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gerhard
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Is CCR2004-1G-12S+2XS a good fit for this use-case?

Fri Oct 29, 2021 7:20 pm

I am looking to replace my ageing RB2011UAS with a new MikroTik router.

This is important to me:
- fast and stable PPPoE client connection (an ISP pre-requisite)
- bonding support (there are 2 x 1Gbps ISP connections)
- fast single TCP stream (RB2011UAS TCP maxes out at 750Mbps)
- multiple 10Gbit ports (whole network is 10Gbit, and I expect to add more 10Gbit capable hosts next year)
- fastest single-core performance

I am currently leaning towards CCR2004-1G-12S+2XS with S+RJ10 modules (network is Cat6A):
- https://mikrotik.com/product/ccr2004_1g_12s_2xs
- https://mikrotik.com/product/s_rj10

Does anyone run this router? Is it a good fit for my use-case?

This is my current network topology, and the new MikroTik router would sit in front of the UDMPro:
Image

The UDMPro has proven to be an unreliable PPPoE client, and while it has other advantages, I know that I can depend on MikroTik for ISP connectivity: viewtopic.php?p=888209#p888187

Thanks!
 
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Re: Is CCR2004-1G-12S+2XS a good fit for this use-case?

Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:32 am

viewtopic.php?t=164578

I'd advise you to read through this thread. There are a few. Also, there are limitations to how many s+rj10 you can put in close proximity. I don't have the link off hand, but I'd suggest you search for it.
 
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Re: Is CCR2004-1G-12S+2XS a good fit for this use-case?

Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:27 am

I am faced with the same decision. For me (maybe for you too) the CCR2004-16G-2S+ would fit better as the network still uses Cat6A.
But until the severe problems with the CCR2004-1G-12S+2XS are solved, I won't buy the CCR2004-16G-2S+ with the same CPU. Especially since it only runs with a special ROS V7.0, and V7.1 is not ready yet.

So, my approach is just keeping the existing device with some limitations (using a CRS328-24P-4S+ as a router).
 
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mkx
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Re: Is CCR2004-1G-12S+2XS a good fit for this use-case?

Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:37 am

... using a CRS328-24P-4S+ as a router.

After ROSv7.1 gets stabilized, you might want to keep using yor CRS328 as router with its L3 HW offloading vastly improving routing speed in certain conditions.
 
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mkx
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Re: Is CCR2004-1G-12S+2XS a good fit for this use-case?

Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:38 am

Also, there are limitations to how many s+rj10 you can put in close proximity. I don't have the link off hand, but I'd suggest you search for it.
https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/S%2BRJ10 ... l_guidance
 
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Re: Is CCR2004-1G-12S+2XS a good fit for this use-case?

Mon Nov 01, 2021 6:02 pm

After ROSv7.1 gets stabilized, you might want to keep using yor CRS328 as router with its L3 HW offloading vastly improving routing speed in certain conditions.
@mkx, thanks for the tip, L3 HW Offloading looks very promising.
However
1. it looks like some tinkering because of the numerous constraints, whereas CCR2004 or RB5009 achieve the same goal with sheer power. Interestingly, these two do not support L3 HW Offloading, only the CRS3xx models can (currently),
2. fasttrack and NAT with HW Offloading are not supported by the switch chip (98DX3236) of CRS326 and CRS328.

But I will try it. However, to do that I need to choose another small spare router (Hex?) so my network won't stand still.
 
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Re: Is CCR2004-1G-12S+2XS a good fit for this use-case?  [SOLVED]

Thu Nov 11, 2021 6:37 am

The successor to what you have, the RB3011, can route 1Gbps just fine (at 50-60% CPU), and would probably max out trying to do 1.5-2Gbps, depending on how you hand the traffic off downstream.

If I were you, I'd do the RB4011. Two of the 1G ports would face your ISP, then the 10G port could go into your UDM Pro. Unless you're planning to do dozens of IPSEC VPN tunnels or other processor-intensive stuff, you'll be surprised how underutilized the lower-cost quad-core routers would be. The 4011 can also run RouterOS 6, so you can buy yourself some time on something stable (6.47.10 or 6.48.4) until 7.1 (or later) comes out.

I own an ISP with ~300 subscribers. The border router on my 1Gbps fiber link is an RB4011. With minimal firewall rules and limited connection tracking, this router hits 25-30% running 900Mbps inbound during peak hours. A second RB4011 handles CGNAT (89K connections/900Mbps) and runs at 52% during peak. A 4 year-old CCR1009 sits in the middle at 2%, routing only (no filters), and a pair of RB4011's (8%) and one RB3011 (30%/500Mbps during peak hours) handle the routing facing the customers.

