Community discussions

MUM Europe 2020
 
Ivanli
just joined
Topic Author
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:10 am

11ac radio?

Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:19 am

When MikroTik will update 11ac radio?Any news?
 
lz1dsb
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 222
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:48 am

Re: 11ac radio?

Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:35 pm

11ac radio is still quite new standard.
For the whole 2012 98% (figurative numbers, I don't remember the exact figure but it was quite high) of the worldwide sales of WiFi equipment were 11n. So we could safely say that the transition towards 11n has finished. I personally don't believe that the transition to 11ac will happen anytime soon... I might be wrong though ;) Maybe after at least couple of years. That's why I don't expect that MT will implement 11ac in the recent future. And the industry still does not know how viable the 11ac market is ;)
 
User avatar
normis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 24317
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 11:04 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Re: 11ac radio?

Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:38 pm

I don't think that 98% is correct. All Apple computers support 802.11ac

MikroTik is working on .ac products for this year.
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
ste
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1815
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:21 pm

Re: 11ac radio?

Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:15 pm

The first chip-vendors start with wave2:

http://www.quantenna.com/

This is where MuMiMO comes into the game which I think is one of the
killerfeatures of .ac.
 
lz1dsb
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 222
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:48 am

Re: 11ac radio?

Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:21 pm

I don't think that 98% is correct. All Apple computers support 802.11ac

MikroTik is working on .ac products for this year.
That's great normis!
We'll appreciate higher speeds.

Regarding the numbers... like I wrote - just figurative. I saw a presentation recently and such high number was cited there. But I still believe that it will take at least couple of years for the 11ac standard to pick up speed. Especially in the consumer market.
 
User avatar
Hammy
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 737
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 5:53 pm
Location: DeKalb, IL
Contact:

Re: 11ac radio?

Sat Feb 15, 2014 4:42 pm

I don't think that 98% is correct. All Apple computers support 802.11ac

MikroTik is working on .ac products for this year.
That's great normis!
We'll appreciate higher speeds.

Regarding the numbers... like I wrote - just figurative. I saw a presentation recently and such high number was cited there. But I still believe that it will take at least couple of years for the 11ac standard to pick up speed. Especially in the consumer market.
That's the beauty of the PtP and PtMP (as opposed to BYOD) environments most of this gear is used in. We don't care what most people have as we're building it all ourselves. 802.11ac in its later revisions will be very important (mu-MIMO for one).
-----
Mike Hammett

The Brothers WISP
 
User avatar
docmarius
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1220
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:04 pm
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Contact:

Re: 11ac radio?

Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:39 pm

But I still believe that it will take at least couple of years for the 11ac standard to pick up speed. Especially in the consumer market.
The consumer market is there, just the providers aren't. Since my local provider started delivering gigabit internet to home at decent prices, everyone suddenly wants .ac. There was no need for it until now.
Torturing CCR1009-7G-1C-1S+, RB450G, RB750GL, RB951G-2HnD, RB960PGS, RB260GSP, OmniTIK 5HnD and NetMetal 922UAGS-5HPacD + R11e-5HnD in my home network.
 
evharten
newbie
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:20 am
Location: Capelle a/d IJssel, The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: 11ac radio?

Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:22 am

But I still believe that it will take at least couple of years for the 11ac standard to pick up speed. Especially in the consumer market.
The consumer market is there, just the providers aren't. Since my local provider started delivering gigabit internet to home at decent prices, everyone suddenly wants .ac. There was no need for it until now.
There is and was definitly an market, how about streaming locally from your nas to your laptop ? goes a lot smoother with 802.11ac , so the provider aint that important there ;)
Also backupping an Mac for instance over AC goes faster ;)
https://www.mikroshop.nl - The Dutch Mikrotik Store!
 
lwy
just joined
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:21 am

Re: 11ac radio?

Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:30 am

802.11ac products is already in the market and year 2014 will be the years for it to pickup sales especially with the installation of many fibre internet access in many homes in many parts of the world now.

TP link (http://www.tp-link.com/en/products/?categoryid=201) is selling full complete wifi products while Compex (www.compex.com.sg) is selling their latest 802.11ac radio now..
 
User avatar
soulflyhigh
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 173
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:20 am

Re: 11ac radio?

Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:56 pm

It seems that something is going on with 6.11rc1 and new wireless package.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
MTCRE, MTCTCE
 
wispwest
Member
Member
Posts: 477
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 3:48 am

Re: 11ac radio?

Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:58 am

It seems that something is going on with 6.11rc1 and new wireless package.
Was that photo-shopped? How come the 6.11 final doesn't show that...
 
User avatar
normis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 24317
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 11:04 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Re: 11ac radio?

Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:01 am

It seems that something is going on with 6.11rc1 and new wireless package.
Was that photo-shopped? How come the 6.11 final doesn't show that...
rc1 versions can contain all sorts of strange things
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
marcin21
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 188
Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 4:50 pm

Re: 11ac radio?

Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:31 pm

Do You mean strange is that we see ac is being worked on?
Or it was kind of april fool's joke we were supposed to encounter to see smile on our faces ;)

Either the way it's always about money, our money. The other maker gear for 5GHz is already on the market. Assuming it would be as reliable as 24GHz model, time is really running out.
Since ar92xx ros does not support extra channel width making this obsolete chip the most effective right now in mtik.
I have to choose new solution for my network and I decided to go with products from another maker.

Is that possible to announce when will 802.11ac be supported by routeros?
 
User avatar
Hammy
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 737
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 5:53 pm
Location: DeKalb, IL
Contact:

Re: 11ac radio?

Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:05 pm

Do You mean strange is that we see ac is being worked on?
Or it was kind of april fool's joke we were supposed to encounter to see smile on our faces ;)

Either the way it's always about money, our money. The other maker gear for 5GHz is already on the market. Assuming it would be as reliable as 24GHz model, time is really running out.
Since ar92xx ros does not support extra channel width making this obsolete chip the most effective right now in mtik.
I have to choose new solution for my network and I decided to go with products from another maker.

Is that possible to announce when will 802.11ac be supported by routeros?
There are no WISP focused AC products out of beta.
-----
Mike Hammett

The Brothers WISP
 
zacar
just joined
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:14 pm

Re: 11ac radio?

Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:15 pm

I would like to know exact date when there is support QCA9882, or you can start to move to another manufacturer's equipment, which is not very much like to, accustomed to mikrotik.
 
ste
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1815
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:21 pm

Re: 11ac radio?

Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:34 pm

I would like to know exact date when there is support QCA9882, or you can start to move to another manufacturer's equipment, which is not very much like to, accustomed to mikrotik.
The only answer you'll get is: "When it's done it's done". I like this policy as it does not mislead with wrong promises as some other vendors do.

Of course they are late with wireless improvements. This is not only with 802.11ac. Using 802.11n there is still room for improvements. It should be possible to move >=100MBit/s in a 20 MHz Channel and >=200MBit/s in a 40MHz channel PTMP with good conditions. Looking at the Traffic peaks of our PTMP-APs we are far from this.

Just throwin in QCA9882 will not do the job.
 
User avatar
Hammy
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 737
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 5:53 pm
Location: DeKalb, IL
Contact:

Re: 11ac radio?

Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:13 pm

There's a laundry list of wireless enhancements that we haven't seen out of Latvia.

Just so that I'm not mistaken, we haven't seen them out of Silicon Valley either. ;-)
-----
Mike Hammett

The Brothers WISP
 
Zorro
Long time Member
Long time Member
Posts: 676
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:43 pm

Re: 11ac radio?

Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:39 pm

Do You mean strange is that we see ac is being worked on?
Or it was kind of april fool's joke we were supposed to encounter to see smile on our faces ;)

Either the way it's always about money, our money. The other maker gear for 5GHz is already on the market. Assuming it would be as reliable as 24GHz model, time is really running out.
Since ar92xx ros does not support extra channel width making this obsolete chip the most effective right now in mtik.
I have to choose new solution for my network and I decided to go with products from another maker.

Is that possible to announce when will 802.11ac be supported by routeros?
There are no WISP focused AC products out of beta.
technically - there wasn't any much of interest among WISP to AC.
so probably topicstarter talks not about carrier-grade sfuff nor something for BH deployment(cause range ;).
 
User avatar
Hammy
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 737
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 5:53 pm
Location: DeKalb, IL
Contact:

Re: 11ac radio?

Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:22 pm

technically - there wasn't any much of interest among WISP to AC.
so probably topicstarter talks not about carrier-grade sfuff nor something for BH deployment(cause range ;).
Sure there is, when there's AC stuff with GPS, I'll be hanging it.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk
-----
Mike Hammett

The Brothers WISP
 
marcin21
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 188
Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 4:50 pm

Re: 11ac radio?

Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:17 pm

As for ptmp scenario I doubt if mikrotik will ever reach level of other maker, but in ptp
I'm eager to see 80mhz-160mhz 16QAM data rates in my network.
If it would work not worse than AR9220 with 25Mhz+25Mhz channel than I wish to know when.
You may leave high hopes for gps sync and other features that will never work as promised but
give me please wider channels. please :)
 
ste
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1815
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:21 pm

Re: 11ac radio?

Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:33 pm

technically - there wasn't any much of interest among WISP to AC.
so probably topicstarter talks not about carrier-grade sfuff nor something for BH deployment(cause range ;).
Sure there is, when there's AC stuff with GPS, I'll be hanging it.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk
Uldis said they work on .ac. I say GPS will not happen with MT. To do this you've to dig deep into the wifi chipset and make changes there. UBNT failed to do it while promising and selling it. MT did not make promises. If you need GPS you've to look elsewhere.

I hope .ac gives a push to the market. At least with short ptp links we'll see great speeds. We'll need good antennas and fast cpus.
 
User avatar
Hammy
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 737
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 5:53 pm
Location: DeKalb, IL
Contact:

Re: 11ac radio?

Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:42 pm

technically - there wasn't any much of interest among WISP to AC.
so probably topicstarter talks not about carrier-grade sfuff nor something for BH deployment(cause range ;).
Sure there is, when there's AC stuff with GPS, I'll be hanging it.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk
Uldis said they work on .ac. I say GPS will not happen with MT. To do this you've to dig deep into the wifi chipset and make changes there. UBNT failed to do it while promising and selling it. MT did not make promises. If you need GPS you've to look elsewhere.

I hope .ac gives a push to the market. At least with short ptp links we'll see great speeds. We'll need good antennas and fast cpus.
GPS on Atheros works for Cambium and Radwin.

MU-MIMO may mitigate the need for GPS... *MAY*.
-----
Mike Hammett

The Brothers WISP
 
ste
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1815
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:21 pm

Re: 11ac radio?

Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:47 pm

[quote="Hammy
GPS on Atheros works for Cambium and Radwin.
[/quote]

Yes. Radwin is high quality but expensive. We use it for some Businesscustomers.
For Residentials it is way to expensive.

The Cambium Atheros Gear is quite new and starts to be usable. Quite promising.
We completed LAB-Tests und ordered some gear for real life tests. The wireless part
seems very good the rest is quite basic esp. compared to ROS.
MU-MIMO may mitigate the need for GPS... *MAY*.
No. (GPS)-Sync always help reduce interference. MU-Mimo would increase the capacity
by sending/receiving to/from multiple cpes at the same time with the same AP.
Both working together would give towers with great capacity.
 
User avatar
Hammy
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 737
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 5:53 pm
Location: DeKalb, IL
Contact:

Re: 11ac radio?

Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:59 pm

Radwin is expensive, but they both (Radwin and ePMP) show that GPS-sync works on AtherOS. You can't compare feature sets of radios because no one other than Mikrotik can have MPLS and BGP on their AP. Even on my Mikrotik APs I utilize them as a basic radio. Divide and conquer, my friend.

I said that Mu-MIMO (implying a degree of beamforming) would mitigate some of the need for GPS as the beams out to the clients are much more narrow than your typical 90 degrees. You interfere with less stuff with a more narrow beam.
-----
Mike Hammett

The Brothers WISP
 
Zorro
Long time Member
Long time Member
Posts: 676
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:43 pm

Re: 11ac radio?

Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:52 pm

well, GPS-sync as well as anything else Navstar-dependant(or on any other US military infrastructure)was out of question/options to use in some places, like Russia, for example.
nor in applications, require decent performance despite obital networks blackout/destruction/malfunction.
so IEEE-1588/1588v2 /PTP had to be driven differently to network and it did in most cases, in fact.
unless tripple-mode sync was supported(Galileo/Navstar/Glonass), plus Chinese, Indian, Brazilian, Arabian and etc emerging alternatives/systems.
mu-MIMO may improve networks performance or may not, but hardly it relevant to GPS usage(but absence of precise time - affect mildly performance of any kind of networking) and generally pointless to talk bout "mu-MIMO" w/o context, because in in different products case(and different vendor vision of it) - its radically different approach and sub-set of improvements, under same title, generally already presented/implemented in incoherent/separated shape/state.
 
User avatar
Hammy
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 737
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 5:53 pm
Location: DeKalb, IL
Contact:

Re: 11ac radio?

Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:09 pm

I forgot about SyncE...
-----
Mike Hammett

The Brothers WISP
 
marcin21
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 188
Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 4:50 pm

Re: 11ac radio?

Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:57 pm

Guys! I'm not expecting super extra features from equipment worth a few hundred $. I don't care about sync mu-mimo etc, I need plain wider channels 80-160mhz with QAM16 resilient modulation to achieve dozens or a few hundreds more mbps on ptp links.
I don't expect to have all the 802.11ac features right now, just wider channels.
btw. I paid a lot $ yesterday for 5 complete Radwin links, and that is my concern.
And thinking about malfunction of GPS/glonass/galileo whatever is a kind of theoretical and never to fulfill expectations. and even if it would become truth I doubt if our not syncronised link would be biggest problem of modern world around us. I would rather be afraid of falling planes, enormous traffic jam, crashes etc.

And YES there are WISP products using 802.11ac already deployed and tested in EU. so what is the problem ?
 
ste
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1815
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:21 pm

Re: 11ac radio?

Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:45 pm

Guys! I'm not expecting super extra features from equipment worth a few hundred $. I don't care about sync mu-mimo etc, I need plain wider channels 80-160mhz with QAM16 resilient modulation to achieve dozens or a few hundreds more mbps on ptp links.
I don't expect to have all the 802.11ac features right now, just wider channels.
btw. I paid a lot $ yesterday for 5 complete Radwin links, and that is my concern.
And thinking about malfunction of GPS/glonass/galileo whatever is a kind of theoretical and never to fulfill expectations. and even if it would become truth I doubt if our not syncronised link would be biggest problem of modern world around us. I would rather be afraid of falling planes, enormous traffic jam, crashes etc.

And YES there are WISP products using 802.11ac already deployed and tested in EU. so what is the problem ?
So you did not run into interference problems? I see this with our unsynced radwin links too. Using 160mhz channels the spectrum is eaten at once. Doing this unsynced you need great antennas a lot of distance at the tower and shielding.
Gps sync works for all carriers around the world. Without sync lte would not work.

You still buy radwin links? We replace them with licensed links as they get radar detect and bad quality messages as spectrum gets filled up.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 114 guests