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wavespan
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Mikrotik / Capsman WiFi Rant

Sat Feb 26, 2022 2:36 am

I'm trying to make the switch from Ubiquiti Unifi to Mikrotik Capsman at a large facility150+ AP's. I'm not liking the direction Ubiquiti is going and changes there making to the interface. Mikrotik has always been my backend for router, firewall, hotspot, vpn, and starting to change out HP switches for Mikrotik. Unifi for Access points only. Decided to test a few locations with 4 RBD22UGS-5HPacD2HnD and a few areas with 3 RBwAPG-5HacD2HnD using Capsman to manage. No complaints from users on the RBD22UGS-5HPacD2HnD but the facility is a large fair and WiFi is a signup service so users come and go. Areas were we tried the RBwAPG-5HacD2HnD nothing but problems.

So fast forward a couple months after the fair is over I decide to remove two Ubiquiti UAP-AC-M from my house and test a Mikrotik RBwAPG-5HacD2HnD and a RBcAPGi-5acD2nD using Capsman on my local router.
Everything seems fine but my Google Home minis will stop working everyday and need a reboot. Unless I missed the solution after hours of searching and days of testing I found out a friends I phone would not connect and turned out to be the Group Key Timeout was not set. So I set it to an hour now Google Home minis work and his iPhone. Everything seems great then out of the blue a few days later connectivity is horrible!!! I rebooted everything still horrible. Signal Strength is great but pings timeout are off the charts. In Capsman I'm at a loss so decided to disable the L2MTU of 1600 for each interface and it re-provisions, the same L2MTU automagically came back but now everything works great again yet the MTU never changed. This happens every few days and I have to disable L2MTU and connectivity is back again I try a simple re provision but doesn't fix it so maybe a Bug ? Going on a month now with Mikrotik had to put the Ubiquiti back because of random issues everyday or so with one cell phone losing WiFi but others work fine. Device is connected to WiFi but no connectivity yet another device works fine. TV's sometimes say there disconnected from WiFi yet a scan shows every WiFi network but any of mine ! A power cycle of the tv gets connected back.

I have read post after post about Mikrotik WiFi issues and for some reason still cant accept that this is not going to work. I run cheap Ubiquiti UAP-AC-M in super congested and constantly changing RF environments and have zero issue's. I really really have zero Issues!! I plug them in adopt them and call it a day they work!

I'm no expert in any field and actually learned allot I did not know about the nitty gritty of WiFi from all the Mikrotik WiFi research I did. I think Mikrotik needs to include a base WiFi template / config with common compatible settings that work for stand alone AP's and using Capsman. Take the guess work out of setting up a basic AP !
Capsman is amazing with ability to change and customize almost every setting . Could use some UI visual improvements for signal strength and interference coloring to spot issues quickly.

I would like to know am I wasting my time hoping this is just software issues or is there radio hardware just lacking and not there ?