I do have a CCR2004-1G-12S+2XS as the border router for my 10Gbps connection in a data center, but it's basically twiddling its thumbs because the data center isn't tied back to the network yet. A CCR2004-16G-2S+ and two RB5009's just arrived today for testing.
 
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Re: Is CCR2004-1G-12S+2XS a good fit for this use-case?

Thu Nov 11, 2021 4:11 pm

Hello @sirbryan, it would be very courteous if you could share your experiences with your two new devices (CCR2004 and RB5009) here in the forum.
I could imagine that their comparison to your other devices would be very interesting for many readers.
 
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Re: Is CCR2004-1G-12S+2XS a good fit for this use-case?

Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:00 am

Hello @sirbryan, it would be very courteous if you could share your experiences with your two new devices (CCR2004 and RB5009) here in the forum.
I could imagine that their comparison to your other devices would be very interesting for many readers.
So far they're pretty minimally configured mainly due to 7.1's fragility in Webfig and only slightly better configurability via Winbox. I haven't done anything with the RB5009's yet.

I have a CHR with a Wireguard link to the CCR2004, being used to tunnel traffic between two different networks. I have a VRF for the "internal" network, where the internal interface on each device and the wireguard interfaces have been added to the VRF. OSPFv2 is running across the wireguard tunnel, essentially joining the networks. As of 7.1rc6, OSPFv3 doesn't work over wireguard (supposedly coming in a future RC).

I'm only pushing 50-200Mbps across the link, so the CPUs of both machines are relatively untouched.

I'm not using IPSEC or BGP (yet), nor any PPP of any kind (PPPoE, L2TP). I do have a Cake queue on the CHR's wireguard interface (towards the CCR2004) and it seems to be working OK. It was configured but disabled on the CCR2004; nothing has crashed yet.
 
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gerhard
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Re: Is CCR2004-1G-12S+2XS a good fit for this use-case?

Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:55 pm

Thank you all for the great answers.

I ended up going for the RB5009UG+S+IN. While PPPoE has been rock solid ever since, and I am now able to max out the 1Gbps WAN @ 45% CPU utilisation, the SFP+ has been a let-down.

There is not much more to tell about the PPPoE WAN connection: it just works.

This is how the four ARMv8 1.fGHz CPUs are handling this speedtest: https://www.speedtest.net/my-result/d/446928339
  cpu-used-per-cpu: 1%,3%,41%,42%
       free-memory: 832000KiB
-- [Q quit|D dump|C-z pause]
  cpu-used-per-cpu: 8%,3%,69%,33%
       free-memory: 832000KiB
-- [Q quit|D dump|C-z pause]
  cpu-used-per-cpu: 49%,37%,49%,41%
       free-memory: 832000KiB
-- [Q quit|D dump|C-z pause]
  cpu-used-per-cpu: 48%,45%,57%,37%
       free-memory: 832192KiB
-- [Q quit|D dump|C-z pause]
  cpu-used-per-cpu: 44%,44%,54%,41%
       free-memory: 832384KiB
-- [Q quit|D dump|C-z pause]
  cpu-used-per-cpu: 45%,52%,50%,41%
       free-memory: 833280KiB
-- [Q quit|D dump|C-z pause]

Downloading pushes all four cores to ~50%, and uploading pushes two cores to ~40%. I am assuming that this is related to the download vs upload speedtest.net streams.

As for the SFP+, the S+RJ10 r2 module runs super hot. With minimal traffic (Mbps), it reaches 80C when connected to UDMPro's 10G interface and it approaches the shutdown limit (92C) when connected to the CRS312. In other words, when used with RJ45 connectors and Cat6A cables, the SFP+ mode is impractical. Debugging this specific issue is definitely a different thread.

To wrap this up, this is my current home trunk network setup:
GPON ONT (1Gbps, symmetric)
|
| GPON ONT (100Mbps/20Mbps, asymmetric)
| |
v v
MikroTik RB5009UG - terminates PPPoE WAN connections & runs DHCP
  |
  |-> Airport Extreme (1Gbps) - backup AP
  |
  |-> MikroTik CRS312 (10Gbps) - 10G trunk edge (hw offloaded switching only)
      |
      |-> UDMPro (10Gbps) - runs primary APs & CCTV
      |-> XG6POE (10Gbps with POE) - networks multiple 10Gbps hosts (also CRS312 backup)

While some of the above is not ideal (RB & CRS single points of failure, Airport Extreme AP, etc.) there is a good story to it. This is the first part: 🎧 How I found my lost network packets - check the screenshots & pictures under Notes & Links. There are other devices in this network (~30 clients in total), and the 10Gbps is important for media production (the Mac & Linux hosts push a lot of traffic).

