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slutsky
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What algorithm of alignment the 60 Ghz devices is right?

Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:18 pm

Hello colleagues,

Could you provide me the rightest pattern(algoritm) for alignment 60 Ghz devices such as LHG\nRay?
I should lock the tx-sector(beamforming) to 31 for alignment?

Thank you!
 
Zacharias
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Re: What algorithm of alignment the 60 Ghz devices is right?

Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:26 pm

Since beamforming is used the antenna will connect using the optimal Tx/Rx sectors possible...
But why 31 ?
You mean you want to align it in the center of the Array ? In that case, the center cells are 28-29-36-37 ( 8 x 8 Array if i remember right ) ...
But i don't really think that makes any difference if the Tx/Rx sectors are not center ones...
 
slutsky
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Re: What algorithm of alignment the 60 Ghz devices is right?

Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:42 pm

Since beamforming is used the antenna will connect using the optimal Tx/Rx sectors possible...
But why 31 ?
You mean you want to align it in the center of the Array ? In that case, the center cells are 28-29-36-37 ( 8 x 8 Array if i remember right ) ...
But i don't really think that makes any difference if the Tx/Rx sectors are not center ones...
Yep, I mean the 31 sector is center.
When we alignment over TX-Sector-Info(and don't lock tx-sector) and move the device regarding hints (e.g. 0.5 degree up, 1 degree left) - we get following results:
1) We move a few minutes to left regarding the hint
2) TX-Sector was changed to another sector
3) TX-Sector-Info displays new informations for move to right for 1.5 degree
4) What???
5) We going to 1st item...and we have a cycle.

How to resolve this problem?
 
Zacharias
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Re: What algorithm of alignment the 60 Ghz devices is right?

Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:04 pm

What i would be more worried about is the Signal Level, the RSSI value and the MCS...

Is there any reference that a specific sector is better than the other one?
Also Sector 31 is not center...
 
velk1001
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Re: What algorithm of alignment the 60 Ghz devices is right?

Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:32 pm

On an nRAY the center is 31
On a wireless wire LHG60 its 27,28,35,36

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=133374&start=300
Right at them both of the thread.
 
marekm
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Re: What algorithm of alignment the 60 Ghz devices is right?

Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:49 pm

Does beamforming work in RX direction too? RX sector seems to be always reported as 96 in winbox.
 
velk1001
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Re: What algorithm of alignment the 60 Ghz devices is right?

Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:49 pm

I know it never moves, i haven't seen a command to change it yet.
 
slutsky
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Re: What algorithm of alignment the 60 Ghz devices is right?

Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:53 pm

What i would be more worried about is the Signal Level, the RSSI value and the MCS...

Is there any reference that a specific sector is better than the other one?
Also Sector 31 is not center...
Okey. You didn't use the hints when you alignment, right?
You use the RSSI and MCS only?
 
Zacharias
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Re: What algorithm of alignment the 60 Ghz devices is right?

Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:13 pm

You use the RSSI and MCS only?
Personally yes, MCS, RSSI and Signal...
 
slutsky
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Re: What algorithm of alignment the 60 Ghz devices is right?

Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:56 am

You use the RSSI and MCS only?
Personally yes, MCS, RSSI and Signal...
Ok, Thanks.
 
millenium7
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Re: What algorithm of alignment the 60 Ghz devices is right?

Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:30 am

MikroTik really needs to clarify further with the 60ghz products. They are actually REALLY good but it took us a long time to finally figure out how to actually use them properly

First and foremost, the alignment according to direction is COMPLETELY wrong, its totally useless with 1 exception***
You can literally turn it 30 degrees to the left and it'll say '1.5 degrees right please', its rubbish. And when you do get it close to center it is still wrong
Half the problem is it 'just works' so you can get away with a lazy alignment.... until you realize it only 'just works' most of the time but then randomly drops

First and foremost you MUST lock it to center/36 (or whatever number it is, again MikroTik needs to provide clarification on this for all radio's, what is cube60 for instance?) and start aligning from there - assuming you get a link, otherwise align by eye first
Then you must put both ends in 'align' mode via terminal and run a UDP bandwidth test in both directions to saturate the link

Completely disregard RSSI and focus on packet error rate, its fine to see it spiking up to 10% periodically but should primarily be on 0%, if its spiking to say 30% or staying permanently above 0% then you aren't aligned or have obstructions (good luck with the latter). Start tweaking each side very slowly and also start tightening down the bolts bit by bit - its at this point you realize you really want the SolidMOUNT as the stock mount is not appropriate for anything past about 250m where you need precision
You can start looking at RSSI to fine tune when you aren't seeing a difference in error rate. But your main focus should be error rate, then signal and MCS. And you have to look at these with a saturated link, if you just let it sit idle you may have 0% packet errors but once you saturate it you may have 30% or more

*** Now once you have it aligned, this is where you can set tx-sector back to 'auto' and you can potentially use the 'to center' degree alignment however I found it only works reliably at long distances
Our longest link is 1.35km and we managed to get it to say 'center' on both sides and it never moves off that. It also stays up in heavy rain - but does drop down to 300mbps transfer rate and is just barely hanging on. If its very, very heavy rain it will drop but it can still come back up as soon as the rain lets off a little bit. It's actually amazingly good how reliable it is for a cheap device. But if you don't do the exact steps above you can forget about trying to align it, we've had them drop out at 150m in very light rain (sometimes just overcast) until we finally discovered to do that exact sequence

The other good thing is interference is practically non existent. I have a site with 2 LHG radio's on the same mast, practically touching each others dishes, on the same frequency, and all radio's can still push the full speed
 
velk1001
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Re: What algorithm of alignment the 60 Ghz devices is right?

Mon Oct 11, 2021 5:37 pm

With the new beta software the TX sector locks after a period of time, this can mean you move the antenna and nothing happens to the Degree's your off.
You have to wait until it rescans the TX sectors, then it all works fine.
 
Zacharias
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Re: What algorithm of alignment the 60 Ghz devices is right?

Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:37 pm

With the new beta software the TX sector locks after a period of time, this can mean you move the antenna and nothing happens to the Degree's your off.
You have to wait until it rescans the TX sectors, then it all works fine.
What version ?
Also, how can you tell it locks the tx-sector ?
 
velk1001
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Re: What algorithm of alignment the 60 Ghz devices is right?

Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:14 pm

RouterOS v6.49beta54 does lock the TX sector when the link stabilise.
You can see it once the link settled and the TX sector stops changing, if you move the link the signal doesn't change like it normally does.( give it a try)
 
slutsky
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Re: What algorithm of alignment the 60 Ghz devices is right?

Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:18 pm

MikroTik really needs to clarify further with the 60ghz products. They are actually REALLY good but it took us a long time to finally figure out how to actually use them properly
...
Thanks a lot! We will take this guide and will implement in our work!

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