Current ROS 7.1.3
but started testing Capsman back on 6.49
/caps-man channel
add band=5ghz-onlyac control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=Ce name=5Ghz skip-dfs-channels=no tx-power=28
add band=2ghz-onlyn control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=disabled name=2Ghz tx-power=8
/caps-man configuration
add country="united states3" datapath.client-to-client-forwarding=yes .local-forwarding=yes .vlan-id=20 .vlan-mode=use-tag mode=ap name=1E36FS-IOT security.authentication-types=wpa2-psk .encryption=aes-ccm ssid=1E36FS-IOT
add country="united states3" datapath.local-forwarding=yes .vlan-id=30 .vlan-mode=use-tag name=1E36FS-GUEST security.authentication-types=wpa2-psk .disable-pmkid=no .encryption=aes-ccm ssid=1E36FS-GUEST
/caps-man security
add authentication-types=wpa2-psk disable-pmkid=yes encryption=aes-ccm group-key-update=2h name=1E36FS-MNE
/caps-man configuration
add channel=5Ghz country="united states3" datapath.client-to-client-forwarding=yes .local-forwarding=yes installation=any keepalive-frames=enabled load-balancing-group="" mode=ap multicast-helper=default name=1E36FS-MNE_5ghz security=1E36FS-MNE ssid=\
    1E36FS-MNE
add channel=2Ghz country="united states3" datapath.client-to-client-forwarding=yes .local-forwarding=yes installation=any keepalive-frames=enabled mode=ap multicast-helper=default name=1E36FS-MNE_2ghz security=1E36FS-MNE ssid=1E36FS-MNE
/caps-man interface
add channel=2Ghz configuration=1E36FS-MNE_5ghz disabled=no l2mtu=1600 mac-address=48:8F:5A:D8:39:9F master-interface=none name=AP1_2.4Ghz-MNE radio-mac=48:8F:5A:D8:39:9F radio-name=488F5AD8399F
add channel=5Ghz configuration=1E36FS-MNE_5ghz disabled=no l2mtu=1600 mac-address=48:8F:5A:D8:39:A0 master-interface=none name=AP1_5Ghz-MNE radio-mac=48:8F:5A:D8:39:A0 radio-name=488F5AD839A0
add channel=2Ghz configuration=1E36FS-MNE_5ghz disabled=no l2mtu=1600 mac-address=2C:C8:1B:71:AD:FC master-interface=none name=AP2_2.4Ghz-MNE radio-mac=2C:C8:1B:71:AD:FC radio-name=2CC81B71ADFC
add channel=5Ghz configuration=1E36FS-MNE_5ghz disabled=no l2mtu=1600 mac-address=2C:C8:1B:71:AD:FD master-interface=none name=AP2_5Ghz-MNE radio-mac=2C:C8:1B:71:AD:FD radio-name=2CC81B71ADFD
add configuration=1E36FS-GUEST disabled=no l2mtu=1600 mac-address=4A:8F:5A:D8:39:A1 master-interface=AP1_2.4Ghz-MNE name=AP1_2.4Ghz-GUEST radio-mac=00:00:00:00:00:00 radio-name=""
add configuration=1E36FS-IOT disabled=no l2mtu=1600 mac-address=4A:8F:5A:D8:39:9F master-interface=AP1_2.4Ghz-MNE name=AP1_2.4Ghz-IOT radio-mac=00:00:00:00:00:00 radio-name=""
add configuration=1E36FS-GUEST disabled=no l2mtu=1600 mac-address=4A:8F:5A:D8:39:A2 master-interface=AP1_5Ghz-MNE name=AP1_5Ghz-GUEST radio-mac=00:00:00:00:00:00 radio-name=""
add configuration=1E36FS-IOT disabled=no l2mtu=1600 mac-address=4A:8F:5A:D8:39:A0 master-interface=AP1_5Ghz-MNE name=AP1_5Ghz-IOT radio-mac=00:00:00:00:00:00 radio-name=""
add configuration=1E36FS-GUEST disabled=no l2mtu=1600 mac-address=2E:C8:1B:71:AD:FE master-interface=AP2_2.4Ghz-MNE name=AP2_2.4Ghz-GUEST radio-mac=00:00:00:00:00:00 radio-name=""
add configuration=1E36FS-IOT disabled=no l2mtu=1600 mac-address=2E:C8:1B:71:AD:FC master-interface=AP2_2.4Ghz-MNE name=AP2_2.4Ghz-IOT radio-mac=00:00:00:00:00:00 radio-name=2EC81B71ADFC
add configuration=1E36FS-GUEST disabled=no l2mtu=1600 mac-address=2E:C8:1B:71:AD:FF master-interface=AP2_5Ghz-MNE name=AP2_5Ghz-GUEST radio-mac=00:00:00:00:00:00 radio-name=""
add configuration=1E36FS-IOT disabled=no l2mtu=1600 mac-address=2E:C8:1B:71:AD:FD master-interface=AP2_5Ghz-MNE name=AP2_5Ghz-IOT radio-mac=00:00:00:00:00:00 radio-name=2EC81B71ADFD
/caps-man access-list
add action=accept allow-signal-out-of-range=15s disabled=no interface=any signal-range=-88..120 ssid-regexp=""
add action=reject allow-signal-out-of-range=15s disabled=no interface=any signal-range=-120..-89 ssid-regexp=""
 
