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MikroTik App
 
skocdopolej
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MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:24 pm

I just set up hAP ax3 and noticed significantly worse WiFi performance compared to hAP ac3.

I did some tests using iperf3 and hAP ax3 had 30% worse performance. Indicated signal strength (on Android phone) was on average 20% worse on ax3. Test details are in attached file.

Does anyone have the same experience?

ac3 (ROS 7.7):
/interface wireless
set [ find default-name=wlan1 ] band=2ghz-onlyn channel-width=20/40mhz-XX \
    country="czech republic" disable-running-check=yes disabled=no distance=\
    indoors frequency=auto installation=indoor mode=ap-bridge ssid=2G \
    wireless-protocol=802.11 wps-mode=disabled
set [ find default-name=wlan2 ] band=5ghz-onlyac channel-width=\
    20/40/80mhz-XXXX country="czech republic" disable-running-check=yes \
    disabled=no distance=indoors frequency=auto installation=indoor mode=\
    ap-bridge skip-dfs-channels=all ssid=5G wireless-protocol=802.11 \
    wps-mode=disabled

ax3:
interface/wifiwave2/export 
# jan/18/2023 17:22:52 by RouterOS 7.7
# software id = HGT8-C7QW
#
# model = C53UiG+5HPaxD2HPaxD
/interface wifiwave2 security
add authentication-types=wpa2-psk,wpa3-psk encryption=ccmp,gcmp,ccmp-256,gcmp-256 name=default wps=disable
/interface wifiwave2 configuration
add country=Czech mode=ap name=default security=default ssid=W
/interface wifiwave2
set [ find default-name=wifi1 ] channel.band=5ghz-ac .skip-dfs-channels=all .width=20/40/80mhz comment="WiFi 5 GHz" configuration=default configuration.mode=ap disabled=no
set [ find default-name=wifi2 ] channel.band=2ghz-n .skip-dfs-channels=all .width=20/40mhz comment="WiFi 2.4 GHz" configuration=default configuration.mode=ap disabled=no
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kowal
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Wed Jan 18, 2023 7:05 pm

I have ac3 and ax3, both on ROS7.7 and wifiwave2( ac3 in diffrent location),

Ax3 performance on 5GHz:
Client : Xiaomi Mi10T Pro : ~600-700Mb/s,
Client : HP Probook 450 G9 with Realtek 8852BE, Ubuntu 22.04 LTS : 800-900Mb/s

But I will swap this Realtek card to Intel AX211 because of driver issues on Linux.

Ac3 performance :

Client : Xiaomi Mi10T Pro : ~350-400Mb/s
Client : HP Probook 450 G9 with Realtek 8852BE, Ubuntu 22.04 LTS : ~500-560 Mb/s
 
skocdopolej
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:35 pm

Hi kowal,

thank you for your response.

Are we talking about link speed or real speed?
 
miononno
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Wed Jan 18, 2023 10:23 pm

Talking about range and not speed..

I'm comparing the new AX3 and an old Asus 86U(wifi5) and the mikrotik has lower range..

when there's only 2.4ghz network (because i'm too far from AP) the Asus still gives me a little signal, while the AX3 has zero signal.

Is there any way i can raise the power? I'm using Italy as country and all the other settings stock.
Thank you
 
Rox169
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:45 am

Hi,

probably the old ASUS do not care about new wifi regulation and use maximum power of radio. I have very good experience with ASUS and with they MESH system I do recomend asus rt-ax56u.

You can change the country for better signal, but do not expect miracles. And be careful router can use specific 5 ghz frequency and some clinets/device can have problem when they are set to czešch country.
 
miononno
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:12 am

What the whole preceding post was quoted for? Is it a problem to just use "Post Reply" button?
I see.
I will try Czešch country and then i will decide what to do.
I love routerboard inside, so maybe i will disable wifi6 and leave wifi to be managed by the old one as a dumb AP only.
Last edited by BartoszP on Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: removed excessive quotting of preceding post; be wise, quote smart, save network traffic
 
holvoetn
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Jan 19, 2023 11:52 am

Be careful when changing country settings to something which may be considered illegal for your country.
Just saying ...
 
holvoetn
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Jan 19, 2023 11:59 am

Ac3 performance :

Client : Xiaomi Mi10T Pro : ~350-400Mb/s
Client : HP Probook 450 G9 with Realtek 8852BE, Ubuntu 22.04 LTS : ~500-560 Mb/s
Adding my AC3-performance using iperf3 on internal server:
Client: Samsung S20 -> 450 - 480Mb/s
Client: Custom Laptop using Realtek PCI GbE Family Controller Win11 -> 970Mb/s
 
skocdopolej
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Jan 19, 2023 12:34 pm

Hi holvoetn,
which app are you using for iperf3 client on Android?
 
holvoetn
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Jan 19, 2023 12:58 pm

HE.NET
Works pretty well. Has quite some other tools embedded as well.
 
skocdopolej
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:41 pm

Great app indeed. ;-) Thank you!
 
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mkx
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:14 pm

Client: Samsung S20 -> 450 - 480Mb/s

Does S20 support more than 1 chain (MIMO)? Did you ever observe it using 2S (in wireless registration table) while performing throughput test? I have a few android devices (phones and tablets) and none actually support 2 chains (2S) ... which logically reduces throughput quite severely.
 
miononno
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:16 pm

I did some other test.. but it's clearly less powerfull, talking about RF emitted

GREEN MARKED 0_MAIN is the SSID of ASUS 86U (wifi5)
BLUE MARKED 1_MAIN and 1_MAIN5 are SSID of HAP AX3

i tried moving around and Asus signal is always better.
I hope i'm doing something wrong..
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holvoetn
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:23 pm

Does S20 support more than 1 chain (MIMO)? Did you ever observe it using 2S (in wireless registration table) while performing throughput test? I have a few android devices (phones and tablets) and none actually support 2 chains (2S) ... which logically reduces throughput quite severely.
Don't know for sure. I will have to test again somewhere this weekend.
But from the spec-pages I get this:
Wi-Fi
802.11 a/b/g/n/ac/ax 2.4G+5GHz, HE80, MIMO, 1024-QAM
On some places I also saw the Wifi6 symbol already 8)
 
erlinden
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:29 pm

You are using 40MHz bandwidth on the 2.4GHz radio of the MikroTik while the Asus is 20MHz. That will make a huge difference, especially looking at the saturation of the 2.4GHz band. Next, if you want to compare you should use the same settings (bands) on both devices (ofcourse not at the same time).
Last edited by erlinden on Thu Jan 19, 2023 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Rox169
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:47 pm

As I wrote you asus probably do not care about new regulation. I fully agree with erlinden if you are comparing 20Mhz with 40Mhz you probably do not know what are you doing :) You must compare router on the axact place, with the axact same Mhz and on exact same band and of course one by one...not both at the same time...

Signal -37 is better/stronger than -47 on the 2,4Ghz and the signal -59 is bit worse than -58 on 5,4Hgz. You yould also try the throughput if you have something like ipref or openspeedtest server on your local network...Worse signal on wifi 5,6Ghz AX will have better throughput than better signal on 5,4Ghz AC
Last edited by Rox169 on Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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mkx
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:56 pm

Wi-Fi
802.11 a/b/g/n/ac/ax 2.4G+5GHz, HE80, MIMO, 1024-QAM
On some places I also saw the Wifi6 symbol already 8)

Yeah .. but ax can work with single chain as well ... and will perform slightly better than ac with same single chain due to better modulation scheme available (1024QAM vs. 256QAM). Device manufacturers tend to pick lowest possible denominator when displaying indicators of "advanced" functionality.
 
miononno
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Jan 19, 2023 4:20 pm



Signal -37 is better/stronger than -47 on the 2,4Ghz and the signal -59 is bit worse than -58 on 5,4Hgz. You yould also try the throughput if you have something like ipref or openspeedtest server on your local network...Worse signal on wifi 5,6Ghz AX will have better throughput than better signal on 5,4Ghz AC
yes i know that -37 is higher.. :o
just look at the graph, not at a specific moment.

I don't care about throughput. When i need throught i use Ethernet, not wifi.
What i need is coverage for all the devices. ( an simple IOT device need just to connect)
I simply cannot unplug the Asus and plug the HAP, because some device will be completely offline.

However, maybe it's because of new EU laws about emissions..
My posts are not intended to just say the HAP is not good. I'm just saying it gives less coverage or maybe i'm doing a mistake, so i appreciate any comment toward the solution.

I will try to put them in same conditions..
Thank you
 
erlinden
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Jan 19, 2023 4:31 pm

I'm just saying it gives less coverage or maybe i'm doing a mistake, so i appreciate any comment toward the solution.
Yes...it's a mistake on your site. Please read my previous post and change config accordingly.
 
miononno
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Jan 19, 2023 4:40 pm

take on your site. Please read my previous post and change config accordingly.

Let's talk about 2.4ghz..

I try to put channel width to 20Mhz.. ok?
Thank you for your help
 
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mkx
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Jan 19, 2023 5:58 pm

20MHz channel is good for coverage.

What country regulations limit is effective radiated power per device. Effective means it takes into account antenna gain so high antenna gain on transmitter will not present as higher signal strength[*]. Per device means that it'll sum over all transmit antennae and using many antennae (e.g. 4x4 MIMO or higher) will present as lower signal strength[**]. It will also mean that it will sum power per whole channel width. With wider channels power is dispersed more and signal strength will again be lower. So for best coverage use 1-chain AP with 20MHz channel width.


[*] higher gain antenna does help to improve reception. Remember that obtainable throughput is related to SINR of receiver. Signal in receiver is sum of transmitter power (power amplifier), transmitter antenna gain, path loss and receiver antenna gain. Sum of first two is more or less EIRP and thus limited by country regulation, path loss is property of physical space between transmitter and receiver and receiver antenna gain is something that can be improved on certain devices. Higher gain antenna, by being directional (more or less), can also help to reduce noise part of SINR, but amount of reduction highly depends on overall situation around receiver.
When using higher gain antenna on AP downlink doesn't change much (if at all): coverage is the same, service is the same (or slightly better; power amplifiers in low cost WiFi APs have "power backoff" meaning that when transmitting higher MCS/VHT, the power capability is lower. If country regulations limit Tx power lower than PA capability, then real power backoff happens at higher VHT or even doesn't happen). However higher gain antenna helps in uplink, upload will be better because AP "hears better". In case of PtP links, using higher fain antennae on both ends help improve both directions.
The power backoff explains why maximum throughput can be same on two APs with different signal strengths, specially if Tx power is set for maximum coverage area.


[**] using 4x4 (and higher order) MIMO offers some features which give better service outside best area of AP coverage (beam forming, space diversity). However, beacons are transmitted without using those tricks because they are intended also towards "about to register" clients (which are thus not yet known to AP) and towards dormant clients (which might have moved relatively to AP's location but without gaving active two-way connection AP can not determine direction towards such client). So improvement is only seen during actual data transfers allowing for higher datarates at the same (marginal) signal strength.
The same applies to broadcast/multicast traffic if multicast helper is not enabled.
 
miononno
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Jan 19, 2023 6:50 pm

Thank you very much for this comprehensive answer.
I'll try as soon as possibile.
 
holvoetn
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Jan 19, 2023 6:57 pm

Does S20 support more than 1 chain (MIMO)? Did you ever observe it using 2S (in wireless registration table) while performing throughput test?
Small problem ... in wave2 wireless registration table nothing is to be found anymore regarding 1S or 2S.
It does indicate 866/650 for tx/rx ?
 
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mkx
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:09 pm

866 can be result of different connection properties ... single chain, 80MHz and 256QAM. Or dual chain and 40MHz and 256QAM. Probably @bpwl could deduct more.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Jan 23, 2023 11:10 pm

I have ac3 and ax3, both on ROS7.7 and wifiwave2( ac3 in diffrent location),

Ax3 performance on 5GHz:
Client : Xiaomi Mi10T Pro : ~600-700Mb/s,
Client : HP Probook 450 G9 with Realtek 8852BE, Ubuntu 22.04 LTS : 800-900Mb/s

But I will swap this Realtek card to Intel AX211 because of driver issues on Linux.

Ac3 performance :

Client : Xiaomi Mi10T Pro : ~350-400Mb/s
Client : HP Probook 450 G9 with Realtek 8852BE, Ubuntu 22.04 LTS : ~500-560 Mb/s
Can you show me your configuration? I have transfers at 379 Mbits/sec (AX210 card)
 
theprojectgroup
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat Jan 28, 2023 11:58 pm

Same here with hAP ax3.
  • Client MacBook Air M2 (AX) iperf3 sending > WiFi1 (5G) + ether1 in one bridge > ether1 > nuc8 350-750 Mbit/s (quiet unstable...)

    Client MacBook Air M2 (AX) iperf3 receiving < WiFi1 (5G) + ether1 in one bridge < ether1 < nuc8 70-120 Mbit/s (quiet unstable...)

    Client MacBook Air M2 (AX) iperf3 receiving < WiFi1 (5G) < ether5 pppoe < fibre nuc8 35 Mbit/s (stable, WAN 100% saturated)
What?
  • If the traffic is routed and natted its fast(er) and stable

    If the traffic is bridged it's unstable and it's really slow if WiFi of ax3 is sending
 
holvoetn
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:37 am

ax3
Same samsung s20.
Reliably around 600mbs
 
EgidijusL
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:46 am

with v7.8 speed sucks... ant wifi stability... Downgrade to v7.6 and speed return.
v7.6 iphone 12 pro max ~800Mbs
v7.7 iphone 12 pro max ~400Mbs
 
holvoetn
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:16 am

Especially for you I downgraded to 7.6, also went over 7.7 again.
I keep seeing the same figures with Samsung S20.
Time to ditch Apple, then ? :lol:

In all seriousness, it could be device specific.
There have been brand-related issues in the past with wifi (was related to security IIRC)
 
wiseelf
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:01 pm

I have the same issue after upgrading to 7.7. TX Rate on 5Ghz went down from 1200Mbps to 800-400. Later the same day any of my devices weren't able to see 5Ghz network at all.
Downgraded to 7.6 and everything works well now.
Opened ticket to support, let's see what they will answer.

Device is hap ax3.
 
kenyloveg
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:54 am

I had poor speed (35MB/s files copy from lan NAS) when 2.5Gbps was bridged with wireless.
Speed did go up to download=85MB/S upload=35MB/s after remove 2.5G port from bridge. I suspect this may be about default TX RX flow control (all off on interface).
My laptop wireless card is AX200, 1 wall between laptop and ax3, distance is about 4 meters.
Last edited by kenyloveg on Sun Feb 19, 2023 1:46 am, edited 3 times in total.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:12 am

866 can be result of different connection properties ... single chain, 80MHz and 256QAM. Or dual chain and 40MHz and 256QAM. Probably @bpwl could deduct more.
Just reverse lookup is my tool. It is silly MT is not giving the input (bandwith or #tone, MCS HT/VHT/HE index, GI, #S), and so one has to match the rate with possible executions.

866.7 is 6 times in this table https://mcsindex.com/ (using ctrl-F text search) , some pre-802.11ax, some 802.11ax (ax has different Guard interval), not all settings are possible with MT (160MHz channel? , 8 antenna )


Mikrotik is adjusting wifiwave2 to the old wlan interface features. Hopefully one day also the registration table is the same (would love this for DUDE "Routeros info" global overview of the registration table, even as it misses MCS index)
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Feb 09, 2023 9:19 am

with v7.8 speed sucks... ant wifi stability... Downgrade to v7.6 and speed return.
v7.6 iphone 12 pro max ~800Mbs
v7.7 iphone 12 pro max ~400Mbs
same problem, downgrading hap ax3 to v7.6 after tasting v7.7 and v7.8b3 wifi stability (range and connectivity) gone wrong

and hap ax3 with external HGO (range) is lower than hap ac2 with internal antenna :( even run normally with v7.6

is it problem with wifiwave2 package? the old wireless package seems more stable :?
 
massinia
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Feb 10, 2023 9:02 pm

I just ordered one hAP ax3 me too, hopefully it will be fixed with 7.8 :)
 
maigonis
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Feb 13, 2023 12:35 pm

Pay attention what country and channel is used. Not all channels are allowed to transmit whit hi power. Lower TX power will reduce range and modulation.
 
theprojectgroup
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Wed Feb 15, 2023 10:42 am

Still the same issue on latest RC.
 
holvoetn
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Wed Feb 15, 2023 11:00 am

You may want to take a look at this thread.
viewtopic.php?t=193578&hilit=macbook

User reported Wifi issues on AX2 (same wifi as AX3) using ROS 7.7 yet the problem turned out to be related to Macbook.
Other test device, problem went away.

So once again my suggestion to ditch Apple :lol:
In all seriousness, to further pinpoint this problem, do you have the option to use another device for your testing ?
 
theprojectgroup
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Wed Feb 15, 2023 11:29 am

Will Try other Windows AX devices but I don't see why this is mac related.

If the traffic is bridged = bad
If the traffic is NATed = good
So this seems a bridging issue, right?

