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normis
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hAP lite

Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:53 am

We are happy to announce our new low cost home AP, the hAP lite:
http://routerboard.com/RB941-2nD

Recommended list price is $21.95
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joegoldman
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Re: hAP lite

Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:44 am

How does this differ much from the 951-2n? Is it meant to be direct replacement of it or do they tackle 2 different needs?
 
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normis
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Re: hAP lite

Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:52 am

Has one less Ethernet port, but two Wireless chains instead of One. It is also cheaper and has faster CPU.
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Re: hAP lite

Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:10 pm

Has one less Ethernet port, but two Wireless chains instead of One. It is also cheaper.
Also seems to have a more powerful CPU, but no PoE in support.
The product picture shows ether1 marked as "Internet", while others are marked as "LAN". Is the first port completely independent, or can be put into the same switch group the other ports are in?
 
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NathanA
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Re: hAP lite

Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:04 pm

The product picture shows ether1 marked as "Internet", while others are marked as "LAN". Is the first port completely independent, or can be put into the same switch group the other ports are in?
I noticed that, too, but the RB750 and 751 also have that very same restriction (and maybe the 951-2n as well; I don't know because I haven't played with one), and if it is running full RouterOS (and I have no reason to believe it isn't), there is no reason why you could not bridge ether1 and ether2 together.

I'm more curious behind the design decision to use a Micro-USB connector as the power port instead of a traditional barrel connector. I don't have anything against it, but it just seems a little weird if the port is only for power-in and isn't going to serve in any other capacity. Is it because restricting it to 5V (vs. the generously wide input range that most RouterBoards are famous for) made the power regulation side easier to design and cheaper to manufacture, and since USB has standardized on +5V, using Micro-USB ensures that nobody will plug a power supply with the wrong voltage in and cause damage? (Actually, when I stop to think about it, if that's the reason, that's kind of genius...)

Any word on NAND storage? Is it going to be like a normal RouterBoard with somewhere between 32-64MiB minimum, or is it going to be more like an mAP in that respect, with the same kind of software update procedure as an mAP?

-- Nathan
Last edited by NathanA on Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: hAP lite

Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:05 pm

Looks awesome. If only it had POE. Cant use it without that unfortunately.
 
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normis
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Re: hAP lite

Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:10 pm

Any word on NAND storage? Is it going to be like a normal RouterBoard with somewhere between 32-64MiB minimum, or is it going to be more like an mAP in that respect, with the same kind of software update procedure as an mAP?

-- Nathan
yes, it is a SMIPS
total-hdd-space: 16.0MiB
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Re: hAP lite

Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:51 pm

It looks promising, but a bit low on wireless power, very good price/feature ratio anyway.
Isn't it time to have all ethernet ports on gigabit speed? What could be the cost of it? Nowadays all laptops and desktops, or network HDD cases ship with gigabit ethernet.
I would also like to see a 5GHz product, or even better both bands on same device, because all mobile platforms support 5GHz.

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marrold
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Re: hAP lite

Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:25 pm

It's always nice to see new products.

So, when's the hAP PRO announcement?

:)
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honzam
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Re: hAP lite

Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:58 pm

It is your secret rb941 (in another topic) :)
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Re: hAP lite

Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:27 pm

Ok. It is cheap.

But having only 32MB of ram?? Now, when wee see that it is very limiting for running v6.x and expecting that v7.x will be again more requesting? Why?
Powering by unreliable small tiny micro usb connector? Why?
No POE in? Why?
Not possible to use wide range of power adapters like for other devices? Why?

This is not the thing I would like to see to be announced. From technical point of view I consider it to be big step back.

Hope you will sell milions of pieces and get at least 50% of list price as your profit to be able to produce devices that would help us to build networks more effectively.
 
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Re: hAP lite

Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:09 pm

Ok. It is cheap.

But having only 32MB of ram?? Now, when wee see that it is very limiting for running v6.x and expecting that v7.x will be again more requesting? Why?
Powering by unreliable small tiny micro usb connector? Why?
No POE in? Why?
Not possible to use wide range of power adapters like for other devices? Why?

This is not the thing I would like to see to be announced. From technical point of view I consider it to be big step back.

Hope you will sell milions of pieces and get at least 50% of list price as your profit to be able to produce devices that would help us to build networks more effectively.
You still have 951Ui and 951G for more power. It is a home device, not everybody is looking for complex configurations and 50Mbps at home, so I guess there is still market for such low end products.
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Re: hAP lite

Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:17 pm

Yes, I agree, there is a market for such devices. Asus, tp-link, d-link and others are selling on this market very well. So why not mikrotik? I have nothing against. But I am looking forward to other devices - able to nat with some firewall rules at gigabit speed and having two radios - one ac and second 2hnd.

