CAPSMAN-How many configurations do I need?

toolongformt · Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:09 pm

In another thread we discuss why my access points don't want to really come up with wireless networks.
In that manner we talk about configurations (as a default for more access points which should get their config from a central point of configuration).
Now I want (need) to work with 2,4 and 5 GHz. When I make a configuration, I only can use one "channel" config. And one channel config contains EITHER 2,4 OR 5 GHz.
So if I want to send out the same wifi network over both channels, do I really have to create them? That multiplies my configurations x2 every time...
And in the end (I did that now, I made a config for "each wifi X each channel", I'll soon end up in 8 (2^3) configurations...
And I'd have to make a multiplicated set of provisioning rules.

Am I on the right track?
Or would it be easier to configure 8 access points as standalone devices? At least they would run after 10 minutes each...

erlinden · Fri Jan 26, 2024 4:35 pm

You need at least 1 configuration. But it depends:

What exact device(s) will you be using as CAP?
What RouterOS version will you be running?
How many SSID's will you use?
Are VLAN's involved?
Do you want to set the frequency per radio manually or do you prefer to have it auto selected?

Fri Jan 26, 2024 4:38 pm

If you do not want to be very specific about the frequency settings, you can simply not set anything in the channel. Then one configuration will suffice for both bands, each AP will run in auto frequency mode. Separate configs for 2 / 5 GHz are needed if you want to exclude certain standards or specify non default channel width etc.

toolongformt · Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:15 pm

You need at least 1 configuration. But it depends:

What exact device(s) will you be using as CAP?
What RouterOS version will you be running?
How many SSID's will you use?
Are VLAN's involved?
Do you want to set the frequency per radio manually or do you prefer to have it auto selected?

very simple:
2 APs, same config, same lan, same vlan, same ip-range, same "everything". Just, that they are connected not on the same port on a switch and they have their own ip address, but the rest is identical.
1 wifi "name" / security on both base frequencies 2,4 and 5 ghz

It shouldn't be that complicated, but it is obviously.
I need at least 2 configurations, because I need 2 channels, because I need two different frequencies.

Without setting anything in channel or frequencies, they do nothing.

I don't understand, but is 7.13.2 so extremely different that all hints and helps don't fit anymore?
You all talk about that stuff as was it that easy, but my experience with 7.13.2 shows, that it takes 1 week to troubleshoot every setting 10 times, until something fits (a little)...
Maybe prior to 7.13.2 it was easy and simple. That may have changed. A new config with that ROS is complex as hell.

toolongformt · Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:16 pm

If you do not want to be very specific about the frequency settings, you can simply not set anything in the channel. Then one configuration will suffice for both bands, each AP will run in auto frequency mode. Separate configs for 2 / 5 GHz are needed if you want to exclude certain standards or specify non default channel width etc.

maybe with older versions of ROS. 7.13.2 needs settings. If at least one thing is missing, the whole thing won't do anything.

erlinden · Fri Jan 26, 2024 6:20 pm

Besides answering (all) (my) questions, are you please willing to share your config of all devices involved?

/export file=anynameyoulike

toolongformt · Fri Jan 26, 2024 9:52 pm

Besides answering (all) (my) questions, are you please willing to share your config of all devices involved?
Code: Select all
/export file=anynameyoulike

toolongformt · Fri Jan 26, 2024 10:00 pm

What exact device(s) will you be using as CAP?

as CAP? what is a CAP?
"The cAP ac is a very capable and powerful wireless access point that looks beautiful"
so, an access point. Sorry, but I don't use an access point, I use XL's as we know by now.
At least, someone said so.

What RouterOS version will you be running?

My router, a CRS112, has 7.13.2 installed and running

How many SSID's will you use?

One SSID called G21 (initially, but my plans are gone. No-one needs those devices now, it's just for me, to improve the learning curve. So if a shorter or longer name makes a difference, I'm flexible)

Are VLAN's involved?

not yet. Was planned... 2 weeks ago

Do you want to set the frequency per radio manually or do you prefer to have it auto selected?