The AX Macbook Air M2 and MacBook Pro M1Max work great with UniFi AX APs btw.
 
holvoetn
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Wed Feb 15, 2023 12:06 pm

Will Try other Windows AX devices but I don't see why this is mac related.
Different OS, different network stack, different way of handling traffic.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Wed Feb 15, 2023 2:48 pm

I suspect unifi developers all use macs and mt developers all use linux LOL
 
holvoetn
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Wed Feb 15, 2023 3:35 pm

MacOS and Linux are not thát different IMHO.
MacOS is BSD based (closed source), Linux is ... well, Linux (open source). Both are Unix derivates, however.
Problem will be mostly in difference between Mac/Linux and Windows, I guess.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Wed Feb 15, 2023 6:13 pm

The issue doesn't exist when doing NAT, only when WLAN < Bridge > ethernert > server.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Wed Feb 15, 2023 6:17 pm

I'm facing the very same issue.... running version is 7.7

I have tested the setup by drop in replacement of the existing cheap AP - place, obstacles, distance and devices operating are exactly the same. Environment is the same.
I'm so much disappointed with AX3 performance... jaw dropped... testing stations never reaches more than 300 Mbit/s real speed to NAS or Internet (AP-> 1G LAN ->virtual pfSense router on i5-12600 server, so fast as it can be-> 1G internet) and it never ever negotiates more link speed than 400 Mbit.... it is also very unstable, drops to very low MCS and low speeds (80-108 Mbps)
Interesting thing that this 300 Mbit seem to be some cap as it mostly equal 300 sharp.

My testing laptop and phone (MacBook Pro 2019, 802.11ac 3/MIMO, iPhone 11 which is 802.11ax 2/MIMO) are about 2.5 meters away from the AP in a straight line. Last machine tested was win11 PC with Intel ax 210 nic. This one stands closest to the AP - 50 cm, antena to antena.

Usually, when stations moved away even slightly from straight line, the connection drops parameters even harder, then stations decide to move to ... further AP which is 6-7 meters away behind brick wall and wooden door, it is Asus AX55 (same radio configuration as AX3)
All of this happens in 5Ghz band. When it comes to 2Ghz band, performance is even worse.... devices close to the AX3 like old printer, old AV receiver, some ESP controllers from IoT can't catch the radio and moving to Asus. Unusable even in the same room!

Config - rather simple, but adding channels, channel width etc. gave no gain, so I decided to left it as default as possible but still analogue to other devices I use:
/interface wifiwave2
set [ find default-name=wifi2 ] channel.band=2ghz-ax .skip-dfs-channels=\
    disabled .width=20/40mhz configuration.country=Poland .mode=ap .ssid=\
    hardc0re_2G disabled=no name=wifi-2G security.authentication-types=\
    wpa2-psk,wpa3-psk .encryption=ccmp,gcmp,ccmp-256,gcmp-256
set [ find default-name=wifi1 ] channel.band=5ghz-ax configuration.country=\
    Poland .mode=ap .ssid=hardc0re_5G disabled=no name=wifi-5g \
    security.authentication-types=wpa2-psk,wpa3-psk .encryption=\
    ccmp,gcmp,ccmp-256,gcmp-256 .group-encryption=ccmp .management-encryption=\
    cmac .management-protection=allowed
Channels are different on both APs, for 2 and 5 Ghz bands. There are no other interferences I can notice.

Funny thing that I have replaced .... cheap-of-cheapest Xiaomi AX3000 Mesh system box, which barely have any configuration. Very basic thing. On this one, I got full possible negotiated 802.11ac speeds (866 or 10xx something, but rarely) on MBP, and 1200 on iPhone 11. Xiaomi AX3000 has no external antenas. 2Ghz band was giving full range for older devices too...

It looks like some flaw somewhere - usually, from my experience, the problem might be with hardware radio path eg. some shorting to ground, internal interference, problems with antenas and connectors... just guessing. But this behavior is very strange.
What I have checked seems ok. Received power and noise floor for 5Ghz on the stations seem quite good but 2Ghz are terribly bad and very unstable (jumps from very low to good values constantly)

Any ideas what can be wrong with this device? I'm very very surprised by its poor wifi performance, would never expect that from Mikrotik box.....
Last edited by stark82 on Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
theprojectgroup
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Feb 16, 2023 3:32 pm

Does this looks like a bridging + TCP + ether1 2.5GbE issue?
UDP works fine.
Still had a chance to access an AX Windows machine but it looks like it's not a platform issue.

Macbook Air M2 < wifi1 < bridge 1 < ether1 (2.5GbE) < Intel NUC8 with Thunderbolt 10 GbE

TCP - iperf3
Up - Good
iperf3 -c 192.168.99.11 -t10  -i1 -P1
Connecting to host 192.168.99.11, port 5201
[  5] local 192.168.99.128 port 63183 connected to 192.168.99.11 port 5201
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bitrate
[  5]   0.00-1.00   sec   104 MBytes   870 Mbits/sec
[  5]   1.00-2.00   sec   104 MBytes   872 Mbits/sec
[  5]   2.00-3.00   sec   102 MBytes   855 Mbits/sec
[  5]   3.00-4.00   sec  94.1 MBytes   791 Mbits/sec
[  5]   4.00-5.00   sec  92.0 MBytes   772 Mbits/sec
[  5]   5.00-6.00   sec  90.6 MBytes   760 Mbits/sec
[  5]   6.00-7.00   sec  90.6 MBytes   760 Mbits/sec
[  5]   7.00-8.00   sec  91.4 MBytes   767 Mbits/sec
[  5]   8.00-9.00   sec  93.0 MBytes   780 Mbits/sec
[  5]   9.00-10.00  sec  91.2 MBytes   766 Mbits/sec
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bitrate
[  5]   0.00-10.00  sec   953 MBytes   799 Mbits/sec                  sender
[  5]   0.00-10.02  sec   950 MBytes   795 Mbits/sec                  receiver

Down - Bad
iperf3 -c 192.168.99.11 -t10  -i1 -P1 -R
Connecting to host 192.168.99.11, port 5201
Reverse mode, remote host 192.168.99.11 is sending
[  5] local 192.168.99.128 port 63209 connected to 192.168.99.11 port 5201
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bitrate
[  5]   0.00-1.00   sec  14.8 MBytes   124 Mbits/sec
[  5]   1.00-2.00   sec  15.5 MBytes   130 Mbits/sec
[  5]   2.00-3.00   sec  13.2 MBytes   111 Mbits/sec
[  5]   3.00-4.00   sec  15.6 MBytes   131 Mbits/sec
[  5]   4.00-5.00   sec  15.4 MBytes   129 Mbits/sec
[  5]   5.00-6.00   sec  13.4 MBytes   113 Mbits/sec
[  5]   6.00-7.00   sec  14.7 MBytes   123 Mbits/sec
[  5]   7.00-8.00   sec  14.6 MBytes   123 Mbits/sec
[  5]   8.00-9.00   sec  13.3 MBytes   112 Mbits/sec
[  5]   9.00-10.00  sec  15.3 MBytes   128 Mbits/sec
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bitrate         Retr
[  5]   0.00-10.00  sec   147 MBytes   123 Mbits/sec  284             sender
[  5]   0.00-10.00  sec   146 MBytes   122 Mbits/sec                  receiver

Down - NAT - Good (ISP: 300Mbit Down)
Macbook Air M2 < wifi1 < NAT< ether5 (1GbE) + PPPOE < FRITZ!Box 7583 G.Fast in house 100 meters < FTTB M-Net ISP
iperf3 -c speedtest.wtnet.de -p 5202 -P 1 -4 -R
Connecting to host speedtest.wtnet.de, port 5202
Reverse mode, remote host speedtest.wtnet.de is sending
[  6] local 192.168.99.128 port 64394 connected to 213.209.106.95 port 5202
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bitrate
[  6]   0.00-1.00   sec  33.6 MBytes   282 Mbits/sec
[  6]   1.00-2.00   sec  40.1 MBytes   336 Mbits/sec
[  6]   2.00-3.00   sec  40.0 MBytes   335 Mbits/sec
[  6]   3.00-4.00   sec  40.4 MBytes   339 Mbits/sec
[  6]   4.00-5.00   sec  40.2 MBytes   338 Mbits/sec
[  6]   5.00-6.00   sec  40.2 MBytes   337 Mbits/sec
[  6]   6.00-7.00   sec  40.3 MBytes   338 Mbits/sec
[  6]   7.00-8.00   sec  40.2 MBytes   337 Mbits/sec
[  6]   8.00-9.00   sec  38.7 MBytes   324 Mbits/sec
[  6]   9.00-10.00  sec  38.1 MBytes   319 Mbits/sec
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bitrate         Retr
[  6]   0.00-10.02  sec   424 MBytes   355 Mbits/sec  173             sender
[  6]   0.00-10.00  sec   392 MBytes   329 Mbits/sec                  receiver

UDP - iperf3
Up - Good
iperf3 -c 192.168.99.11 -t10  -i1 -P1 -u -b 1G
Connecting to host 192.168.99.11, port 5201
[  5] local 192.168.99.128 port 56491 connected to 192.168.99.11 port 5201
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bitrate         Total Datagrams
[  5]   0.00-1.00   sec   114 MBytes   954 Mbits/sec  82345
[  5]   1.00-2.00   sec   121 MBytes  1.01 Gbits/sec  211465
[  5]   2.00-3.00   sec   108 MBytes   903 Mbits/sec  285654
[  5]   3.00-4.00   sec   104 MBytes   869 Mbits/sec  320205
[  5]   4.00-5.00   sec   104 MBytes   869 Mbits/sec  274020
[  5]   5.00-6.00   sec   103 MBytes   866 Mbits/sec  314495
[  5]   6.00-7.00   sec   103 MBytes   868 Mbits/sec  276878
[  5]   7.00-8.00   sec   104 MBytes   871 Mbits/sec  317805
[  5]   8.00-9.00   sec   104 MBytes   872 Mbits/sec  275742
[  5]   9.00-10.00  sec   104 MBytes   869 Mbits/sec  321306
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bitrate         Jitter    Lost/Total Datagrams
[  5]   0.00-10.00  sec  1.04 GBytes   896 Mbits/sec  0.000 ms  0/2679915 (0%)  sender
[  5]   0.00-10.01  sec  1.03 GBytes   886 Mbits/sec  0.005 ms  1879486/2645129 (71%)  receiver
Down - Good
iperf3 -c 192.168.99.11 -t10  -i1 -P1 -u -b 1G -R
Connecting to host 192.168.99.11, port 5201
Reverse mode, remote host 192.168.99.11 is sending
[  5] local 192.168.99.128 port 57426 connected to 192.168.99.11 port 5201
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bitrate         Jitter    Lost/Total Datagrams
[  5]   0.00-1.00   sec   116 MBytes   975 Mbits/sec  0.052 ms  1008/85201 (1.2%)
[  5]   1.00-2.00   sec   116 MBytes   971 Mbits/sec  0.002 ms  2395/86278 (2.8%)
[  5]   2.00-3.00   sec   116 MBytes   975 Mbits/sec  0.006 ms  2097/86250 (2.4%)
[  5]   3.00-4.00   sec   114 MBytes   954 Mbits/sec  0.004 ms  3627/85953 (4.2%)
[  5]   4.00-5.00   sec   117 MBytes   981 Mbits/sec  0.008 ms  2186/86877 (2.5%)
[  5]   5.00-6.00   sec   116 MBytes   975 Mbits/sec  0.006 ms  1985/86180 (2.3%)
[  5]   6.00-7.00   sec   117 MBytes   985 Mbits/sec  0.029 ms  1149/86211 (1.3%)
[  5]   7.00-8.00   sec   114 MBytes   960 Mbits/sec  0.101 ms  3402/86297 (3.9%)
[  5]   8.00-9.00   sec   114 MBytes   954 Mbits/sec  0.004 ms  4082/86380 (4.7%)
[  5]   9.00-10.00  sec   116 MBytes   975 Mbits/sec  0.013 ms  2495/86648 (2.9%)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bitrate         Jitter    Lost/Total Datagrams
[  5]   0.00-10.00  sec  1.16 GBytes  1000 Mbits/sec  0.000 ms  0/863269 (0%)  sender
[  5]   0.00-10.00  sec  1.13 GBytes   971 Mbits/sec  0.013 ms  24426/862275 (2.8%)  receiver

Macbook Air M2 < wifi1 < bridge 1 < ether4 (1GbE) < Intel NUC8 with Thunderbolt 10 GbE

TCP - iperf3 -
iperf3 -c 192.168.99.11 -t10  -i1 -P1  -R
Connecting to host 192.168.99.11, port 5201
Reverse mode, remote host 192.168.99.11 is sending
[  5] local 192.168.99.128 port 64768 connected to 192.168.99.11 port 5201
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bitrate
[  5]   0.00-1.00   sec  89.0 MBytes   747 Mbits/sec
[  5]   1.00-2.00   sec  83.3 MBytes   698 Mbits/sec
[  5]   2.00-3.00   sec  86.4 MBytes   725 Mbits/sec
[  5]   3.00-4.00   sec  86.9 MBytes   729 Mbits/sec
[  5]   4.00-5.00   sec  89.3 MBytes   749 Mbits/sec
[  5]   5.00-6.00   sec  77.3 MBytes   648 Mbits/sec
[  5]   6.00-7.00   sec  75.3 MBytes   632 Mbits/sec
[  5]   7.00-8.00   sec  85.7 MBytes   719 Mbits/sec
[  5]   8.00-9.00   sec  87.8 MBytes   736 Mbits/sec
[  5]   9.00-10.00  sec  78.2 MBytes   656 Mbits/sec
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bitrate         Retr
[  5]   0.00-10.01  sec   842 MBytes   706 Mbits/sec  106             sender
[  5]   0.00-10.00  sec   839 MBytes   704 Mbits/sec                  receiver
Last edited by theprojectgroup on Thu Feb 16, 2023 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
holvoetn
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Feb 16, 2023 4:23 pm

Thanks for testing.

In that case I guess the remaining action will be to create a supout.rif file and create a ticket towards support.
Make also sure to point them to this thread since you already did quite some testing.
 
theprojectgroup
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Feb 16, 2023 4:24 pm

yep, already did both!
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:41 pm

Hi theprojectgroup

Would you share your Wi-Fi settings please?

I’m getting bad Wi-Fi speeds and would like a config to get me up and running.

For comparison my

ISP router (a 6E unit), but only using 6 on my iPhone 12 Pro Max is 814 down/230up
hAP AX3 in same spot is 639 down/228up

From further distance, it's even more prevalent
ISP 6E unit 400 down/200 up
hAP 108 down/78up


Thank you
Last edited by esj on Sat Feb 18, 2023 4:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
Rox169
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Feb 19, 2023 10:47 pm

Hi,

what unit 6E do you have?
 
PeterXC
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Feb 24, 2023 6:32 pm

Does this looks like a bridging + TCP + ether1 2.5GbE issue?
UDP works fine.
What is your range during tests?
 
PeterXC
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Feb 24, 2023 6:36 pm

Hi theprojectgroup

Would you share your Wi-Fi settings please?

I’m getting bad Wi-Fi speeds and would like a config to get me up and running.

For comparison my

ISP router (a 6E unit), but only using 6 on my iPhone 12 Pro Max is 814 down/230up
hAP AX3 in same spot is 639 down/228up

From further distance, it's even more prevalent
ISP 6E unit 400 down/200 up
hAP 108 down/78up


Thank you
I'm afraid you will not fix it. So far, on the current and rc software, ax3 has a worse range than most other modems, including cable. I have the same issue, and I'm really annoyed.
 
theprojectgroup
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Feb 24, 2023 8:43 pm

Does this looks like a bridging + TCP + ether1 2.5GbE issue?
UDP works fine.
What is your range during tests?
60-100 cm
 
PeterXC
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Feb 24, 2023 11:00 pm

I have the same issue after upgrading to 7.7. TX Rate on 5Ghz went down from 1200Mbps to 800-400. Later the same day any of my devices weren't able to see 5Ghz network at all.
Downgraded to 7.6 and everything works well now.
Opened ticket to support, let's see what they will answer.

Device is hap ax3.
Thanks! I've just downgraded mine. Looks a bit better. Will stay with 7.6 until positive messages from the forum
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat Feb 25, 2023 1:26 pm

Hi,

what unit 6E do you have?
Hello. I have the Vodafone Pro II Ultrahub 6E - Vantiva produced unit for Vodafone (used to be called Technicolor)
F-Pro2-ProductFamilySide-2000x1000.jpeg
Can't get anything anywhere near this to match the speeds and range. (Happy for suggestions, anyone :D ...)

https://www.vodafone.co.uk/broadband/pro-ii-devices
https://www.benzinga.com/pressreleases/ ... 6e-gateway

I've tried
1/ Mikrotik hAP ax3 - poor, as described above (even with 7.6 FW re-installed )
2/ ASUS RT-AX86U Pro, which is supposed to be excellent, but I've found is about 70% as good as the Vodafone unit (same location), same conditions.
3/ Next steps will be separate Aruba or Ubiquiti WAPs and use with the Mikrotik hAP ax3 (I love the software and control/granularity of the Mikrotik - RouterOS - only just learned this, but it's great) - I've hard wired Cat6A everywhere in the house, so it has been recommended to me that I buy multiple AP's for each zone and turn them down a bit. To be honest, if I could have the Mikrotik functionality with the WiFi of the Vodafone unit (+ a booster for the yard) I'd be a very happy person.

The bizarre thing is the the Vodafone Pro II Ultrahub reaches everywhere in my house, even 2 levels up I'm getting 600 down/300up and this is 12 meters away through blockwork walls. Best WiFi i've ever had for a single unit!

