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sirnef
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Chassis opening vs warranty

Fri May 06, 2022 5:07 pm

Hi, I am struggling with the temperatures of the CRS326. I would put a fan inside. Does opening the chassis cancel the warranty?
 
holvoetn
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Re: Chassis opening vs warranty  [SOLVED]

Fri May 06, 2022 5:14 pm

Asking the question is responding it.

Obviously, yes.
 
kraal
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Re: Chassis opening vs warranty

Fri May 06, 2022 8:22 pm

I think it depends on where you live / bought your device. You should check your local regulations.
There was in teresting article on ifixit about "warranty void if removed" stickers: https://www.ifixit.com/News/11748/warra ... re-illegal
Or this one about how Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft changed their warranty policies: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/ ... tc-warning

That being said, to install a fan on the CRS326, no need to open the device. You could glue the fan to the outside (make sure to make it "extract" the air) and plug the fan into an external power adapter. It should do the job perfectly.

P.S. I personnaly installed a fan along with a 24V PSU inside the chassis to power the unit and the fan (wanted to get rid of wires). To do it I had to drill the case to fix the PSU (2 tiny 1.5mm holes), install a C14 inlet on the back (there is already a hole to do it, just had to remove a small metal part by bending it), then do some internal wiring from the PSU to the external power plug using a matching connector. Note that there was no soldering to the PCB involved to power the fan, it is powered directly from the PSU using a small Traco DC/DC switching converter (1cm x 1cm x 6mm) which is fixed to the chassis using thermal sticker. Result: with the added internal PSU and the fan, the temperature dropped from 70°C idle (the device is in a closed rack) to 48°C idle and it is almost inaudible. Could the modifications have done any harm to the device: definitively not.
 
hecatae
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Re: Chassis opening vs warranty

Sat May 07, 2022 10:42 pm

If you purchased a LHG R, SXT R, LTAP Mini R, etc, and if opening it would void your warranty, I'd be quite annoyed.
 
holvoetn
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Re: Chassis opening vs warranty

Sat May 07, 2022 11:29 pm

Only to be opened with the sole purpose of inserting a sim.
There is a special lid for that purpose.

Open the case further, and your warranty is void.
Logic.
 
kraal
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Re: Chassis opening vs warranty

Mon May 09, 2022 2:51 pm

Hello,

@holvoetn : you write...

Obviously, yes.

As well as...

Logic.

What are you concretly referring to (i.e. document, law, jurisprudence) ?
So far I only found the FTC decision linked above which allows users in the USA to open their devices (and forbids warranty conditionning to specific parts or services)
As for Mikrotik devices, I checked the box of a hEX (the only box I have not thrown away). There is one document inside it and states the following in the "safety information" part:

Do not attempt to dissassemble, repair or modify the device.

I could not find any link to an impact on warranty. The warning is related to safety only (which is 100% understandable.)

Then I contacted my electronic device reseller to ask the question about the impact on warranty of "opening a device, installing a fan (without touching the PCB) to the chassis in a place designed for it then closing the device". Apparently the impact is not obvious as they were unable to answer directly. They will get the information internaly then will recontact me to give me the answer.

I also contacted the local consumers protection association to ask them multiple questions (among which one related to this topic, but also about the impact on warranty of doing physical modifications to the chassis without touching the PCB: what happens if the device stops working for unrelated causes) I'll share their lawyers' answer as soon as I get one.

I understand the need to protect devices' producers from abuses and their will to limit the warranty if modifications that may break a device are done (they are not responsible for other's mistakes). But changing a capacitor is not the same as drilling a hole in the case, opening it with a screwdriver, adding a fan or drawing flowers on the chassis or placing stickers on it. Not every action deserves voiding the warranty. This limit can only be defined by law.

Maybe you have more information than I do which make things "obvious" and "logic" to you. If so could you please share it with us ?
Last edited by kraal on Mon May 09, 2022 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Chassis opening vs warranty

Mon May 09, 2022 3:04 pm

If I were the producer of something, I should have the right to defend myself from the do-it-yourself of the clueless, or the clever ones.
How do I know if someone has opened the device just to see how it is made,
or has tried to put a fan inside, something has fallen on the board that has broken some component,
and user remount it without say anything, pretending nothing has happened and demanding to be repaired under warranty?

