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1JeRo7
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Creating repeater from OmniTik 5

Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:36 pm

Hey guys!

I have a specific question that I haven't found on the forum. I'm trying to create a repeater from OmniTik5, which will repeat signal from MikroTik 52ac.
I have a setup:
- Metal 52ac which is transmitting data
- OmniTik5 which is supposed to be repeater
- Metal 52ac receiving data (plugged in a computer)

I am not trying to get internet connection but data through eth and receive it directly to metal 52ac plugged in computer. Is this even possible or am I lacking hardware?

And also I am wondering, would it be possible to create a mesh from a few OmniTik5 s?

Thank you for your reply!
 
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mkx
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Re: Creating repeater from OmniTik 5

Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:31 pm

You can do it. Set up OmniTik in AP-bridge mode, then set up both Metal 52acs in station-bridge mode (make sure Metals are set into 5GHz mode; after you make sure both connect to your Omni, disable station-roaming to reduce any delays in case intermittent link disturbances). Make sure OmniTik has default-forwarding=yes set so that it'll forward frames between both Metals. Beware that throughput via this multihop bridge will suffer because every single packet will have to pass air interface of relay node (OmniTik) twice.
 
1JeRo7
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Re: Creating repeater from OmniTik 5

Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:24 pm

Hello!

This setup works, thank you! But I am noticing, that I can't directly connect both ac52s (probably because they are both in station-bridge mode?).
Now I have additional question. Is it possible to create more than one Omnitik(s) as a repeater in this kind of setup?
Down here I also have pictures, which will explain better what I am trying to do. I am trying to connect ac52s at start then when it moves forward I am trying to connect them via OmniTik, then when they go even further apart to connect them via 2 OmniTiks and lastly through 3 OmniTiks (without getting disconnected).

Case 1
1.png
Case 2
2.png
Case 3
3.png
Case 4
4.png
Thank you for your response.
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mkx
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Re: Creating repeater from OmniTik 5

Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:44 pm

It is theoretically possible to do it using single radio on nodes ... but I'd strongly suggest you to use one set of radios for backhaul and another one for clients. And beware, client roaming in wireless is painfully slow unless you have a well optimized Wifi network with working 802.11 r/k/v (Mikrotik currently doesn't offer that functionality).
 
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chechito
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Re: Creating repeater from OmniTik 5

Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:01 pm

keep in mind if you use this schema of repeater using single radio equipment you have cumulative 50% performance drop on each repeater

1st repeater 50% loss of total initial throughput
2nd repeater 75% loss of total initial throughput
3rd repeater 87.5% loss of total initial throughput
4th repeater 93.7% loss of total initial throughput

to this add that the collisions and re-transmissions will get you very low data-rates

the very recipe for a very low and performance and instability
 
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Re: Creating repeater from OmniTik 5

Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:33 pm

Finally someone wrote it...
 
1JeRo7
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Re: Creating repeater from OmniTik 5

Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:47 pm

Thanks guys for all the replys.

But of course I am having further questions because we still didn't manage to get enough range. As far as I know about my configuration, the first Metal connects through repeater (OmniTik) to second Metal but when the OmniTik is out of range it doesn't connect directly to Metal (from Metal-OmniTik-Metal connection to Metal-Metal connection).

I have a few pictures to show what else I have in mind but I would ask you if that would be possible (one Metal is moving rover):

Case1
ShareX_Bc7fsLQmJN.png
Case2
ShareX_B12wbHfHaz.png
Case3
ShareX_BG7N1QkKIY.png
Case4 (If it is necessary to connect through OmniTik)
ShareX_HzTf2zacFl.png
I know that I have a lot of questions, but I really don't know a lot about wireless networks so I will be very thankful for further answers! :)

Regards
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bpwl
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Re: Creating repeater from OmniTik 5

Tue Jul 12, 2022 1:15 pm

keep in mind if you use this schema of repeater using single radio equipment you have cumulative 50% performance drop on each repeater

1st repeater 50% loss of total initial throughput
2nd repeater 75% loss of total initial throughput
3rd repeater 87.5% loss of total initial throughput
4th repeater 93.7% loss of total initial throughput

to this add that the collisions and re-transmissions will get you very low data-rates

the very recipe for a very low and performance and instability

Not my math in this repeater/WDS type of setup.

I know the common knowledge is that a repeater halves the speed.

Well actually a WDS link on the same radio does the same. The data-packet has to travel twice in the same wifi-ether-domain channel. Transmissions will wait for each other, with some media-access-contention time loss in that channel.

When using different channels then the math is different.

With the second repeater, or second WDS hop, the same packet has to travel a third time, and share the air-time with the first 2 transmissions.

Throughput is around 33% (ignoring some media access contention loss).

With the 3th repeater, the packet is transmitted 4 times. So throughput is around 25%.

With the 4th repeater or WDS hop, and 5th transmission, the throughput is around 20% of the original.

Always hoping all transmitters can hear each other, so that there is no "hidden node" problem, and loss through interference causing retransmissions.
Any slow wifi connection (in this chain or just in this wifi-ether-domain-channel will consume most of the air-time, and reduce the throughput for everyone. !!

Media Contention is stochastic. Each node gets the same chances for transmission. A 1 Mbps transmission will use almost 60 times* more airtime than a 144Mbps transmission (which is sending very shortly and waiting very long, when both are competing for air-time. *(There are air-time calculators on internet for a packet transmission. High Mbps interface rates has large overhead. So it's more 60 times, not 144)
 
1JeRo7
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Re: Creating repeater from OmniTik 5

Wed Jul 20, 2022 8:50 am

Thank you for all the information.
Are the cases from my previous reply even possible to achieve with my set of HW?

I actually don't stream the internet connection, just a few kb/s of data directly from standing station in the middle.
So probably 20 or 10% of performance should be enough for my application.

Best regards
 
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bpwl
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Re: Creating repeater from OmniTik 5

Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:32 pm

Difficult to tell, we can guess what to expect, but it probably is always trial and error, or PDCA , plan-do-check and adapt.

Omnitik 5 is a great device, for many things, but it is omnidirectional, so you lose quite some wifi energy in sending in (and receiving from) all directions.
Still it has some antenna gain, but is omnidirectional in the horizontal plane.

Wifi Requirements for backhaul and client connects are quite different!

So this long range backhaul is better done with directional devices, while client is done with local omnidirectionals.
And how far is "long range"? Do you want to cover every spot there? Are there any trees (always a wifi killer)?

It seems this not an easy setup! Just tried to find this location with Google Lens. Is it this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bendix_Woods

I would try this with SXTsq5ac devices (low budget) along the road, avoiding trees, for PtP, multiple hops, with Omnitik as distribution points and SXTsq ethernet interconnect.
(I use Powerbox Pro for the ethernet interconnect and wAP ac for wifi distribution. Clients get 180Mbps throughput. Roaming time is less than 1 second. This is one L2 subnet. Your Omnitik does both functions ethernet+wifi)
SXTsq5ac-pairs work on different 5 GHz channels per pair, 40 MHz wide, 400Mbps interface rate, 260 Mbps throughput.
Mind the trees!!! Absorption happens in the wide fresnel zones.
Of course the Omnitik work with their own 5 GHz channels (40 MHz max), away from the SXTsq channels.

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