I already told it - I wish mikrotik will make a heap of money on it. But to be honest, we all know that even there is quickset, the ros operated devices are not easily adoptable by home users knowing nothing about networking...

And the weak powering is not good even for home users. The tiny connector is easily to be broken and mobile/tablet chargers that will be used as power adapter for it can be burned very easily.
 
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Re: hAP lite

Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:34 pm

Interesting product for its price, want one at home, waiting it to arrive in Russia.
Why all these indicators (power, activity) are on the back side?
 
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Re: hAP lite

Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:24 am

هل يعمل كا اكسس بوينت عادي
 
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Re: hAP lite

Thu Feb 19, 2015 3:23 am

Great Product !

For that price, and adventages who offer is much better then Tp-Link, ASUS, etc low end products.. When will be available to buy Normis? Can you post more images from product (back, side, etc..)
 
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Re: hAP lite

Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:33 am

The one thing that we are forgetting is that ~80% of world doesn't have more than few Mbps connection at home. So with this device you can have firewall\queue\VPN setup and still hitting those speeds with no problems (judging from performance table on bottom of routerboard page).

USB power is nice solution, this device is now similar to keyboard,mouse,web camera - you just keep it plugged in USB port of your PC and it will work.

P.S. i love the short marketing name concept - "hAP" is much easier to use in conversation than "951"
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Re: hAP lite

Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:40 pm

Very nice product with a low cost.

When will be available to buy ?
 
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Re: hAP lite

Thu Feb 19, 2015 3:11 pm

Nice product for the price! Now I am curious what is coming next! I like this hAP line already ;)

A gigabit PoE-in version would even be better, as others suggested already.
On to a hAP with .ac ;-)
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andriys
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Re: hAP lite

Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:01 pm

Now I am curious what is coming next! I like this hAP line already ;)

A gigabit PoE-in version would even be better, as others suggested already.
On to a hAP with .ac ;-)
I'd like to see dual-band cAP some-when in the near future.
 
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Re: hAP lite

Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:22 am

I'd like to see dual-band cAP some-when in the near future.
me too! :D
 
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Re: hAP lite

Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:58 pm

Now how about a "Pro" with at least 802.11ac 2x2:2 on 5ghz and 2.4ghz 802.11n + gigabit ethernet.

Serious lack of decent 802.11ac ap's out there, it's mostly either consumer crap or expensive enterprise stuff.
 
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Re: hAP lite

Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:29 am

I don't think that will ever be a dual band or gigabit version of this router because it has an weaker cpu than the RB951. So it will a 951 like or even better, with hardware NAT and faster cpu. It is the normal next step.
 
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Re: hAP lite

Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:46 pm

Is it really slower than 951-2n in terms of cpu power (nat & routing)? How much real throughput should be expected with regular soho usage?
 
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Re: hAP lite

Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:21 pm

Read the pdf. It is not very hard.
 
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Re: hAP lite

Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:29 pm

Read the pdf. It is not very hard.
I did. But ros versions are different and my question was about real life results and not the synthetic test results. It's hardly believable that 650mhz is slower than 400mhz. Frequency is more than 50% higher.
 
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honzam
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Re: hAP lite

Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:00 pm

It is also cheaper and has faster CPU.
Maybe more Mhz but in performance table is CPU (650Mhz) worse than rb950-2n (400Mhz)
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payday
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Re: hAP lite

Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:33 pm

@Normis: Why this device is not present in FCC list? Have you changed your grantee code from TV7 to something different?
 
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normis
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Re: hAP lite

Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:23 am

@Normis: Why this device is not present in FCC list? Have you changed your grantee code from TV7 to something different?
FCC will be ready this week
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normis
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Re: hAP lite

Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:24 am

It is also cheaper and has faster CPU.
Maybe more Mhz but in performance table is CPU (650Mhz) worse than rb950-2n (400Mhz)
Is it really slower than 951-2n in terms of cpu power (nat & routing)? How much real throughput should be expected with regular soho usage?
notice that the hAP has 4 ports, but the 951 has 5 ports. this is why the hAP can only achieve 400Mbit.

also there is a mistake in the table, during conversion from packets to bits. we will fix it today
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Re: hAP lite

Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:10 pm

notice that the hAP has 4 ports, but the 951 has 5 ports. this is why the hAP can only achieve 400Mbit.

also there is a mistake in the table, during conversion from packets to bits. we will fix it today
I was talking about 64byte packet performance. 951-2n got higher rates.
 
