User poll about using Winbox

Mon Jan 15, 2024 9:43 am

1) Have you ever used Sessions? (default ones are <own> and <none> and you can make more)
2) Describe in a few words, what you think they do
3) How could we supercharge this feature to actually be useful for everyone?
4) Does the name Sessions actually convey what this feature is meant to do?
5) After reading the other posts, if you are surprised to learn something, comment again with what you just learned

elbob2002 · Mon Jan 15, 2024 10:01 am

No
Assumed it would open a new winbox session.
No Opinion
Having just read the documentation I don't think it does!
N/A

glueck05 · Mon Jan 15, 2024 10:21 am

1) Yes, from time to time the winbox stuck and does not load. In this case i set to <none> and reconnect. This only happens on X86-Systems.
2) Config the view on the device via the winbox i.e. shown columens etc.
3) It would be great if some columens shown from the frist connect (I disable the whole POE thing and enable Rate, RX-Power, FCS-Errors, etc) for Switches without PoE
4) Yes.
5) No.

Caci99 · Mon Jan 15, 2024 10:25 am

1. Yes
2. I use sessions a lot in saving windows and column widths on particular routers. For example in core routers I use it to have always queues and firewall in first view, on capsman routers I set it to view capsman window at first opening etc.
3. No opinion right now
4. I guess it does, ones you know what it is for.

Etz · Mon Jan 15, 2024 10:33 am

1. No
2. Assumed it would open a new WinBox instance.
3. No idea, never used
4. Nope
5. Nope

karlisi · Mon Jan 15, 2024 11:08 am

1.No
2.Save and load multiple interface settings for same device?
3.No idea
4.Perhaps yes
5.Not surprised, but yes, learned something

infabo · Mon Jan 15, 2024 11:15 am

Aren't these sessions implicitly created & used? So no way around not using a session. Right? But I never created a new one on my own.
I would say a winbox session is actually not a session - it is a profile. It just saves your window-positions in a file - nothing more. When you disconnect from a session, nothing is running in the background on your router. You are disconnected. And when you re-connect - a new connection/session is created: just with window positions from your saved session.
Re-use sessions for multiple devices.
It depends. As someone who uses tmux I am aware of the term "session". You can save your session, disconnect and re-connect and have your windows where you left off. But that's it basically it. But again: winbox sessions are more like profiles. I think the regular user would understand the term profile better too.

Mon Jan 15, 2024 11:17 am

Yes, those are actually LAYOUTS. You can save predefined layouts, for example with wireless windows, with firewall windows, any commonly used window layout. It is not bound to router. And you can switch between these layouts, without need to close and open each window.

infabo · Mon Jan 15, 2024 11:20 am

Oh, you need to switch to "Advanced Mode" to see the session-selection on the main screen.......

joarc · Mon Jan 15, 2024 11:26 am

Sortof, have but rarely change from <own>
When logged into devices, specifies what windows & layout to show on connect
Add some way to change/manage session when already connected, to be able to quickly open a session. Sortof like multiple "workspaces" of predefined windows or desktops in Windows
It is unclear for anyone who hasn't gone MTCNA or read the wiki, so maybe a rename is in order?
I think Layout or Workspace would convey the purpose of the function more clearly, as session is a bit to broad and used for many things in the IT-world.

rextended · Mon Jan 15, 2024 11:30 am

1) Continuosly

2) Fix the bad default winbox visual choice (like right colums to display, column size, windows position, etc.)

3) It's impossible to please everyone, there's always someone who isn't happy, and as usual they are the ones who write on the forum.
Others who think it works don't care about writing it,
so listening to those who are dissatisfied leads to dissatisfiing many more people who are actually satisfied, and they are the majority.
Don't do anything stupid in future, like save the session(s) inside the RouterBOARD,
or going to complicate something that works in its simplicity, and modifying it by adding something would worsen its quality.

4) No, it's better to call them “visual preferences”, or something like that.

5) I'm not that surprised to see that people don't know what they're using...

Mon Jan 15, 2024 11:52 am

1) Yes, mostly to apply a nicely configured session from an existing device to a new one.
2) They store Winbox windows' layouts (windows positions and sizes, columns visibility, order and widths, etc.).
3) No idea (other than making the session file human readable/editable).
4) I've always believed they do. But now that you've mentioned the word "layouts" that may a be a better name, actually.

sinisa · Mon Jan 15, 2024 12:50 pm

1. All the time
2. Keep my layout as I like it for particular device
3. Make them user editable, so I can remove all of the FP columns from script, since I usually don't remember to start with MY default session with them already removed
4. Never thought about that, it was kind of obvious
5. I'm not that easily surprised (call me old)

draid · Mon Jan 15, 2024 12:52 pm

1) Have you ever used Sessions? (default ones are <own> and <none> and you can make more)
2) Describe in a few words, what you think they do
3) How could we supercharge this feature to actually be useful for everyone?
4) Does the name Sessions actually convey what this feature is meant to do?
5) After reading the other posts, if you are surprised to learn something, comment again with what you just learned

1. Yes
2. From what I've tested it is windows layout not session (I have speciffic arrangement for all my windows which I use).
3. It would be great to be more intuitive. Saving multiple layouts and being able to load them from winbox. It sometimes seems to be buggy. Sometimes for no reason winbox runs not in maximized window and everything needs to be rearanged again. Also not connecting a "session" to local IP but rather be able to pick a presaved ones. Clould save maybe?
4. Change the name to "Predefined Layouts" or something.
5. Apperantly a lot of users thought it's something which it's not.

rextended · Mon Jan 15, 2024 12:53 pm

Caci99 · Mon Jan 15, 2024 1:29 pm

About point 3
One thing that comes to mind, is to not save sessions which are <own>. That way if one wants to assign a self defined session is easier to pick it up from the drop down menu of sessions instead of scrolling.