After 6 months+ of running the RB5009, I like it - especially the fanless part. Apart from SFP+, it mostly works as expected (there is at least one other thread in here which I am leaving for another time). If I had to do it all over again, I would get the POE version, specifically RB5009UPr+S+IN (it was not available 6 months ago).

Thank you all for your feedback - especially @sirbryan.
 
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Re: Is CCR2004-1G-12S+2XS a good fit for this use-case?

Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:35 pm

Re. high temperature of SFP+ module: the fact is that RJ45 modules operating at 10Gbps all run very hot and only devices with active cooling and appropriate heat sinks on SFP+ cages can deal with it gracefully. In your case I strongly suggest you to use FO connection between RB5009 and CRS312 ... those modules run quite much colder and (perhaps doesn't apply to your use case) support longer distances (specially if using single mode fiber and modules). Not to mention that the whole connection (two SFP+ modules, patch cord) is cheaper when using FO than when using UTP.
 
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Re: Is CCR2004-1G-12S+2XS a good fit for this use-case?

Tue Jul 12, 2022 6:02 pm

If stuck with SFP+ RJ45, you can add these which may help a little bit and also there are fans you can add USB powered directed at the connection.
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07Q8R ... UTF8&psc=1


Fans can be as simple as this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfat9RDt6YE

or wild''
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2nLIxRlW_E
 
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gerhard
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Re: Is CCR2004-1G-12S+2XS a good fit for this use-case?

Wed Jul 13, 2022 12:42 am

In your case I strongly suggest you to use FO connection between RB5009 and CRS312 ... those modules run quite much colder.
I like that idea! I am assuming that the XS+DA0001 will do the trick.

If stuck with SFP+ RJ45, you can add these which may help a little bit and also there are fans you can add USB powered directed at the connection.
I like the fanless setup too much to add fans, but thanks for the crazy idea - that last video is wild! I'm going fanless even for my main Linux compute.
 
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mkx
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Re: Is CCR2004-1G-12S+2XS a good fit for this use-case?

Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:09 am

In your case I strongly suggest you to use FO connection between RB5009 and CRS312 ... those modules run quite much colder.
I like that idea! I am assuming that the XS+DA0001 will do the trick.
That DAC should do the trick if the lengths available fit your use case.
 
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Re: Is CCR2004-1G-12S+2XS a good fit for this use-case?

Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:18 am

RJ45 SFP modules do run warmer than their fiber counterparts, but those that use the Marvell chip like the S+RJ10 run particularly hot.

If the SFP only needs to run at 10G instead of multi-G, you can try the Broadcom-based SFP modules which run much cooler and can be used for distances up to 80m, compared to 30m for the Marvell variants. Check out some of the reviews in Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/SFP-10G-T-80-Com ... B08P32B1Y7
 
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mkx
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Re: Is CCR2004-1G-12S+2XS a good fit for this use-case?

Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:28 am

If the SFP only needs to run at 10G instead of multi-G, you can try the Broadcom-based SFP modules ...

My argument about price still stands. The RJ45 SFP+ module, linked, is being sold for $69 a piece. DAC XS+DA0001 goes for MSRP of $29 (for complete connection). And still consumes much less power and thus produces much less heat.
If you want to go with longer distances, one can select a pair of S+85DLC03D (MSRP $59 a piece, up to 300m fibre length). 3rd party modules, compatible with Mikrotik gear, can be found even cheaper.

IMO, copper cables are obsolete with speeds of 10Gbps or higher. Specially so as those speeds require bulky cat6+ or cat7 cables which are RPITA to install. One thing to keep in mind when installing FO, though, is that multi mode fiber currently seems to cap at 40Gbps per pair of fiber strands ... single mode fiber supports much more than this and also allows for much longer distances.
 
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gerhard
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Re: Is CCR2004-1G-12S+2XS a good fit for this use-case?

Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:28 pm

My argument about price still stands. The RJ45 SFP+ module, linked, is being sold for $69 a piece. DAC XS+DA0001 goes for MSRP of $29 (for complete connection). And still consumes much less power and thus produces much less heat.

That's what I ended up doing and everything now works as expected - thank you!

The DAC also addressed my flapping ethernet links issue.

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