in big picture). And this part has any VLAN-aware LAN device (sometimes also laptops or IPTV STBs ...).
The uppermost part (IP addresses) is configured in /ip address.

So one should not mix things belonging to lower part with things belonging to upper part (which was done by including VLANx interfaces in /interface bridge port).

The functionality of VLAN interfaces is to take frames, tagged with particular VID, on one side (the one that attaches to interface, in above example it is attached to bridge port), untag them and to push them out on the other side (in example above that's IP layer). In the other direction it does the reverse: takes untagged frames (e.g. from IP layer), tags them with appropriate VID and pushes them to the underlying interface.
In some use cases "the upper side" of VLAN interface (the untagged one) can indeed be a member of a bridge. But those use cases are nowadays mostly obsolete (but tutorials advising such use might still lurk around and users use them because they are not aware that tutorials are describing obsolete ROS version).

In your particular config case the top (untagged) parts of VLAN interfaces were fed back to lower middle part of chart (lower part of bridge) ... all tagged frames, passing bridge, would go through VLAN interface, which would strip tags, and feed untagged frames back to bridge. Then other VLAN interfaces would fetch them (their top part), tag them with their own VID and feed them down to bridge again. At the end, every frame regardless of VID would be pushed to all other VLANs. I can't imagine everything that would go wrong in this case.
BR,
Metod
 
bali2006
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Re: MultiSSID AccessPoint with tagged VLAN problem

Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:50 pm

@anav
@mkx

Thanks you a lot for your very detailed explanations! This helps me a lot in understanding the packet flow and how are things working
in RouterOS. It think, it's a good idea to read your explanations a couple of times to get them sticky in my oblivious brain.
I've already printed out packet flow diagrams and try to understand them.

@anav: I'm absolutely with you, just picking some tutorial from the internet, adapt it to my own needs and be happy doesn't make sense if I didn't
understand what I'm doing and why ... and maybe wrong :-)

I'm very happy, that you both support me in such a great way. THANK YOU!!!

So, now I'm doing some more tests, study the guides and look into my wireshark :-)

Kind regards
Richard
 
anav
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Re: MultiSSID AccessPoint with tagged VLAN problem

Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:02 pm

Awesome Richard, here is a link to the master packet flow diagrams LOL.
https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:Packet_Flow
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
 
bali2006
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Re: MultiSSID AccessPoint with tagged VLAN problem

Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:07 am

Hello guys,

I've configured the device as you've both suggested. My testsetup seems to work - event though its only a part
of what I wanna do, its just testing step by step.

I tried to transfer 2GB of Data from ether3 to ether4. Both are on the bridge. ether1 is in VLAN1 and ether4 is untagged
port in VLAN 100 - but performance is so annoyingly poor :-( I'm getting 22-25 mb/s and routers CPU is at 100% load.

Do you have any clue how to get better performance out of this box?

Attached ist my current configuration
/interface bridge
add name=bridge1 vlan-filtering=yes
/interface vlan
add interface=bridge1 name=VLAN100 vlan-id=100
add interface=bridge1 name=VLAN101 vlan-id=101
add interface=bridge1 name=VLAN102 vlan-id=102
add interface=bridge1 name=VLAN103 vlan-id=103
/interface wireless security-profiles
set [ find default=yes ] supplicant-identity=MikroTik
/ip ipsec proposal
set [ find default=yes ] disabled=yes
/ip pool
add name=dhcp_pool0 ranges=192.168.100.100-192.168.100.200
add name=dhcp_pool1 ranges=192.168.101.100-192.168.101.200
add name=dhcp_pool2 ranges=192.168.102.100-192.168.102.200
add name=dhcp_pool3 ranges=192.168.103.100-192.168.103.200
/ip dhcp-server
add address-pool=dhcp_pool0 disabled=no interface=VLAN100 name=dhcp1
add address-pool=dhcp_pool1 disabled=no interface=VLAN101 name=dhcp2
add address-pool=dhcp_pool2 disabled=no interface=VLAN102 name=dhcp3
add address-pool=dhcp_pool3 disabled=no interface=VLAN103 name=dhcp4
/interface bridge port
add bridge=bridge1 comment="Raspberry PI" frame-types=admit-only-untagged-and-priority-tagged \
    ingress-filtering=yes interface=ether4 pvid=100
add bridge=bridge1 comment="Access Point (vlans 100-103)" ingress-filtering=yes interface=ether5
add bridge=bridge1 comment=Notebook frame-types=admit-only-untagged-and-priority-tagged \
    interface=ether3
/interface bridge vlan
add bridge=bridge1 tagged=ether5,bridge1 untagged=ether4 vlan-ids=100
add bridge=bridge1 tagged=ether5,bridge1 vlan-ids=101
add bridge=bridge1 tagged=ether5,bridge1 vlan-ids=102
add bridge=bridge1 tagged=ether5,bridge1 vlan-ids=103
/ip address
add address=192.168.101.1/24 comment="WiFi SSID 2" interface=VLAN101 network=192.168.101.0
add address=192.168.100.1/24 comment="WiFi SSID 1" interface=VLAN100 network=192.168.100.0
add address=192.168.102.1/24 comment="WiFi SSID 3" interface=VLAN102 network=192.168.102.0
add address=192.168.103.1/24 comment="WiFi SSID 4" interface=VLAN103 network=192.168.103.0
add address=192.168.88.1/24 interface=bridge1 network=192.168.88.0
/ip dhcp-server network
add address=192.168.100.0/24 gateway=192.168.100.1
add address=192.168.101.0/24 gateway=192.168.101.1
add address=192.168.102.0/24 gateway=192.168.102.1
add address=192.168.103.0/24 gateway=192.168.103.1
/ip dns
set allow-remote-requests=yes servers=8.8.8.8
/ip firewall filter
add action=fasttrack-connection chain=forward connection-state=established,related
add action=accept chain=forward connection-state=established,related
/ip ipsec policy
set 0 disabled=yes
/ip traffic-flow
set interfaces=ether10
Kind regards
Richard
 