Screenshot 2024-01-15 122334.jpg

Mon Jan 15, 2024 1:31 pm

Sessions (Layouts) are not bound to the router. You can load some layout on any router, so you should probably name them by Function. not by IP

draid · Mon Jan 15, 2024 1:39 pm

Sessions (Layouts) are not bound to the router. You can load some layout on any router, so you should probably name them by Function. not by IP

Ok, this is something close to mind that I rly wasn't using (maybe due to autosave on close). It does make much more sense to save them not based on ip. My point for "local ip name" is not relevant in this case.

anav · Mon Jan 15, 2024 2:47 pm

Not a clue, never used it.
Seeing as rextended uses it, and he is not the type to phuck around with things that waste his time, it must have value!
If this feature/function can make the user experience with winbox or configurations better, aka easier, more intuitive, faster, less error prone etc.. then it should be kept.
In terms of improving it, no comment as never used it.

In terms of finding it, its not a main topic at MT DOCS ........ nor even noted on the winbox table of contents...
...

sess2.jpg

Amm0 · Mon Jan 15, 2024 3:10 pm

1) Very infrequently, or sometime indirectly (e.g. what session was last set)
2) Save window layout, I thought...
3) Not sure – it's confusing already*. But perhaps showing them in a tab with some metadata on them on the winbox login (vs. the session dropdown with just file)
4) No – IMO it's a "layout" **
5) TL;DR

* a. If I didn't know, I'd expect it to be same a "New Winbox".
b. selecting a "session" does not change IP/MAC used to connect, but you can save them while connected to specific router...so you'd expect some association with that router.
c. no dialog box/prompting to find/select a existing session matching router, other than the drop down...
** "session" was a poor word choice, but that ship sailed a while ago IMO

txfz · Mon Jan 15, 2024 4:24 pm

1) Only <own>.
2) Save window layouts.
3) Let me specify a default "session" to be used for all (new?) connections/addresses.
4) No. A session would logically refer to the WinBox connection.

Railander · Mon Jan 15, 2024 4:30 pm

1) only default <own>
2) saves window layout?
3) i'd always wanted to take an existing layout and make it the default for new sessions, every single new device i acess i have to fix window sizes and sometimes fix shown options from context menus.
4) yes

rextended · Mon Jan 15, 2024 4:34 pm

3) i'd always wanted to take an existing layout and make it the default for new sessions, every single new device i acess i have to fix window sizes and sometimes fix shown options from context menus.

Then save it with a specific name, and use it as "default" instead of using "<own>"... No?

za7 · Mon Jan 15, 2024 5:53 pm

Generally I have only two use cases for Winbox when I lock myself out of WebFig or logging into RouterOS without a default config.
Mikrotik never made Winbox cross-platform making Winbox not an option.
WINE does not make up for Mikrotik not developing a cross-platform router management tool.
Winbox is still a Microsoft Windows executable.
I do not install WINE on my Linux boxes.
WINE Bug# 49024 Malicious software able to alter, infect and/or destroy personal files
https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49024
Security implications of running windows software on a Linux system using Wine: a malware analysis study
https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/1 ... 0319-9.pdf

RemiR · Mon Jan 15, 2024 6:27 pm

1) Everyday.
2) <own> equals "Connect to" field. <none> == blank session, even when you have ".viw" file in session folder. I more often just write something random
3) Some requests/ideas and observations:
* Sharable groups (for teams) - Security could be an issue though. (Could sync via file sharing folder, but I also have many private sessions)
* Default session, <default> - That would be loaded if session/<own> is "blank" (I already use some templates, but cumbersome to switch to/from)
* * The importent thing (for me) is what columns are shown when opening a window, not so much which windows are open already...
* Option to set default windowsize for Winbox after connection is made (often overwritten by "connection box size")
* * If a winbox session disconnects and you have auto-reconnect enabled, it often opens view in a smaller winbox window and then session needs to be reloaded (Resize window, File -> Open, Enter). I also use "Open In New Window" when connecting.
* Winbox shortkey support for open/save session
* Better functionality for duplicate (add/set -- Trying to duplicate entries often overwrite old (I might just be doing it wrong, but I often overwrite when I just want to save a new entry)).
* Theme / dark mode etc.
4) Yes, but "profile" is also a natural alternative.

nicolap · Mon Jan 15, 2024 7:11 pm

1) tried but no way
2) saves windows position for each device
3) Make it works! Now it's a mess.
4) Not so much. It has nothing to do with "Layout"
5) No. I'm sad for this.

whatever · Mon Jan 15, 2024 7:27 pm

1. Only the default session
2. Save/resume window configuration per device
3. Don't hide it in advanced
4. No
5. I did not know that sessions are device independent and can be switched on the fly

Cha0s · Mon Jan 15, 2024 8:51 pm

1) Yes, everyday
2) It allows me to select different session (or no session) for when connecting to a device from a different resolution monitor (ie desktop/laptop) without messing up the layout I have set on my larger monitors.
3)

While sessions are supposed to be interchangeable between devices (ie have predefined sessions), managing them through winbox is not very usable, so I prefer keeping separate sessions per device (even if they are identical in layout).

I would also prefer that the predefined options such as <own> and <none> would be at the top of the session list, so I can choose them more quickly when working on a laptop/touchpad out in the field. In my case that list shows hundreds of sessions so it's annoying to scroll down to find those options.

Also it would be nice to have the loader switch sessions in a more intuitive way or in way that change for every saved device at once (ie desktop/laptop mode) so I don't have to save multiple sessions per device to accommodate for different monitor resolutions.

It would also be nice to have a revert option when messing up a session, or better yet, revisions. This way I won't have to rely on Nextcloud file revisions to recover a session when it gets screwed up (and it can happen very often when a router gets disconnected abruptly).

Also make sessions readable (text based) instead of binary files. That would make them even more useful, to either edit stuff manually or recover a huge session from corruption (which can also happen, causing winbox to behave erratically).

