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vortex
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multigigabit desktop router

Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:34 am

It's high time for a desktop router with at least 2 (better 4) 10GbE ports.

Blocker.
 
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Re: multigigabit desktop router

Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:54 am

How would you use a desktop router with 10 Gb networking? I mean what is the use case?
 
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Re: multigigabit desktop router

Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:15 am

10G FTTH? It's coming (my ISP has started a trial), and I could have used something like a beefed-up RB4011 with 2 SFP+ cages. I have a CCR1036 now, but it is both expensive and large (if you don't have a 19" rack to mount it in).
 
vortex
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Re: multigigabit desktop router

Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:55 pm

How would you use a desktop router with 10 Gb networking? I mean what is the use case?
ISPs have been offering 1Gbps for a long time. SingTel started residential 10Gbps in 2016.

Even coax is being re-wired for 2Gbps. So one would not want to buy a 1Gbps router now. That is what I meant by multigigabit.

2.5, 5, 10GbE computers are inexpensive. 50GbE is not bad, and one could even afford 100GbE.

You can even add it to laptops using Thunderbolt.
 
mada3k
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Re: multigigabit desktop router

Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:22 pm

Residential 10Gbps is ridiculous.
Manages some CCR's, RB750Gr3, RB922 and wAP's
 
mbovenka
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Re: multigigabit desktop router

Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:18 pm

Residential 10Gbps is ridiculous.
Oh, I agree. Won't stop me from getting it as soon as they start offering it, though :) I'm haven't been picked for the trial, alas.
 
vortex
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Re: multigigabit desktop router

Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:41 pm

Residential 10Gbps is ridiculous.
Not when you are downloading 50GB games.
 
vortex
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Re: multigigabit desktop router

Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:35 pm

I see there are now cheap USB 3.0 2.5GbE adapters.

This is mass market.

The 4011 does not have USB!
 
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BartoszP
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Re: multigigabit desktop router

Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:46 pm

....
Not when you are downloading 50GB games.
A. Are you sure that source is able to deliver data with 10Gbs?
B. ISPs always oversell bandwith so I'm not shure if they are able to deliver constant multi 10GB traffic to users. Edge routers will limit their throughput.
C. 5 sec vs 50 sec for 50GB download .... OMG ... what a difference ... 50 min vs 5 min. is a difference but less 1min is not a shame.
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vortex
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Re: multigigabit desktop router

Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:54 pm

....
Not when you are downloading 50GB games.
A. Are you sure that source is able to deliver data with 10Gbs?
B. ISPs always oversell bandwith so I'm not shure if they are able to deliver constant multi 10GB traffic to users. Edge routers will limit their throughput.
C. 5 sec vs 50 sec for 50GB download .... OMG ... what a difference ... 50 min vs 5 min. is a difference but less 1min is not a shame.
I know that Steam can fill a 500Mbps connection.

People don't care about backing up terabytes of games when they have a big pipe.
 
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Re: multigigabit desktop router

Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:09 am

ISPs have been offering 1Gbps for a long time. SingTel started residential 10Gbps in 2016.
That is certainly a valid use case Image

Last edited by rooted on Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
vortex
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Re: multigigabit desktop router

Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:25 am

How would you use a desktop router with 10 Gb networking? I mean what is the use case?
ISPs have been offering 1Gbps for a long time. SingTel started residential 10Gbps in 2016.

Even coax is being re-wired for 2Gbps. So one would not want to buy a 1Gbps router now. That is what I meant by multigigabit.

2.5, 5, 10GbE computers are inexpensive. 50GbE is not bad, and one could even afford 100GbE.

You can even add it to laptops using Thunderbolt.
I know 1 Gbps is available as that's what I have, but I didn't know any ISP offered 10 Gbps residential. You would have to have an NVMe equipped PC just to handle the download speeds, it would be something to see a 50 gigabyte download complete in less than 10 seconds.

That is certainly a valid use case Image
Salt offers it in some places in Switzerland too for $50 a month since 2018 so now Swisscom will make a bigger push in FTTH and join the bandwagon. They also have to fight DOCSIS 3.1 .

Many people back up to the cloud.

NVMe is very common now, but not as a data drive. A case for tiering.
 
mada3k
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Re: multigigabit desktop router

Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:06 pm

A. Are you sure that source is able to deliver data with 10Gbs?
B. ISPs always oversell bandwith so I'm not shure if they are able to deliver constant multi 10GB traffic to users. Edge routers will limit their throughput.
C. 5 sec vs 50 sec for 50GB download .... OMG ... what a difference ... 50 min vs 5 min. is a difference but less 1min is not a shame.
You are correct. Most content providers of any kind won't let any single user steal all available resources.

It would be better if ISPs tried to deliver stable future proof services and catch up with IPv6.
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vortex
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Re: multigigabit desktop router

Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:06 pm

It will take a long time for ISPs to have a lot of 10Gbps coverage. Enough for most SATA sales to stop.

Meanwhile games have already reached 175GB.

And 8K has not become mainstream yet.

It is mass 2Gbps deployment which is round the corner.
 
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Re: multigigabit desktop router

Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:36 pm

I think the new consoles need 10GbE and SATA Express, as well as BDXL.

It would also be better if one could could put a 3.5" SSHD, as the PS4 is now limited to 2TB (15mm does not fit). OK, you can go bigger with an SSD, but it is expensive.