mkx
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Re: MultiSSID AccessPoint with tagged VLAN problem

Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:58 am

Is that test result 22 mega bytes per second or is it 22 milli bits per second or something else?

My guess is that 22 MBps (mega bytes per second) ... that's 170 Mbps ... is a decent result for RB2011 ... all of the traffic goes through CPU and RB2011 is no beast. Your other RB (3011) should be able to achieve at least 3x better results with the same setup.

When looking at test results (part of specifications page of each RB device) one has to keep in mind that VLAN bridging is not the same as "normal bridging" ... because normal bridging is HW offloaded. VLANs are not so that's more like firewalling (but I guess with low number of rules).
BR,
Metod
 
bali2006
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Re: MultiSSID AccessPoint with tagged VLAN problem

Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:04 pm

@mkx: You're right, it's MBps (Megabytes per second). So, I shouldn't expect more performance when I'm transferring data between VLANs?
Maybe I'm totally wrong, but I expected, that this transfer could be done using hw offloading. Should I use the Switch Chips instead?

The RB2011UiAS has an Atheros8327 for ether1-5 + SFP chip, which can handle 4096 entries in VLAN table. Doesn't that mean,
I can offload it to hardware?

Kind regards
Richard
 
mkx
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Re: MultiSSID AccessPoint with tagged VLAN problem

Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:16 pm

Yup, if you configure stuff on switch chip (that's /interface ethernet switch config subtree) it'll work wirespeed.

The number of VLAN entries doesn't matter (16 could be enough if you only use two - one tagged and one untagged). There are slight differences between settings for bridge vlan-filtering and switch-chip ... read the Wiki, it has all the information. If you'll encounter some difficulties, come back here and we'll help you.
BR,
Metod
 
bali2006
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Re: MultiSSID AccessPoint with tagged VLAN problem

Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:19 pm

Thanks for this Information.
But why did Nobody mention that it is better from a performance perspective to use the Switch chips?

Regards
Richard
 
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Re: MultiSSID AccessPoint with tagged VLAN problem

Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:51 pm

Thanks for this Information. But why did nobody mention that it is better, from a performance perspective, to use the Switch chips?

Because it is in everyone's interest for MikroTik to have an API that does it all for us, that abstracts away the hardware differences. That is what I'm learning. I have no interest in being a hardware guru. Teach me the API, let the magic happen.
 
mkx
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Re: MultiSSID AccessPoint with tagged VLAN problem

Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:55 pm

Because that's old school. It heavily relies on switch chip functionality and configuration details vary between different RB devices according to switch chip used. MT introduced new way of configuring stuff, which is consistent across all RB types, with ambition to have functionalities offloaded to HW if HW allows that. Unfortunately vast majority of devices don't feature HW offloading yet. There are a few devices which don't support VLANs in hardware at all - most notable example is hEX - RB750Gr3 - and SW implementation is "lifesaver" on such devices.

And ... I guess Nobody is not reading this sub-forum ;-) Luckily some other do, such as @pcunite who, BTW, wrote a nice tutorial about how to configure VLANs in ROS.
BR,
Metod
 
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Re: MultiSSID AccessPoint with tagged VLAN problem

Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:43 pm

I started with the hex to learn and now have an upscale RG450gx4 router which has one of the newer chipsets that should permit HW offload and am just waiting for MT to upscale the software to so that I can get wirespeed or close to it with the new fangled methods. ;-)
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
 
bali2006
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Re: MultiSSID AccessPoint with tagged VLAN problem

Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:34 pm

Hi guys,

I got it working - using the switch chip. Transfer speed inter-vlan is now about 98 MByte/s this is compared to
22-23 Mbyte/s I got before great and for my understanding near wire speed. The test was done using
scp, transfering a 3GB file.

So, for now I try to configure the RB2011 to suffice my needs - hope it'll work :-)

Kind regards and thanks a lot for all your detailed explanations.

Richard

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