4) I don't think so. It took me a while to find out what it does and how to use it (I don't even know if the way I use it is the intended way). And in the end, I prefer just copying the .viw using my OS file manager rather than using winbox to manage the session per device.
5) No

infabo · Mon Jan 15, 2024 9:01 pm

The most interesting observation is possibly: the file-extension for winbox session files is ".viw". It very likely stands for "view" (as windows file extensions are classically 3 chars). But someone decided to name it session inside winbox.

k6ccc · Tue Jan 16, 2024 12:55 am

1) Once in a while - usually just use <Own>
2) Loads a saved layout after Winox connects.
3) No opinion
4) It's OK.
5) Nothing yet.

phascogale · Tue Jan 16, 2024 4:40 am

Mikrotik never made Winbox cross-platform and I prefer not to use Microsoft products.

Winbox is not to my knowledge a Microsoft product.
WINE is not to my knowledge a Microsoft product.
Winbox works under WINE (or Crossover).

Now you can use the better tool.

phascogale · Tue Jan 16, 2024 4:43 am

1. No
2-4 Never considered it.
5. I know it exists.

I could consider it now.

bajodel · Tue Jan 16, 2024 5:51 am

1) All the time since the feature introduction.. long ago
2) Preset windows Layouts, I have specific ones for important devices and generic ones based on device type (small/big routers, switches, APs, CAPsMAN..)
3) Probably create some sample initial layout so that people can see the power of it
4) Probably "Layout Presets" or "Windows Layouts" .. I dunno
5) Surprised that someone is not using it

bratislav · Tue Jan 16, 2024 12:15 pm

I believe we all use sessions even unintentionally because by default WinBox will save current session for particular connection and restore the layout on next connection...
Maybe it would be a good idea to be able to save "connectionless" session with some proffered windows layout not bound to specific IP or MAC... otherwise it is pretty useful as it is, it kind of allows you to continue were you left of...

nichky · Tue Jan 16, 2024 1:38 pm

does season mean that will save the ip/mac address when u log in to the MT?

Fesiitis · Tue Jan 16, 2024 2:38 pm

1. Yes, regularly. I use them to save window and column layouts for different routers.
2. I've always thought of sessions as an opportunity to personalize windows and columns to your liking.
3. If sessions could be managed from the Winbox GUI. If I want to use one session for another router, I copy the file and rename it. And it would be very useful to be able to do a double-click to automatically resize horizontal columns from Winbox. This triggers my OCD of having to do column sorting manually.

4. I think so.

bajodel · Tue Jan 16, 2024 2:44 pm

..[CUT].. Maybe it would be a good idea to be able to save "connectionless" session with some preferred windows layout not bound to specific IP or MAC...[CUT]..

You can already, when you save a profile it's available for selection for other/new connections.

jonah1810 · Tue Jan 16, 2024 10:46 pm

1. No
2. I thought it was to open multiple connections in one winbox instance
3. I'm now unsure of what it actually does so I can't say. Is this for saving specific layouts?
4. I do not think so
5. It seems its about saving a layout (like certain columns) I had no idea before.

joegoldman · Wed Jan 17, 2024 12:34 am

1) Yes, extensively
2) Saves your 'session' or recalls your 'session' between logins
3) It's pretty useful for me - perhaps turning off auto-save when on a specific (non own or none) session, so it doesn't affect everything else
- Edit: oh another one I just thought of, is perhaps session syncing or stored on device, so a company can have set sessions that push out and its the same for all operators. If your local winbox doesn't already know about it though then you'd have to login first to get the list.
4) It does once you understand it, but could be clearer.

phascogale · Wed Jan 17, 2024 12:54 am

Having now tried it, I will return to items 2-4.

2. Enables return to the layout last used in a given connection and session.
3. Possibly, that session/layout names were marked according to whether devices were currently accessible ( conforming with neighbours check for saved layouts)
4. Session Layout would be clearest but verbose.

guipoletto · Wed Jan 17, 2024 2:35 am

I guess they are both a "session" and a "window template", depending on how you look at it:

When left alone / default / <own> / for non-advanced-mode users, it is "their" session to the router
it's a dynamic thing, (given session auto-save on logout is the default);

Effectivelly the same as "pick up where i left"

Otherwise, it's a fixed "window template", for when one wants to execute the same operation in 10's of different routers, without repetitivelly having to fiddle with window placements
but this demands a deliberate action on the user's part

maybe those could be split in two folders?
implicitly reload the <%APPDATA\Roaming\Mikrotik\Winbox\sessions\hostname.viw> file if nothing is selected (therefore, a session)

show a shortlist from <%APPDATA\Roaming\Mikrotik\Winbox\custom-templates\*.viw> before the usually polluted list of sessions, for when one desires to use is as a Template

some override of "autosave" behavior would be benefical, otherwise the templates would end up mungled over time. (require explicit session-save when loaded from the "templates" folder?

t0mm13b · Wed Jan 17, 2024 8:45 am

1) Have you ever used Sessions? (default ones are <own> and <none> and you can make more)
2) Describe in a few words, what you think they do
3) How could we supercharge this feature to actually be useful for everyone?
4) Does the name Sessions actually convey what this feature is meant to do?
5) After reading the other posts, if you are surprised to learn something, comment again with what you just learned

1) Yes, one session configured for one device, and another for newly acquisitioned device

2) They store the MAC / IP of devices, a 1:1 relationship between session and address of device
3) Not sure, field for Note, is that even stored in the session? Vaguely recall - but that shows it is overlooked "as long as the device address is what it should be, all good"
4) Somewhat think so, see point 2 above,
5) Did not realize that session actually stores window layouts organized in such manner.

Come to think of it, session seems too overloaded a word - is that not documented explaining the rationale behind it?
Layout / View sounds wrong wording, that is often associated with graphic designers/ developers designing front ends

Answers did surprise me - did see someone mention about Advanced, and do not see it - that a device specific thing?

infabo · Wed Jan 17, 2024 12:17 pm

I just found out there other settings saved in session files as well:

* Settings / Hide passwords
* Settings / Inline comments
* Dashboard / Add xyz

ech1965 · Wed Jan 17, 2024 12:47 pm

Using CLI with serial port ( except on '(§è! RB5009 where I need to use ssh)
Used winbox ONCE to regain access to a router ( whole nighmare: no windows box in the shop).
had to install wine on macos...

never again !