Optional tiered storage using an M.2 2280 NVMe would be highly desirable. Those on a budget would gravitate towards a SATA M.2 and a SATA hard drive or just an SSHD.
Last edited by vortex on Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Re: multigigabit desktop router

Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:13 am

It makes sense for the next generation console to have 2.5 GbE but they won't.
 
vortex
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Re: multigigabit desktop router

Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:51 pm

It makes sense for the next generation console to have 2.5 GbE but they won't.
A console generation lasts typically for 7 years. Even 10GbE makes sense.

They are a fast internet marketing opportunity for ISPs by putting replicas at the edge.

SFP+ could be a good compromise, but maybe the module would be dangerous for small children (or it could be installed inside the case?).
 
vortex
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Re: multigigabit desktop router

Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:11 pm

They could also just install antennas so both Ethernet and WiFi would be optional and upgradeable with a small part.

Another profit opportunity, but third party should be possible.
 
vortex
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Re: multigigabit desktop router

Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:43 pm

Probably textures bigger than what the screen or SVR needs should not be downloaded.
Last edited by vortex on Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: multigigabit desktop router

Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:40 am

A console generation lasts typically for 7 years. Even 10GbE makes sense.

They are a fast internet marketing opportunity for ISPs by putting replicas at the edge.

SFP+ could be a good compromise, but maybe the module would be dangerous for small children (or it could be installed inside the case?).
The adoption rate of faster than gigabit networking in their major markets is slow, even in 7 years the US, Canada, and Japan are unlikely to have widespread 10 GbE in use. I believe in that time we will see widespread adoption of 5 GbE and 2 Gbps WAN in these locations.

All speculation of course, I have a feeling these consoles will have standard 1 GbE and likely 802.11ax wireless.

This being a networking community people often forget, WAN speeds over 100 Mbps actually aren't common. Most people are perfectly happy in the 30 - 50 Mbps range.
Last edited by rooted on Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
vortex
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Re: multigigabit desktop router

Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:50 am

It makes sense for the next generation console to have 2.5 GbE but they won't.
A console generation lasts typically for 7 years. Even 10GbE makes sense.

They are a fast internet marketing opportunity for ISPs by putting replicas at the edge.

SFP+ could be a good compromise, but maybe the module would be dangerous for small children (or it could be installed inside the case?).
The adoption rate of faster than gigabit networking in their major markets is slow, even in 7 years the US, Canada, and Japan are unlikely to have widespread 10 GbE in use. I believe in that time we will see widespread adoption of 5 GbE and 2 Gbps WAN in these locations.

All speculation of course, I have a feeling these consoles will have standard 1 GbE and likely 802.11ax wireless.

This being a networking community people often forget, WAN speeds over 100 Mbps actually aren't common. Most people are perfectly happy in the 30 - 50 Mbps range.
Gigabit ethernet is obsolete and wireless does not replace it.

If some big countries are slow that should not hold back the rest of the world.

By 2023, 650 million homes will be covered by FTTH in APAC alone.
 
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Re: multigigabit desktop router

Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:31 am

...
Last edited by rooted on Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
vortex
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Re: multigigabit desktop router

Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:35 am

Residential 10GbE is now being offered in 7 countries (including Sony in Japan since 2015).

Japan is always ahead in broadcasting and they have more than 35 million FTTH subscribers out of 53. The US will not stop them.
 
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Re: multigigabit desktop router

Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:49 am

Residential 10GbE is now being offered in 7 countries (including Sony in Japan since 2015).

Japan is always ahead in broadcasting and they have more than 35 million FTTH subscribers out of 53. The US will not stop them.
Where have I said the US would affect home Internet?

You simply aren't being realistic about average Internet speeds.

https://www.speedtest.net/global-index

As I said previously, the average (most common) individual in most countries has 100 megabit WAN speeds or less.

The results by speedtest are even skewed, most people don't care and don't run speed tests. The results are from more tech oriented types wanting every drop of bandwidth they pay for.

 
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BartoszP
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Re: multigigabit desktop router

Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:13 am

@rooted:

Never ending story .... why do you quote the WHOLE previous post? What for? Deas it emphasise your answer more?
Do you know what "post reply" button is for?
Real admins use real keyboards.
 
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Re: multigigabit desktop router

Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:53 am

There I fixed it, Vortex did the same but nevermind that.
 
mada3k
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Re: multigigabit desktop router

Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:12 am

Gigabit ethernet is obsolete.
No, it isn't.

xDSL is obsolete. 3G/HSDPA is obsolete. CATV/Coax and DOCSiS is obsolete.
Manages some CCR's, RB750Gr3, RB922 and wAP's
 
vortex
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Re: multigigabit desktop router

Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:41 pm

Gigabit ethernet is obsolete.
No, it isn't.

xDSL is obsolete. 3G/HSDPA is obsolete. CATV/Coax and DOCSiS is obsolete.
It has long been obsolete for network storage.

Most home users don't add a switch or adapters.

If you release a new console with it, it will become instantly obsolete.

Even a 10GbE NAS is backward when Thunderbolt is 40G.
 
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BartoszP
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Re: multigigabit desktop router

Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:56 pm

@vortex:

Never ending story .... why do you quote the WHOLE previous post? What for? Deas it emphasise your answer more?
Do you know what "post reply" button is for?
Seems that most of us could follow the discussion flow without such quotes. We are able to read provious posts.
Real admins use real keyboards.

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