How do I know if in opening the box to make the holes with the drill, the vibrations, not foreseen in the factory,
have broken something because the user is stupid enough to leave everything mounted while making the holes?

Law or not, for me if a product is opened, the warranty (of the manufacturer) must immediately expire,
and that of the repairer (which can be anyone) takes over, but it is the repairer who then takes care of any subsequent problem.
If it is the user and not a repairer who does the work, it is the user's business.

Do you just want to add new CPU, some memory or a new SSD?
It's the same, certain maneuvers can damage the increasingly delicate cpu socket (just 1000 contacts on 3x3cm...), memory slots or M.2 slots.
You have to take the unit to someone who does it for work, is insured against damage, and can guarantee you a refund if it breaks anything.
If you do it yourself, you take full responsibility. But you have the right to open it, what follows is your full responsibility.
 
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Re: Chassis opening vs warranty

Mon May 09, 2022 3:10 pm

@kraal,
No offense to you but this is what ticks me off big time.
Guys only looking for legal reasons why something should or should not be done.

Any modification you perform on a device which alters the design (and yes, EVEN when it means improving that design !), is subject to warranty discussions.
Proceed on your own risk, I say then. And if things turn sour, don't start about warranty, please.

If you are the one going to seek legal advice for each and every of these cases, be my guest.

You call drilling a hole in the closure normal user operation ? What if it's a metal chassis and some slivers start wandering around and short circuit something ? What if the fan being added to the PSU results in wrong behavior of that device ?
Opening an SXT device potentially harming it's ability to be weatherproof after closing again is also normal ? Then WHY was the lid designed for inserting that SIM ?

This is not accepted in my book. Never has been, never will be.

Same kind of discussion about law suits for washing machine vendors where a special clause had to be mentioned in the manual this machine is not indented to put a living pet inside when operating the machine.
Let's get serious, please !!

PS Just as reference:
I opened my Synology NAS a while ago and swapped the 1Gb module for a 8Gb module.
Did it alter the device ? Surely did.
Did it void my warranty ? Certainly so.
Did I know what I was doing ? I would think so after working with computers since 1980.
Would I have returned the device if it broke because of this ? Not in a lifetime ... my doings, my consequences.
Last edited by holvoetn on Mon May 09, 2022 3:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Re: Chassis opening vs warranty

Mon May 09, 2022 3:16 pm

@sirnef
The most obvious thing is to ask whoever sold it to you.
It is not MikroTik who provides the guarantee directly (unless you bought it directly from MikroTik) and whoever makes the guarantee policy is your supplier.
If you haven't noticed, this is precisely why there is no warranty sheet inside the product.
 
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Re: Chassis opening vs warranty

Mon May 09, 2022 3:21 pm

this machine is not indented to put a living pet inside when operating the machine.
Nooooooo... 😱 too late....
 
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Re: Chassis opening vs warranty

Mon May 09, 2022 3:25 pm

This whole topic seems odd to me - just opening the case does not void the warranty, at least in the US. What you do once the case is open, makes more of a difference. If you have a model that takes nvme/ssd/ram and you add or replace a user controlled component, then I would say the warranty is still in effect as long as it is installed properly. Doing any other type of out of the ordinary modifications, drilling, adding internal power supply, etc. would not allow for the warranty to remain.

Short answer : It depends- what you do and where you live
 
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Re: Chassis opening vs warranty

Mon May 09, 2022 4:20 pm

@kraal,
No offense to you but this is what ticks me off big time.

None taken, but same here :-)

Guys only looking for legal reasons why something should or should not be done.

Why "only" why "should" ? The OP wanted to know if opening the chassis would void the warranty.
You seem to have a clear answer, I don't, so I'm asking for your sources.

Any modification you perform on a device which alters the design (and yes, EVEN when it means improving that design !), is subject to warranty discussions.

Exactly, let's discuss ! The OP wanted to know where the limit stands. For you it's obvious and logic, not for me.

Proceed on your own risk, I say then. And if things turn sour, don't start about warranty, please.

You're rewriting the story the other way around. He wants to know if opening the chassis will have an impact on the warranty in order to avoid having issues later. I find his process respectable and deserving answers as precise as possible don't you think?

That being said I agree on the "do it at your own risks" part. Removing a screw may (maybe) not void the warranty, scratching the PCB with a screwdriver will definitively void it.