FilipTH71 · Wed Jan 17, 2024 5:21 pm

1) Yes always enabled
2) Continues where you left. Save device session to Appdata when I close.
3) Make it easy to reset or delete the sessiondata / open folder directly. Have issues when setting up LTE devices. Quick Setup dosn't always detect LTE module and make it available in the combo after updates.
4) I think so.
5) Confused if I misunderstood the purpose.

nithinkumar2000 · Thu Jan 18, 2024 6:48 am

1. No
2. Assumed it would open a new winbox session.
3. No Opinion
4. Having just read the documentation I don't think it does!
5. Yes

Guscht · Thu Jan 18, 2024 11:59 am

1. No
2. own: my perfectly arranged and opened windows appear / none: default
3. never used, no glue
4. Google "mikrotik winbox session" finds nothing useful -> too lazy to fiddle in help and/or wiki -> dont know
5. what?!

AdHocCZ1 · Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:49 pm

1/ YES

2/ they mix two separate things: LAYOUTS (save, open...) and SESSIONS (disconnect, exit)

3a/ more proper wording to menu items to distinguish sessions and layouts

Alternatively Maybe to add kb shortcuts and items
Ctrl-O = OpenLayout
Ctrl-S = SaveLayout
Ctrl-Shift-S = SaveAsLayout
Ctrl-N = NewSessionWithDefaultLayout
Ctrl-D = OpenDuplicateOfCurrentSession

And/or underscore letters in menu items to activate them via Alt key...

3b/ via menu definable filename_prefix when SaveAs e.g. per DeviceID, e.g. filename-prefix ThisDeviceID_
(+FileName preselection in filename field ThisDeviceID_ because user can
deselect pressing the RightArrowKey and append whatever wants, or just overwrite all just typing)

3c/ open-show FILTERS -- e.g. all saved by same deviceID, deviceType,

3d/ possibility to define default layout per registered deviceType, deviceID-name

(of course all these "3b-3d" examples can be at least somehow done via discipline
on user side in naming devices and filenames for "sessions-layouts")

4/ NO, but could be improved at least by more proper wording for each submenu item

narghile · Thu Jan 18, 2024 11:24 pm

1) Multple desktops that I can select with mod+1, mod+2
2) Tiling windows
3) Double-click to auto resize columns

rushlife · Fri Jan 19, 2024 10:22 am

1)no
2)don't know
3)don't know
4)don't know
5)I am writing here my wishes about WinBox for long time :

a) separate winbox version for LINUX, Mac, Windows
b) pls remove Quickset dedicated button
c) implementing some sort of configuratible shortcuts for configuratible action, commands (close all windows , open last closed window, open interfaces, open firewall, safemode...)
d) custom views based on BOARD TYPE of connected device, configuratible REFRESH rate of communicate
e) skins for winbox. Yes, I known it is bullshit but when you have opened winbox for 10hr daily, you need (want) dark mode, maybe different fonts, etc...

sas2k · Fri Jan 19, 2024 10:25 am

1) Have you ever used Sessions? (default ones are <own> and <none> and you can make more)
2) Describe in a few words, what you think they do
3) How could we supercharge this feature to actually be useful for everyone?
4) Does the name Sessions actually convey what this feature is meant to do?
5) After reading the other posts, if you are surprised to learn something, comment again with what you just learned

1) use implicitly, due to "autosave on close".
2) desktop windows etc.
3) dont know
4) sessions is fine.
5) dont know.

robmaltsystems · Fri Jan 19, 2024 12:10 pm

>1) Have you ever used Sessions? (default ones are <own> and <none> and you can make more)

Very rarely.

2) Describe in a few words, what you think they do

Clearly not what I thought. I thought they saved screen layout but clearly not.

3) How could we supercharge this feature to actually be useful for everyone?

Well as I don't know what they do, then no

4) Does the name Sessions actually convey what this feature is meant to do?

Clearly not

5) After reading the other posts, if you are surprised to learn something, comment again with what you just learned

Will read later.

kevinds · Sat Jan 20, 2024 2:43 am

1) Have you ever used Sessions? (default ones are <own> and <none> and you can make more)
Yes.. All the time.

2) Describe in a few words, what you think they do
They save the 'state' of Winbox. Which windows are open, where they are placed, the selected tab in each window, and any filters that might be applied, also the menu options selected, up-time, date, the 'show-passwords' option, inline comments..

3) How could we supercharge this feature to actually be useful for everyone?
Allow me to make my own default session that can easily be applied to not-yet-connected to routers, and easily overwrite 'own' back to 'my' default session. Every single time I connect to a different system my first few minutes are doing the exact same thing.

4) Does the name Sessions actually convey what this feature is meant to do?
No, Layout or Profile would be a better name. If I am wrong, please tell us what this feature is meant to do, then we can answer that question.

aoakeley · Sun Jan 21, 2024 9:15 am

1) Have you ever used Sessions? (default ones are <own> and <none> and you can make more)
No, and I use winbox, all the time every day.

2) Describe in a few words, what you think they do
I presume it is to save a layout or view for a router or bunch of routers.

3) How could we supercharge this feature to actually be useful for everyone?
Can't say really, I log onto so any different routers for so many different reasons I cant actually conceive of a reason why I would want this feature. BUT to echo what some others have said, if they are using it and find it useful then maybe the issue is just that I have not tried it and I don't know what I am missing out on yet because I have not tried !!

4) Does the name Sessions actually convey what this feature is meant to do?
I guess maybe not?

5) After reading the other posts, if you are surprised to learn something, comment again with what you just learned
I suppose I have learnt to go and try it?

madmeesh · Mon Jan 22, 2024 12:08 am

1) Have you ever used Sessions? (default ones are <own> and <none> and you can make more)
Once I discovered them, yes; exclusively.
2) Describe in a few words, what you think they do
They allow one to configure a specific window layout/column config/app state that can be loaded on-demand.
3) How could we supercharge this feature to actually be useful for everyone?
Expose text-based configuration or API of some kind. I like to store my "session" files in git for example.
4) Does the name Sessions actually convey what this feature is meant to do?
Kinda but not really (more like "layout" which one post alluded to).

rplant · Mon Jan 22, 2024 1:57 am

1. I guess all the time
2. Remember your settings for that router
3. It would be nice if I had a default setting called ???
That when I deleted the existing session for a router, then connected to it again it
would use the default session.