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bpwl
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Re: Mikrotik / Capsman WiFi Rant

Sat Feb 26, 2022 10:51 am

add action=reject allow-signal-out-of-range=15s disabled=no interface=any signal-range=-120..-89 ssid-regexp=""
My reading of this line .... maintain the 'reject' rule even if the signal is back in range of the 'allow' rule for a full 15seconds.
In other words: if signal drops for 15 sec (the allow rule out-of-range timeout) and you enter the reject rule then you are not accepted until after 15 seconds stronger signal.
 
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jvanhambelgium
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Re: Mikrotik / Capsman WiFi Rant

Sat Feb 26, 2022 11:01 am

Don't really understand your motivation here, especially if this is your sole motivation for swapping out 150+ AP's ?!

>I'm trying to make the switch from Ubiquiti Unifi to Mikrotik Capsman at a large facility150+ AP's. I'm not liking the direction Ubiquiti is going and changes there making to the interface.

Who cares about that. Does it work properly and does it technically meet the customer demands ?! I have 2 AP's at home for many years now (AC-Pro's) and they do not let me down.
I also have Mikrotik for routing & firewalling purposes.
 
wavespan
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Re: Mikrotik / Capsman WiFi Rant

Sun Feb 27, 2022 2:38 pm

My motivation is I run a Linux VM with Unifi and every time I upgrade Ubiquiti keeps changing the look of UI for the worst. Adding screens that only work if you have there router. One simple feature that we relied on at this facility is gone now. It will only be a matter of time when they stop supporting software installs of Unifi and force us to get Appliances.

After all the searching I did over all the Issues I had and all the posts I read from other Mikrotik users frustrated just wanting it to work. I feel like Mikrotik is hurting themselves making it so difficult for users to guess the rite settings just to get stable wifi with there devices.

I tried changing the time on the reject to always did not notice anything different cell phone still roamed between the two aps with out problem just as before but the other phone still just stops passing traffic randomly even though I see it connected in capsman. Also noticed the all the Google Homes lagged when you give them a command and sometimes would just say "something went wrong try again in a few moments" I rebooted both AP's everything works for again.
 
holvoetn
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Re: Mikrotik / Capsman WiFi Rant

Sun Feb 27, 2022 2:58 pm

Read and digest this for Capsman tips

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... AoPoYtfPnW
 
wavespan
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Re: Mikrotik / Capsman WiFi Rant

Sun Feb 27, 2022 5:38 pm

I had found that presentation and tried out the settings which was worse. Another thing was most google homes and nest thermostats refused to even see the networks after changing some settings.
The author had a picture of a poorly installed Unifi with a caption of
"Was staying at a hotel last night and could not believe how fast the wifi network was... Went down for breakfast and while waiting for the elevator , I understood why. Got to love Ubiquiti networks! "

I've setup a few point to point Mikrotik links in the past and was a breeze and worked flawless!
Why does it seem like there wifi side of things sucks so bad and no one wants admit it ?
I'm not not hating on Mikrotik I want to switch over but why are there so many problems?
 
holvoetn
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Re: Mikrotik / Capsman WiFi Rant

Sun Feb 27, 2022 6:17 pm

That's a question you need to ask in Latvia.