I'm also contemplating using the Mikrotik hAP ax3 with the Vodafone Ultrahub router as a dumb access point (not sure how this will work though - i'll just give it a fixed IP, turn off DHCP and let the MT do it's stuff). I just wish we were able to get custom firmware for the Ultrahub and flash it and remove the crippling Vodafone software. Can't find anything about how to do this though as the device is locked down. Also there are separate boosters for the Vodafone unit, but the ethernet backhaul isn't supported by Vodafone (again locked down by their custom firmware) so no control of these.
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat Feb 25, 2023 3:36 pm

I have the Vodafone Pro II Ultrahub 6E
MikroTik does not have any WiFi device that can compete with the Vodafone Pro II Ultrahub 6E.
For excellent Router I suggest the RB5009 and for WiFi I suggest the TP-Link EAP660 HD ... this combination will provide excellent Routing and EXCELLENT WiFi equivalent to the Vodafone Pro II Ultrahub 6E
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat Feb 25, 2023 7:36 pm

I have the Vodafone Pro II Ultrahub 6E
MikroTik does not have any WiFi device that can compete with the Vodafone Pro II Ultrahub 6E.
For excellent Router I suggest the RB5009 and for WiFi I suggest the TP-Link EAP660 HD ... this combination will provide excellent Routing and EXCELLENT WiFi equivalent to the Vodafone Pro II Ultrahub 6E
Thanks Mozerd.

I had looked at the RB5009, but discounted it due to availability. I might just hang out for this. FYI I'm running a 1gig up/ 1gig down fibre service. The hAP AX3 was my foray into Mikrotik gear and I have been very impressed with the versatility of it.... just the WiFi that's let it down for me.

Appreciate the pointer towards the EAP660HD, however will probably hold out for the EAP770 if it's due soon. I swapped out 2 x TP LInk EAP225's and a Cisco 240ac when I installed the Vodafone unit and it really blew them away. Now I've had a taste for what's available, I'm going to try to future-proof and a separate router, with replaceable AP's seems to be the way forward, as advised! :D
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat Feb 25, 2023 8:26 pm

you should get approx 800Mbit from AX3, your setting is wrong.... try to do not select any country...it should boost you up...
 
liviu2004
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat Feb 25, 2023 8:28 pm

Is that a joke, not select a country? Why is there a setting to begin with?
Last edited by liviu2004 on Sat Feb 25, 2023 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Rox169
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat Feb 25, 2023 8:31 pm

do not cry if you do not understand....
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat Feb 25, 2023 8:42 pm

I cry. You happy now?
 
PeterXC
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:07 pm

you should get approx 800Mbit from AX3, your setting is wrong.... try to do not select any country...it should boost you up...
Yeah, when you put your device next to the antenna, maybe. In real-life usage, it is more like 300-600 max.

You can play with it and check your negotiated rates and how it changes with the location in the terminal:
interface/wifiwave2/registration-table/print detail stats interval=1 where interface ="wifi1"

An interesting thing, as antennas are in theory omnidirectional. in reality turning it 180 deg without adjusting the position can increase the performance. At least it worked for me. Still, I'm far from expectation :(
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:37 pm

What is your expectation?
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:48 pm

What is your expectation?
stable 500-600Mbps at my desk, around 5m from ap, with a very light wall/door in LOS

I will not expect 2Gbps, available from my cable provider's AP with 160Mhz channel
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat Feb 25, 2023 11:01 pm

What is your expectation?
stable 500-600Mbps at my desk, around 5m from ap, with a very light wall/door in LOS

I will not expect 2Gbps, available from my cable provider's AP with 160Mhz channel
stable 500-600Mbps at my desk, around 5m from ap, with a very light wall/door in LOS

you should be fine then with AX3....just tweak settings....

I do not understand why do you need more than 500Mbps...half of the wired cable....
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat Feb 25, 2023 11:03 pm

I do not understand why do you need more than 500Mbps...half of the wired cable....
Finally someone with a sensible view on things.
 
PeterXC
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat Feb 25, 2023 11:16 pm


I do not understand why do you need more than 500Mbps...half of the wired cable....
Well, we live in a wireless world, and new laptops, not only Apple, HP as well, are, unfortunately, without a physical Ethernet port. We have WiFi6, and 160Mhz to (in theory) compensate it.

Yes, I don't need 500Mbps+ every day. Still, it would be nice to have, especially when I had this kind of performance on AC-only Asus or Amplify. I have a better performance on a 'stupid' cable modem, with 160Mbps support, delivered 'free' with my 1Gbps 'fibre' internet.

Ax3 is announced as a super powerful and great home AP. It is great, I can run Pihole in a container, and the CPU is at 1%. But for a HW claimed to be primarily an AP (hAP), WiFi performance is not the best. It makes me sad.
 
holvoetn
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat Feb 25, 2023 11:31 pm

I grew up in a time internet didn't even exist.
I still remember the sound of a 1200 baud modem.

That's 1200 bits per second.

People get addicted too fast to speed... And I'm not taking about that other thing.
 
PeterXC
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat Feb 25, 2023 11:47 pm

I grew up in a time internet didn't even exist.
I still remember the sound of a 1200 baud modem.

That's 1200 bits per second.

People get addicted too fast to speed... And I'm not taking about that other thing.
So do I. I understand your view. Still, why can’t I have the best performace? Especially when it was promised by MikroTik.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat Feb 25, 2023 11:49 pm

People get addicted too fast to speed... And I'm not taking about that other thing.
My clients expects 3 features …. And that is what I deliver
1. Stability
2. Performance
3. PERFORMANCE

And that is in every aspect …

In my market 90% have the very same expectation

The mainframe/Terminal days of horrible performance but OUTSTANDING stability only linger in the minds of high priests and Dinosaurs…😄
 
Rox169
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Feb 26, 2023 4:53 am

So .what gear do you sell then?
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Feb 26, 2023 9:52 am

Usualy the wrong gear, based on past experience viewtopic.php?p=849183#p849231
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Feb 26, 2023 1:56 pm

So .what gear do you sell then?
My primary focus in gear is as follows all depending on circumstances:
Routing + Firewall : MikroTik, UBNT, Custom Build with OPNsense or Arista [untangle]
Wireless AP's : UBNT, TP-Link, Ruckus [CommScope]
Switches : Tik, UBNT, Cisco
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Feb 26, 2023 4:47 pm

On TPlink gear I can create one SSID that includes both 2.4ghz and 5ghz chains........
Is that possible on AX3???

I would be happy if I could put all chains on one 5ghz SSID if that makes any sense.......
Lost in ax3 lala land
 
holvoetn
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Feb 26, 2023 4:59 pm

Yes, this is possible.
Why wouldn't it be ?
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Feb 26, 2023 5:10 pm

you could set both interfaces (one for 2,4 and one for 5ghz) to the same ssid name.
Last edited by theprojectgroup on Sun Feb 26, 2023 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Feb 26, 2023 5:15 pm

Is that the same as band steering, I dont think so!! You guys are clowns if you thought I meant simply assigning the same SSID to both chains....... egads... WTFUP
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Feb 26, 2023 5:28 pm

Then your question was not clear and unambiguous enough.
A network diagram, perhaps ? :lol:

If you want to do true band steering, you should set separate SSIDs, in my opinion.
If you set both chains using the same SSID, it's up to the client device to decide which radio will be used.
But you can "help" the client a bit with ACL rules (especially kick them off when below a certain threshold since client will try to stick to the same radio as long as possible) and/or lower TX power of 2GHz radio.
Or are you still talking about something else ??
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Feb 26, 2023 5:57 pm

Nice manners, please.
 
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mkx
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Feb 26, 2023 6:31 pm

There's no such thing as band steering in WiFiland. But I guess that devices have some preference built in and one can help them to select AP in their favourite band by enabling the whole suite of 802.11 r+k+v ... As far, as I know, MT implemented 802.11r (a.k.a. BSS fast transition) but not the other two, for those a working and full-featured capsman2 is probably necessary.
So seat back and relax :wink:
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Feb 26, 2023 7:06 pm

No band steering............ , by the way, maybe you dont know but there is something called flush toilets too. '=PP

Band Steering
Automatically moves dual band devices onto the wider 5GHz band for faster connections.
doesnt-exist-eh.jpg
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Feb 26, 2023 7:52 pm

Well, it is possible to make car, driving on a highway lane, to change to another lane by hitting it from a side, but I wouldn't call that "steering".

After you configure all the bells of 802.11r (the whistles of k+v are missing), you can configure access-list to kick devices off 2.4GHz radio at rather good signal strength. Devices tend to take it personally and veer off to another AP, hopefully a 5GHz one. Contrary to what many would think of first, you actually want to kick clients with excellent signal strength (because they likely have at least very good 5GHz signal they can work with). Then you want to allow clients with mediocre signal to save them from loosing wireless connection. And then you want to kick clients with bad signal because they won't be able to get any decent throughputs (and they are far away, probably neighbours :wink:).

A more considerate implementation would remember client's past behaviour. E.g. if a client with good signal, after being kicked, doesn't register back or keeps trying to register to 2.4GHz, then it might be a 2.4GHz-only client. Or some vendor might compile a device list grouped according to wireless capabilities - this option got expelled with "privacy enhanced" wireless faking their MAC addresses. But you can partially implement it for your own 2.4GHz-only devices by setting them always allowed in access-list. Probably some vendors came up with something even more sophisticated.
Last edited by mkx on Sun Feb 26, 2023 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Feb 26, 2023 8:19 pm

Long explanation for what I already said.
But maybe he will accept it coming from you :D
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Feb 26, 2023 8:29 pm

I am quite aware of using Access Rules for kicking folks off.
I tried to implement that once on some cAPACs, I was savaged by family members for screwing things up, and
it also buggered my own connectivity as we have a complex setup. So I am gun shy of that functionality.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Feb 26, 2023 8:35 pm

So I am gun shy of that functionality.
Anav my friend 😀 you are wasting your valuable retirement time with this … I know that you want to conquer this bugger but tell me something …. Is it really worth the struggle ??? Poke poke POKE 😀
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:51 pm

Hi,

just to be clear 800.11 r,k,w has been already implemented in ROS only 800.11v is missing. on the another hand it is implemented only on one AP, not on goup of AP, mybe in the new caps man,,,
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Feb 26, 2023 11:47 pm

"Band steering" should be better than "Access list signal limit kicking" and TX power level difference between 5GHz and 2.4GHz radio's.

Can MT wifiwave2 do this, what Engenius descibes as bandsteering ?
https://helpcenter.engeniustech.com/hc/ ... available-
How do you select the "Steering mode" in MT then???

"Band Steering" seems to be still something additional to 802.11 r,k,v https://www.mist.com/documentation/802- ... r-802-11v/

(My favorite) Fortinet has a strong control over client access, which only see one BSSID (MAC address of AP radio's are identical), as only some AP (radio) respond to a connection request, as steered by the controller.
Experienced: Used it with Fortigate cluster (HA controller) and 37 FortiAP
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Feb 27, 2023 11:48 am

Can MT wifiwave2 do this, what Engenius descibes as bandsteering ?

I don't think it can ... in current state. Apart from ACLs (which are static) there's no mechanism in ROS to ignore wireless clients when they try to associate ... which is, by the way, the gist of Engenius' implementation: ignore association requests on non-preferred band from devices which are known to support the preferred band (and the client support for different bands is built dynamically by letting client try to associate to any of APs serving same SSID, hopefully client will reveal support for 5GHz band by trying to associate to it).

Poor man's solution in ROS would be scheduled job, skimming through registration table of preferred band and set ACLs preventing devices to associate to non-preferred band. It's slow, clumsy and might break some clients.

Of course, all of that (proper solution and poor man's solution) work fine if there's a central wireless controller which correlates signalling from all APs serving same SSID.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Feb 27, 2023 12:02 pm

(My favorite) Fortinet has a strong control over client access, which only see one BSSID (MAC address of AP radio's are identical), as only some AP (radio) respond to a connection request, as steered by the controller.
That is basically a co-channel diversity network where all the APs are receiving and reporting the data and signal strength to the controller, so the controller can decide which AP will send data to that client. It is one big "virtual AP". The advantage is that there is no roaming issue, the disadvantage is that you use only a single channel so you limit the capacity of the network.
However, such a system can also run that same method on different channels (with different BSSID probably) in parallel, to increase capacity a little.
Of course not on all channels at the same time, as the transmitters would overwhelm the receivers, but maybe on 2 or 3 channels spread over the 5GHz band, with good filters.

MikroTik has no offerings in this area, but several other enterprise WiFi suppliers do.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Feb 27, 2023 12:13 pm

I don't think it can ... in current state. Apart from ACLs (which are static) there's no mechanism in ROS to ignore wireless clients when they try to associate
This weekend I finally implemented RADIUS-based access on my own home network. I had ACLs in both my main RB4011 and my hAP ac2 additional AP in another room, and merged all SSIDs into one to have several separate networks (VLANs) for different types of clients. Instead of having several virtual wireless interfaces with different SSID, which wastes airtime, I first put "use vlan" and vlan# into the ACL rules, then realized I needed to do that twice every time so I finally installed user-manager on the RB4011 to do it.
Now I only need to add the MAC of a client and put it in a group that sends the proper VLAN number, and it works on both APs.

During experiments with this, I found that the default of user-manager to allow only 1 connection per user breaks roaming. When the client tries to roam, it connects to the nearer AP, that sends a RADIUS request to user-manager, which sees "a second connection", rejects it, and the client gets refused. It immediately goes back to the other AP, but as it sees the weak connection and a stronger signal nearby, it keeps flipping. Only removing that single-connection setting per user resolved that.
(it is understandable that the user-manager thinks there are 2 connections because the original is not yet broken)

As the access request to RADIUS also includes the WiFi interface name, it seems it should be possible to reject requests coming in on 2 GHz and allow on 5 GHz.
However, it seems that user-manager is unable to do that, and neither can it have a "default user action", so you still need another RADIUS server.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Feb 27, 2023 3:05 pm

My questions are simple.
If we are supposed to leave things AUTO, and by that I mean dont select frequency. how does the MT select frequency and Tx power??
They provide scan and frequency tools, does this mean we are supposed to use those and forget AUTO, or does AUTO use that information for optimal frequency selection.

Here is what I was successful in getting working, minimally, I basically decided to avoid ax for 2ghz and
selected very basic stuff. The only delving into menus I did was to disable pmkid which I thought should be defaulted to disable??? and WPS disable.
Took me a while to get even this setup. Then realized I had no encryption, used to AES, didnt have a clue what CCMP was. :-)
Still not working then deciding to look at everything, interfaces checked out............. bridge ports OOPSIE frigging with the wifi settings means whatever was in bridge ports is gone.......or unknown.
Thus put the right interfaces there and then started working. The bridge ports is a gotcha as we are used to the MT replacing interfaces with the new name as you do the work..........

/interface wifiwave2 channel
add band=5ghz-ax disabled=no name=channel1 width=20/40/80mhz
add band=2ghz-g disabled=no name=channel2 width=20mhz
/interface wifiwave2 configuration
add channel=channel1 channel.band=5ghz-ax .width=20/40/80mhz country="Canada" disabled=no mode=ap name=cfg1 ssid=MT1
add channel=channel2 channel.band=2ghz-g .width=20mhz country="Canada" disabled=no mode=ap name=cfg2 ssid=MT2
/interface wifiwave2 security
add authentication-types=wpa2-psk comment="Trusted Password" disable-pmkid=yes disabled=no name=HOME wps=disable
/interface wifiwave2
set [ find default-name=wifi1 ] channel=channel1 comment="5GH - WIFI" configuration.mode=ap .ssid=MT1 disabled=no security=HOME
set [ find default-name=wifi2 ] channel=channel2 comment="2GHz WIFI" configuration=cfg2 configuration.country="Canada" .mode=ap .ssid=MT2 disabled=no security=HOME
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Feb 27, 2023 3:20 pm

"a second connection"
As expected, no ?
We want to have fast roaming. And some roaming enhancements connect before they disconnect.
The client device will not continu with 2 connections.

On the other hand, I did not limit the number of connections per named user, for other reasons.
In a holiday resort each vacation home tenant gets a username/password for the family. Anyway they come with multiple devices (PC,tablet,smartphone,smartwatch ...) and multiple family members.
It is all one and the same account. Number of connections is not the problem, data volume is the quantity to be limited, even more than speed.
I split the authenticating RADIUS server (3th party) from the accounting RADIUS server (e.g. MT Usermanager, ROS 6), by blocking accounting packets to the authenticating/authorizing server, and using "Accounting Backup" for the accounting server. (Accounting server has usernames, not passwords).

With RADIUS and username/password, one does AAA on the user , not on the device. Random private administered MAC addresses is no problem in this.
Roaming is smooth and fast. (30 AP's, 40 named users, +- 280 connections and more)
RADIUS should be able to set the VLAN for that RADIUS user (same WLAN-wifi mechanism as with the local ACL, but on username not MAC and ACL). Didn't test that yet.
3th party RADIUS and accounting RADIUS to be replaced by hAP ax3 if user based VLAN setting works , actually not for it's wifi, but for the ROS licence level 6, and User manager ROS7.
[ RB5009 is only licence level 5 = max 50 wifi sessions via Usermanager with accounting :-( ]
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Feb 27, 2023 4:00 pm

My questions are simple.
If we are supposed to leave things AUTO, and by that I mean dont select frequency. how does the MT select frequency and Tx power??
They provide scan and frequency tools, does this mean we are supposed to use those and forget AUTO, or does AUTO use that information for optimal frequency selection.
AUTO does a one-time scan at each boot to find the "least used channel" and selects that. It then configures the highest allowed TX power according to local regulations for that channel.
As usual this is far from optimal. You need to make at least a channel list with channels 1, 6 and 11 (2412, 2437, 2462 MHz) for 2 GHz and apply that, or else it will choose a random channel like 3 or 8 and foul up the carrier detection in the area. Really substandard that MikroTik does not use 1-6-11 channel selection by default.