Also have a one time only tickbox saying use default session.
Which once connected (using the default session), would untick itself. And when you close
(normally) that winbox, it would overwrite the old session (seems default).
(?? maybe some way not to overwrite the old session??, can turn off autosave on close)

Some way to save current as default.

Offtopic

Once in winbox I would like some optional customizable shortcut buttons,
either along the top, or as an additional column inside the left menu, where I can add single click buttons to view
windows that I use a lot.
With an option to close (if already open) then reopen the clicked window.

eg.
ip routes
(It is actually pretty solid these days, but when I am doing something that might not be working
likely due to my misconfiguration, I still need to close it and reopen it to make sure it is just me)

A button to bring the last used terminal screen to the front.
(Recent Windows selection is handy for this, but not one click)

kevinds · Mon Jan 22, 2024 3:27 am

I log onto so any different routers for so many different reasons I cant actually conceive of a reason why I would want this feature. BUT to echo what some others have said, if they are using it and find it useful then maybe the issue is just that I have not tried it and I don't know what I am missing out on yet because I have not tried !!

Personally, every router I log into, my first actions are turning on every Dashboard setting, enabling In-Line Comments and turning off Hide Passwords in the Settings menu.. After that, opening the Log window and moving it to where usually put it. Finally to actually work, opening IP-Firewall and Interfaces because regardless of what I am doing, there is a good chance I need them.

Regardless of what I am doing, that is where I start, so saving the session, leaves the settings set. It isn't worth the time messing with the files in Sessions folder vs building a new 'own' session file.

sinisa · Mon Jan 22, 2024 4:41 pm

I'd like to see an option like "Default Sesion" in Settings, so that it get loaded every time I first access a device, with "<own>" still being the default for save, so I can have sane (for me, not what Mikrotik or anyone else think is sane) environment on first connect, and whatever I left later...

ksteink · Mon Jan 22, 2024 9:21 pm

1) Have you ever used Sessions? (default ones are <own> and <none> and you can make more)
2) Describe in a few words, what you think they do
3) How could we supercharge this feature to actually be useful for everyone?
4) Does the name Sessions actually convey what this feature is meant to do?
5) After reading the other posts, if you are surprised to learn something, comment again with what you just learned

1) Nop, never saw them until I click Advanced Mode (which I never do)
2) No idea
3) No idea as I don't understand what it does today
4) No unless you guys explain better what is this for.
5) First time to hear about this so I am looking to learn more about this.

pe1chl · Mon Jan 22, 2024 9:45 pm

I use sessions all the time. Usually with <own> but sometimes with a file that describes a specific model and usage scenario (and thus is shared between different devices).
I have a big investment in sessions files that are completely customized and I hate it when I lose one and have to re-do it...
For me it saves the layout of open windows, selected columns and size of the columns in each window.
The name "session" may be a misnomer, I have seen many times that users did not know what they do.

Suggested improvements:
- optionally store the session file on the router (in the files section, on a path that is in the flash) so that it can more easily be shared between systems/users
- alternatively make a facility for a "path" of session folders, so that one could define a common location on a fileserver to be searched first
- make the sessions files humanly readable/editable (for experts), e.g. by using a JSON format instead of the current binary format
(because sometimes corruption can happen in the session files and the only recourse is to throw them away entirely, instead of removing the entries for some window that misbehaves)
- set the default name of the sessions files from something that is less likely to change. e.g. the MAC address of the first interface instead of the IP address or DNS name

volga629 · Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:22 pm

No builds for MAC and LInux. That will be nice addition.

kevinds · Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:56 pm

No builds for MAC and LInux. That will be nice addition.

They test it with wine, it works very well, except one version in the past, and that was quickly corrected.

millenium7 · Tue Jan 23, 2024 12:41 pm

Never once used or knew what this was about. So yes it is very poorly worded

That said, i'm almost always logging into routers and then choosing 'Close all Windows' due to the clutter. This is because I didn't even know what 'session' was and never paid any attention to it. But inevitably the winbox window just gets cluttered and it's almost always faster to just close it all and start again. So maybe now i'll always choose 'none'
Yet now even knowing how it works, it's not something I want in its current implementation. My more highly suggested focus would actually be on the UI of winbox first, as it just gets messy. Particularly when used on RDP sessions that adjust resolution quite frequently. A few QoL improvements, such as
- Titlebar pin button that would keep that window 'always on top'
- Snap windows to area's inside of winbox (whilst holding a modifier like SHIFT or CTRL)
- Resizing winbox considers layout of currently open windows and adjusts them. I like IP addresses visible in the top/right corner so i'd like to see that follow the winbox window as its made larger/smaller. And resize windows that were too small/large to fit properly
- Session tabs in winbox!!!

If the above was implemented well enough and ultimately reduced the clutter, then I might want to save layouts. But not when its currently for naught because winbox just ends up a mess and too difficult to re-orient everything back into a nice visible space to want to save a particular layout

millenium7 · Tue Jan 23, 2024 12:46 pm

That said, perhaps a low hanging fruit that would 'supercharge' this feature for me, is another drop down menu at the top called 'Layouts' for saving/loading presets. One that is usable whilst logged into a router, not beforehand

I could then just go to the Layouts drop down menu, choose one of my named favourites and instantly have it open and place all those windows such as OSPF neighbors tab, IP addresses, IP routes, BFD etc
Another one for DHCP server leases, IP pool, interfaces, IP hotspot etc and I can load that saved layout. Not have the session be specific to any one router. Would definitely make it much easier diving right into where I need to go. And importantly flicking back n forth between different aspects (maybe even allow binding keyboard shortcuts such as CTRL+ALT+Num0-9 to change between them)

This would make loading my common winbox visual setups substantially faster and might make me care about anything other than 'close all windows' and reopening them all again

pe1chl · Tue Jan 23, 2024 5:50 pm

That is why I write I have a big investment in session files!
For every router I have a session file (either <own> for that router or a common one for several routers) where all the open windows show what I want to view, with the correct columns (those FP columns deleted, for example), the appropriate size for the window, etc.
Even for windows that are not usually open I have set that, so when I open a new window it immediately shows what I need.