I don't care. I'm happy with auto if it works

erlinden · Sat Jan 27, 2024 12:22 pm

Ah...you are using the old CAPsMAN, that is helpfull information.
Follow this information for the CAPsMAN part (and leave the slave part out):
https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/pages/vi ... einterface

/caps-man security
add name="wpa2psk" authentication-types=wpa2-psk encryption=aes-ccm passphrase=12345678

/caps-man datapath
add bridge=bridge name=datapath1

/caps-man configuration
add name=master-cfg ssid=master security=wpa2psk country=albania datapath=datapath1

/caps-man provisioning
add action=create-dynamic-enabled master-configuration=master-cfg

If you run into problems, reset the CAP (that is indeed the accesspoint) into CAPS mode:

/system reset-configuration caps-mode=yes

If you feel confident enough, you could switch to the new driver if all CAP's are capable (ARM devices), like the cAP ac:
https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/display/ROS/WiFi
It would require installing the new wifi-qcom-ac driver and uninstalling the old wifi driver on the CAP's and configuring wifi (menu item) instead of capsman). But let's first try to get a decent throughput with old CAPsMAN.

toolongformt · Sat Jan 27, 2024 7:52 pm

If you do not want to be very specific about the frequency settings, you can simply not set anything in the channel. Then one configuration will suffice for both bands, each AP will run in auto frequency mode. Separate configs for 2 / 5 GHz are needed if you want to exclude certain standards or specify non default channel width etc.

as soon as I configure something, wifi is not working anymore. I have to leave 98% blank or unconfigured… could use a tp-link instead…

So you want to say, that when I upgrade a system, it doesn‘t upgrade everything… and I have to do the comlicated part myself?

erlinden · Sun Jan 28, 2024 11:38 am

So you want to say, that when I upgrade a system, it doesn‘t upgrade everything… and I have to do the comlicated part myself?

Assuming this remark is for me:
The upgrade will do just the upgrade and "nothing changes". No complications.

When you consider using the wifi-qcom-ac driver (i.e. in a hybrid ac and ax world), you would have to manually change the settings of the previous CAPsMAN settings yourself...the complicated part you probably referring to. Which isn't complicated at all, if you have experience with MikroTik Wifi.

Do you want help?

toolongformt · Sun Jan 28, 2024 11:57 am

So you want to say, that when I upgrade a system, it doesn‘t upgrade everything… and I have to do the comlicated part myself?
Assuming this remark is for me:
The upgrade will do just the upgrade and "nothing changes". No complications.

When you consider using the wifi-qcom-ac driver (i.e. in a hybrid ac and ax world), you would have to manually change the settings of the previous CAPsMAN settings yourself...the complicated part you probably referring to. Which isn't complicated at all, if you have experience with MikroTik Wifi.

Do you want help?

Hi, thanks, I think I‘ll stay with the defaults. Everytime there are options, I think about the manufacturer, why didn‘t he make that…? Mikrotik must have its reasons.
Besides that I don‘t need that stuff anymore, because it took too long to configure, and my friend already bought a HP solution.
I‘m just going to use that stuff for learning, but I don‘t want to start with the non-standards, I‘ve already enough basics to learn; and to sort out where the manuals mislead.
First when I‘m trained enough and know what I am not allowed to configure (if my goal is a running system), I can continue with the extra stuff.
Meanwhile I know what the root cause for this thread was: configuring channels. As soon as I did that, those APs didn‘t do anything. So they only run with an empty configuration. Just security, nothing else, or they stop working. That‘s enough for the current tests. By now I know what the bottleneck in the wifi is… it‘s not the antennas or the ap‘s theirselves, it‘s that crap of CRS (called „Router“ in its name) 112 that cannot perform more then 10 mbit/s without any rules. The last device I bought for such a performance was 2001…
This week I‘ll receive a new crs310. When arrived, I‘ll configure that thing and sell the combination. The 112 will stay here; and with an lte-accesspoint thing from 2020 I‘ll build a new homelab.
Then I will see what I‘m going to learn and if it‘s useful to re-flash something…
Thank you for your offer, I‘ll contact you when I‘ve come so far

. Maybe next week…

infabo · Sun Jan 28, 2024 12:44 pm

you can do more than 10mbit/s in crs112 - See "Switching results"
https://mikrotik.com/product/CRS112-8G- ... %2D8G%2D4S

But as soon you do routing look here:

"Ethernet test results"
https://mikrotik.com/product/CRS112-8G- ... %20results

I don't know if you understand that but in simple words: crs112 is a switch and not a router.