Also (like many other manufacturers) it does not do a re-scan of the spectrum at any time after boot. So changed circumstances on the RF spectrum are never taken into account.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Feb 27, 2023 4:03 pm

"a second connection"
As expected, no ?
We want to have fast roaming. And some roaming enhancements connect before they disconnect.
The client device will not continu with 2 connections.
I "expected" this problem only after having encountered it. As I wrote, it is obvious why it happens but not so obvious to me why the default in user-manager is 1 connection, thus causing problems when roaming. Limiting to 1 connection should be left to the user, and only when connections are used for things like PPPoE with fixed address.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:59 pm

As usual this is far from optimal. You need to make at least a channel list with channels 1, 6 and 11 (2412, 2437, 2462 MHz) for 2 GHz and apply that, or else it will choose a random channel like 3 or
Why would I not want it to select channel 3 if everyone else is hogging 1 and 6 LOL, it would be better than choosing 1 or 6 NO. At least at peak channel 3 freq I am flying solo
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Feb 27, 2023 7:59 pm

No, you're not alone.
You will have interference from 1 and 6 which is worse then co-existence.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Feb 27, 2023 9:07 pm

Indeed. Your AP on channel 3 will not detect the transmissions from others on 1 and 6, so it will transmit at the same time as them, instead of waiting for the channel to be clear.
And due to the overlap, it will have interference from (and cause interference to) both channel 1 and 6.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Feb 27, 2023 9:43 pm

SImple wifi AP devices, select the lowest occupied or lowest energy intense wifi channel, and as such select the typical signal dip for channel 3 and 8.
Seen too often. Fully agree with this text for years: https://metis.fi/en/2018/10/rrm-en/
Keeps us busy in this formum ....on "poor wifi performance" topics.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Feb 27, 2023 10:03 pm

SImple wifi AP devices, select the lowest occupied or lowest energy intense wifi channel, and as such select the typical signal dip for channel 3 and 8.
But at work I have installed a system from the other well-known competitor in the "cheap" market segment, and without any configuration it selects only channel 1, 6 or 11 when setting to auto. So it can be done.
On my MikroTiks at home I use this channel list:
/interface wireless channels
add band=2ghz-b/g/n frequency=2412 list=ch1_6_11 name=ch1 width=20
add band=2ghz-b/g/n frequency=2437 list=ch1_6_11 name=ch6 width=20
add band=2ghz-b/g/n frequency=2462 list=ch1_6_11 name=ch11 width=20

 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Feb 27, 2023 11:49 pm

Good channel list.
I don't trust "auto", not even the XXXX in 20/40/80 XXXX. Check the 80 MHz channel alignment !
viewtopic.php?t=183744&hilit=Interestin ... nt#p918062
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:04 am

Too bad wifiwave2 doesn't allow constructing frequency lists ... or does it? Entries under /interface/wifiwave2/channel don't seem to have property list available?
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:35 am

But you can :D
Tab Channel, frequency, use the drop down arrow to add frequencies.
2023-02-28_09-36-46.jpg
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Tue Feb 28, 2023 11:21 am

Good channel list.
I don't trust "auto", not even the XXXX in 20/40/80 XXXX. Check the 80 MHz channel alignment !
viewtopic.php?t=183744&hilit=Interestin ... nt#p918062
What is your recommendation for 5GHz channel list? Would you go for all Ceee or eCee?
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Tue Feb 28, 2023 11:27 am

I have set my hAP ax3 to the following which for me works well:
/interface/wifiwave2/channel
add band=2ghz-ax frequency=2412,2437,2462 name=2ghz-1_6_11 width=20mhz skip-dfs-channels=disabled
add band=5ghz-ax frequency=5500,5520,5540,5560 name=5ghz-no_dfs width=20/40/80mhz skip-dfs-channels=disabled
I took the non-restricted channels my country(south africa) is supporting for 5ghz from here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels

So far so good and I can maintain 750+mbit on 5ghz and with 2.4ghz i can reach to end of my house which is all I wanted to begin with. This wasn't the case with the defaults.

Edit: just to add - I pointed the top round edge of the antenna in the direction I wanted the best signal(perpendicular). sounds crazy but it made a difference for me.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:27 pm

The way @pe1chl showed actually allows to have different channel parameters depending on selected centre frequency. When simply listing frequencies in single statement all the rest of properties have to be the same. So the new way is not as flexible as the old one ... sigh, I guess we'll have to get used to new reality with much reduced flexibility.

Re. 5GHz channel list: I guess the most straight forward (and proper) way of doing them is to select some channel layout (perhaps @bpwl knows how other vendors do it, but I guess Ceee would be a good starting point) and then set frequencies to those which should according to standard. If one takes channel list from wikipedia ... then proper frequency for Ceee channel (with maximum backward compatibility) would be e.g. 5260 ... because 5260 is fine for single 20MHz channel (number 52) and for Ce 40MHz channel (number 54) and for Ceee 80MHz channel (number 58). If one throws in 160MHz (or 80+80), then it should be e.g. Ceeeeeee with frequency 5180.
I guess that when setting channel layout to XXXX it should be possible to use any of (5260, 5280, 5300, 5320) as frequency and ROS will (hopefully) select right channel layout which goes with selected frequency. But there's room for bugs here and in worst case some wireless clients won't like it.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:30 pm

In the "old" wifi driver there is a bug that means that your channel list will fail to work after export/import when its name starts with a digit.
The export fails to put the list name in quotes, and the import assumes it is a literal frequency list (like 2412,2437,2462) when it starts with a digit, then errors out with a syntax error.
I don't know if this has ever been fixed, but after having been bitten by this I use the name ch1_6_11 instead.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:42 pm

I don't know if this has ever been fixed, but after having been bitten by this I use the name ch1_6_11 instead.
Good tip !
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:58 pm

In the "old" wifi driver there is a bug that means that your channel list will fail to work after export/import when its name starts with a digit.
Thanks for that. I will change the name just in case.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Wed Mar 01, 2023 10:58 am

I have the same issue after upgrading to 7.7. TX Rate on 5Ghz went down from 1200Mbps to 800-400. Later the same day any of my devices weren't able to see 5Ghz network at all.
Downgraded to 7.6 and everything works well now.
Opened ticket to support, let's see what they will answer.

Device is hap ax3.
Hello!
I also want to do a firmware downgrade on a hap ax2 from 7.8 to 7.6 (also, I have signal problems). Please tell me, step by step, the downgrade steps (because there are two firmware files and wifiwave2). I don't want to use Netinstall!! Only downgrade.
Thank you very much.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Wed Mar 01, 2023 11:52 am

A side tip. On 2.4ghz band you should use ch 1,6,11, as they don't overlap, but in real life, your neighbors, most likely, will not follow this practice. As result, it does not matter if you use 1,6,11, if you neighbor is using ch2, 40mhz wide. You should use the cleanest channel you have in your environment. At work I have full control over APs, so there I can use 1.6.11.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Wed Mar 01, 2023 12:14 pm

It is like saying "you should not dump trash in your public park. but in real life, your neighbors will do it anyway. so you can just as well dump your trash in the park!".
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Wed Mar 01, 2023 3:02 pm

I have the same issue after upgrading to 7.7. TX Rate on 5Ghz went down from 1200Mbps to 800-400. Later the same day any of my devices weren't able to see 5Ghz network at all.
Downgraded to 7.6 and everything works well now.
Opened ticket to support, let's see what they will answer.

Device is hap ax3.
Hello!
I also want to do a firmware downgrade on a hap ax2 from 7.8 to 7.6 (also, I have signal problems). Please tell me, step by step, the downgrade steps (because there are two firmware files and wifiwave2). I don't want to use Netinstall!! Only downgrade.
Thank you very much.
1. Make backup
2. Download RouterOS https://download.mikrotik.com/routeros/ ... -arm64.npk and https://download.mikrotik.com/routeros/ ... 64-7.6.zip
3. Unzip all_packages-arm64-7.6.zip
4. Upload routeros-7.6-arm64.npk and wifiwave2-7.6-arm64.npk to File list (Winbox menu: Files)
5. System > Packages > Click Downgrade
 
erlinden
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Wed Mar 01, 2023 4:44 pm

Instead/besides a backup, you can also perform an export which will save your configuration:
https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/display/ ... tandExport
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Wed Mar 01, 2023 6:08 pm

On Ubiquiti there is a band steering option and it's working excellent, on Mikrotik when 2.4 and 5 GHz radios are given same SSID phone reports this network as dual band (it says 2.4/5 after SSID) but for me, this just mean that device will connect to the 2.4 GHz and even ACL will not force it to stay connected to 5GHz on ax2.

When I tried to force clients to stay connected to 5 GHz with ACL devices just keep trying to connect to 2.4 GHz.

I reduced channel width to 20/40 for 5GHz as i really don't have need for 1200 Mbps speed (internet is 170/150 so even 40 MHz channel is never fully saturated)

And 2.4 GHz channel is 20 MHz. Frequency is fixed, i scanned my area and set WiFi to free channels. ( I live in a house and there really is no other networks other than my that could interfere with my WiFi, only one very weak 2.4 from neighbour, and no 5 GHz)

I ended up simply separating 2.4 and 5 GHz bands but on ax2 i experience wifi "crapout", less now that 7.8 is out... And i have few other issues as upload is at max spees but download is half that speed...
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Wed Mar 01, 2023 6:15 pm



Hello!
I also want to do a firmware downgrade on a hap ax2 from 7.8 to 7.6 (also, I have signal problems). Please tell me, step by step, the downgrade steps (because there are two firmware files and wifiwave2). I don't want to use Netinstall!! Only downgrade.
Thank you very much.
1. Make backup
2. Download RouterOS https://download.mikrotik.com/routeros/ ... -arm64.npk and https://download.mikrotik.com/routeros/ ... 64-7.6.zip
3. Unzip all_packages-arm64-7.6.zip
4. Upload routeros-7.6-arm64.npk and wifiwave2-7.6-arm64.npk to File list (Winbox menu: Files)
5. System > Packages > Click Downgrade
Successfully downgraded to 7.6!
Thank you.
 
marsbeetle
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Wed Mar 01, 2023 10:07 pm

Is ROS 7.6 still better than 7.8 in terms of wifi stability and signal strength? …surely not.
 
PeterXC
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Wed Mar 01, 2023 10:13 pm

On Ubiquiti there is a band steering option and it's working excellent, on Mikrotik when 2.4 and 5 GHz radios are given same SSID phone reports this network as dual band (it says 2.4/5 after SSID) but for me, this just mean that device will connect to the 2.4 GHz and even ACL will not force it to stay connected to 5GHz on ax2.

When I tried to force clients to stay connected to 5 GHz with ACL devices just keep trying to connect to 2.4 GHz.
For me, acl on Wireless rejecting mac from 2.4 interface worked without issues.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Mar 02, 2023 5:22 am

Is ROS 7.6 still better than 7.8 in terms of wifi stability and signal strength? …surely not.
In my case, as a hap ax2 user, in ros 7.6 the signal strength is about 20% better than 7.7 and 7.8. As for stability, in 7.6 I had two situations where I found all devices disconnected from the wireless router. I don't know the reason for the disconnection. I am a basic user of these Mikrotik routers.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Mar 02, 2023 7:06 am

As for stability, in 7.6 I had two situations where I found all devices disconnected from the wireless router. I don't know the reason for the disconnection. I am a basic user of these Mikrotik routers.
From 5Ghz radio only or from both? A radar detection events trigger a disconnection on 5Ghz DFS channels... Next time check the log.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Mar 02, 2023 11:23 am

I have the same issue after upgrading to 7.7. TX Rate on 5Ghz went down from 1200Mbps to 800-400. Later the same day any of my devices weren't able to see 5Ghz network at all.
Downgraded to 7.6 and everything works well now.
Opened ticket to support, let's see what they will answer.

Device is hap ax3.
What does the support say?

Is ROS 7.6 still better than 7.8 in terms of wifi stability and signal strength? …surely not.
7.8Beta and 7.8RC there was no improvement
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:53 am

As for stability, in 7.6 I had two situations where I found all devices disconnected from the wireless router. I don't know the reason for the disconnection. I am a basic user of these Mikrotik routers.
From 5Ghz radio only or from both? A radar detection events trigger a disconnection on 5Ghz DFS channels... Next time check the log.
The decrease in signal strength is manifested in both 2.4 and 5Ghz channels
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:22 am

Decreasing signal strength after installing an update (any manufacturer!) can sometimes be caused by the restrictions in the country where you live.
When the law specifies a lower max power than the usual defaults over the world, and the manufacturer did not know about that, they may change the country table once they hear about it, and from that time on you will have less power in the same access point.
Another issue is that for some bands (this should not affect 2 GHz but it does affect 5 GHz) the max power is not the same for all channels.
When you have set the frequency to "auto" the access point selects a channel based on current occupation and it may be that after an upgrade it selects a different channel (either randomly or because of changed detection rules), and now it has a channel with lower power limits. Then it will reduce the power.
You can work around this by changing the installation "indoor/outdoor/any" settings and/or by setting a fixed channel frequency instead of "auto".
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:40 pm

The problem I'm seeing on my hAP ax3 is that the signal strength(reach) is not much better on 2ghz than it is on 5ghz. Normally this wouldn't be a problem but when your main seating location falls within this range you get disconnects and constant flapping between the two radio's. I still have my old hAP ac2 as a backup and this never gave any issues with the same wifi configuration(other than the driver)

I've seen too many complaints with the same hardware to assume it is configuration based and I've tried so many different things that I'm now just going to leave it in the hope it improves with future updates.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Mar 09, 2023 1:11 pm

I dropped tx-power on the 2GHz radio to 12 so that clients prefer the 5GHz radio. It doesn't seem to affect 2.4GHz connectivity much when you're far enough away for the 5GHz signal to be attenuated.
 
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mkx
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Mar 09, 2023 1:22 pm

I dropped tx-power on the 2GHz radio to 12 so that clients prefer the 5GHz radio.

You could try to "push" clients to 5GHz using access-list rules. I constructed a set of rules on my Audience (ac device running wifiwave2 in ROS v7.8):
add action=reject allow-signal-out-of-range=10s comment="kick clients with too good signal, hopefully they'll reconnect on 5GHz AP" interface=wifi-2G signal-range=-65..120
add action=accept interface=wifi-2G
add action=reject allow-signal-out-of-range=10s interface=wifi-5G signal-range=-120..-80
add action=accept interface=wifi-5G
Before I did these rules, some of wireless clients sticked to 2.4GHz band no matter what. With these settings, they are kicked to 5GHz band. The cut-off value (-65dBm in my example) has to be set according to Tx power of both bands and the point where 5GHz signal drops below usable level, my device is operating at default (i.e. maximum allowed) Tx powers.

The problem: as it seems now, rules work fine when device does initial connection to the AP. However, it doesn't get kicked off 2.4GHz channel if the signal level raises above the threshold. I haven't done thorough testing yet, but with default logging config nothing is in logs that would indicate that AP is trying to kick off the "offending" device.
So I wonder if failing to kick off the device is a bug in wifiwave2 driver or error in my config?
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Mar 09, 2023 2:10 pm

There is no signal range on your accept ACL rules. So the device will stick under all signal conditions on that accept rule, once it gets there,
That is when it did not match (even just once) the reject rule in your list.

reject signal range = -120..-66
accept signal range = -65..120
... the accept rule will now stop when below -65 dBm for longer than the 'allow-signal-out-of-range' time, And the rules will be re-evaluated, top down when reconnecting.
 
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mkx
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Mar 09, 2023 3:57 pm

That is when it did not match (even just once) the reject rule in your list.
Right. I adjusted the rules that did not include signal-range to have one. Will test and report back.


Edit:

Here's report: I had to roll back the ACL changes.

My daughter has a Nokia 7.1 android phone which seemingly doesn't like being kicked off. After being kicked off it started to see two wireless networks with same SSID (one formed by Audience and one formed by other, older, APs without ACL set up) and wouldn't connect to either of them. After phone was restarted it connected Audience (its signal was strongest) and would drop very soon. After ACL setup roll-back and phone restart, everything returned to normality (it took a while longer for daughter's mood to pick up again).
Last edited by mkx on Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:38 pm

I just got an ax3 as a drop-in replacement for a hap ac and quickly discovered the poor wifi bandwidth issue discussed in this thread. Using the same test devices (Samsung Galaxy s10e, Windows 11 PC with Intel Killer wifi 6E ax1675x adapter, and Microsoft Surface w/ Intel wireless) from the same locations, using Speedtest to the same server, the ax3 has 1/4 the wifi bandwidth of the ac (51 mb/s vs 222 mb/s). I am just starting the process of figuring out why, but my first question/issue is chains. The Mikrotik specs say the ax3 has 2 chains for 2G and 2 for 5G. Winbox-wireless-radios show 0-1 for both tx and rx for both 2G and 5G. In addition, I cannot change the chains configuration. When I try, the interface gets removed and an error "chains not supported" is displayed in its place. So, my first question is why the radios show 0-1 chains. It implies that there could be two chains which would probably be shown as 1-1. On the other hand, 1 chain for rx and one chain for tx might meet the spec for 2 chains (with a little deceptive marketing).

As background, the ac and ax3 are/were configured as access points only. Both are/were directly connected to a CCR-1009-7G which is directly connected to my cable modem. Everything Mikrotik is running v7.8. I have tried to match the ac and ax3 configurations as closely as possible.