That is why I am so p*ssed off when the "solution" for a strange problem is "delete your session file and see if it is reproducable".
Indeed I have found in several cases that this solved the problem (introduced by using session files for a long time on many different RouterOS versions), but it costs me so much effort to get everything right again...
I would be prepared to search the wrong info in a JSON file, or write a small script for that, to repair a session file.
I already wrote a "decoder" for .viw files but they contain too little information to know what everything is about and how it fits together, so repairing one is virtually impossible.

I agree that having capability to load part of a session would be helpful in some cases, but usually when I connect to a new router I first copy the session file of another one.

Frank52 · Wed Jan 24, 2024 8:29 pm

I am very unprepared to answer these questions, so I stay at the window to listen to the comments and opinions of the "people". By listening and following you, I will be able to develop my knowledge and appreciate the functions.
I must add in this regard since we are on the subject of WinBox, what often happens to me when I close the connection (top left) to exit Winbox, from the hAPax3 router I bought about two months ago, a message always appears: Can't find the Backup folder of my LHHGM Kit 18 LTE. from which I receive the connection signal, what could this mean?
Do I have to worry.
Under the LHGGM 18 through a switch (netgear unfortunately I have nothing else available) the network cable reaches my new hAPax3 and it is from this session that when closing winbox the message I have just indicated appears, namely: LHGGM BACKUP FOLDER NOT FOUND what does it mean?

cfv · Thu Jan 25, 2024 9:28 pm

1. Yes
2. I think they are used to save different view setups that are opened on next login.
3. Maybe, instead of just saving sessions as files on my local machine, create a menu inside winbox to manage them and save them directly on the router. It could be useful when using winbox from different workstations to connect to the same router
4. Not really, maybe saved sessions could be better, idk.

dot02 · Thu Feb 01, 2024 2:23 am

I did not read any of the replies in order not to get biased. So:

1) Yes, if by "session" you mean what I will describe in point 2. Otherwise, no.
2) I know the "session" concept from Arista. You create a session, configure all the changes without committing them, and at a later point you can either commit all at once into the running config, or discard all your changes by deleting your session.
3) If we're talking about the same thing, it would be nice to be able to have automated roll-backs if after let's say 5 minutes after a session commit you don't ack the change is OK (meaning you lost conectivity - so something is wrong => auto rollback)
4) for me yes, but I might be wrong here.
5) After reading a bit through the posts, it turns out sessions are something completely different than what I had in mind...so nevermind!

Amm0 · Thu Feb 01, 2024 3:13 am

5) After reading a bit through the posts, it turns out sessions are something completely different than what I had in mind...so nevermind!

LOL. Seem you figured it has more to with layouts/styling

What you describe is closer to "safe mode": https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/display/ ... t-SafeMode

dot02 · Thu Feb 01, 2024 10:51 am

Indeed! Thanks for the link, I wasn't aware of this feature!

hmatmtf · Thu Feb 01, 2024 10:59 pm

Please rewrite winbox in Java, so that non-Windows users can finally remove 2GB of wine...

dot02 · Fri Feb 02, 2024 12:32 am

you mean, so that non-windows users can stop WINE-ing?

rua · Fri Feb 02, 2024 12:36 am

Amm0 · Fri Feb 02, 2024 12:39 am

Please rewrite winbox in Java, so that non-Windows users can finally remove 2GB of wine...

viewtopic.php?t=200431&hilit=winbox#p1050586

ConradPino · Tue Feb 06, 2024 3:09 am

CLI is only built-in script friendly configuration mechanism
WebFig and Winbox are both script hostile GUI tools
WebFig is built-in and sufficiently useful
Winbox is not built-in and superfluous

Winbox has an audience but it's not universal.

mkx · Tue Feb 06, 2024 8:28 am

Please rewrite winbox in Java, so that non-Windows users can finally remove 2GB of wine...

.

WebFig is built-in and sufficiently useful

Winbox is not built-in and superfluous

So we can agree that the only essential difference between Winbox and WebFig is the ability of former to connect device even if IP setup is not correct (and matching between ROS device and management workstation). And that difference would like go away if Winbox was rewritten to java. Hence idea about rewriting winbox to java is a stupid idea.

For all those professionals whose lives depend on winbox and are striving to get native app for <insert your favourite non-MS OS here>: if this is your tool for basic earnings, then suck it and use OS that supports it. I don't see many plumbers bitching about how jack lift should aide fitting sewage pipes.

pe1chl · Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:20 am

So we can agree that the only essential difference between Winbox and WebFig is the ability of former to connect device even if IP setup is not correct (and matching between ROS device and management workstation). And that difference would like go away if Winbox was rewritten to java. Hence idea about rewriting winbox to java is a stupid idea.

As before, my opinion is that the MAC-level access to MikroTik routers should be split off in a helper application, together
with netinstall. This is something you run when you need direct access to devices outside of IP, and it will create a local
socket where IP applications can connect. Once that is done, this kind of operation will be possible even from webfig.

Webfig can be changed to be much more like winbox, there are toolkits available that enable the creation of a winbox-like
use interface inside of a webpage. Competition already does it.

Of course the problem will be lack of space in flash to hold that better UI. But it could be an optional package only available
on routers with enough flash space.

rushlife · Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:43 pm

So we can agree that the only essential difference between Winbox and WebFig is the ability of former to connect device even if IP setup is not correct (and matching between ROS device and management workstation). And that difference would like go away if Winbox was rewritten to java. Hence idea about rewriting winbox to java is a stupid idea.

For all those professionals whose lives depend on winbox and are striving to get native app for <insert your favourite non-MS OS here>: if this is your tool for basic earnings, then suck it and use OS that supports it. I don't see many plumbers bitching about how jack lift should aide fitting sewage pipes.

