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fragtion
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RB600A rebooting problem, ROS downgrade now no license!??

Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:09 pm

Hi there,

A few months ago I purchased an RB600A to replace my old RB433+RB112, and got it up and running with 2 Dbii f50-pro's, an f20-pro, and an R52. First thing to note is that the Dbii cards don't actually fit properly in the RB600A - but I solved this by tying them down in place...
Everything seemed OK, the cards all worked... except that the routerboard would sometimes reset on its own especially if I had a high-rate transfer initiate on one of the cards, or the TXpowers were set too high. I assumed this was a power problem, and indeed moving from a 15V 1A PSU to a 18V 3A PSU along with an upgrade to ROS 4.x, seemed to fix the problem.

Today I planned to expand my site further, with an RB502 and another f50-pro, for another link. I installed the new card, and low and behold, that rebooting problem was back. Once I logged into winbox, the new radio would not respond to scans (no results), and after a few reboots when it finally did respond to scans, if I connected to SSID and started a transfer the router would just reboot again, same thing.
Another thing to note is that a few of my other links RX CCQ are also bad and speeds are erratic, which is not the case if I transfer those cards to my RB433... so I assume something is wrong with the board/power.

So a friend on the Wireless User Group which we're a part of, gave me the following advice:
[20:58] <NightShade> fragtion i had a similar issue with my RB
[21:01] <NightShade> try downgrade to routeros 3.10 and see if you still have the problem

I tried this - downgrading to 3.10 (from 4.11), and when I logged back into my RB600A I was welcomed with the ROS license page saying I'm level 0 license and must upgrade the license. But why would a downgrade cause the license to be deleted? I've downgraded routerboards before without having this problem. I can't upgrade back to 4.11 because now the (lack of a) license doesn't support this, and I have 23 hours left to fix it before the router apparently bricks out completely

I find it unfair to buy a new 4.x license if I had one on the RB600 already. The only reason I downgraded in the first place was because the hardware was giving me endless problems, which really it should never have given anyway? - and I was out of solutions to fix it

So my questions are:
1) What can I possibly do to recover my license and just at least get back on ROS4.11 again?
2) Is there any known cause in the first place, to explain why an RB600A should reboot itself (log says something about watchdog timer), even if its being fed 18V 3A through the DC socket? How much more power do these things need to be stable? More importantly, why design a board that has daughterboard expansion card capability if it cant even be stable WITHOUT that addon? I'm rather confused right now, and hope that please someone can help me out over here

Should I E-mail MikroTik directly instead? Please advise :( ..

Thank you in advance
 
fewi
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Re: RB600A rebooting problem, ROS downgrade now no license!?

Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:09 am

Email support directly for license problems.

The license key style changed between v3 and v4. Generally it is not supported to downgrade below what the device shipped with.
 
fragtion
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Re: RB600A rebooting problem, ROS downgrade now no license!?

Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:29 am

Email support directly for license problems.

The license key style changed between v3 and v4. Generally it is not supported to downgrade below what the device shipped with.
Thanks fewi! I emailed support and key-support. Hopefully they can help me out :) I didn't know you couldn't downgrade beyond the version shipped with the router, I thought the license is always preserved... guess I was wrong about that :S

If anyone else knows anything about the rebooting problem please share. So far I found this: http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php ... 47&start=0 - but there is no applicable solution for me there either ..
 
fragtion
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Re: RB600A rebooting problem, ROS downgrade now no license!?

Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:28 pm

Woohoo! I had bit of an epiphany: "I'm not running the latest ROS v3... it won't let me update to v4, but maybe if I install the latest version of v3 which was out before v4, it will recognize my v4 key", so I installed v3.30 and it worked! At least I've got my license back now, I was stressing my balls off! Now to figure out the power shortage / rebooting stuff...
 
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talo1019
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Re: RB600A rebooting problem, ROS downgrade now no license!?

Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:58 pm

Hi Fragation,
Sometimes some customers experience a reboot b/c they're changing the default settings to manual Tx. This causes the card to operate above the power the card was designed for. The RouterOS doesn't properly display our power settings like the XR5. So what you see is not the actualy power output of our cards. If you see "19dBm" on the routerOS, it is actually transmitting at 27dBm. You have to mentally add "8" to what you see. Any changes to that, will cause the card to draw a bit more power and perhaps cause a reboot of the router.
 
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Re: RB600A rebooting problem, ROS downgrade now no license!?

Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:48 pm

I've been having the same problem with a RB600A and can't get it fixed. I've upgraded, downgraded and nothing happens. Mine reboots every so often and is just driving me crazy.
 
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Re: RB600A rebooting problem - is there a fix ?

Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:57 am

I purchased some RB600A boards and they started rebooting the moment I received them - I just did not know what was going on at the time.

I had to shelf them and use some other non RB600A boards to get my network back up. I am now pulling them out again and my RB600A boards still reboot with this message in the logs:
system error critical - router was rebooted without proper shutdown by watchdog timer

They reboot when no wireless cards are installed.
They reboot under heavy cpu load or no cpu load.
They reboot with every version of Mikrotik OS loaded.
They reboot on every power supply tested (12v up to 48V)
They reboot with power supplies rated at 400 watts.
They reboot even when no ports or cards are connected.

From reviewing the Mikrotik forums I have not found a firmware fix or any working fix.
I suspect the warranty has expired and I have never found a fix on any mikrotik forum.

The company I purchased them from says they are out of warranty now. gerrrrrrrrrr

Is there a fix?

Mikrotik - is there anything I can do with these boards or are they just a bad board that does not work?
 
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janisk
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Re: RB600A rebooting problem, ROS downgrade now no license!?

Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:33 am

things that usually are suggested to the customer that has some weird problem with the board:

make sure you are running latest stable RouterOS (4.11 at the moment of writing)
make sure you have updated bootloader of the routerboard, in case you have routerboard.npk installed see /system routerboard for details, upgrade is done using /system routerboard upgrade command and reboot

If that did not help, do /system reset-configuration (make sure you do not loose valuable configuration you might have on the board, backup/make export first)

If board is still rebooted by watchdog timer, try to disable watchdog and see what happens then, does board realy freezes, load goes to 100% and stays there forever.
 
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TomjNorthIdaho
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Re: RB600A rebooting problem, ROS downgrade now no license!?

Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:27 pm

things that usually are suggested to the customer that has some weird problem with the board:

make sure you are running latest stable RouterOS (4.11 at the moment of writing)
make sure you have updated bootloader of the routerboard, in case you have routerboard.npk installed see /system routerboard for details, upgrade is done using /system routerboard upgrade command and reboot

If that did not help, do /system reset-configuration (make sure you do not loose valuable configuration you might have on the board, backup/make export first)

If board is still rebooted by watchdog timer, try to disable watchdog and see what happens then, does board realy freezes, load goes to 100% and stays there forever.
...are running latest stable RouterOS
YES - 4.11 - been through all the OS versions - and the BIOS is updated also

...updated bootloader
YES

...system reset-configuration
I have reset/cleared the board so many times I can now do it with my eyes closed

...try to disable watchdog and see what happens
it will lock up and I have to then power-cycle it to get it back
...
...does board realy freezes
It appears to totally lock up - no ports respond (when watchdog is disabled)

...load goes to 100% and stays there forever
The reboot problem appears mostly to be independent of CPU load. If I keep winbox open untill the reboot happens I will see a slight CPU increase the moment it reboots - last time it hit 9.
I have one of these RB600A boards installed on a tower - average cpu load is 1% to 2% when it reboots. Average connections is 13 - however if I drive the connection count up to 150 connections - the cpu still averages 2% to 9%.
The only time I can drive the board to 100% and keep it there is when I perform bandwidths tests through the ethernet.

With winbox staying connected untill the RB600A reboots and winbox looses connection - I see the uptime can be anywhere from a 3 minutes to a 24 minutes. Most of the time, I get to about 22 minutes.

I have also tried running the RB600A at the three different CPU speeds it can run at. One RB600A makes no difference in reboot time and the other RB600A appears just slightly more reliable at the slowest CPU speed setting by a few minutes at most.

Any other ideas or things to try?

Question - is there a potential known problem on the RB600A which makes the RB600A reboot?
If so, I suspect there may be on-board power supply problem or firmware/hardware problems.

Out of 1,000+ wireless devices in my WISP network, I have about 90 various Mikrotik RB boards in my system and only two RB600A boards. These are the only random rebooting boards I have encountered.
 
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Re: RB600A rebooting problem, ROS downgrade now no license!?

Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:53 pm

I only had problems with RB600 and the motherboard.. The other boards don't have detectable problems (RB800.. unf.. there were a problem too.. )

I had problems with many RB600 with the motherboard to put more minipci.. but I don't remember problems like this without the motherboard.. Perhaps one time because we are using a bad power supply...
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