Gripe paragraph: Given the wifi bandwidth issues, the discovery that old capsman does not support the ax3 and the new capsman does not support my other 7 ap's, I am really disappointed with the ax3. I can live with having to separately configure the ax3 with no capsman, but cannot live with 1/4 the wifi bandwidth.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:47 pm

What does /interface/wifiwave2/monitor 0 (and 1) say about used Tx power? It should be somewhere above 20[dBm] ...

I don't think you have to set chains ... it'll just use all chains available in hardware.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:43 pm

It says 26. 2G tx power is 27.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:31 pm

I just got an ax3 as a drop-in replacement for a hap ac and quickly discovered the poor wifi bandwidth issue discussed in this thread. Using the same test devices (Samsung Galaxy s10e, Windows 11 PC with Intel Killer wifi 6E ax1675x adapter, and Microsoft Surface w/ Intel wireless) from the same locations, using Speedtest to the same server, the ax3 has 1/4 the wifi bandwidth of the ac (51 mb/s vs 222 mb/s).
What is your cpu temperature on idle and on load?
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:08 am

54C. I do not know how to put it under load but typically there are only about 6 wifi clients at a time and three clients connected via ethernet ports. In other words, it is never highly loaded.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:27 am

I thought I posted the following but do not see it so here I go again.

I ran a bunch of btest's involving 2 hap ac's and the ax3. All of them flow through the CCR router. The results are mysterious but maybe related to the wifi issues.

AC1 <-> AC2
- sending @ 755Mb/s
- receiving @ 790Mb/s
- it does not matter which AC runs the client

Any AC <-> AX3
- client on AC
-- sending @ 95Mb/s
-- receiving @ 945Mb/s
- client on AX3
-- sending @ 945Mb/s
-- receiving @ 95Mb/s

Notice the order of magnitude difference between sending and receiving when the ax3 is involved. The ax3 has been connected to the ccr via ether1 (2.5G) or one of the 1G ethernet ports with no change in results. Any explanation or suggestions are appreciated.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:29 am

Hi, your tests make no sence..how you can get on AC 945Mb/s? Iguess you mean thorough LAN.
 
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mkx
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:53 am

Hi, your tests make no sence..how you can get on AC 945Mb/s?

The old hAP ac (not the new ac2 variant) has 3 chains on 5GHz radio and has thus up to 1300Mbps interface rate. hAP ax3, OTOH, has only 2 chains and thus supports up to 866Mbps interface rate (if running in ac compatibility)or 1200Mbps interface rate (if running in ax mode). All numbers are for 80MHz channel, according to specs hAP ac doesn't support 160MHz channels.

So yes, one does wonder how on Earth can AC<->AX work at such a high rate.
 
PeterXC
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:04 am

Hi, your tests make no sence..how you can get on AC 945Mb/s?

The old hAP ac (not the new ac2 variant) has 3 chains on 5GHz radio and has thus up to 1300Mbps interface rate. hAP ax3, OTOH, has only 2 chains and thus supports up to 866Mbps interface rate (if running in ac compatibility)or 1200Mbps interface rate (if running in ax mode). All numbers are for 80MHz channel, according to specs hAP ac doesn't support 160MHz channels.
Looking at specs you shared, if you have a mixed ac/ax devices you should not go for ax3 as it will perform worse than ac2, right?
 
maigonis
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:25 am

Those who have poor throughput performance, what PHY speed do you see? I use ax3 whit capsman v2 and performance is great. Real wold speeds are around 500-600mbps in the same room/open space. ac2 performance was x2 slower as capsman v1 throughput is around 350mbps (80mhz channel).
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Mar 10, 2023 1:33 pm

Just some technical things ....

https://mcsindex.com/

- AC with VHT goes up to 866Mbps interface rate with 2-stream on 80 MHz bandwidth (using 256QAM). The well known limit.
- AX with HE goes up to 1024 QAM encoding and has wider channels (see mcsindex table for interface rates
- Other stream combinations are in the mcsindex table.
- What is the AC 80+80 (primary + secondary) doing, in performance ?

In practice, and that practical limit is strong with MT classic drivers, the net data transfer rate is reduced because the air-time is shared among all transmitters in the channel, and the channel-contention process requires gaps between successive transmissions.
With small transmission packets, the gap loss for every transmission in VHT becomes very important with higher rates. Classic MT drivers have small A-MSDU (MPDU) and small A-MPDU, and don't use the standard large transmissions.
viewtopic.php?p=951438&#p951138. The impact of this on the data rate can be calculated

What is AX , with HE instead of VHT doing with this? https://www.extremenetworks.com/wifi6/what-is-80211ax/
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Mar 10, 2023 5:37 pm

Hi, your tests make no sence..how you can get on AC 945Mb/s? Iguess you mean thorough LAN.
Yes, I meant LAN only. For now, I have taken wifi out of my investigation, although I wonder if the LAN-only weirdness is related to my poor wifi performance. Sorry for all the confusion.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Mar 10, 2023 5:52 pm

(snip) ...hAP ax3, OTOH, has only 2 chains and thus supports up to 866Mbps interface rate (if running in ac compatibility)or 1200Mbps interface rate (if running in ax mode). All numbers are for 80MHz channel, according to specs hAP ac doesn't support 160MHz channels. ... (snip)

This relates to my earlier post where I said /interfaces/wireless/radios reports there is one tx chain and one rx chain for both the 5G and 2G radios. Is that what you mean when you said the ax3 has only 2 chains (1+1)?
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Mar 10, 2023 6:13 pm

according to specs hAP ac doesn't support 160MHz channels.
But AFAIK it does support 80+80MHz. 80+80 = Primary+secondary.
The "secondary" option appears in Winbox only when 20/40/80 bandwidth is choosen.
The secondary channel is 80MHz only. (No Ceee notation, so maybe they use the mid-freq notation only for the secondary (as specified in HELP for wifiwave2)
WLAN:

secondary-channel (integer; Default: "")	

Specifies secondary channel, required to enable 80+80MHz transmission. To disable 80+80MHz functionality, set secondary-channel to "" or unset the value via CLI/GUI.

wifiwave2:

secondary-frequency (list of integers | 'disabled')
	
Frequency (in MHz) to use for the center of the secondary part of a split 80+80MHz channel.
Only official 80MHz channels (5210, 5290, 5530, 5610, 5690, 5775) are supported.
Leave unset (default) for automatic selection of secondary channel frequency.
.
.

What is the throughput? Well it looks promising : https://www.qnap.com/en/how-to/faq/arti ... or-wi-fi-5
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Mar 10, 2023 6:37 pm

Those who have poor throughput performance, what PHY speed do you see? I use ax3 whit capsman v2 and performance is great. Real wold speeds are around 500-600mbps in the same room/open space. ac2 performance was x2 slower as capsman v1 throughput is around 350mbps (80mhz channel).
With my Surface I see tx-516, rx=344. Running a Speedtest, I get 94Mb/s down, up is capped at 18Mb/s. Running Speedtest connected to a hap ac I get 134Mb/s down. Last week I was at a location with wifi6 (I do not know the equipment) and I got 392Mb/s down.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Mar 10, 2023 6:47 pm

radios show 0-1 chains
Or shows/means chains 0-1 , that is 2 chains, number 0 and number 1. This is confirmed by the documentation.
2.4GHz has 2 chains (named chain 0 and 1), 5 GHz has 2 chains (named chain 0 and 1).
The chains on radio 2.4GHz and 5 GHz are independent, they can use the same antenna.

AFAIK chain 0 must always be selected for receiving, chain 1 is optional, is selected or not for RX.
TX could be on 1 or 0, or 0 and 1 (default)
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Mar 10, 2023 6:54 pm

bpwl can you tag a WLAN??

typical MT setup - access port
/interface bridge port
add bridge=bridge interface=WLAN1 pvid=5
/interface bridge vlan
add bridge=bridge tagged=bridge untagged=WLAN1 vlan-ids=5


Possible?
trunk port
/interface bridge port
add bridge=bridge interface=WLAN1
/interface bridge vlan
add bridge=bridge tagged=bridge,WLAN1 vlan-ids=5
 
TomSF
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:12 pm

radios show 0-1 chains
Or shows/means chains 0-1 , that is 2 chains, number 0 and number 1. This is confirmed by the documentation.
2.4GHz has 2 chains (named chain 0 and 1), 5 GHz has 2 chains (named chain 0 and 1).
The chains on radio 2.4GHz and 5 GHz are independent, they can use the same antenna.

AFAIK chain 0 must always be selected for receiving, chain 1 is optional, is selected or not for RX.
TX could be on 1 or 0, or 0 and 1 (default)
Thanks. That clears up my chain confusion.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:17 pm

Hi, your tests make no sence..how you can get on AC 945Mb/s? Iguess you mean thorough LAN.
Yes, I meant LAN only. For now, I have taken wifi out of my investigation, although I wonder if the LAN-only weirdness is related to my poor wifi performance. Sorry for all the confusion.
I realized I had not tested one btest scenario; ax3<->ccr.
With client on ax3
- receive=95.4
- send=955
With client on ccr
- receive=957
- send=95.6
Those numbers match the btest results between a hap ac and the ax3, which makes sense since the packets are flowing through the ccr to and from the ax3. So, the issue seems to be between the ax3 and ccr. That would also explain wifi issues with the ax3 since all packets have to flow through the ccr. Any suggestions/solutions to the ethernet issues between the ax3 and the ccr? Again, all btest'ing is LAN only!
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:51 pm

bpwl can you tag a WLAN??
Yes

What happens with the WLAN1 wireless settings ..... when set to

(case 1) If "Vlan mode = use tag", "VLAN ID = 5" , the packets from the bridge will be filtered on VLAN ID, will be tagged when sent to the bridge, untagged when sent to wifi
WLAN1 now acts a a VLAN aware switch, where the wifi side is an access port for PVID=5, and the bridge side is a trunk port
(*) !

(case 2) If "Vlan mode = no tag", "VLAN ID = 1" , no VLAN filtering done, the packet tags will not be touched when sent out to wifi, or when received from wifi
WLAN1 now acts as a dump switch, totally unaware of VLANs, and just forwards everything as is.

Your Access port
case 1: WLAN wifi will send packets it receives as tagged with the correct VLAN ID from the bridge as untagged wifi , and delivers wifi received untagged as VLAN tagged to the bridge : not as expected for a bridge access port
case 2: the VLAN 5 packets will be untagged by the bridge (access port) and as such sent and received as untagged by WLAN wifi (as is / untouched / dumb / transparent )

Your Trunk port
case 1: WLAN wifi will send and receive VLAN tagged packets from and to the bridge with the correct VLAN ID, and wifi send or receive them as untagged wifi.
case 2: the VLAN packets if delivered as VLAN tagged by the bridge are sent and received untouched as VLAN tagged wifi by WLAN (VLAN over wifi is no problem, even hybrid)

(*) access lists overrule the VLAN ID and VLAN Mode "use tag" or "no tag" setting per connection , if set in the access list rule !!! I expect RADIUS attributes to do similar things.

case 1 : WLAN1 bridge side is tagged, wifi side is untagged
case 2 : WLAN1 unaware of VLAN, just forwards as is

Double VLAN tags to be studied. (VLAN tunneling, Q-in-Q, Tag stacking, ..... ) .... pfffff
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:49 pm



Yes, I meant LAN only. For now, I have taken wifi out of my investigation, although I wonder if the LAN-only weirdness is related to my poor wifi performance. Sorry for all the confusion.
I realized I had not tested one btest scenario; ax3<->ccr.
With client on ax3
- receive=95.4
- send=955
With client on ccr
- receive=957
- send=95.6
Those numbers match the btest results between a hap ac and the ax3, which makes sense since the packets are flowing through the ccr to and from the ax3. So, the issue seems to be between the ax3 and ccr. That would also explain wifi issues with the ax3 since all packets have to flow through the ccr. Any suggestions/solutions to the ethernet issues between the ax3 and the ccr? Again, all btest'ing is LAN only!
For what it might be worth, I did one more test. I put a hap ac between the ax3 and the ccr and did a btest between the ac and the ax3. The numbers were the same as the test between the ax3 and the ccr. Is there an ax3 user out there that would perform a similar test between their ax3 and a router it is connected to? Is it unreasonable to expect ethernet tx and rx symmetry with the ax3, given that there is symmetry with a hap ac?
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:51 pm

Between ax3 and rb5009, close to 2.3g using 2.5 ether port.
Up and down.
Both devices on 7.8
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat Mar 11, 2023 12:04 am

Between ax3 and rb5009, close to 2.3g using 2.5 ether port.
Up and down.
Both devices on 7.8
Thanks for the info. Just to be sure, you were using btest reported numbers?
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:14 am

Yes.
Btest results from AX3 to rB5009, first send, then receive (other way around performing test on RB5009 towards AX3 is same)
On send cpu on AX3 was close to 100%, on RB around 75-80%.
On receive (oddly enough) it became around AX3 70% / RB 50%. Not clear to me why there is such a difference but as we all know, btest is not to be run on the device itself you are testing. Those are the only ones I have with a port capable of 2.5Gb so nothing else available to fill that pipe :lol:

2023-03-11_06-20-51.jpg

Someone will surely make a remark about the packet loss. I redid the test using TCP, results as follows:
AX3 -> RB5009:
RX: 2.1Gbps
TX: 940Mbps (CPU local on 34%, remote on 53%)
0 packet loss

And now some will be triggered, so redid the same test from RB to AX3:
TX 2.2 Gbps
RX 2.3Gbps (CPU on AX3 was not 0%, that's a bug I've seen appearing from time to time in that tool. I saw it was around 91%)
0 packet loss

The connection between AX3 and RB5009 is as far as I can conclude perfectly capable of delivering those speeds in both directions.
But it depends where you start.
Again, btest is NOT a tool you should run on the device under test.

2023-03-11_06-36-18.jpg
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat Mar 11, 2023 5:13 pm

Great info, thanks. Yes, I know not to run btest on the router but desperate times call for desperate measures. In my testing I only experienced packet loss when I had the direction set to "both". I have done so many tests that I have gotten totally confused. I am going to rerun tests and record the results methodically in preparation for submitting a support ticket to MT. I'll post a condensed version of the results when I am done. One thing I discovered is that I can get even weirder results by playing with the btest local and remote transfer speeds.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Mar 12, 2023 3:00 am

My problem has been solved, and it only took me most of the day!! Once I turned off hardware offload for the ax3 port connected to the ccr, the order of magnitude difference between Tx and Rx went away. My Speetest results went from 94.7 to 233 (not quite as good as the 241 when I was associated with a hAP ac). During my tests I noticed that my low Speedtest result was exactly the same as btest send speed to the ax3 or the receive speed when btest was running on the ax3, so I was convinced that something was throttling wifi speeds. What is odd is that my PC is wired to a port on the ax3 and Speedtest run on the PC got 608 which is probably all my ISP is giving me. I cannot explain why the PC speed was not affected by the hardware offload issue.

Another unexplained weirdness was that when btesting to a btest server on my PC, with the default 20 connections, I only can send at 11.7 Kbs. Yes, Kbs! When I change the connections to 1, I send at 710 Mb/s. Also, I cannot connect from the PC btest to any btest server running on a Mikrotik device. At this point, I don't really need to figure out those issues.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Mar 12, 2023 8:27 pm

A brief update. I found Mikrotik documentation that said hardware offload for the IPQ PPE chip used in the ax3 is a work in progress and to not use it. Instead, turn on rstp for the bridge. I turned off hardware offload for all the ports and turned on rstp. Speedtest now has 764 download speed! That is better than my PC wired to the ax3.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:08 pm

I turned on rstp, but not sure where you disable hardware offloading. Any clues?
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:14 pm

I turned on rstp, but not sure where you disable hardware offloading. Any clues?
I found two places that look relevant. In the switch settings, uncheck the box that says, "Switch all ports". Then for each bridge port (I have all ports in the bridge), uncheck the box that says, "Hardware offload".
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:18 pm

Thanks, that didn't seem to do anything for me, still stuck at 500Mbps with capsman enabled compared to 7-800Mbps without.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:23 pm

Thanks, that didn't seem to do anything for me, still stuck at 500Mbps with capsman enabled compared to 7-800Mbps without.
I am not using capsman, since I only have 1 wifiwave2 device and its capsman cannot configure my other 7 access points.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:42 pm

Interesting, enabling rstp on the capsman device (rb5009) has increased speeds to ~670Mbps.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Mar 13, 2023 9:00 am

Thanks, that didn't seem to do anything for me, still stuck at 500Mbps with capsman enabled compared to 7-800Mbps without.

Do you have local-forwarding set to no in CAPsMAN datapath configuration (it's default so this property might not be shown in export)? This setting is known to reduce throughput for wireless clients due to much increased processing overhead (CAP has to push all traffic in an encrypted tunnel towards CAPsMAN, CAPsMAN has to do it as well, additionally CAPsMAN has to bridge/switch all the traffic, even traffic which is targeting LAN hosts).
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Mar 13, 2023 9:28 am

Wifiwave2 capsman only supports local forwarding.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:23 pm

Just got ax3 couple of days before and having very poor wifi performance. Sitting next to router(~100cm), 5G band shows -60dBM, and 2.4G band shows -30dBM. And ISP router too measures -30 dBM in 5G band. My laptop having intel 210(Precision 7560) sitting about 10ft with one concrete wall having very poor performance. Laptop achieves > 100Mbps in speedtest.net results consistently in 2.4G/AX mode, but in 5G/AX it gives around 60Mbps. ISP router's 5G/AC gives more than 200Mbps. My internet speed is 500 Mbps symmetrical. My country is set to India and when i tried setting to US, 5G band given above 100 Mbps, but still far less than AC router given by ISP.
I'm new to mikrotik, so far using the default settings, have raised support too. All the configuration done in wifiwave2.