I personally have not had big problems with MT Wifi. It can be better, sure. But I don't need it to be better for my use cases.
E.g. In France I'm lucky to get 25Mb on an LTE link. Who cares Wifi is not passing 100Mb there ? Heck, I LIMIT the users there to 4Mb incoming max or they'll eat up my monthly allowance in a day !
At home I have 200/20 link. Last week did some tweaking and was able to get over 400Mb using 5Ghz on hAP AC2, even once at 511Mb. For what ? To see a bigger number on speedtest ? It was already at 190. So no added value to me.
Up til now I use TPLink Deco P7 devices at home for Wifi AP. Plug in and go, barely nothing you can do on config side.
But they are really not that well configured. I can surpass the internal speeds using Tik devices. But what's the added value ?

Just like guys buying cars able to go close to 300km/h whereas on highways here, you can only go to 120km/h.
What's the point then ?

Tik devices are widely used. Most complaints I see around here is regarding speed. And usually bad config is the cause.
These are not 'set-and-forget' devices, let's face it.

Also most people seem to forget Wifi is about connectivity, having wireless access. Period.

My view. Everyone is entitled to see things differently.
 
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mozerd
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Re: Mikrotik / Capsman WiFi Rant

Sun Feb 27, 2022 7:23 pm

My view. Everyone is entitled to see things differently.
@holvoetn … excellent POV ….. :)
 
wavespan
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Re: Mikrotik / Capsman WiFi Rant

Sun Feb 27, 2022 9:01 pm

I'm not having Speed issues. When i'm not rebooting the caps or my device speeds are great. I'm with you on not needing to go 300km/h... I'm just looking for stable and compatible.
Mikrotik devices have always been rock solid for me. And maybe that's why I'm in disbelief over this.

I like the fact that every aspect of wifi settings can be configured/changed if needed but am I wrong thinking Mikrotik should at least have a ready to go template in Capsman and standalone radios
that is pre configured with failsafe most compatible settings to get users up and running without hassle?

I would love to hear from Mikrotik but wont hold my breathe since I'm still waiting to see the ability to assign IP address based on Agent Circuit ID field.
 
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Re: Mikrotik / Capsman WiFi Rant

Sun Feb 27, 2022 10:46 pm

Yes reasonable point wrt speeds, however stability is another thing or put in another way the number of unexpected loss of wifi without explanation is TOO HIGH.
I am looking forward to MT WIFI6 and 6E products and will follow the new AY stuff for any outdoor ptp needs. ( not proprietary chipset drivers etc......)
 
holvoetn
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Re: Mikrotik / Capsman WiFi Rant

Tue Mar 01, 2022 12:56 pm

Yes reasonable point wrt speeds, however stability is another thing or put in another way the number of unexpected loss of wifi without explanation is TOO HIGH.
I am looking forward to MT WIFI6 and 6E products and will follow the new AY stuff for any outdoor ptp needs. ( not proprietary chipset drivers etc......)
Especially for you !
I'm already working all day long with my laptop connected to hAP AC 5Ghz network, main application being used via Windows Virtual Desktop connection to Azure.
SUPER sensitive for disconnects !!

I haven't seen a single drop yet after 5 hours of working. Nada !

In my book that classifies as stable.
 
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anav
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Re: Mikrotik / Capsman WiFi Rant

Tue Mar 01, 2022 2:15 pm

Yup, agreed your experience seems very good, however it differs from many folks reporting issues.
Even help from bpwl often doesnt solve others problems. I suspect that if the conditions are right the MT works fine, however if there is any interference be it wifi or electrical or type of wall material etc, then that no longer holds true. It appears other types (those who cannot be named) do not suffer as much from such things........ Besides I am naturally skeptical, and you seem naturally trusting.
Just to put a point on it, I am only talking the older proprietary wifi devices, anything newer using common chipsets/drivers (audience? hapac3?) should not suffer the same issues.
 
holvoetn
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Re: Mikrotik / Capsman WiFi Rant

Tue Mar 01, 2022 2:24 pm

True.
But as bpwl also always says: the major cause for most connection problems is shared air space. You need to find either a free range, either make sure you got the LEAST interference from whatever you can not control (since the things you CAN control, you should optimize as much as possible). I am the first one to agree it is not always feasible. I am also willing to admit some other vendors can have a "better" set-and-forget setup which does not mean it is optimal. But it will work for most users.