If you are the one going to seek legal advice for each and every of these cases, be my guest.

I'm defenitively not seeking legal advice for every case. But I won't tell someone that something is obvious or logic just based on my own beliefs.
The OP asked a question and expects a precise answer not a guts feeling. That's why I recommended that he checks with his local regulations.
If I don't have a clear and precise answer I try to give hints where the answer might be found, or I keep it shut.

You call drilling a hole in the closure normal user operation ?

Where did you read this ? I never wrote such a thing.

What if it's a metal chassis and some slivers start wandering around and short circuit something ?

You cannot be serious. Are you ?
I hope you would have guessed that you remove the pcb from the case first, then clean everything properly before putting it back...
Side note: yes you should unplug the device from AC first, wear antistatic gloves / be properly grounded and avoid having wet hands (maybe you're also wondering about this).

Now even without drilling a hole, if you remove a screw then put it back. Are you considered, from a warranty perspective, a thug or not ?

What if the fan being added to the PSU results in wrong behavior of that device ?

Uh ? Ok 1) My guess is that you don't know what you are talking about or think I'm not knowing what I'm doing. Fine and fair enough I can't fight against it. 2) You missed the part where I told the OP to glue the fan and power it from an external source to avoid having to open the chassis and void the warranty.

Opening an SXT device potentially harming it's ability to be weatherproof after closing again is also normal ? Then WHY was the lid designed for inserting that SIM ?

To minimize risks that people who don't know what they are doing break things.
Potentially != definitively. And again the initial question was "does open ing my CRS326 void the warranty".

This is not accepted in my book. Never has been, never will be.

Fine.

Same kind of discussion about law suits for washing machine vendors where a special clause had to be mentioned in the manual this machine is not indented to put a living pet inside.
Let's get serious, please !!

Yes let's get serious... and get back to the initial question.
 
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Re: Chassis opening vs warranty

Mon May 09, 2022 4:28 pm

This whole topic seems odd to me - just opening the case does not void the warranty, at least in the US. What you do once the case is open, makes more of a difference.

That's exactly what I wrote.

Doing any other type of out of the ordinary modifications, drilling, adding internal power supply, etc. would not allow for the warranty to remain.

Well I would not be that certain. You buy your car, install a spoiler. Does it break the warranty if your car's engine fails 6 months later ?
You may have drilled holes and used glue to install the spoiler, you may have even changed the paint of your car, but as long as there is no causality with the defect you may be allowed to do some modifications (it of course may depend on where you live, what has been done and by whom as well)

Short answer : It depends- what you do and where you live

Agree, that's what I first wrote (bis).
 
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Re: Chassis opening vs warranty

Mon May 09, 2022 5:07 pm

Installing a spoiler on my country invalidates the insurance, because any external modification is made, not foreseen by the factory,
makes it mandatory to re-homologate the vehicle, and this is law, not an opinion...
And whoever installs it must have the qualification to do so, because they must certify the work.
Think if it comes off while you go on street and kills someone...

However, it is silly to compare a spoiler to an engine modification.
It had more "if I install a different air filter" comparison logic to the engine, for example.

What I wrote directly above remains valid, that is how things are, not an my or your opinion.
viewtopic.php?p=932046#p932016
 
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Re: Chassis opening vs warranty

Tue May 10, 2022 1:15 pm

Only to be opened with the sole purpose of inserting a sim.
There is a special lid for that purpose.

Open the case further, and your warranty is void.
Logic.
So how would you insert the modem then?
 
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Re: Chassis opening vs warranty

Tue May 10, 2022 1:45 pm

Thats a valid point you make there.
I would assume for those devices there are clear instructions how to remove/place/replace that part ?
 
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Re: Chassis opening vs warranty

Tue May 10, 2022 8:10 pm

Simply follw the provided instructions.
https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/display/ ... eslotusage
and on instructions:
should be done by a qualified person
 
holvoetn
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Re: Chassis opening vs warranty

Tue May 10, 2022 8:15 pm

Point 1 of those instructions is already where most DIY enthusiasts will cross the line...
I used to work in an electronic assembly plant and quite well know how fast that can go wrong.
 
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Re: Chassis opening vs warranty

Tue May 10, 2022 8:20 pm

The point is:
do yurself = if broken, no warranty
pay someone = if broken, someone refund....
do nothing = still on warranty...

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