Terminal output for command /interface/wifiwave2/monitor shows tx power 18 for 5G and 16 for 2.4G.
Is there anyway to enhance the range and speed in 5G AX?
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:58 pm

try 80Mhz
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:01 pm

ISP router too measures -30 dBM in 5G band.
-30 dBm That is strong, very strong! Might overload your receivers. Move away from the ISP router or reduce it's power.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:14 pm

I turned on rstp, but not sure where you disable hardware offloading. Any clues?
I found two places that look relevant. In the switch settings, uncheck the box that says, "Switch all ports". Then for each bridge port (I have all ports in the bridge), uncheck the box that says, "Hardware offload".
Earlier in this thread are my posts regarding the poor performance I experienced. My solution was to turn off hardware offloading for the port connected to your router and turn on rstp. Give it a try and let us know if it helped.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:32 am

try 80Mhz
Its already set to 20/40/80(same in ISP router too), there is no option of setting 80 alone.
-30 dBm That is strong, very strong!
Agree, its kept in adjacent room which is 10-12ft away and planning to replace with this ax3. -30dB is just with in 50-60cm distance from the router. In fact ax3 too has similar intensity for 2.4G band in that distance. Poor performance measured only for 5G band.
In the switch settings, uncheck the box that says, "Switch all ports". Then for each bridge port (I have all ports in the bridge), uncheck the box that says, "Hardware offload".
My solution was to turn off hardware offloading for the port connected to your router and turn on rstp.
In my case, 'Switch all ports' was already unchecked and rstp protocol was selected too. I cannot find 'Hardware offload' option anywhere and terminal too does not support l3-hw-offloading commands. Not sure, whether these options were removed in 7.8?

What im confused is, why 2.4G AX gives me > 100Mbps speed, but 5G AX gives only 60M just sitting 10ft away from the router :(
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:18 pm

I turned off hardware offload individually for each of the 5 ax3 bridge ports. I had bridged all the ports. I just noticed that my wireless interface has it turned on, but it was dynamically added to the bridge, and I do not see a way to turn it off.

While I was troubleshooting the performance issue, I discovered it was not really a wireless issue. I used btest to test the ethernet speed between the ax3 and the router. Running a btest server on one and a btest client on the other and then running a send test followed by a recieve test, I observed an order of magnitude difference between the sending and receiving speeds. The slower speed was what I was seeing from wifi. Turning off hardware offload on all the bridge ports made the speeds equal and the faster of the two. You might try doing a similar btest briefly since btest will bog down the router. If you see that order of magnitude difference then it is probably not a wifi issue, rather an ethernet issue.

I think you said your router was an ISP router so you might not be able to run btest on it. If so, then maybe you can test from something connected to the ax3 via a cable to something not connected to the ax3, thus passing through the ax3-router connection. I have 8 Mikrotik access points, all connected to the router, so I was able to use one of them for the btest. I also used btest.exe on a Windows machine but for some reason, I was only able to run a btest server on the Windows machine. The Windows machine would never connect to a btest server on the LAN. My Windows machine is wired to the ax3 so I was able to test to the MT router and other access points.

BTW, I am running 7.8 too.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:47 pm

I got ~900 Mb/s over wifi:
ROS 7.8
skip-dfs-channels=10min-cac
width=20/40/80mhz
country=empty (or usa) - (at other settings the speed is 30% slower)
frequency=auto (or 5745)
tx-power can be reduced to 20, because the default is 27dBm
maximum speed was obtained in unii-3,

and different bands have different output power (https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/pages/vi ... =150601820)

hap ax3 should support unii-4, but it does not.
photo_2023-03-20_16-46-48.jpg
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holvoetn
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:04 pm

hap ax3 should support unii-4, but it does not.
Yup, noticed it as well.
viewtopic.php?p=990865#p990682

I already created a support ticket.
SUP-111009
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Mar 20, 2023 10:31 pm

I got ~900 Mb/s over wifi:
ROS 7.8
skip-dfs-channels=10min-cac
width=20/40/80mhz
Any tests with 80+80 MHz bandwidth? (80MHz primary, 80 MHz secondary bandwidth)

As documented in wifiwave2: "frequency" in XXXX notation (C channel center freq), and "secondary frequency" with 80MHz center freq notation
In classic WLAN driver this should be the parameters labeled "frequency" and "secondary channel"
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Mar 20, 2023 11:10 pm

Any tests with 80+80 MHz bandwidth? (80MHz primary, 80 MHz secondary bandwidth)
there is only one option here
photo_2023-03-20_23-10-44.jpg
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Tue Mar 21, 2023 12:32 am

AX2 and AX3 has maximum 80Mhz.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:06 am

If you select 20/40/80MHz, only then the secondary frequency field will appear in Winbox.
Then you can enter secondary frequency for another 80MHz bandwith, eg work with 80+80MHz bandwidth operation in 802.11ac and ax.

It is called Secondary Channel in the WLAN classic setup.

Klembord-2.jpg
viewtopic.php?t=193805#p987667
The primary channel seems to be "dynamic bandwidth" , one C channel (20MHz wide) , plus 1 or 3 adjacent e-channel extensions
The secondary channel is usually in another range, as the 80 MHz wide channel is used (and here indicated by the 80 MHz center frequency)
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:58 am

Hoping you get your MT wifi6 soon bpwl, cannot wait for the 'blessed' configuration that works!!
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Tue Mar 21, 2023 5:56 am

If you select 20/40/80MHz, only then the secondary frequency field will appear in Winbox.
Then you can enter secondary frequency for another 80MHz bandwith, eg work with 80+80MHz bandwidth operation in 802.11ac and ax.

It is called Secondary Channel in the WLAN classic setup.


Klembord-2.jpg

viewtopic.php?t=193805#p987667
The primary channel seems to be "dynamic bandwidth" , one C channel (20MHz wide) , plus 1 or 3 adjacent e-channel extensions
The secondary channel is usually in another range, as the 80 MHz wide channel is used (and here indicated by the 80 MHz center frequency)
so which secondary channel should i choose? what happens if you leave it empty?
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:03 am

AX2 and AX3 has maximum 80Mhz.
.
there is only one option here
photo_2023-03-20_23-10-44.jpg
.

Strange. I see something else.
2023-03-21_05-10-37.jpg

But it does give me "unsupported channels" when trying to use it.
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:15 am

AX2 and AX3 has maximum 80Mhz.
.
there is only one option here
photo_2023-03-20_23-10-44.jpg
.

Strange. I see something else.
2023-03-21_05-10-37.jpg


But it does give me "unsupported channels" when trying to use it.
it's in the profiles, but it doesn't work
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:18 am

Hi,

[moderator removed abusing part] did you checked HW info before buying this device? Im teling you AX2 and AX3 has maximum 80 Mhz.Yes, there is option 80+80 but it is for the future HW.
Last edited by BartoszP on Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: moderation of abuse
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:09 am

No need to be rude.

In all seriousness...
Seems you are correct though.
IPQ6010 does not support more then 80MHz.
Just checked on AC3 ( same wifiwave2 package), same options are there as well (160 and 80+80).
Pretty misleading to offer options which are not supported by underlying HW.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:36 am

hap ax3 should support unii-4, but it does not.
Yup, noticed it as well.
viewtopic.php?p=990865#p990682

I already created a support ticket.
SUP-111009
Response received.
Regardless what the release notes state, currently ONLY supported on AX2 (because of internal antenna restriction).
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:41 am

Here's what support told me
UNII-4 is supported only for boards that have inner antennas, for now, it's only hAP ax2 sorry for the inconvenience caused.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:48 am

Just received an additional response: the wording of release notes is wrong.
It should be AX2 for US and Europe.
But AX3 / Chateau AX only for Europe is supported as well. (because of the FCC limitation on external antenna, they are excluded for US, I understand that)
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:54 am

so which secondary channel should i choose? what happens if you leave it empty?
What the DOCUMENTATION/HELP says about wifiwave2 ROS7:
Klembord-2.jpg
This is about the software , hardware limitations for specific models are not mentioned.

And indeed hAP ac³ has the same limitation in classic driver .... even with the correct value
Klembord-3.jpg
Same limitation on wAP ac , hAP ac², Omnitik AC, .... probably all MT devices. :-( :-( :-(
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:45 pm

I was able to turn on the 5865 channel on the hap ax3, but only on 20MHz and any European country, because the channels above are not available and 5885 does not turn on
I can also turn on channel 5845 only on 20/40MHz eC and 5825 on 20/40MHz Ce respectively

Channels 5865 and 5885 are hardware disabled due to external antennas so 20/40/80MHz can't be turned on with 5825 and above
Last edited by Grant on Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:52 pm

Just received an additional response: the wording of release notes is wrong.
It should be AX2 for US and Europe.
But AX3 / Chateau AX only for Europe is supported as well. (because of the FCC limitation on external antenna, they are excluded for US, I understand that)
What If I choose some backwards european country like Belgium for my country on the AX3?? or is the limitation in hardware (where sold).
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Tue Mar 21, 2023 5:06 pm

Hoping you get your MT wifi6 soon bpwl, cannot wait for the 'blessed' configuration that works!!
Well still reading here, and hoping MT wifi6 gets to a good operational level first, with wifi6 features, before investing in that hardware.
Well not having 4-address mode, even lacking WDS AFAIK, and now even 80+80 or 160MHz still missing, is QBSS already in the beacon? band steering? and what about BSS coloring?
Many MT good features are poorly documented and stay unused, and some documented cannot be used.
(80+80 was in the release notes in 2017 (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=121883&p=626033#p625962) , usable now in RB4011 and Audience??? Any other ? viewtopic.php?t=109764#p672207
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Tue Mar 21, 2023 5:08 pm

What If I choose some backwards european country like Belgium for my country on the AX3?? or is the limitation in hardware (where sold).
It could be HW locked so impossible to do.
Regardless, it is most likely illegal where you live :lol:

In all seriousness, in some countries there are really HEAVY fines for circumventing those limitations.
So proceed carefully if you want to explore that option ...
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Wed Mar 22, 2023 1:03 pm

And here is my practice after the updates:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OvOir0 ... sp=sharing
As you can see in the speedtest.net graph, the download speed is not only low, but unstable, compared to v7.6.

v7.6 and v7.8 settings:
default-name="wifi1" name="wifi1" mac-address=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx arp-timeout=auto radio-mac=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx
        configuration.mode=ap .ssid="EE-Wifi-5G" .country=Lithuania 
        security.authentication-types=wpa2-psk,wpa3-psk .passphrase="PASSOWRD" 
        channel.band=5ghz-ax .width=20/40/80mhz .skip-dfs-channels=10min-cac
with v7.6
channel: 5640/ax/eeeC
tx-power: 28
with v7.8
channel: 5680/ax/eCee
tx-power: 23
When set no Country, get 5745/ax/Ceee channel
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Wed Mar 22, 2023 3:36 pm

When set no Country, get 5745/ax/Ceee channel
no Country=USA and 27dBm or 28dBm, 5745 because it is limited DFS

How to find out the current signal strength in wifi?
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:13 pm

how do you know that no country is USA?
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:33 pm

When set no Country, get 5745/ax/Ceee channel
no Country=USA and 27dBm or 28dBm, 5745 because it is limited DFS

How to find out the current signal strength in wifi?
I use the command: /interface/wifiwave2/monitor 0
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:24 pm

how do you know that no country is USA?
because this is the default value and it is written in the documentation
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:07 am

I also seem to be having issues achieving above 300 Mbps download from my ax3. I've confirmed it with both an ax-capable Dell laptop and Pixel 6 Pro phone to an LibreSpeed HTML5 speedtest server on my LAN and also doing a local file copy from a NAS, both connected to the same CRS328 switch. TCP btests between my RB5009 and hAP ax3 reach over 900 Mbps.

Going by this thread, I've tried disabling hardware offloading on the bridge ports, enabling/disabling flow control, and trying one of the 1G ports after removing the 2.5G port from the bridge with no increase above 300 Mbps. The TX and RX rates in the registration tab show 900-1000 Mbps with the phone and laptop.


/interface wifiwave2 channel
add disabled=no frequency=2412,2437,2462 name=ch-2ghz width=20mhz
add disabled=no frequency=5725-5850,5180-5240 name=ch-5ghz width=20/40/80mhz
/interface wifiwave2 security
add authentication-types=wpa2-psk,wpa3-psk disabled=no management-protection=\
    allowed name=sec1 wps=disable
/interface wifiwave2 configuration
add country=Canada disabled=no name="SSID" security=sec1 ssid=\
    "SSID"
/interface wifiwave2
set [ find default-name=wifi2 ] channel=ch-2ghz configuration="SSID" \
    configuration.mode=ap datapath.vlan-id=100 disabled=no name=wifi-2ghz \
    security=sec1
set [ find default-name=wifi1 ] channel=ch-5ghz configuration="SSID" \
    configuration.chains=0,1 .mode=ap .tx-chains=0,1 datapath.vlan-id=100 \
    disabled=no name=wifi-5ghz security=sec1
    
  
  admin@Hallway AX3 AP] > /interface/wifiwave2/monitor wifi-5ghz 
               state: running
             channel: 5805/ax/eeeC
    registered-peers: 7
    authorized-peers: 7
            tx-power: 28
  available-channels: 5180/ax/Ceee,5200/ax/eCee,5220/ax/eeCe,5240/ax/eeeC,
                      5745/ax/Ceee,5765/ax/eCee,5785/ax/eeCe,5805/ax/eeeC,
                      5180/ac/Ceee,5200/ac/eCee,5220/ac/eeCe,5240/ac/eeeC,
                      5745/ac/Ceee,5765/ac/eCee,5785/ac/eeCe,5805/ac/eeeC
 
 
TomSF
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:52 am

Your configuration looks pretty close to mine. I didn't specify any frequencies, chains or vlan-id though. When I run monitor, I do not see the available channels listed, as your output shows. I have seen weirdness testing with my android phone. At times, usually after turning off wireguard, a speedtest will get something like 40 Mbs. If I turn off wifi and then turn it back on again, causing it to reassociate with the ax3, the speedtest will get 551 Mbs. I have no idea why, but I think it is a phone issue, not an ax3 issue. I did a test with librespeed.org and got nowhere near the numbers I got with speedtest. I only used btest to test on my lan. What do you see if you run btest between the RB5009 and the ax3? Do a send, and then a receive. It doesn't matter which is the server or client. Are the send and receive speeds close to each other?
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:36 pm

Your configuration looks pretty close to mine. I didn't specify any frequencies, chains or vlan-id though. When I run monitor, I do not see the available channels listed, as your output shows. I have seen weirdness testing with my android phone. At times, usually after turning off wireguard, a speedtest will get something like 40 Mbs. If I turn off wifi and then turn it back on again, causing it to reassociate with the ax3, the speedtest will get 551 Mbs. I have no idea why, but I think it is a phone issue, not an ax3 issue. I did a test with librespeed.org and got nowhere near the numbers I got with speedtest. I only used btest to test on my lan. What do you see if you run btest between the RB5009 and the ax3? Do a send, and then a receive. It doesn't matter which is the server or client. Are the send and receive speeds close to each other?
My Librespeed tests aren't run using their website, I'm using a locally-hosted version on my home LAN. It makes it convenient to test both on my phone and other devices and get somewhat comparable results.

Doing a TCP btest from the RB5009 to the ax3 (RB5009 -> CRS328-24P-4S+RM -> ax3) gets 930 Mbps in each direction. Doing a TCP btest to the laptop gets a new high score of about 400 Mbps, though file copies from my NAS and Librespeed tests get about the same 250-300 Mbps as I get from the phone, while tests run while connected to the same switch as the ax3 show full gigabit file copy and Librespeed tests.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:21 pm

v7.8 [stable] is released: viewtopic.php?t=193986
- Update:
- still the same issue - ~100Mbits/sec TCP download on client / 780 Mbits/sec upload
- UDP is fine
v7.9beta [testing] is released: viewtopic.php?t=194781
- Update:
- still the same issue - ~100Mbits/sec TCP download on client / 780 Mbits/sec upload
- UDP is fine
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:17 pm

@theprojectgroup
Using automatic frequency?
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Apr 02, 2023 8:11 pm

No, it was:
name="ch-5ghz-march" frequency=5180,5260,5500 width=20/40/80mhz skip-dfs-channels=all
I just tested with fully auto. Does it mean to leave everything empty? Seems to work but TCP is still very slow!
Other none AX devices like 802.11ac don't show this behaviour...
name="ch-5ghz-april"
CleanShot 2023-04-02 at 19.07.15@2x.png
CleanShot 2023-04-02 at 19.07.39@2x.png
iperf3 -c 192.168.99.11 -t10  -i1 -P1 -u -b 1G -R

Is the WiFi interface somehow hardware offloaded or why do I not see the traffic on the bridge?

CleanShot 2023-04-02 at 19.05.09@2x.png
iperf3 -c 192.168.99.11 -t10  -i1 -P1  -R
CleanShot 2023-04-02 at 19.09.53@2x.png
CleanShot 2023-04-02 at 19.17.08@2x.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
 
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mkx
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Apr 03, 2023 3:14 pm

About different personalities of bridge. Interface stats are about bridge interface, which is not on the way between bridge ports (either wired or wireless, doesn't matter).

Regarding throughput results: the UDP test shows that wireless was able to transfer data at around 900Mbps (one has to observe the receiver side stats). It's TCP that struggles. And TCP has its own quirks, and when wireless is involved (can be broadband, e.g. 4G, as well), it's delay jitter which kills its performance. You might get much better overall performance figures if running iperf3 with multiple parallel streams ("-P 8" or something).