Just like I dislike Apple for being a closed environment. But it will work most of the time for most users.
I'm more an Android guy. I like tinkering too much :lol: Sometimes it breaks stuff, yeah. But that's also part of the fun.

Besides I am naturally skeptical, and you seem naturally trusting.
That part you're mistaking.
I usually try to find possible ways if something can be interpreted the wrong way.
I have to because that's large part of my job, finding potential problems in processes.
 
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bpwl
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Re: Mikrotik / Capsman WiFi Rant

Tue Mar 01, 2022 4:11 pm

Mikrotik can be stable. Certainly in PtP and PtMP. But also with client devices, even a sleeping MacBook that only checks wifi every 20 seconds.
CUBE17A building had a power failure. The connection in 5 GHz is only failover. Values for CCQ and interface rate only rise when used.
Powerfailure is the trigger for disconnects, since Engenius and Draytek have been replaced with Mikrotik.
CAPsMAN is not used, as I don't like SPOF's in the network. DUDE collects enough information.
.
Klembord-3.jpg
.
But what is it then with Mikrotik instability ?
- only some ROS versions are very stable in wifi. Some recent versions have wifi problems! (Read the forum comments!)
- there are many parameters to fiddle with in MT. Removing the lower interface rates or MCS rates is introducing disconnects. Rising basic rates too high is the same. Setting access-lists with minimum client signal strength also.
- MT has a performance problem ... certainly in a busy environment.
-- Why that smaller AMSDU (MPDU) ? it lowers the throughput ! Not enough memory for buffers?
-- CAPsMAN central processing, SEEMS* to be set to avoid multiple transmissions in one request. (Data Block fits into one MSDU of 2304 bytes) [*just guessing]
-- There is only one "interface rate" strategy to select from, and it seems to be a slow one to ramp up.
-- WMM is not acting as it should by default: Priority is not set, A-MPDU is not set
-- MT does not get a fair share of airtime compared to others without WMM priority and with smaller transmissions (A-MPDU). It transmits less than others with every opportunity it gets.
-- MT cannot handle own slow transmitters. No airtime-fairness
-- MT does not send QBSS in the Beacon : "The Extended BSS Load element enables an AP to describe the amount of time spent transmitting on each channel bandwidth so that a receiver can see how much time is spent on 20, 40, 80, and 160 MHz operations." https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/80 ... /ch03.html
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bpwl
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Re: Mikrotik / Capsman WiFi Rant

Tue Mar 01, 2022 4:21 pm

changing the time on the reject to always
I read this as: Once rejected = rejected forever (until reboot)
(Signal may be out-of-this-reject range, the rule still applies)
 
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anav
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Re: Mikrotik / Capsman WiFi Rant

Tue Mar 01, 2022 4:26 pm

Right, so you can see the frustration with folks hunting for the "right version of RoS even though it may be getting ancient ( and possibly not as secure as more recent variants ).
Further, many times there is NO FREE air in many locations.
As bpwl pointed out, there are many odd things happening with the proprietary code MT has for these older wifi products.

My advice remains the same for anybody wanting to buy wifi 5 product.............., which is first consider wifi6.
 
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Re: Mikrotik / Capsman WiFi Rant

Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:37 pm

Mikrotik wireless gets clobbered by Ruckus Radios I installed in 2014.

That's all you need to know.

After hundreds of hours, emails with Mikrotik and public battles with BPWL demanding he call a spade a spade...

Everyone agreed... MIKROTIK wireless can not keep up in the environments I work in.

All my time making caps-man do everything I wanted it to is WASTED! The radio driver is the problem. Until connectivity is fixed... It's just a waste of time. One I can't afford anymore.

The wave 2 drivers improved connectivity to CLOSER to 2016 standards... But no caps-man. So once again... I had to shelve it again.

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