This thinking is just wrong. If you are admin in company (which is bigger than small), you typically administrating dozens ( in my case hundreds ) of devices and it cannot be done via web config effectively. No chance at all. And if you don't have that need, that's ok. The same way is ok just, .....you known.... having this need of native winbox mgmt tool, which is basically essential to you.

And thinking about just purely windows version of this tool is also "unhappy". There is minority of people like network admins, which using so stupid and useless OS like windows. This is OS for morons, gamers and children. That's all. Not for real work of sysadmin. Nmap, ping, wireshark,lynis, ssh, wget, fluxion and etc (essential tools for network admin) are not native windows app.

And because most of network administrators using Mac or (mainly IMHO) linux, it is quite essential to have winbox for these platforms without any unnecessary ballast (wine).

mkx · Tue Feb 06, 2024 10:01 pm

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against having native linux version of winbox (and I don't really care about macOS

), I'm just saying that rewriting it in java would be dumbest thing to do (and, let's admit it, java application isn't native in any of normal OSes, android is not one).

But if MT doesn't see fit to invest resources into rewriting winbox to use some platform independent widgets (so it could easily be ported to different OSes), then running it with wine is the next best thing. And it mostly works just fine, it's mostly purists complaining about "unneeded wine" layer (and some complaints about problems running it with wine in macOS turned out to be problems with particular wine packaging). Next would be complaints about "non-native" look and feel if MT actually went for a true platform-independent widget thingy.

rushlife · Tue Feb 06, 2024 10:11 pm

I am with you on java,
viz viewtopic.php?p=1053846#p1053846

And I am really thinking any investment of time and money to native winbox app will be invest well spent... I am confident with this.

Cha0s · Tue Feb 06, 2024 10:26 pm

There is minority of people like network admins, which using so stupid and useless OS like windows. This is OS for morons, gamers and children. That's all. Not for real work of sysadmin. Nmap, ping, wireshark,lynis, ssh, wget, fluxion and etc (essential tools for network admin) are not native windows app.

And because most of network administrators using Mac or (mainly IMHO) linux, it is quite essential to have winbox for these platforms without any unnecessary ballast (wine).

Get off your high horse, with your anecdotal "minority" statistics that came our of your rear. What are you, five?
Real professionals use whatever suits their needs. Others like MacOS, others Linux and yes MANY MANY of them like (or are forced to use) Windows.

It's a completely moot point anyway, and frankly, this level of arguments reminds me of high-school yard disagreements weather my Windows PC is better than your Apple PC, or my Nvidia GPU is better than your ATI GPU, or my Nokia is better than your Ericsson. Just childish.

pe1chl · Tue Feb 06, 2024 10:27 pm

This thinking is just wrong. If you are admin in company (which is bigger than small), you typically administrating dozens ( in my case hundreds ) of devices and it cannot be done via web config effectively. No chance at all.

Not with winbox either. So that is a little irrelevant in this topic.
For that kind of thing you would use the API, or when you like traditions you can use cmdline with some send/expect handler.

Amm0 · Tue Feb 06, 2024 10:41 pm

FWIW, more people use a smartphone, than either Windows or Mac. If effort was going to be made in "easy of use", that belong with smartphone apps IMO.

On the poll's #5 question (...after reading this thread) — it's @pe1chl "sessions as shortcut" which deserves some consideration. That would make session more directly usable.

rushlife · Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:32 pm

Get off your high horse, with your anecdotal "minority" statistics that came our of your rear. What are you, five?
... Just childish.

"He that has a great nose, thinks everybody is speaking of it. !

Thomas Fuller

ccky · Thu Feb 08, 2024 6:41 pm

Yes, only recently and I don't think (oh.. the second question is exactly about that )
I don't know what were they made for originally, but for myself I've stumbled upon three use cases (thus session file "type"):
- window manager based on specific tasks that currently are being fiddled with e.g. /routing/rules + /ip/routes + /routing/table + /ip/firewall/mangle
- window manager based on available display size (so mostly which columns and how wide)
- window manager based on device type/role (router/switch/accesspoint...)
introduce a game "show my your windows and I'll tell you your task" add "task views" with separate setting for "info granularity => columns" and "positions on screen"
I don't know what it's meant to do but will check back after 5. For how it works for me: Task View, Arrangements, TaskMAN
EDIT: surprised that I was not surprised

Susanfed · Mon Feb 12, 2024 2:54 pm

Love this idea!

lexiluna17 · Mon Feb 12, 2024 5:43 pm

Yes, only recently and I don't think (oh.. the second question is exactly about that )

I don't know what were they made for originally, but for myself I've stumbled upon three use cases (thus session file "type"):

window manager based on specific tasks that currently are being fiddled with e.g. /routing/rules + /ip/routes + /routing/table + /ip/firewall/mangle

window manager based on available display size (so mostly which columns and how wide)

window manager based on device type/role (router/switch/accesspoint...)

introduce a game "show my your windows and I'll tell you your task" add "task views" with separate setting for "info granularity => columns" and "positions on screen"

I don't know what it's meant to do but will check back after 5. For how it works for me: Task View, Arrangements, TaskMAN

EDIT: surprised that I was not surprised

thanks for share good informetion.

resca · Mon Feb 12, 2024 6:11 pm

1) Yes, always, to save my preferred layout and re-use it specifying it in the command line.
2) To save and reload the windows layout.
3) Publish the .viw file layout and/or make it readable/editable.
4) No: layout would be better, but this is marginal.
5) I learned a lot of people don't know what they are using!