Sad thing, which most wireless zealots fail to acknowledge, is that wireless, even if technically it provides high throughput, will never be as good as wired (when promising same throughput) due to systematically longer delay, larger delay jitter and susceptibility to external interference. Add also duplex delay/issues if Rx and Tx use same frequency channel (which is the case with WiFi).
Wireless will never be as good as wires.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Apr 03, 2023 3:37 pm

So how do you propose to string that comm line to the moon??
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Apr 03, 2023 3:40 pm

Correct observations.
All too often when toying with setups, I notice iperf3 tests using TCP are quite a bit lower then when using UDP (albeit some minor packet loss can be observed, which does usually not happen with TCP).
Multiple streams also helps (I already have -P 10 embedded in my muscle memory :lol: )
Wireless will never be as good as wires.
Let's repeat that once more.
Last edited by holvoetn on Mon Apr 03, 2023 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
holvoetn
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Apr 03, 2023 3:41 pm

So how do you propose to string that comm line to the moon??
And what do you think will happen over time ?
Earth rotates, that string will pull the moon closer !!

:lol:
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Apr 03, 2023 5:59 pm

So how do you propose to string that comm line to the moon??

I'll tell you ... right after you throw to me that TPL EAP660 you keep bragging about :wink:
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Apr 03, 2023 7:14 pm

So how do you propose to string that comm line to the moon??
No need for wired tech … NASA plus many MANY others rely very heavily on wireless. Once WiFi 7 becomes mainstream the wired world will become obsolete… 98% of my current business clients use wireless exclusively …. Many ISP will be transitioning to Wireless Internet in the not to distant future :-D :-D
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:23 pm

So how do you propose to string that comm line to the moon??
No need for wired tech …
Are you aware of the fact it's not 1st of April any more?
 
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mkx
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:35 pm

Just to make clear what I meant with

Wireless will never be as good as wires.

Or rather what I didn't mean. I never said that wireless is not useful. Wireless has its places and in some use cases wireless is the only option. However, whenever wires are viable option (and I mean physically, not financially), they are always better than wireless. And no wireless generation will change that ...
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Apr 03, 2023 10:13 pm

No need for wired tech … NASA plus many MANY others rely very heavily on wireless. Once WiFi 7 becomes mainstream the wired world will become obsolete… 98% of my current business clients use wireless exclusively …. Many ISP will be transitioning to Wireless Internet in the not to distant future :-D :-D
In Canada it will be very different from densely populated countries (of course Canada has some densely populated areas as well).
E.g. systems like Starlink work fine in "rural areas" but they fail miserably here in Western Europe.
4G/5G is a little better due to the small cells, but still it cannot achieve the sort of bandwidth that cables and fiber can achieve, and that is required when you have 1000 inhabitants/km2 as we have here. (and 5 times more in cities)
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Apr 03, 2023 10:48 pm

Just to make clear what I meant with

Wireless will never be as good as wires.

Or rather what I didn't mean. I never said that wireless is not useful. Wireless has its places and in some use cases wireless is the only option. However, whenever wires are viable option (and I mean physically, not financially), they are always better than wireless. And no wireless generation will change that ...
And that was exactly my point as well.
I get it people want wireless.
But when you want true reliable connection, wired is the only way.
Don't get me started on printer problems with wireless connections....
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Apr 03, 2023 11:59 pm

You might get much better overall performance figures if running iperf3 with multiple parallel streams ("-P 8" or something).
Your absolutely right and I often see higher rates when using parallel streams. But in my environment.
With a single stream I can saturate my 300Mbit WAN line but not in LAN:
CleanShot 2023-04-03 at 22.55.31@2x.png
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Tue Apr 04, 2023 8:10 pm

I've seen my share of weird behaviour of TCP in my life (and with UDP for that mattter). As I said, it has it's quirks, they have to do with acknowledging of received packets, window size, lost packets, delay jitter, retransmissions. Sometimes it behaves in a completely unexpected way. And deserves an extensive study if one wants to truly understand it (it's way beyond the scope of this forum and beyond my ability to explain ... and there are details which get me from time to time).
It wouldn't surprise me if you'd see occasional droped packet (or rather a NACK requesting retransmission) in your local-server case due to some buffering issues if you'd run wireshark on iperf3 receiving side ... and retransmissions really kill TCP performance. OTOH, when running UDP test, can you get rid of lost packets if you reduce UDP Tx rate below 915Mbps (which seems to be throughput limit)? If there still are some drops, then this may indicate an unreliable link.

But, if we return to the subject of this thread: lower layers (wireless in this case) don't care about higher layers. If it's possible to achieve good speeds using one protocol (e.g. UDP) without (too many) lost packets and with decently low delay jitter, then this means that that link performs fine. If another higher layer protocol (e.g. TCP) works poorly, then it's up to interactions between properties of lower layers (e.g. wireless with its delay and delay jitter) and higher layers (e.g. TCP with its ack, retransmission and window size algorithms) which can mess with performance. E.g. if wireless device on receiver's side buffers packets too much (wanting to aggressively aggregate return traffic which in principle is a good thing but only if done sensibly), it can delay ack packets and thus delay further transmissions from traffic sender which means lower throughput.

Yes, sometimes slight variations in lower layers (e.g. change of WiFi AP with another model / different generation, change of station hardware) can make huge change ... and we, network admins, hate such cases.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Tue Apr 04, 2023 10:05 pm

... indeed we might have a complex interaction between TCP congestion avoidance and wifi delivery(including retransmit) methods.

There are many TCP congestion avoidance algoritms, ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP_congestion_control ) they act at the end-points (that is normally not the AP, so not the Mikrotik device or setting). But performance test results, seldom (or never) document the TCP congestion avoidance algoritm used. This could be more important than the 802.11 ac/ax settings, Anyway, just because of the signals around and the wifi connection characteristic (and it's variations). It is almost impossible to predict any performance for TCP over uplink + wifi combinations. https://witestlab.poly.edu/blog/tcp-con ... -networks/
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Apr 07, 2023 12:17 pm

iperf3 tests using TCP are quite a bit lower then when using UDP (albeit some minor packet loss can be observed, which does usually not happen with TCP).
iperf3 does not report [or, possibly even know about] packet loss in TCP mode. It will make itself known in the retransmits value for that segment. I assume the OS networking stack handles the retransmits, if any are required, due to packet loss.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Apr 07, 2023 12:24 pm

Correct. TCP normally handles the retransmit.
But in some conditions even TCP can not proceed, so packet loss with TCP is not impossible. I only indicated it usually does not happen.

And yes, with UDP the iperf3 tool will clearly indicate the packet loss, which it does not do for TCP.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Apr 07, 2023 12:39 pm

WiFi itself is doing retransmits (unless in multicast mode). When you notice retransmits at TCP level you either have a very bad WiFi link (that loses a packet after like 7 retransmits, it is a setting in the interface) or an overly eager TCP that retransmits when it sees a slightly above normal delay.
(it can be that the WiFi layer is still retransmitting and then TCP adds another retransmit on top. that can lead to a total collapse of the link. a decent TCP would not do that)
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:42 pm

You might get much better overall performance figures if running iperf3 with multiple parallel streams ("-P 8" or something).
Your absolutely right and I often see higher rates when using parallel streams. But in my environment.
With a single stream I can saturate my 300Mbit WAN line but not in LAN:
CleanShot 2023-04-03 at 22.55.31@2x.png
I can see similar results on my ax3. It is strange. On my previous ax3 (it was replaced) on 7.6 and 7.7 it was better.
Now it acts strange.
What is your sw version, and what is your
interface/detect-internet/print
I've noticed it acts differently on 7.8

Also, the radio acts differently. Today I noticed a message that ax3 decided to pick up a channel from outside of my configured list... interesting action.

changed intended channel to 5640/ax/eeeC

while the config is:
name="ch-5ghz-ext" frequency=5500,5580,5660,5745,5825,5910 width=20/40/80mhz skip-dfs-channels=10min-cac 
Good thing: it performs better on this auto-selected channel
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:46 pm

Is frequency of control channel.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:37 pm

PeterXC
interface/detect-internet/print
    detect-interface-list: none
       lan-interface-list: none
       wan-interface-list: none
  internet-interface-list: none
  
   installed-version: 7.9rc2
  
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Apr 28, 2023 1:39 pm

I decide to replace my good old Hap AC, which has been running for maybe more than four years without any issues. I remember we had problems with different versions back then, but it was for a short time. Now I got the Hap AX3 with large antennas, and I cannot even get a stable AX connection in the other room, which is ridiculous. From my iPhone 13 Pro max, I connect to AX 3 wifi, and 2 meters away, I can see 4 bars instead of 5. Both devices are in the same room, ~2 meters away. It's ridiculous.

I tried different countries, that is why you see "Italy" and "Bulgaria" tried other channels. It does not look good no matter what I'm doing. I have 1GBps WAN and over wifi, i get 300MBps.
Can someone recommend documentation what are the good practices for wifiwave2?

I plan to use 2 x CAP AX devices in my newly built house, but if that is what I'm getting, i will consider other hardware even though i know it's a temporary software fix that we need to way.
MikroTik] /interface/wifiwave2> /system/resource/print
                   uptime: 2h57m16s
                  version: 7.8 (stable)
               build-time: Feb/24/2023 09:03:00
         factory-software: 7.5
              free-memory: 607.4MiB
             total-memory: 928.0MiB
                      CPU: ARM64
                cpu-count: 4
            cpu-frequency: 864MHz
                 cpu-load: 0%
           free-hdd-space: 93.6MiB
          total-hdd-space: 128.5MiB
  write-sect-since-reboot: 10556
         write-sect-total: 23516
               bad-blocks: 0%
        architecture-name: arm64
               board-name: hAP ax^3
                 platform: MikroTik

[XXXXXXX@MikroTik] /interface/wifiwave2> print detail
Flags: M - master; D - dynamic; B - bound; X - disabled, I - inactive, R - running
 0 M BR default-name="wifi1" name="g1r5-ax" mac-address=48:A9:XXXXXXXXXXarp-timeout=auto radio-mac=48:A9:XXXXXX
        configuration.mode=ap .ssid="g1r5-ax" .country=Italy
        security.authentication-types=wpa3-psk .passphrase="XXXXXX"
        channel.band=5ghz-ax .width=20/40/80mhz .skip-dfs-channels=all

 1 M BR default-name="wifi2" name="g1r5-n" mac-address=48:A9:XXXXX:XXXX arp-timeout=auto radio-mac=48:A9:8A:XXXXXXX
        configuration.mode=ap .ssid="g1r5-n" .country=Bulgaria
        security.authentication-types=wpa2-psk .passphrase="XXXXXXXX"
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Apr 28, 2023 1:53 pm

Try USA country for both, and cross channels 0,1...try to use wpa3-psk and wpa2-psk, for wif2 try to set channel.band....
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Apr 28, 2023 2:57 pm

"Country=Italy" (or any European country with ETSI regulation) and "skip DFS channels= all", eliminates most of the 5 GHz channels (the stronger ones)
And 80 MHz wide ... then there is only just one (1) 80 MHz channel possible without DFS. The 80MHz channel made from channel 36-40-44-48 / Indoors only, may not be used outdoors.

Setting another region? If channels are different for the actual region, then client devices may not detect them.

DFS= "skip 10_min_CAC" is a more reasonable option. DFS swaps (and blackouts) on start or change or "radar detected" then are just 1 minute, not 10 minutes as for those 10-min weather channels
A weather radar of multiple kW, 100's of km away, takes 10 minutes for one rotation.

The large big ears (antenna) on a hAP ac3 or ax3 , do NOT delivering a stronger signal, than devices with built in antenna. Legal regulation reduces the radio power to compensate the antenna gain.
The AP has a better reception of client devices, due to the antenna gain.
Those long antennae are not omnidirectional. Signal is on its strongest perpendicular on the antenna. But that stronger here is still only as per ETSI regulation.
Last edited by bpwl on Sat Apr 29, 2023 1:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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mkx
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Apr 28, 2023 10:26 pm

A weather radar of multiple kW, 100's of km away, takes 10 minutes for one rotation.

The above is not correctly worded.

Weather radars have pretty narrow beam width (typically 1°) and perform "volume scan" so that they start with lowest elevation (normally around 0° or horizontal, depends on microlocation) and then they increase elevation (usually by 2°) every rotation. They go up to elevation of around 75° (zenith is not really that intetesting and it takes relatively long time to get small amount of additional information).
The whole "volume scan", which takes around 30-35 rotations, is usually done in around 5 minutes (give or take, radars need around 10 seconds for one rotation) and many radars were then idle until start of next 10-minute interval. Nowadays many weather radars are a bit faster and take "volume scan" in a bit less than 5 minutes, so they start new "volume scan" every 5 minutes.

Since weather radars are often positioned on some elevations (either hill tops or high towers or both), it is most often that radar detection (the real one) is triggered when radar scans low over horizon (at the beginning of "volume scan"). As traditionally many radars did "volume scans" every 10 minutes, this then mandates 10-minute-CAC ...
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:20 am

Thanks MKX for the detailed information.
My knowledge in this is just some very very limited practical things. .... a 10 minutes check needed due to the long scan cycle.
And our whole country is covered by 4 powerfull radars. The devastating effect of non-compliant wifi equipment , is regularly seen on our national television.

https://www.wirelessinfo.be/wifi-wetgeving/
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Mon May 01, 2023 3:04 pm

Hi, I'm experiencing quite frequent disconnections from the Wi-Fi network especially iOS devices (Wi-Fi 6). According to the log, the reason for disconnection is loss of connection. This happens mainly when the devices have their display turned off and are not in use. This shouldn't be normal behavior, right?

Any ideas on how to solve this problem? I'm using the default config for Wi-Fi and only changed the region to Czech Republic. I use the same ssid for 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz network.

Running 7.9 rc5
Last edited by pkoci on Mon May 01, 2023 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri May 05, 2023 12:08 pm

Just for giggles (and because I can ...)

No decent wifi devices in my control for testing properly (laptop has 2x2 wifi5 AC adapter, Samsung S20 is considered too old, ...)
So got me a TP Link TX20UPlus USB Wifi adapter to plug into laptop.
Internal Iperf goes between 800-850Mb using Wifi6 and WPA3 (multiple runs done).

Nothing special done on settings of AX3 bar setting correct country, choosing a clear channel and setting SSID and security.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri May 05, 2023 12:34 pm

This happens mainly when the devices have their display turned off and are not in use. This shouldn't be normal behavior, right?
It is normal behaviour for a device to disconnect from wifi after inactivity - it is a power saving feature. You want to change that behaviour ? ...stop your device from sleeping but then don't complain your battery is being discharged quickly.

Not a router related issue unless it happens while using the device.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri May 05, 2023 12:39 pm

Internal Iperf goes between 800-850Mb using Wifi6 and WPA3 (multiple runs done).

Nothing special done on settings of AX3 bar setting correct country, choosing a clear channel and setting SSID and security.
While sitting on top of router ? ...see how quickly that speed changes as you move away.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri May 05, 2023 12:43 pm

Will check later today.
ALSO replaced battery in my laptop (almost 4 years, 30 minutes max autonomy)
New battery was completely empty when I put it in (?!?!) so it needs a bit of juice first before I can unplug and start walking around :lol:
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri May 05, 2023 1:05 pm

Internal Iperf goes between 800-850Mb using Wifi6 and WPA3 (multiple runs done).

Nothing special done on settings of AX3 bar setting correct country, choosing a clear channel and setting SSID and security.
While sitting on top of router ? ...see how quickly that speed changes as you move away.
I just unpacked new hap ax2 at office for customer and same, speed is okish near router, getting 750mbit speedtest on my s23 ultra, but then i move outside, single wall and it drops to 30mbit.(5ghz)
On very same spot and distance(ap and phone) i get 300mbit with ARUBA WIFI6 AP, thats freaking 10x times difference..
 
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mkx
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri May 05, 2023 3:58 pm

... but then i move outside, single wall and it drops to 30mbit.(5ghz)
On very same spot and distance(ap and phone) i get 300mbit with ARUBA WIFI6 AP, thats freaking 10x times difference..

When comparing ax2 and Aruba, it'd be nice to see the signal strength, measured by client (phone) ... is it similar from both APs or is Aruba's signal stronger? I've got a feeling that MT is lately very strict at adhering to country regulations and that means pretty much worse signal strength from MT APs.

Another thing to consider is Tx power envelope (i.e. power backoff) of different APs. Mikrotik's hAP ax models (both ax2 and ax3) are pretty bad at it, Tx power for slowest MCS (which is normally carrying beacons and thus defining wireless cell range) is (for 5GHz radio) 7dB higher than for fastest MCS (which provides high throughput from AP towards clients). Some (higher priced) APs might feature lower power backoff and hence perform better at wireless cell edge.
The other thing to consider is Rx sensitivity, which features even higher "backoff": difference in sensitivity between slow MCS and fast MCS is almost 30dB which means that uplink (traffic from station towards AP) will drop near wireless cell edge even more.
If also station suffers from similar backoffs (both Tx and Rx), then things are bound to go south with increasing signal path loss (e.g. behind a concrete wall).

BTW, Audience fares similarly to both ax-es when one considers ac-class of radio (i.e. difference between MCS 0 and MCS 9).
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat May 06, 2023 6:22 pm

Internal Iperf goes between 800-850Mb using Wifi6 and WPA3 (multiple runs done).