It does not matter what CRS is the abbreviation for. Like Unifi names their devices e.g. Dream Machine. Where is the functionality that came create dreams or improve my personal dreams? you see?

Look at the datasheet. or do you buy devices by looking at pictures only???

infabo · Sun Jan 28, 2024 12:51 pm

And in case you are able to keep focus for a 2min read, you can read here why there are different wifi config menus:

"Note that since RouterOS v7.13 some MikroTik devices can choose between two types of Wireless NPK package, depending on the required features and the device type. More details can be found in the respective documentation sections. "
https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/display/ ... ons.%C2%A0

infabo · Sun Jan 28, 2024 12:53 pm

Out of curiosity: which HP access points (model code) did your friend buy? I am interested as well. And some performance feedback if you can get from him on how they perform and how much area they cover. Thanks

toolongformt · Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:08 pm

Out of curiosity: which HP access points (model code) did your friend buy? I am interested as well. And some performance feedback if you can get from him on how they perform and how much area they cover. Thanks

HP/Aruba InstandOn 22
Gigabit, and the transferrates to internet is the same as what the provider delivers. By now he hasn‘t a „true“ firewall yet.
Maybe it‘s getting a used asa5506, available for 100 euro…

toolongformt · Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:15 pm

you can do more than 10mbit/s in crs112 - See "Switching results"
https://mikrotik.com/product/CRS112-8G- ... %2D8G%2D4S

But as soon you do routing look here:

"Ethernet test results"
https://mikrotik.com/product/CRS112-8G- ... %20results

I don't know if you understand that but in simple words: crs112 is a switch and not a router.

It does not matter what CRS is the abbreviation for. Like Unifi names their devices e.g. Dream Machine. Where is the functionality that came create dreams or improve my personal dreams? you see?

Look at the datasheet. or do you buy devices by looking at pictures only???

And there are also values for routing. And those are not reachable. End of (this) discussion.

Ethernet test results

Ethernet test results

CRS112-8G-4S-IN	QCA8511 1G all port test
Mode	Configuration	1518 byte	512 byte	64 byte
kpps	Mbps	kpps	Mbps	kpps	Mbps
Bridging	none	48.0	582.9	73.5	301.1	78.0	39.9
Bridging	25 bridge filter rules	26.1	317.0	28.6	117.1	29.6	15.2
Routing	none	46.5	564.7	65.7	269.1	71.1	36.4
Routing	25 simple queues	14.5	176.1	16.1	65.9	16.8	8.6
Routing	25 ip filter rules	7.8	94.7	8.0	32.8	8.3	4.2

Ok, if Audi sells me a quattro, I may not expect that all wheels are … ok, I understand, I‘m too exact for this world. But when the name is not suitable, I may believe that the test results are correct.
You know what I mean? In which book is written, what I should believe and what not…?

infabo · Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:18 pm

Funny, had an Aruba InstantOn AP22 for 1 week early 2022 here for testing. Wasnt satisfied and sent it back. What annoyed most: cloud management with hardly any settings available. Reboot for any change and the need for cloud to manage it at all.

toolongformt · Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:22 pm

Funny, had an Aruba InstantOn AP22 for 1 week early 2022 here for testing. Wasnt satisfied and sent it back. What annoyed most: cloud management with hardly any settings available. Reboot for any change and the need for cloud to manage it at all.

1. he has never devices and so he has newer firmware / software
2. the settings he needs seem to be there. He is happy, I don‘t know the devices.
3. cloud for management… hm, do you tell mikrotik what you think about cloud hosted router? they offer such things

infabo · Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:23 pm

Ok, if Audi sells me a quattro, I may not expect that all wheels are

You mean, hahahahah, when VW sells you a car and tells you about the emission values. Then turns out: these cant be reached in reality and are fake???? Never happened?