Deantwo · Tue Feb 13, 2024 12:40 pm

1) Have you ever used Sessions? (default ones are <own> and <none> and you can make more)
2) Describe in a few words, what you think they do
3) How could we supercharge this feature to actually be useful for everyone?
4) Does the name Sessions actually convey what this feature is meant to do?
5) After reading the other posts, if you are surprised to learn something, comment again with what you just learned

I usually use <own>, but on rare occasions when I have to connect to 100 routers to input the same commands/changes, it can be very useful to make a dedicated session with just the needed windows pre-open.
It is the save state of windows on the WinBox dashboard when you connect to a router.
It is useful, but usually I just want the router to look the same as it did last time I was on it, so <own> is just the default usefulness. Maybe a way to set a "default" session for when you connect to a router that doesn't have a session saved already, like a "use <own> if exists, otherwise make copy of session X".
I have always thought the name "sessions" was a bit miscommunicating what it was. Maybe something like "dashboard session" would be more descriptive? A lot of the time when I am connected to a router, I just use the "session" field at the top as an easy way to copy-paste the IP-adresse I connected to.
Nothing I didn't know already.

robtor · Fri Feb 16, 2024 9:20 pm

1) Yes, sometimes
2) Store the opened windows and positions within winbox
3) Maybe provide external session editor ( like the ui editor for webfig) to generate generic sessions (maybe even read-only ones for taking a quick glance at a running ap, e.g. where one can't accidentally move drag or close windows) and an option to launch a session on the connections list; Second suggestion, maybe make a window grid (snappy) for better placing the windows)
4) I think so
5) --

bajodel · Fri Feb 23, 2024 1:37 pm

@normis, are there Mikrotik plans to use all these infos to change/improve Winbox and profiles ?

Fri Feb 23, 2024 1:43 pm

yes, this is why I asked

Amm0 · Sun Mar 03, 2024 6:14 pm

4) Does the name Sessions actually convey what this feature is meant to do?

Just realized The Dude uses the term "panels", which is not a bad term – better than session at least.

While a Dude "panel" is not quite same as winbox "session".... There is one thing you can do in a panel, but not in a winbox "session" is a tiling layout. The Dude has the custom controls to do window splitting...

"That rug really tied the room together."
—Jeffrey "The Dude" Lebowsk

infabo · Sun Mar 03, 2024 7:34 pm

I want tiling layout!

HalfWolf · Tue Mar 05, 2024 8:32 am

Yes, I've used Sessions before. I've created my own custom ones to organize my work and sometimes switch to a clean slate with <none>.

In a nutshell, Sessions seem to be a way to save and switch between different sets of open tabs, making it easier to manage different tasks or projects.

To supercharge Sessions, it would be awesome if we could not only save tabs but also associated settings, like specific extensions, window arrangements, or even background themes. That way, switching between Sessions becomes a complete workspace switch.

The name "Sessions" does give an idea of the feature but might be broad. Maybe something like "Smart Workspaces" or "TabSets" could better convey its functionality.

Currently, nothing surprised me, but I'm intrigued to see what others have learned. If there's a cool tip or trick, I'm all ears![/list]

ThomasG · Wed Mar 13, 2024 5:43 pm

1. No (or <own>), but didn't give a real notice to this field on login page
2. Expected <session> is a established connection and <session> <new> after connect to enable something like tabs for more connections (yes, noticed it doesn't work this way) and that I have to start several instances.
3. Not sure. Maybe I try out the feature "as is" the next time.
4. <session> is correct if the idea is to save the last view (set of windows) for a dedicated connection / device. If the goal is to have a standard view for a task not related to the device there might be better names.
5.I have read already the posts to understand the sessions feature.

Thu Mar 14, 2024 7:44 am

I am praying that New Winbox uses a native toolkit like QT rather than something dirty like Electron.

EmuAGR · Sun Mar 17, 2024 10:34 am

1) Nope.
2) I thought they were just opening new instances of Winbox.
3) Add dark mode. Or allow changing default UI colours.
4) No, similar features are usually called "workspaces" in other programs.
5) After reading the other posts, if you are surprised to learn something, comment again with what you just learned

satman1w · Fri Mar 22, 2024 1:22 pm

Tried to find some description deveral times with no success.
If it was the only thing you have never described what is it for or how to use it, the life would be beautifull

https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:Winbox
try to find any info about it in online manual...

regards

infabo · Fri Mar 22, 2024 2:55 pm

Valid point.

This poll is running over 2 months now and one discovery is: it is not so clear for many users what sessions are and what they are used for. So, plenty of time to describe the session feature in docs?

Not happened. https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/display/ROS/WinBox

boocko · Tue Mar 26, 2024 10:31 am

1) yes, regularly
2) I use it for certain window layouts OR saving the last layout per-device.
3) - Buttons/dropdown to quickly change between some of them without going to Session/Open menu
3) - I would like to have "read only" sessions that cannot be accidentaly saved over with autosave. On the other hand, autosave is great to return to the last layout in a given device.
4) No opinion, got used to it. Perhaps "layout"?

StephanXtrabits · Wed Apr 10, 2024 12:25 pm

1) Yes continuously.
2) It saves my last session to each and every specific device
3) We are storing our sessions actually on onedrive (and each user has it's own sessions folder). So from home (my personal PC), from my laptop when I'm on site and from my desktop at the office I always use and save the same sessions.
It would be even more awesome if I can save these sessions based on the device and not on the IP or mac address I'm connecting to (so yes if you make a mac based connection on a different port it will see it as a different (new) session.
4) Even though some people want to call it something like visual preferences, it is a part of it. For me it's really sessions, basically when I disconnect from a device with my interfaces, bridge and terminal windows open (for example) the next time I reconnect it will open those same windows again (including the tab I was on last) so basically I can continue where I left off. And yes it also saves my layout as in what columns do I want to see and what not.
5) No

pimmie · Sun Apr 14, 2024 5:38 pm

1) Never (at least not on purpose, I guess I used it as it auto loads/saves per device?)
2) Start a new winbox or user session?
3) As far as I now understand, sessions are basically user-defined UI presets? If so, don't use file options like Open/Save but have a dropdown with all listed presets and a clear role for the default/auto-saved preset. Maybe something like Firefox's bookmarks manager that dynamically generates the dropdown menu's and supports multiple levels of nesting.
4) Not at all. Something like Layout Presets or UI Presets would be more clear.
5) I guess I learned what this feature actually is

I am praying that New Winbox uses a native toolkit like QT rather than something dirty like Electron.

I'm only praying for native Linux support (instead of having to use Wine). Maybe something based on Flutter/Dart so Mikrotik can pool their dev resources instead of having 3 different dev teams for the web-ui, winbox and android app.

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