Nothing special done on settings of AX3 bar setting correct country, choosing a clear channel and setting SSID and security.
While sitting on top of router ? ...see how quickly that speed changes as you move away.
Moved laptop and TX20U to bedroom, half a floor up which means diagonal through an almost 25cm brick wall in between (that's 10" for imperialists :lol: )

[SUM]   0.00-10.00  sec   632 MBytes   530 Mbits/sec                  sender
[SUM]   0.00-10.00  sec   631 MBytes   530 Mbits/sec                  receiver

I'd say that's pretty decent.

Once again (and I checked on purpose): I do NOT have any interference from other APs being in that room.
Channel planning is of utmost importance if you want as much speed as possible.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat May 06, 2023 7:03 pm

20MHz channel is good for coverage.

What country regulations limit is effective radiated power per device. Effective means it takes into account antenna gain so high antenna gain on transmitter will not present as higher signal strength[*]. Per device means that it'll sum over all transmit antennae and using many antennae (e.g. 4x4 MIMO or higher) will present as lower signal strength[**]. It will also mean that it will sum power per whole channel width. With wider channels power is dispersed more and signal strength will again be lower. So for best coverage use 1-chain AP with 20MHz channel width.


[*] higher gain antenna does help to improve reception. Remember that obtainable throughput is related to SINR of receiver. Signal in receiver is sum of transmitter power (power amplifier), transmitter antenna gain, path loss and receiver antenna gain. Sum of first two is more or less EIRP and thus limited by country regulation, path loss is property of physical space between transmitter and receiver and receiver antenna gain is something that can be improved on certain devices. Higher gain antenna, by being directional (more or less), can also help to reduce noise part of SINR, but amount of reduction highly depends on overall situation around receiver.
When using higher gain antenna on AP downlink doesn't change much (if at all): coverage is the same, service is the same (or slightly better; power amplifiers in low cost WiFi APs have "power backoff" meaning that when transmitting higher MCS/VHT, the power capability is lower. If country regulations limit Tx power lower than PA capability, then real power backoff happens at higher VHT or even doesn't happen). However higher gain antenna helps in uplink, upload will be better because AP "hears better". In case of PtP links, using higher fain antennae on both ends help improve both directions.
The power backoff explains why maximum throughput can be same on two APs with different signal strengths, specially if Tx power is set for maximum coverage area.


[**] using 4x4 (and higher order) MIMO offers some features which give better service outside best area of AP coverage (beam forming, space diversity). However, beacons are transmitted without using those tricks because they are intended also towards "about to register" clients (which are thus not yet known to AP) and towards dormant clients (which might have moved relatively to AP's location but without gaving active two-way connection AP can not determine direction towards such client). So improvement is only seen during actual data transfers allowing for higher datarates at the same (marginal) signal strength.
The same applies to broadcast/multicast traffic if multicast helper is not enabled.
I don't want to hijack the thread but can someone please tell me how to set TX power up to the max (for all TX chains) possible by the card? I have a MT setup on a VERY remote place with nothing around, below or above me for many miles. I'd really appreciate it if I can get every ounce of "coverage", although the RX sensitivity of the Wi-Fi is whole other story. Many thanks in advance!
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat May 06, 2023 7:12 pm

Leave the field unselected. That's maximum.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat May 06, 2023 8:07 pm

Leave the field unselected. That's maximum.
Aight! And what about country (regulatory domain) and installation type? How should I set those for max TX power on all chains, assuming protocol type 802.11 and only 20MHz channel width?
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat May 06, 2023 8:15 pm

Country should be based on your location.
Installation type should be outdoor but indoor gives more power, I think.
You can also set country to something else but can't help there what will give the most power.
Lower bands should allow most power. Stay away from radar detection frequencies and unii-3/4, low power.

For country and mode settings: your responsibility for not following local regulations.
There are countries where pretty heavy fines are in place if they get you.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat May 06, 2023 8:30 pm

Yes, sadly I'm well aware of the repercussions if I violate state regulations, yet in this case I'm willing to take the risk.

According to wiki, manual-txpower should give max, but no word on superchannel and no_country_set. I'm basically looking for the combination of these that will yield the max TX power.

Upgrading to high-gain antennae is also an option but I don't want to go there yet.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat May 06, 2023 10:58 pm

Can't help you. Illegal TX power setting can interfere with weather radars over 200 km away. Stay legal!
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun May 07, 2023 1:17 am

Can't help you. Illegal TX power setting can interfere with weather radars over 200 km away. Stay legal!
Yeah, thanks for the input. My question is still open, though, so any takers?

I've been scanning the airwaves for some time now as I have access to some fancy equipment and I'm seeing a PtP link that's reaching ~100W (!) in its main lobe! I never bothered to triangulate the stations (which shouldn't be hard at all with such a narrow antennae) even though the link is close to ground, but I'm pretty sure this power is not legal either. We're talking about 2437 which is well within ISM. BSSID is either intentionally scrambled or it's oversaturating my receiving front-end. So, that much for being legal...
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun May 07, 2023 1:29 pm

Depending on how your equipment determines the "~100W" part ... but: 100W is 50dBm and as you said, it's in main lobe. If Tx station uses high-gain antenna (e.g. a dish), with gains exceeding 20dBi (24dBi+ are pretty easy to achieve), this then means actual Tx power (output from Tx power amplifier) of much less than 30dBm (can be lower than 25dBm).

It is pretty easy to get at these figures with ROS device which allows connecting external antennae ... simply leave configured antenna gain at minimum possible value (it will be somewhere between 0dBi and 6dBi depending on device model) so calculation of allowed Tx power will consider (too low) antenna gain set.

Different countries have different maximum Tx powers allowed. You can go through /interface/wifiwave2/radio/print country=<country> number=0 to find a country with Tx power you are after (hint: Brazil has generally quite high numbers allowed). But then, device will never transmit at power higher than HW capabilities, those are documented on product page and/or product brochure and are different for different transport channel rates (lower power for higher rates).

@bpwl is probably talking about radars operating in 5GHz DFS channels (their operating frequencies were overlaid with UNII-2 band after all those radars already operated in that band for decades) and all of the restrictions for WiFi devices using same band are put forward with very good reasons.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun May 07, 2023 1:57 pm

@bpwl is probably talking about radars operating in 5GHz DFS channels
Yes indeed. That are the ones where the regulator might pay you a visit, to check and confiscate illegal equipment. Sanctions are not small in that case.

"Who is competent to carry out controls regarding the wifi legislation in Belgium?
If you do not comply with the Wi-Fi legislation, the B.I.P.T. is authorized to carry out checks and impose sanctions. These sanctions can be severe or you will first receive a warning. Then, if you don't take steps, you can be forced to take down your infrastructure and even be taken away."
even though the link is close to ground
Be aware of the fresnel-zone (diameter is frequency and distance dependent"
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun May 07, 2023 2:18 pm

Thanks, @mkx, for the input!

We derailed OP's thread a bit but I still think not that far off the topic.

@bpwl, the Fresnel gradient is somewhat visible on my measurements. It's some really narrow, high-gain antenna involved. Some napkin math reveal a really horrid story. Given there is nothing (that I know of) for 15mi in either direction, and assuming I'm measuring in the middle of the link i.e., highest possible free space propagation loss from both transmitters, the output power should be very high for a consumer-grade equipment. Regulator mandates 18dBm EIRP in the 2.4GHz Wi-Fi band, so no matter how I calculate it, we are still talking about some monstrosity.

Anyway, let's not spam the thread more. I'll play with the suggested settings in my MT and see the readings in the different scenarios. I'll also get my attenuation kit someday when I'm pass by the office and try and see what this mysterious link is all aboot.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun May 07, 2023 4:49 pm

It's some really narrow, high-gain antenna involved
I know this way of thinking. Made the same mistake before.
The Fresnel diameter does NOT depend on the narrow beam of a high gain antenna. It depends on the frequency and the distance.
https://www.everythingrf.com/rf-calcula ... calculator

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresnel_zone
"Although intuitively, clear line-of-sight between transmitter and receiver may seem to be all that is required for a strong antenna system, but because of the complex nature of radio waves, obstructions within the first Fresnel zone can cause significant weakness, even if those obstructions are not blocking the apparent line-of-sight signal path."

It doesn't feel that way: https://docs.arednmesh.org/en/3.22.1.0/ ... iming.html

What is it now ? See : https://community.ui.com/questions/Fres ... ff30e9fba0
":Clearly one of us is having a fundamental misunderstanding. My understanding is that the antenna beamwidth is irrelevant"
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Jul 13, 2023 9:08 am

Posted the following in the RouterOS 7.10.0 / 7.10.1 / 7.10.2 announcement discussion, thought it may benefit others that are having range problems with their hAP ax^3 routers:

I've been disappointed by the WiFi coverage of 4 new hAP ax^3 routers but enjoying CAPsMAN and WiFiwave2. I needed to turn off LTE on my phone to have it stay connected to the poor signal on the WiFi, in certain parts of the house (including bedroom), but I could stream and use everything perfectly (ie: 802.11ax works better than 802.11ac when signal is low).

I had set the country as South Africa and noticed that the radio transmit strength was only 16 dbi. When I looked up the regulatory limits I noticed that Taiwan allow channels 1-13 just like ZA, but that they allow up to 1W (1000mW) whereas ZA is apparently part of the ITU European community and limits transmit power to 10% of this level, namely 100mW. When I subsequently changed the country for the both the 2.4 and 5 GHz profiles to reference Taiwan the transmit power is now 27 dbi on both 2.4 and 5 GHz and range is slightly better than the old hAP ac units that I used previously. My experience is now substantially better to what it was originally, my Arlo wireless video cameras that state 6 month battery on a full charge was previously running out of power after only a month, so I'm hoping to have to recharge them considerably less often now that signal strength on the cameras is once again up to the 75% level.

PS: My home is on a small agricultural holding, changing this in an apartment block would most probably create WiFi smog but there is no hint of my WiFi even half way to the road entrance gate so I doubt I'm causing any kind of interference for my neighbours.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Thu Jul 13, 2023 9:29 am

Usual disclaimer:
it is the user's responsibility to make sure his device is in accordance with local regulations.
There are countries were quite heave fines are in place when they catch you.
If you decide to go around those restrictions, that's your own responsibility.

Having said that...
Mikrotik is IMHO quite strict to applying these country regulations (lately).
Probably a lot stricter then competing brands (and definitely taking into account most of them don't provide updates this frequently, even to older devices).

So yes, you can use other country settings and improve your local situation w.r.t. signal strength but at your own risk :)
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Jul 14, 2023 6:01 pm

Usual disclaimer:
it is the user's responsibility to make sure his device is in accordance with local regulations.
There are countries were quite heave fines are in place when they catch you.
If you decide to go around those restrictions, that's your own responsibility.

Having said that...
Mikrotik is IMHO quite strict to applying these country regulations (lately).
Probably a lot stricter then competing brands (and definitely taking into account most of them don't provide updates this frequently, even to older devices).

So yes, you can use other country settings and improve your local situation w.r.t. signal strength but at your own risk :)
Name a country that legally persecutes high Wi-Fi output in residential segment. I'm very curious to learn some examples.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Jul 14, 2023 6:08 pm

Belgium
Italy
2 examples right out of my head.

For Belgium, check site of bipt.be (and it's even in English !!)
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Jul 14, 2023 6:13 pm

Off the top of my Head, i've never heard of anybody being done for WiFi related issues with home equipment.
Plenty of Pirate Radio Station though!
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Jul 14, 2023 6:15 pm

Belgium
Italy
2 examples right out of my head.

For Belgium, check site of bipt.be (and it's even in English !!)
Theory, yes. What about practice? Did someone's grandson go to jail for increasing Wi-Fi power output using hAP ax3?
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Jul 14, 2023 6:19 pm

While you were answering, I have been researching for cases.

I did find plenty of "stop using this equipment or else"-visits by our local telecom regulator at private and public spaces.
Real law suits I didn't find yet, not sure that will be made public that easily.

Again,
your own responsibility.
Do as you want with your equipment.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Jul 14, 2023 8:04 pm

There was another distorted weather map on (Belgian/Flemisch) national television last month. (Didn't record it, but it was a pretty strong distortion)
So yes, the BIPT will again be burdened to find the culprit.

https://www.wirelessinfo.be/wifi-wetgeving/
https://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20170223_02747085
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Jul 14, 2023 9:10 pm

so what they are trying to say is use this instead..








whats goin' on, silly games...?








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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sat Sep 02, 2023 8:42 pm

Hello, I have HAP AX 3 in RTV cabinet. Can I take the antennas outside with H155 cable 5 meters? There will be big losses?

Best Regards!
 
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mkx
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Sep 03, 2023 12:04 am

Beware that H155 cable seems to work decentky up to around 3GHz, so it will only be good for 2.4GHz band. 5m of cable will introduce around 2.5dB loss, possibly more if connectors and adapters won't be done perfectly.

So yes, it can be done, if the new antenna position will gain a lot compared to the old position, then abtena cable loss would be acceptable.

But: why not placing the device to the better place? Even a bundle of 5 UTP cables (cat5e woukd do) should be manageable and wifi performance would be a tad better.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Sep 03, 2023 11:10 am

Thanks.
I already have furniture and no place to hide bundles of 5 cables. Maybe use a different cable? Better than H155?
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Sep 03, 2023 1:44 pm

I don't think that a dB of a difference in cable loss would be a real changer. I was just thinking that pulling a few UTP cables (instead of a pair of coaxial cables) would be a similarly daunting task but the end effect would be at least as good (allowing to use 5GHz as well) but without any out-of-ordinary actions. Probably cheaper to do as well.
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Sep 03, 2023 1:47 pm

What cable use for 5GHz? RF240?
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Sep 03, 2023 2:00 pm

Any cable which is certified to go up to at least 6GHz. The one with lowest attenuation would be best (MRC 400 seems to be better) but it seems you're constrained to thiner ones (which come with higher attenuation). So you'll have to compromise a bit ...
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Sun Sep 03, 2023 7:29 pm

Thanks fo reply.

BestRegards
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:28 pm

hello guys, using the default config on wireless, ax3 gives me very poor performance on wifi 5 ghz (wifi 6 )

My phone samsung s23 on iperf has 20 mb/s transfer rate at 2meters distance from router (without obstacles)

My laptop having an intel AX card, gives me the same performace.

I am using skip dfs 10-cac, no country selected (i am in Europre and tried my country, still having very bad results).

My area is not having many other 5 ghz channels arround, ip scan shows 4 more other ssids running at different channels.

What is the problem and how i can improve the 5ghz performance?
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Wed Jan 17, 2024 4:58 pm

Hoping you get your MT wifi6 soon bpwl, cannot wait for the 'blessed' configuration that works!!
Finally got my hAPax2 to test wifi6 at home location. And while reading all these hAP ax3 poor performance posts. Here some ideas of what could be wrong

viewtopic.php?t=203076#p1049300
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Wed Jan 17, 2024 5:02 pm

What is the problem and how i can improve the 5ghz performance?
Would be helpfull to:
  • see the configuration
  • know at what rate the client is connected
  • how the network speedtest is performed
 
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Re: MikroTik hAP ax3 poor WiFi performance

Fri Mar 01, 2024 6:06 pm

I would like to contribute to this list also, with fresh amateur knowledges and some introduction...

I had a nice conversation with @holvoetn in different topic, about "hap ac2" and globally "other" models with small (16MB) storage space and "qcom_ac" drivers installed on them. I mention this, because during my "hesitation" which device to choose instead of RB4011 with WiFi, i deployed week ago for this temporary period "hap ac2" including wifiwave2 driver. I was IMPRESSED with WiFi performance and coverage of this small device, where i was able in home envinroment get 550Mb "speedtest.net , fast.com, wifisweetspots" results, without any issues, in a really nice range. It was PERFECT setup (but very dangerous, because of storage limitations, where only 600kb storage left). During last two years i went through "half" of the MikroTik product line-up and i clearly remember the period when i sold my "hap ac3" was during first releases of wifiwave2, which was incomparable to "todays" performance. Since i wouldnt like to wait too long with such a setup for new purchase i went through "hap ax3" and "hap ax2".
The results are sadly not impressive and without any mentionable difference for me between ax2 vs ax3. TOTALLY same "setup", same placement, same client devices (iPhone 15/iMac 27", Samsung Galaxy S23/Lenovo T14 with 160Mhz WiFi) , SAME WiFi config (of course only the channels are set to Ax, instead of Ac). Some measurements was provided with couple of minutes difference, till i switch one router to another. Yeah, i was able to catch sometimes 650Mb results on mentioned "tests", but approx 1m away from router. Every single meter dropped the speed significantly. The place for some optimal measuring (for me) is "sitting behind the kitchen table :D" , where kitchen is directly connected with living room (where router is located). The distance is approx. 6-7m, without any obstacles like walls, closet, anything = the router is in front of me. In this location performed every "hap ax" device WORSE as the cheap "hap ac2".
567Mb-ac2 compared to 426Mb-ax2/ax3
As i move further to the next rooms, the difference is getting smaller (around 100Mb), but still "nice" behind the "cheap, small device". I was not able to get at least SAME speeds/performance as "hap ac2" ANYWHERE, except 1m away from router... !
Im really disappointed and considering to move back to "ac3" (for the same price as ax2) which should hopefully serve the same performance as "ac2" without storage issues.

P.S1: during measurements on "ax2/3" was a strange behaviour present, where the speed during measurement was higher in first 2-3seconds and then drops. So it starts with higher value and drops for the end of the test.
P.S2: the lack of possiblity to turn of the front LEDs on ax2 was the next "nice" suprise...

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