Or you mean, when you buy a SUV and the datasheet says: 8l/100km. In reality you cant go below 10l no matter how "smart" you drive?

So please stop making stupid comparisons.

infabo · Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:26 pm

3. cloud for management… hm, do you tell mikrotik what you think about cloud hosted router? they offer such things

You dont know what you are talking about. Apple pear comparison.

toolongformt · Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:29 pm

infabo, we should at least separate what we discuss.
1. performance of wifi
2. performance of router

I do find the performance with the ap‘s, that I now can pay and call my own, not bad (for tests I added them to my crs328). It‘s the c-(not-R)-s that doesn‘t awake from its sleeping…
What disappoints me, is the fact that microtik advertises such routing results (even with firewall rules, I have NONE so far on the crs112, also no vlan, nothing,…)…
Just a bridge with hw offload and 2 ap‘s… and that reduces performance to 10-50 mbit? Ok, what did mikrotik test then?

infabo · Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:30 pm

1. he has never devices and so he has newer firmware / software
2. the settings he needs seem to be there. He is happy, I don‘t know the devices.

Performance wise I was satisfied. And I dont know if there are hardware revisions but AP22 is still sold with same specs as 2022.

infabo · Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:33 pm

Just a bridge with hw offload and 2 ap‘s… and that reduces performance to 10-50 mbit? Ok, what did mikrotik test then?

That sound not right. In such a setup without vlan and not firewall rules and just switching, the switch HW offloading should give you wirespeed. As long as ether1 (your wan) is part of the switch and not CPU.

infabo · Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:35 pm

toolongformt · Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:41 pm

Ok, if Audi sells me a quattro, I may not expect that all wheels are
You mean, hahahahah, when VW sells you a car and tells you about the emission values. Then turns out: these cant be reached in reality and are fake???? Never happened?

Or you mean, when you buy a SUV and the datasheet says: 8l/100km. In reality you cant go below 10l no matter how "smart" you drive?

So please stop making stupid comparisons.

the way you try to discuss is silly, you don‘t take the quattro argument, but take some other weird bullshit to justify yourself.
bye.

infabo · Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:42 pm

So in easy words: CRS112 has gigabit ethernet ports. You plug a device in one of the ports, ether1 you plug in your ISP modem and you must be able to reach up to 1gbit/s in direction to internet.

You ISP provides you what bandwidth?

infabo · Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:48 pm

I pick up your quattro argument. Audi Quattro is a MODEL NAME.
VW Golf - where is the gulf stream? VW Fox - where is the fox I should get?

Audi e-tron - why is TRON not included?

jaclaz · Sun Jan 28, 2024 3:28 pm

Audi e-tron - why is TRON not included?

the e- is short for "excluding".

infabo · Sun Jan 28, 2024 6:44 pm

CRS stands for Cloud Router Switch.

OP complains about bad routing performance (we don't know why OP even needs routing at all? and why OP chose a switch and uses it as a router? questions over questions) despite the word router is part of the abbreviation CRS. These evil Latvians...

But what confuses me even more: Where is the

? I bought a

router and nowhere the

! Only a physical device without

.

Further read: viewtopic.php?t=191792

gigabyte091 · Sun Jan 28, 2024 9:13 pm

I think it's time to lock this topic. It seems OP is here just to rant about Mikrotik and mistake he made when purchasing device.

It's simple, you are not satisfied with Mikrotik ? Sell it and buy some other brand which is more suited to your need.

We can rant about naming schemes all year long. I have washing machine with "digital motor". I have background in electronics and electrical engineering. WTF is digital motor ? It's plain induction motor controlled by frequency drive... But they call it digital motor...

Makes no sense but hey, it's called marketing... It's much nicer to have sticker "digital motor" and 10 year warranty on front of the washing machine.

Regarding Aruba, i have one switch and i don't understand that if I use cloud for management I can't access web configuration... Why ??? I need to reset switch to default config and choose web configuration... Makes no sense to me...

Sun Jan 28, 2024 9:34 pm

I think it's time to lock this topic.

Finally something sensible.
Done.

CAPSMAN-How many configurations do I need?

CAPSMAN-How many configurations do I need?

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