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Re: hAP lite

Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:02 pm

will be the next version hAP with USB port ?
 
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Re: hAP lite

Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:37 am

Can i use that dvice for connection to one WiFi and Share it by another one WiFi net?
Or does have miktorik any device with 2 Wireless interfaces?
 
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honzam
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Re: hAP lite

Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:04 pm

notice that the hAP has 4 ports, but the 951 has 5 ports. this is why the hAP can only achieve 400Mbit.
also there is a mistake in the table, during conversion from packets to bits. we will fix it today
Is this mistake fixed today? Rb951-2n is still more powerfull in small packet
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Re: hAP lite

Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:41 pm

Sadly no 5g WiFi, RAM 32M was a very small, at least 64M.
 
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normis
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Re: hAP lite

Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:43 pm

Sadly no 5g WiFi, RAM 32M was a very small, at least 64M.
more advanced units are planned. the hAP lite is "lite" just as the name indicates :)
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Re: hAP lite

Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:07 pm

Consideration can be given a mt7621 scheme, performance is much higher. The cost should not where to go.
 
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Re: hAP lite

Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:29 pm

One might add photos HAP looks like from the inside? Plate?
sorry for my english
 
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Re: hAP lite

Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:51 pm

@Normis: Can I ask you one (stupid :)) question? What was the reason for introducing another architecture (SMIPS)? Is it better or cheaper then MIPSBE? Or maybe more powerful? Better choice of SoCs?
 
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Re: hAP lite

Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:32 pm

One might add photos HAP looks like from the inside? Plate?
sorry for my english
me too. i really would like to see it inside. waiting for pics. let's see how moddable it is :)
@Normis: Can I ask you one (stupid :)) question? What was the reason for introducing another architecture (SMIPS)? Is it better or cheaper then MIPSBE? Or maybe more powerful? Better choice of SoCs?
i'm not normis, but maybe qualcomm has changed the cpu a little bit after buy atheros.

EDIT: normis, is SMIPS = SmartMIPS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIPS_instr ... #SmartMIPS ???
 
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Re: hAP lite

Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:13 pm

AFAIK, SMIPS is Simple MIPS from MIT, a subset of MIPS II

This might explain why it is less performing at more MHz
 
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normis
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Re: hAP lite

Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:22 am

no, SMIPS is "small mips". there is too little RAM or NAND space to put many packages, so this RouterOS version is optimized for these smaller systems. it allows to upgrade the unit even if there is little storage space, it puts the packages in RAM.
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Re: hAP lite

Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:30 am

no, SMIPS is "small mips". there is too little RAM or NAND space to put many packages, so this RouterOS version is optimized for these smaller systems. it allows to upgrade the unit even if there is little storage space, it puts the packages in RAM.
That sounds pretty nifty.

Is this similar to how initrd/initramfs work, with RouterOS loaded in to RAM and run from there ?
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normis
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Re: hAP lite

Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:35 am

AFAIK, SMIPS is Simple MIPS from MIT, a subset of MIPS II

This might explain why it is less performing at more MHz
it is not performing "less", it is faster.
test contains mistake that will be fixed.
here, look at the values and compare, anything suspicious?

173,6kpps=88,9Mbps RB951-2nD
146kpps=96,2Mbps RB951-2n
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Re: hAP lite

Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:02 am

I think you should use a different name then. SMIPS is already taken for an architecture.
 
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Re: hAP lite

Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:12 pm

AFAIK, SMIPS is Simple MIPS from MIT, a subset of MIPS II

This might explain why it is less performing at more MHz
it is not performing "less", it is faster.
test contains mistake that will be fixed.
here, look at the values and compare, anything suspicious?

173,6kpps=88,9Mbps RB951-2nD
146kpps=96,2Mbps RB951-2n
It seems there are mistakes at some product pages. Take a look at rb2011uais and rb850.
 
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Re: hAP lite

Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:30 pm

Have anyone pictures of the inside?
 
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Re: hAP lite

Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:41 pm

Consideration can be given a mt7621 scheme, performance is much higher. The cost should not where to go.
I agree.
 
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CyB3RMX
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Re: hAP lite

Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:30 am

I found this pretty useful for residential use, seems a very reliable substitute for the WR841ND with OpenWRT i use now on residential clients.
When will be available, i really want a couple to test its performance.

Keep up the good job Mikrotik ;)
Have a great day!
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Re: hAP lite

Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:37 am

i feel this obsoleted the RB750, why would anyone chose that now? or the Map unless you need POE
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